Why I prefer that Hillary wins

Don't misunderstand me: I would prefer that Jill Stein wins.
In fact, I would prefer to get punched in the face several times if it would prevent Hillary winning.
But that isn't the choice before us.

I'm under no impression that Hillary will be anything other than a terrible president, but so would The Donald.

I personal don't care that Trump is a pig. It makes little impact on his ability to be competent as president.
His intentions to dramatically cut taxes for the wealthy, gut the EPA and Wall Street regulation, while continuing the GWOT and the surveillance state makes him a terrible choice for president.

On the other hand, Hillary would be only marginally better, if that.

In the recent Wikileaks revelations confirming Hillary Clinton’s duplicity, one of the clearest disclosures of her policy plans concerns her intention regarding Social Security. She stated that she would return to the position of the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, charged with producing recommendations for reducing the deficit, i.e. cutting government social spending....
Hillary Clinton’s speeches to the captains of finance strongly imply that she would resume the project of privatizing Social Security. Hers will be a gradual, stealth approach. The opening salvo will be further cuts in benefits and extensions of the full-benefit retirement age. But these alone will not satisfy Wall Street. The privatization plan will be resurrected, first in the form of legislation once again to begin “partial privatization.” In the end, the objective will be to turn the program into a broker’s-fee-for-service plan entirely in the hands of Wall Street. Retired workers will no longer be unqualifiedly entitled to Social Security benefits. Their fortunes will be tied to the vagaries of the stock market and other speculative ventures favored by brokers. And retirees will pay for this “service.” There will be no refunds when the market goes belly-up.

What's more, if Hillary wins in a landslide, then we can expect the worst of both worlds.

The landslide will be a mandate for more permanent war, more favors for Wall Street, more privatization of the public sphere, more of the racist War on Drugs that feeds mass incarceration, more pipelines and fracking, more half-hearted action against climate change.
A landslide will give Ms. Clinton no motivation to repair the Affordable Care Act’s deep defects. She’ll feel no obligation to maintain her campaign-season opposition to the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which she promoted vigorously as Secretary of State.
Ms. Clinton will interpret the landslide as a license to discard the modest populist concessions she made to keep Bernie Sanders’ supporters inside the Democratic Party fold.

Basically, the corrupt neoliberal, warmongering, political insider Hillary Clinton is the embodiment of everything that is wrong with our political system.

So why on Earth would I prefer that Hillary win?
Two reasons.

One reason is that she won't be winning in a landslide.

There’s been a potential breach of Hillary Clinton’s electoral firewall. And it’s come in New Hampshire, a state that we said a couple of weeks ago could be a good indicator of a Donald Trump comeback because of its large number of swing voters...
If Clinton lost New Hampshire but won her other firewall states, each candidate would finish with 269 electoral votes, taking the election to the House of Representatives.

There is no chance of the Dems winning the House, while the Senate appears headed for a 50-50 split. This makes it harder for Hillary to push through her awful agenda, than Trump would have pushing through his awful agenda (with exceptions, of course).

In a related point, there is Hillary's baggage.

If Hillary Clinton wins Tuesday, she’ll head into office under the cloud of two major FBI investigations, including one that’s reportedly “likely” to lead to an indictment....
At a minimum, it all guarantees that Congress will be probing Justice’s conduct — and demanding some sort of special prosecutor take over the case(s) should Clinton win the White House.
Now, even before Election Day, Hillary is facing two more serious probes. Americans already distrust her — and it seems those worries will only grow if she’s elected.

This is a sure recipe for political gridlock, which is the best we can hope for given these two terrible candidates.

The other reason I would prefer that Hillary wins:

The corrupt neoliberal, warmongering, political insider Hillary Clinton is the embodiment of everything that is wrong with our political system

Why is that a reason for me preferring she wins?
Because she is going to fail, and fail badly.
As the symbolic embodiment of everything that is wrong with our political system, it might finally cause Democratic voters to reject fear and embrace change.

Why is "nothing good can come of this" good? Because ridding the nation of its political corruption will require hitting bottom.
Just as an alcoholic or drug addict is incapable of making any truly positive changes until he/she hits absolute bottom, so it is with our tolerance of a corrupt political system that is poisoning the nation, one injection of corrupt cash, collusion and pay-to-play at a time.

