I'd pay money to see this
Submitted by gjohnsit on Sun, 11/27/2016 - 1:24pm
Edward Snowden won a potentially critical court case recently.
A top German appeals court has ruled that the government must “establish preconditions” for US whistleblower Edward Snowden to come to Berlin, in order for him to testify before a parliamentary committee investigating NSA surveillance in Germany.
The Federal Court of Justice (BGH) ruling, made on November 11 but only announced on Monday, came after the Greens and the Left Party requested that the former National Security Agency (NSA) contractor be questioned by German MPs.
Just imagine the optics of Snowden testifying - in person - in the German Parliament.
Just imagine the angry tweets from President Trump.
I think it would be hilarious.
The Greens and Left Party are determined to press the issue.
From now on the blockers will find it harder to talk their way out with flimsy arguments. With this decision the Federal Court of Justice in Karlsruhe has made sure a vote has to be retaken. And should at least a quarter of the deputies in the NSA Parliamentary Commission vote in favor of the application, then the government will definitely be under intense pressure. It would then have the duty of creating conditions for Snowden to give testimony in Berlin. The most important condition would be absolute protection from extradition to the USA.
Edward Snowden may be a "traitor" at home, but he's a rock star in Germany.
The new poll results show that about two-thirds of American adults have heard, read or seen at least a small amount of information about Snowden. Awareness was much higher - at 95 percent - in Germany, whose chancellor’s phone was famously tapped by the NSA.
....
In Germany and Italy, 84 percent of adults familiar with Snowden view him positively. The figure is about 80 percent in France, the Netherlands and Spain.
Snowden's familiarity and favorability numbers in Germany rank up there with Beyonce and Rolling Stones.
Of course there is one more thing that the German politicians are afraid of.
The German government meanwhile fears it will have to grant Snowden asylum once he enters the country, triggering diplomatic problems with Washington, Die Zeit reported.
This is a possibility because of Obama's determination to use the Espionage Act against whistleblowers like Snowden.
Germany's laws recognize the fundamental unfairness of that law.
Comments
Wow
That's great, great news, thanks for posting it. I only would gently quibble with your title--not because I think you wouldn't pay to see it, only because you have already paid (as has everyone else).
It makes "regaining control of The Narrative" even more critical. The American people only found out about Snowden at all because of all that (cough) Fake Media...
Only disappointment
Snowden hasn't YET gotten the Nobel Prize.
Don't know who is organizing the campaign for him, it's quite big job, but well worth it!
Thank you, forever, Edward Snowden. And the brave people who helped you accomplish your goal.
Anyone know of any campaigns to help him now?
Nobel Prize
Well, he certainly has done more to deserve it than Obama, who had done Nothing to deserve his ill-considered "award."
Hoping for the loudest explosion since Krakatoa!
Nobel Peace prize for our bombing President
Cruel joke, Stockholm?
Sun, 11/27/2016 - 10:53pm —
Sun, 11/27/2016 - 10:53pm — josb
Wasn't that back when he was trying to get everyone else to dispose of their nuclear weaponry and before he started threatening other countries with nukings? Was that when Secretary of State Clinton was making all of that money off deals like selling 'so-scary Putin' 20% of America's already-inadequate-for-power-plant-supplies strategic uranium resources?
But, of course:
https://theintercept.com/2016/02/23/obamas-new-rationale-for-1-trillion-...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
would Trump be angry? I'm not sure
Obama would, definitely. Obama would want to force down all planes headed to Germany on the off chance that Snowden might be on one of them.
I can see Trump, on the other hand, viewing Snowden as a poke in Obama's eye and therefore thinking it's fine. Then Trump can look like he's opposed to all of this surveillance while he continues it.
Trump's CIA head wants Snowden dead
Trump would not be happy. I'm sure of it.
I don't know if I understand you correctly, but
it looks as if you say it would be a case of Schadenfreude by Trump to give Obama a poke in his eyes. On the other hand Obama is already a "by-gonner", so this kind of Schadenfreude revenge to stick it to Obama is not really efficient anymore. Would it help Trump to poke something into Clinton's eyes? If Trump is such a dealer-wheeler-rolo-coaster narcicist to need such Schadenfreude kicks into persons that have no power anymore in a couple of weeks, I hope some Europeans will realize it and the opposition against Trump will only increase over in Germany. If the Breitbart folks set up shop in Germany it shows that they really need it, because they understand that Trump is "unwelcome". So, the divisions in Germany caused by Trumps "ambassadors of US psychological manipulations" will be horrible. It will cause havoc in Germany and the result will be that the US has all the reason to point against the Germans. I am sure we Germans will be again the "over again and again bad guys".