I recently cross-posted Where is our Ferdinand Pecora?
The story was instructive that even as late as 1932, there was no real push for reforming Wall Street.
The status-quo had successfully defended the existing system until then.
Glass-Steagall didn't happen until the entire banking system had collapsed and had been discredited.

There is no chance of reforming our broken political system until it is similarly discredited.
TPTB will fight real reforms tooth-and-nail.

Republican voters have embraced real change.
Independent voters have embraced real change.
Non-voters have embraced real change.

Democratic voters voters have NOT embraced real change.

Sure, Bernie may have won 23 states, but most of those states were caucus states or open primaries.
Most Democratic voters are still paralyzed with fear, and they are holding us all back.

We need to be united in purpose as a people. We need to be so disgusted with the political system that the ruling elite can't drown us out. We need TPTB is actually fear us more than fearing the loss of a little of their power.
Only then will real change happen.

A majority of Democratic voters, as typified by TOP, are more interested in virtue signaling, cheering the team uniform, and trembling in fear of the Hitler-Of-The-Week.
More than anything, Democrats support check-box-identity-politics, and Hillary embodies this.

So will President Hillary discredit the current political system?
I believe she will.

First of all, Hillary is being set up to fail by the economic business cycle.
As I showed here, here, here, and here, we will be in a recession sooner rather than later, and the working class is already living on the edge.

Also, Hillary's military adventure is Syria will be a disaster (and here).

Hillary, the symbolic embodiment of everything that is wrong with our political system, is already distrusted and disliked.
When the economy sinks and her signature war ends in defeat, she will be discredited, as will the establishment that forced her on us.
Then maybe, just maybe, democratic voters will want something other than protection from false fears and false identities. Maybe they will finally demand real change.

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cardboardurinal's picture

largely hope that what you say comes to pass, I worry that you might be wrong on one part of this. My concern is that a Hillary Presidency is going to further strengthen the right-wing of the Republican party. The next Republican President is going to be the most belligerent kind of Republican. The type that Democrats think Donald Trump is. Someone who will impose his regressive, racist, sexist, xenophobic worldview on us all because he will be capable of building a governing coalition while working within the confines of government. This Presidents "successes" will push the Democrats into hyper fear mode and lead to another "safe, electable" candidate like a Tim Kaine or Corey Booker. And because the Democrats will never take the actions needed to correct the actions of their predecessor (see "look forward, not backward"), things will never get better. We will continue to see "safe" candidates because that is what Democrats do. They don't want a Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, or Russ Feingold as the party's standard bearer. That will drive away corporate donations.

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Bisbonian's picture

In the meantime, I have been anxiously awaiting credible word that SOMETHING is going to happen to definitively expose all the Clinton corruption. I've been on pins and needles since the Weiner laptop became public...but I get further disappointed with each passing day. I think it was foolish to get my hopes up.

My fallback hope is too dark to post.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Azazello's picture

Blatant, obvious, outrageous corruption will no longer disqualify a candidate for the highest office in the land. Thanks a bunch, Dems.

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We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

I have a challenge for the original diarist here:

  1. Which candidate rails against the horrible TPP and NAFTA trade polices in every speech (which has systematically deIndustrialized this Country), and vows to terminate them and bring back local American Manufacturing again?
  2. Which candidate does not want "regime change" in Syria and the open Military hostility with Russia it would bring, and knows that this would be catastrophic?
  3. Which candidate hates all Whistleblowing and Wikileaks, and was quoted as saying: "why can't we just Drone Julian Assange"?
  4. Which candidate is supported by all the murderous GOP Neocons, including the Bush crime family, and the people behind Sept 11, and the Iraq War fiasco?
  5. Which candidate is aggressively supported by the corrupt Wall Street and the Foreign Banks, and is paid-off $250,000.00 every time they talk behind closed doors?
  6. Which candidate illegally Trafficks weapons of mass destruction to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and ISIS/ISIL -- and gets personally paid for it?

---

If you answered Trump for 1. and 2., and Clinton for all the rest of them ... you'd be correct.

I look forward to seeing the corrupt, globalist Trade agreements finally get destroyed, and the return of native American Manufacturing (this alone would be a transformative event for this Country), and having a sane Foreign Policy based not on "regime change" chaos and illegal Invasions all over the planet -- but on cooperation with other Countries like Russia.

The following message from Julian Assange is an important warning that must be watched before anyone considers voting for Clinton:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9xbokQO4M0]

-------------

And, as for Trump, while I would prefer Bernie Sanders --- he still does represent a clean break from the evil, corrupt, criminal Wall Street/Neocon crowd that currently controls our Country. Its time for change folks.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vST61W4bGm8]

End Globalism Now!
.

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solublefish's picture

1. Which candidate has promised to bring back manufacturing by LOWERING corporate taxes still further and getting rid of nasty regulations that prevent competitiveness?
2. Which candidate sez we should just move in and TAKE all the oil, then get out?
3. Which candidate consistently states his open hostility to the media, and promised to clamp down on them if elected? (We're “gonna open up our libel laws so when they write purposely negative and horrible and false articles, we can sue them and win lots of money.”)
4. Which candidate is supported by all the aggressive alt-right Übermensch of the country, from the KKK to the 'Traditionalist Workers' Party' to your friendly local FBI office?
5. Which candidate has been funded all his life, in every one of his nefarious schemes to fleece the people and his laborers, by the money of Corrupt Wall Street and Foreign Banks?
6. Which candidate traffics in rape, sexual assault, and race baiting - and gets away with it because he's rich?

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

...when you can ask with the next breath, which candidate is supported by all the aggressive Neocon warmongers of both the Dem and Rep Parties who are determined to risk all of our lives on high-stakes gambles vs. Russia, China, N. Korea, Iran?

Trump may be supported by the continuously dwindling number of angry racists in the country, but it will no be at all difficult for us to use his Presidency to attack them into oblivion. As the Dems and the MSM and many Republicans heap outrage at him every time he tries to advance a racist meme, he will be forced into distancing himself from them and they will be shamed into silence.

But if Hillary is elected, she immediately risks nuclear war with Russia by pushing her No Fly Zone insanity against them. When you weigh the risks, Trump is an evil we can deal with = survive; no such guarantees with Hillary.

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James Kroeger

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That is true for both of them. But only one damages the democratic brand.

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connection. Then ties all to Clinton Foundation. We'll see, but it doesn't seem to be enough to stop the coronation.
Weiner has not performed up to expectations.
Of course the hounds will be after her- we have that to look forward to.
But the thought of Her on the throne is chilling.

stein - baraka
2016

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Wait, wait--it's starting coming back to me. Give me a minute......

Oh, yeah, Osama, Ben Laden, Al Qaida and several attacks on the US, including the 911 attack that Hillary Giuliani-ed into her first primary debate against Sanders, as an excuse for her ardent representation of Wall Street. IIRC, her exact words that evening were "noun, verb, 911, woman."*

*For any who may suffer from the same high degree of "too literal" as I: That is not really a direct or an exact quote, just my impression of her blah, blah, blah.

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solublefish's picture

Though I think on the 'merits' - the few she can claim - HRC is preferable; and Trump would be execrable. But I also worry that an HRC presidency hobbled by Republican intransigence (and gjohnsit is right on that, I expect) will keep HRC from coming out as a champion of the Left just as it did Obama. And the result, I fear, will be growing anger of ordinary white Americans at their betrayal at the hands of their political leaders. They will be right; but they will as always misunderstand the causes of their pain. Reckoning nothing of class, they will be susceptible as always to racist and warmongering manipulation and tough-talk, with the result that what follows HRC will be a hard right turn in the hands of a more capable - and far more dangerous - demagogue than Trump.

But I don't have a crystal ball. I intend to vote my conscience.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

"a champion of the Left". All that either one of them intend(ed) was (is) to fool enough of the people long enough to get elected - and then to screw over everybody but the .001%.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

The left-right paradigm is over.

All that is left is up-down

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Also, the reason why OWS refused to identify with any political party. Very smart move, considering how Homeland Security, under a Democratic President, and Democratic mayors treated them.

At least, in NYC, they got a park. In Boston, the bluest city in what many consider the bluest state, they were allotted a median in one of the most heavily-trafficked parts of the city. It's a wonder they survived the exhaust fumes, let alone the police.