Merkel is not stupid. She knows what ideological propaganda is, she lived under it. She won't fall for deal making and Schadenfreude kicks. This is Trump's cabinet and team of advisors that is responsible for it. Nobody cares anymore what Obama or Clinton did in a couple of weeks. That's history. By-gone. I really appreciate all the analysis of what really happened under Clinton, Bush and Obama, but it's already over.
Really, I foresee that with horrors.
https://www.euronews.com/live
I hope all European countries stand together for what's right
And resist any bullying by Trump. I only wish that were the case with W. before the Iraq invasion.
Beware the bullshit factories.
... Nobody cares anymore what
Unfortunately, that's the standard, and the schedule set by TPTB and carried out so far by the before-mentioned and others continues...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Be Sure!
Donald Trump on Edward Snowden: Kill the ‘traitor’ The Washington Times - Tuesday, July 2, 2013
Donald Trump About Edward Snowden: ‘There Is Still A Thing Called Execution’ Huffington Post 06/24/2013 09:19 am ET | Updated Jun 24, 2013
There is much more support for the idea that Snowden isn't safe from Trump, but I think the point is made.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
Snowden deserves more breaks
I hope one day both he and Assange can live a free and open life. Thanks for the report!
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Snowden is a hero.
I can just imagine him living large in that gorgeous country.
I will cancel my court appearances, close my office, and watch every second of his testimony.
Instead of worrying about what Obama thinks, Obama should be worrying about the NSA tapping Merkel's phone.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
He cannot get on a plane!
At least not one that leaves Russia. He will be assassinated.
Remember the whole Greenwald and/or husband/partner and the foreign ambassador's plane incident? Or, am I confusing Snowden and Assange stories?
At any rate, his life will be in danger. He can't leave Russia!
Consider the advantage for Putin
The potential of making a diplomatic split between U.S. and Germany would be a coup.
Plus offloading the "Snowden problem" to a NATO nation.
Plus the PR potential.
Putin would fly Snowden to Berlin personally.
Hell, I would do it
if he doesn't.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
I agree.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Maybe not
if enough good people got on the same plane!
Think you might be confusing it with recent threats against Assange tho.
There aren't enough "good People"
Ever check into Operation Northwoods? The US was so desperate to go to war against Castro's Cuba that many plans were developed as triggers. Some of these triggers included false flag attacks against US citizens to be blamed on Castro's forces to get the people behind the war.
This "Damn the collateral Damage to civilians, full steam ahead" attitude still lives in the American military. They would kill us all if it achieved a goal they have set for themselves.
Catching/killing Snowden is one such goal.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
Yes some of those actions involved flying passenger into
buildings, using bombs at public events and a few other activities we have seen happen in this country.
Imagine the type of personality one would have to have to not only think those things up but be willing to go through with it.
Or continue to be okay with the amount of deaths and misery inflicted on innocent civilians so that corporations who they are beholden to can take those countries resources.
I really can't imagine myself making that decision to take innocent lives.
He can't board a plane without a passport
so he would take alternative transportation. I think he can leave Russia and risk his life.
To thine own self be true.
I've wondered about that
It's not that he doesn't have a passport, but that it's been "cancelled" by Obama's government. I would think that countries would still be free to recognize the document if they chose to. Consider what we would have done regarding Communist documents during the cold war... no visa required, and we didn't care if your papers had expired.
Most states won't want to cross the US over this, but some probably would.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
I agree Deja
I don't believe the dark forces who operate under the radar in this world of cyber horrors will allow him to survive a free man. I think cosmetic surgery and identity change are his only hope to survive the ill will of our unchecked "security forces" for any period of time
This just hasn't been Obambi's month. Between having ZERO
positive affect on influencing the 'election' in Clinton's favour to maybe having to watch the NSA's dirty laundry come out in the proverbial wash, he seems to have lost his 'touch' for smoothing his scandals over. A bit Too late BUT this would be much much more desirable than never.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
When it comes to spies, we DO have a double standard, don't
we?