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solublefish's picture

I am under no illusion as to the actual intentions of either HRC or Obama - nor was I ever. But I do not believe that their intentions are self-consciously malign. They are moral idiots, perhaps, but not moral monsters. It is not principle that guides them, but ambition: they are "hollow men", willing tools of the needs of the moment, blown one way or the other by the prevailing political winds.

I will not vote for Hillary; neither will I vote for Trump. I would have gladly voted for Bernie; without him I will likely vote for Stein.

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MarilynW's picture

in the Democratic party, read the emails. The one that says things like, "we will crush Bernie Sanders." The Democratic party machine hates "the left" and all its policies.

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To thine own self be true.

lotlizard's picture

This thread at JackPine Radicals might be the one you mean:

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/this-is-what-hillary-campaign-c...

This is an exchange between John Podesta and GPG’s Joel Johnson, listed as one of the Top Lobbyists for 2016 by website The Hill. GPG stands for Glover Park Group, a leading strategic communications and government affairs firm.

Joel Johnson: Friendly advice. No mercy.
Bernie needs to be ground to a pulp. We can't start believing our own primary bullshit. This is no time to run to the general. Crush him as hard as you can. Other than that, hope all is well and congrats on Nevada!

John Podesta: I agree with that in principle. Where would you stick the knife in?

Joel Johnson: Obama betrayer (Wh [= White House] will affirm). Hapless legislator (Senators/members will affirm). False promiser (policy elites will affirm). Can't win (black people will affirm).

(edited: incorrect first name Joe —> John Podesta)

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MarilynW's picture

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To thine own self be true.

But I do not believe that their intentions are self-consciously malign.

Very few Republicans are self-consciously malign. I've know quite a few of them in my lifetime and I've never met any who are self-consciously malign. They actually believe that they are for all that is good and decent.

I understand the habit of assuming that Democrats are all good intentioned souls, but corporate Democrats like Clinton support the corporate agenda for the same reasons that Republicans do: they want their money so they can win elections.

I see Hillary as fitting wholly into the Republican paradigm, but with an added layer of intentional deception of the many progressive Democrats she makes empty promises to. That is her history and that is her declaration to her donors in private meetings.

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James Kroeger

Amanda Matthews's picture

Slick Willie in too.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

things will never get better.

I can't believe that.

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cardboardurinal's picture

get better as long as we allow the Democrats to pick the "safe" candidate was my point ("safe" is obviously a euphemism for corporate).

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I will be dead of age or disease in few years, but things will go really 3rd world to total nothingness a soon as Hillary gets the directions to the bunker.
I was called sweetie today. Not by a guy flirting. By a guy deferring to a little old lady. Me.
First time in my entire life such a kindness had no sexual connotation.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Cachola's picture

But as for the sweetie, it could be worse. I have been called sir. Female, winter hat, no make up, some sweet cashier called me sir.

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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

Steven D's picture

I am not real fond of being called sir either.

I much prefer my name.

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"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

don't know your name.

The first time I was called one of those, I was single, just out of college--and was a year younger than most in my graduating class, to boot. I had unwittingly dropped something while I was walking quickly to get to work early--my first day!

A high schooler was trying to get my attention. He just kept getting louder. l thought, "Jaysus! That's ear piercing. I hope the person whose attention he is trying to get responds soon so he doesn't have to keep getting louder." Finally, he ran up to me, panting, and handed me the item I'd dropped. I no longer remember what it was.

Right then, I knew I was over the hill. But then, I got to his high school and closed the door to the classroom after the bell rang. At that second, the kids in the room gasped collectively and began murmuring to each other. Having seen me standing just outside the room saying hello as each of them entered, they had assumed I had transferred in from another school district (and therefore had snubbed me, duh. They were jaded city kids.). So, I lived to feel young another day, after all.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGEIMCWob3U]

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Steven D's picture

I suppose I would to anyone who ma'med me too.

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"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

I must remind them of their grandfather. Hey, it's kind of nice.