I like these
German version of the Hope Poster:
Fitting, since the artist who did the Obama poster, in
essence, backed away from it, even though it had made him famous. (And also got him sued for copyright infringement and charged with criminal contempt for destroying evidence in the lawsuit, but that's another story).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_%22Hope%22_poster
Yes, whistleblowers, through channels or not, do seem to be one of our few hopes, if we have any hope at all. Perhaps that is why modern America treats them so very harshly, while the colonies would have lionized them. Our so-called representatives have totally forgotten whom they are supposed to represent and who owns the government, namely, taxpayers and citizens.
He tried to interfere in a foreign election, too.
Just like Putin.
He had ZERO negative affect on influencing the 'voting' against Brexit.
Not as easy as it used to be to catch the people and screw them. He must be getting old. Or, Putin is just better at it.
I wonder if German courts have a courtroom camera protocol?
If they do and they allow this to be recorded, then we may get a chance to see it. That would be great.
Yep, Obama is going to be steamed. Put him in a crab boil. Don't forget the Old Bay! I'd pay to see that too! I can't remember who in here said it other day -- it bears repeating. "Obama promised us transparency. Assange gave it to us." Naturally, Snowden should be included as well.
Who cares if it causes diplomatic tensions between the U.S. and Germany? Trump will play nicey nice. He owes Deutsch Bank half a billion Somalians or so.
Thanks gjohn
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
For others who also didn't read this wonderful quote:
"Obama promised us transparency. Assange gave it to us."
That should be on the banners we hold when he is released.
What a celebration - Snowden and Assange free.
Grateful the President-elect prefers detente with Russia, maybe we will get to see this.
I've got the meme made!
That's awesome! n/t
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
You will be damned as a racist, but I LOLed
at Old Bay. Just sayin'. And no, not on c99p. Will you be damned.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
What?
I cannot see how referring to "Old Bay" seasoning is racist. I'm at a loss and chuckling at the absurdity of it. Everyone has a tin of Old Bay in their cupboard even if it is 30 years old.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
I was referring to the boiling of a Prez
And my Old Bay may indeed be 30 y/o, but I have made fresh, at home. I like making spice mixes.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
OH.. ok.
Well, racism had nothing to do with my method of expressing my anger towards him.
He is half Caucasian. How does that fit in? Never mind, I don't want to know.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
I din't mean to call you racist, it just came out wrong
I think we talked past each other, whoops.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
No worries
I wasn't offended. Merely befuddled.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
Sorry sojourns
but what is "Old Bay"?... hoping I'll not ask you to commit Hari cari (sp?) by explaining to a naive Yankee?
Hadda look it up, too.
Crab seasoning comprised of about a dozen spices and flavors. Mfg'd around Chesapeake Bay. Mainly east and gulf coast thing.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
Works for shrimp, too
if you like them spicy. I have a separate blend of pickling spices for shrimp. Marinate and serve cold. You had not heard of Old Bay? I think there is a 50 /o can at my mother's house, currently unoccupied. In Lou, KY. And she is a Hoosier, seafood was never her thang. But my father grew up in NJ. On the Delaware River. He never learned to swim. But he sailed the Delaware. At least in myth.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Old Bay
goes into more than crab boil or seasoning shrimp. It is a mainstay in our house.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Like my Granny said,
"If'n ya wanted a cup of cream and sugar, why'd ya ask for coffee".
(ducks)
I get it. But, I'm not much of a gourmand. Food to me is just a means to get to the next day. Hamburger over steak, hot dogs over pork chops, nuggets over whole fried.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
I use it to make
Seitan (wheat) "crab" cakes.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.
hell yeah
I would so pay money to see this. And the walls come tumbling down.
Stop Climate Change Silence - Start the Conversation
Hot Air Website, Twitter, Facebook
Trump is a problem.
Putin would never give Snowden to Obama, but he would Trump. Snowden needs to get out of Russia.
Assange is likely to get a free get out of jail card from Trump. No doubt WikiLeaks helped Trump.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Oh, shit.
Great for Assange. Snowden, not so much. I hadn't even thought of that.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Over at the GOS
Some of the assholes there are saying that he's a violent rapist.