I DO get kind of angry when I buy about two pounds of groceries and the bagger asks if I need help getting it to my car. I'm old but not doddering! However, at Home Depot, it was nice that the young man carried four bags of top soil to my car. I gave him a dollar. Was that enough of a tip? I figured it was like a dime back when I was working in a lumber yard after school. A dime was usual. A quarter was big time. Pay was 85 cents and hour (10 cents above minimum wage). Contractors would give a quarter after you helped load their truck. Citizens would give a dime for bringing their purchase to their car. Or not. Contractors always tipped. Citizens rarely.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

about your needing help with groceries. Just smile and say, "No, but that's very nice of you" --and strut jauntily to your car.

Someone who is 30 can look old to someone who is 20. All they can see is that you are older than they are. They have no idea of your physical capabilities. Besides, they may be following employer instructions or simply hoping for a tip or for a chance to light up on the way back, having nothing to do with your age. In any case, please don't get angry or insulted. Save the unhealthy anger adrenaline for the "evildoers." Over time, your body will appreciate it.

Meanwhile, use carts whenever possible. Wink

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lotlizard's picture

I picture myself telling the stress-hormone-secreting cellular and organ-level workers who are reporting trouble, “Good job down there in Physiological Security! Always on the ball, aren’t you? My, seventy years of outstanding service! Well, I’ll tell you we sure appreciate it up here. Body wouldn’t be alive if it weren’t for you. But Mental Awareness has looked into this case and it’s okay. Just [a stubbed toe, or whatever]. Everyone, restore normal balance and relax.”

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Or laugh.

According to Joan Rivers, who was smart, though Republican, smiling or laughing signals your mind and body "We're happy!" And your mind and body respond accordingly. May not help, but it couldn't hurt.

That happens to be the punch line to a vaudeville-vintage joke that always makes me smile. Giving the punchline before telling the joke is grounds for execution at the Friars' Club, but I scoff at danger.

So, a Yiddish-speaking immigrant lady goes to the theater for the first time in her life. She's splurged for the ticket because her favorite matinee idol is starring. However, before the play begins, an announcer says an understudy will play the lead role because the star has just passed away backstage.

The lady yells from the balcony, "Give'em chicken soup."

The announcer says drily, "Madam, the man is dead. Chicken soup won't help."

"Couldn't oit!"

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

even more to the right.

I've already seen a piece quoting Schumer, who stated that if the Dems win back the Senate, they will do so with mostly 'centrist' Senatorial candidates.

Soooooooooo, rank-and-file Dems need to understand that they will be forced to negotiate with the other side, in order to get things done. IOW, don't expect any change in ideological direction.

Or, same ol', same ol'.

Mollie


“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit and therefore– to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

dervish's picture

I expect Hillary to do poorly, and she will be followed by an overt Fascist, even worse than Trump.

President Cruz... that's terrifying.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Cuban or Canadian dad and American or Canadian mom who may or may not have given up American citizenship before little Teddie was born in Canada, has real birther issues. That flap started before Trump knocked Cruz out of contention.

Should Cruz run again, he's going to have to face, from the right, both that Constitutional hurdle and xenophobia (but Canadians don't seem to suffer from that as much as others). If both of the larger political parties have not yet done their respective homework on that issue, shame on them. It's the freakin' Constitution, ffs.

Anyway, I think the Republican Party will, next time, be very careful about the identify of its nominee or it will be archives.

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sign that neo-liberalism was the way to win elections. So, those politicians who were liberal changed and the ones coming up modeled on Clinton. Obama's re-election may have confirmed for them that New Democrats are the ones who are electibe, if any still needed confirmation.

If Hillary wins, even though voters dislike her so, that may be further confirmation, especially if she runs again and is re-elected.

I've even read Feingold's loss "chastened" him and he's changed. I hope that is not so. As a Senator, he was like a bright light in a tunnel.

As far as the public, the "don't nominate another George McGovern" bs has been drummed into their heads forever and they believe it. My liberal friends did. I changed some minds, one on one, but it took patience.

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There are big bucks available to those who choose the neo-liberal path. These bucks are available for those who support neo-liberals such as Markos; people campaigning as neo-liberals; and, perhaps above all else, people leaving office after serving the neo-liberal cause.

You're not going to pay for a respectable wedding for your daughter with speeches to union gatherings.

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Democratic members of Congress, asking them to see if they couldn't get some of the nice, big lobbyist donations that the Republicans were getting. (Until then, unions were the chief source of the biggest dollars Democrats were pulling in.)

So they found a way. After 1980, the number of lobbyists increased exponentially, although that does not necessarily have to be a function of the memo. But, it has been downhill fast ever since. Formation of the DLC in the 1980s (formal incorporation in 1985) with donations and guidance from the Koch brothers helped a lot, too. People who blame it all on Reagan are either woefully uninformed or deceitful. Republicans didn't change in the 1980s; Democrats did and, IMO, the changes in Democrats in the 1980s made Republicans more extreme. Now everyone in D.C. with a handful of exceptions is trickle down and/or "it's all about me and mine."

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In with the Ronald Reagan Democrats. And then Bill came in to seal the deal.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

sojourns's picture

I don't know.

Last night it occurred to me that the Clinton Priory of Evil may have gotten to the members of the electoral college as she did the super delegates.

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

I cant say anything else that hasn't been said a million times. Imo T rump will do far less damage to our country.

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Following his website and some of his speeches, I find that what I don't like about his views is that they continue the bad immigration and environmental policies of Obama and past presidents. He is definitely harsh about illegal immigrants, and his wall idea is ridiculous, and Arpaio likes him, but Obama has been terrible to immigrants too, and Hillary is as racist as people come. Trump's followers include lots of Latinos, as well as lots of blacks, and to me his protectionist attitude toward borders is not based on racism but on an America first attitude popular with many people of both parties, though not with me.

Trump is disgraceful on the environment, a climate change denier, and he wants the pipelines, making his planned actions basically the same as Obama's and probably Hillary's. He just isn't lying and hypocritical about it. So to me his worst qualities just continue the bad status quo.

On the other hand, he has a lot of good ideas about creating jobs working on our infrastructure and about stopping the revolving door between government and lobbyists. His health plan is not what I want, single payer, but it will open up competition nationally, in hopes that having many choices offered will force insurance companies to truly compete and lower prices. He does not intend to take any pay. He shows no signs that I can see of wanting to be a dictator or promoting himself, and all his speeches and comments relate to specific steps toward realizing his nostalgic ideas about wanting to make America great again. (Personally, I don't believe we have ever been great, but most Americans agree with him, not me.) I have seen him as rather laid back and calm, friendly and chatty in public, totally in contrast to what the Hillary media portrays, and very hard working and steady. He had kept to a schedule of huge rallies very similar in scope to what Bernie did, but more relaxed and varying in content rather than a standard stump speech. He does spontaneously generous things, and people tell many stories about that, going back decades. His supporters follow that example and have already raised money to rebuild the church Clinton supporters just burned down and tried to pin on Trump.

All in all, he seems a strong but not dictatorial figure who could do some good in some areas and might be prevented from making environmental and immigration problems worse. Most importantly, he is not looking to make wars or do any of the abominable international travesties that will come with Hillary. Although I like Jill's way of thinking and acting much better, I think Trump is the only one who can defeat Hillary and probably the only one who has a chance to change the pervasive culture of corruption.

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Barbara Marquardt

solublefish's picture

Trump's not going to change anything for the better. The classical (Greek, Roman) definition of corruption is to use power for personal gain at the expense of others, rather than to use it to advance the interests of the community as a whole. Trump has never used power to advance the interests of anyone by himself - and has consistently and routinely done so at the expense of others. To imagine that such a man is going to serve the interests of poor little you or me is a fantasy: to entertain the fantasy is understandable; but to believe it is incredible.

Also - not a trivial point - Trump's mainstreaming of alt-right discourse will bring every racist whack-job in the country out of the woodwork - it already has visibly encouraged them - and will shift racial and law-and-order discourse in America even farther rightward than it already is. It's not as if this hasn't happened before. The mainstreaming of this same discourse in the US in the first two decades of the 1900s brought us Jim Crow and a renewed Klan, not to mention legions of 'patriotic' clubs who regularly stomped the 'commies' (union organizers and striking workers) along with the 'niggers', 'chinks', etc.

Trump's political formula is not new: steal fire on economic issues while race-baiting to divide the natural allies among the poor. This was the same formula used by Ben Tillman to divide the Populists along racial lines and protect the wealth and privilege of the remaining 'planter aristocracy' from the righteous outrage of dispossessed yeoman farmers. All Trump will offer ordinary people is the wages of whiteness; and those who can get no better will be inclined to take that - as they have in America before - and woe to the rest of us when they do.