The women who the prosecutor said that he raped dropped the charges against him, and it was the pressure from the US government that made her reinstate the charges.
Assange hasn't put anyone's life in danger, but our government has killed millions.
Now that is irony and hypocrisy.
It's the lunatic "feminist" fringe in cahoots
with The Establishment. Makes you wonder just how much of their rhetoric is PsyOps to discredit feminism.
As to Assange, sleeping consensually with two women but not telling either one about the other isn't rape - it's being, in a good old-fashioned word, a cad. Unethical, possibly immoral by some lights, but not illegal in most sane jurisdictions.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
I read somewhere years ago that it
was about whether he used a condom or not.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Me too, on the cusp. See below n/t
Sun, 11/27/2016 - 7:24pm — on
Sun, 11/27/2016 - 7:24pm — on the cusp
I seem to recall something about a condom that broke?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
I had heard they were both sleeping
And that their main concern was that he didn't use a condom, so they wanted an HIV test, but that he refused. Prior sex had been consensual, but not when they were awakened by him having sex with them.
Of course I think this was from 60 Minutes, so I don't know how much of it is true, if any of it.
I read that it was this way:
1. Issue was use of condom. She said Assange tore the condom for some reason. But she threw a party for Assange next night, and allowed him to stay there with her for a week longer.
2. Problem was supposedly trying to have sex while the second woman was sleeping.
There are many problems with this set of events- first off W#! who set up whole thing may have CIA link. Collaboration of accusers. No physical evidence. etc., etc.
My impression is that if this were a straight case, it would never come close to courtroom. check it.
Condom was found to have broken "naturally"
that is, failed under normal usage, the way they sometimes do (this is why they used to tell you to double up on contraceptive protections, something you don't hear much about any more).
As for the rest of it, it's "Swedish telegraph" (information distorted more with each repetition, until by the time it gets to you, it may have little resemblance to what it started out as).
"Cad" is a reasonable assumption, also possibly "oaf" and "dumbass". But none of those are chargeable unless someone is distorting information.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
The charges against him in Sweden do not include force.
They met. They had consensual sex. He went away. He came back. He wanted more. She did not.
I don't know if he became obnoxious or not, but there was never any charge of violence or force.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
the "initiated sex while woman asleep" charge
has an implicit lack of consent which would make it rape. I believe that the second woman said she was half asleep and submitted. Don't know if she has stuck to this unprovable claim.
Do know that there was a request for Assange to undergo test for STD's, which he was reluctant to do. There was collusion between the two women. etc., etc.
Maybe.
I think Putin kind of enjoys the delicious irony of having Snowden there, but you're probably right.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Where in the world does this come from?
Is this written down somewhere?
Russia is one of a growing number of nations that consider extraditing anyone to the US to be a barbaric act — against all common human decency.
Russia has many good reasons not to extradite a political prisoner to the US, particularly one seeking assylum. Did you think Putin and Trump were friends or even knew each other? Or was that a reported story?
What Motivation Does Russia Have to Extradite Snowden to the U.S.?
Russia does not have an extradition treaty with the US. But, the political sands are always shifting. I suppose tomorrow's Russia could suddenly become utterly depraved and accommodate the US. A depressing thought.
Hope you are right.
It just seems that Putin might be willing to work with Trump - snub to Obama, and I don't know what else Trump might give him. I just would hate to see Snowden end up next to Manning.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
As I recall, Putin has said
that he desires an extradition treaty with the US, but the US has refused to sign one. And that this is the only reason he has not extradited Snowden. If that's true, Snowden's status could be put in jeopardy by Trump signing the treaty Putin wants.
native
It could be a problem for Snowden.
The Russia's goal in seeking an extradition treaty with the US is not about the friendly swapping of miscreants.
Russia wants the US to stop kidnapping vacationing Russians in certain foreign nations and spiriting them off to US prisons. Now, Russia has to put out travel advisories telling the Russian people if they ever got so much as a parking ticket in the US, don't vacation in a US poodle nation. "We can't get you out again. We can't even find you."
Yes. And I bet there are
a few wealthy Russian kleptocrats living in the US that Putin would like to get his hands on too.
native
Forget Trump;
What will Obama's reaction be?
Forget Obama--a has-been who has never-been
I'm very worried about Ed Snowden.
I hope he finds a safe, permanent home as soon as possible.
Manning needs to be pardoned. Now!
I'm so disgusted with Obama allowing Chelsea to be basically tortured before her trial and the treatment she has been receiving while Petraeous is walking around free after paying only $100,000 fine and 2 years on probation.
He gave his mistress classified information so she could write a book and profit from it.
Chelsea did her job when she exposed war crimes with the Collateral Murder video.
The way she has been treated while she is trying to transition is beyond the pale.
Twice she has tried to commit suicide and her punishment was isolation,
That's cruel and unusual punishment, but more so because of her depression.
Transparency, my sagging butt!
yeah, well, here are the laws of this great land
does it profit those who run things? Legal.
is it neutral to those people? Very useful for the appearance of a judicial system.
does it hurt those in power? Illegal.
On the flipside, snoop
I watched a documentary about her, and some of what went down when she collected the data. At the time of watching it, I was a computer science student, and it blew my mind! People were coming and going with thumb drives, mp3 players, and apparently whatever else they wanted, because clearance.
From a cyber and classified data security aspect, that's freaking insane!
Also, after physically assaulting her own superior and being booted to the mail room, not only did she retain her clearance, but was able to download classified data (tens of thousands of files IIRC) from a mailroom computer.
Mind boggling! And what do you want to bet it's not much harder to do even now?
The feds are all hardcore on punishment when they are sheepish on security - the opinion of this baby degree holder in computer science. They got what they deserved, even if what she released hadn't been so damning. I am afraid for her well-being.
Flag Officers Are Exempt
It takes politics to take down a flag officer. One has to get the support of the various political sponsors of generals and admirals -all confirmed in their ranks by the Senate- before any flag officer ends up suffering real punishment. For instance, David Petraeus was confirmed as a four-star General by the Senate on June 30, 2010. Think about how lightly he was chastised for his transgression.
If Paula Broadwell was Manning 's mistress instead of Petraeus', think she'd now be walking about free? [According to the Army, there is no active investigation into Broadwell's actions (Charlotte Observer February 2, 2016 6:55 PM )] She'd be buried in some Federal hellhole as Manning is just because she MIGHT have heard something about Manning's plans to expose US war crimes. CONSPIRACY!
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
Thanks for the link, neo
Again there's the proof that there are two rules of law in this country.
W
Did she have the security clearance to read that information?
And I'm still in awe that Sydney Bluementhal wasn't charged after he stole classified information from the NSA and forwarded it to Hillary who then erased his name from it and forwarded it to Obama.
Did he have clearance to read any of the information he sent to Hillary?
For Obama to have any legacy at all he needs to pardon Chelsea. She has suffered enough.
I wonder who Broadwell and Kelly
were working for, if anyone, I mean who fetes generals?
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
He'd be a fool
to go anywhere without absolute conditions.
In the world we have today, he's safer where he is.
For a bit yet.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
Can't they do a Skype or whatever?
They could have officials there with him, if Putin allowed it, and I don't know why he wouldn't.
Don't know laws of Germany, but I agree - he'd be a fool (and he seems pretty damn sharp to me), except, screw conditions! Just stay put.
Sun, 11/27/2016 - 8:31pm —
Sun, 11/27/2016 - 8:31pm — Pricknick
Have to agree with that! Who'd take the word of current US government officials on anything going against their already-stated intent? Would anyone bet their own life on their integrity in keeping their word? How about that of the notorious liar and contract-breaker, Trump?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
The CIA will be waiting for him so I hope the Germans
keep him well guarded. It's very risky for him to leave Russia but he can't stay there forever and I don't image he is living in "comfort" there.
To thine own self be true.
Snowden prob living better than Assange
If Assange is even still alive!
I can't even imagine being dependent on others to fetch me food and necessary toiletries for years on end.
Snowden has an entire, very large country, full of amazing people. Assange has a building - for years - and he can't leave, ever.
Edit add: Chelsea Manning has solitary confinement
The US smells an awful lot like Saudi Arabia
Political prisoners, government murdering citizens, bullshit charges, torture.
I could never live in a country like that.
... It would then have the
What about droning, snipers, 'accidents', etc.? If they murder Snowden, there had better be riots!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.