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tourniquet's picture

"Trump's not going to change anything for the better." as if you're arguing that clinton will change things for the better. trump doesn't have a voting record, but clinton does. "making things better" is not generally her m.o.

however, "steal fire on [social] issues while race-baiting to divide the natural allies among the poor." could easily describe the clinton campaign.

about the racists... racists have voted republican since what, shortly after the civil rights movement? at least by reagan's time. the whole "racists racists racists" theme is a bit of a non-sequitur. also, i think it's been blown up electron-microscope-style by the clinton campaign. the same thing happened with the tea party, who i'm guessing a lot of these trump racists actually are... 2008: a rally of a couple hundred geriatrics with gasden flags and OMG IT'S THE KLANNN!! nah, it's just a couple hundred hard-right racists. if we're going to base policy on a couple hundred hard-right racists, we've sold the farm.

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GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG

solublefish's picture

I am not arguing FOR Clinton. I am well aware of her record, and do not expect her to make much of anything better. But she does not stoke racial division, though I believe she does play 'minority' constituencies for fools (as Obama did).

My concern about politically-enabled racists is historical. You suggest that they are just a few and have been around a long time. I see it differently. Racism in society comes and goes in waves; and it comes and goes with class politics, every single time. When wealth concentrates at the top of the social ladder and the majority of the (white) people are hurting economically, they become susceptible to arguments about race that they were immune to when they were flush. This happened in the 1870s, the 1890s, the 1970s, and again in the 1920s - same conditions every time. And the race-baiting argument of the Right is always the same: you hard working (white) people are hurting because 'big bad government' is giving away your jobs/tax money to those lazy/criminal (black/brown) people.

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tourniquet's picture

the "arguing for" bit was a bit of a reflex. i shouldn't have phrased it that way.

perhaps clinton herself doesn't stoke racial division but her campaign certainly has. asserting that sanders was getting the anti-semitic vote, for example, or her surrogates smearing sanders as out of touch with blacks because john lewis didn't see him at selma, or dolores huerta claiming (and never retracting) the "english only!" smear in the nevada caucus.

racism, you argue, is a symptom of wealth inequality. i completely agree. i'd also suggest that it's far more prevalent as you slide down the educational scale. (which, it could be argued, is also a symptom of wealth inequality) it's education that immunizes us against "welfare queen" arguments.

unfortunately hungry people don't have much time for curiosity.

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GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG

solublefish's picture

about Clinton's playing of the race card vs Bernie. Repressed memory.

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good only for whites and violent thugs cards against Bernie and/or Bernie Bros. She played the black man, drug pusher, un-American commie, Kenyan born (which encompasses black and un-American), Muslim and misogynist cards against Obama and/or the Obama boys.

Someone is posting a series on her shameful identity politics. Six parts are in the can and the seventh is in process. Part Six includes links to the first five parts. http://caucus99percent.com/content/hillary-thy-name-part-six

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mouth better in public, though. So, she's a sneakier racist than Trump. That's about all. And Bubba? Please.

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lotlizard's picture

(enough) and only consider him a stepping stone, nothing more.

Why? Trump is what they call a civic nationalist. The “Americans” whose interests Trump wants to fight for include anyone of any background who is an American citizen. To Trump’s way of thinking, immigrants who entered the U.S. legally and naturalize are as “American” as anybody else.

The hardcore Alt-Right are white nationalists. They’re taking the Left’s militant identity politics on behalf of other groups and mutating it into a Netanyahu-tough, Israel-strength, armed-to-the-teeth ethnic nationalism for whites. When people say “Israel’s interests,” are they thinking of the 20% who are Arabs with an Israeli passport? Not really. Truth be told, they’d expel them all if they could. Ergo, to the hardcore Alt-Right, even Trump is just a p—sy.

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Destroying women's reproductive rights and rights at the workplace, denying civil rights and liberties to LGBTQ, racist policing, suppressing the vote etc. makes one a standard Republican, I guess. To me that is synonymous with "demon".

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lunachickie's picture

I go back and forth on this. Well-written food for thought, there, sir--and I will definitely ponder its finer points.

Thinking out loud/initial reaction? Personally, I would like to gouge my own eyes out with ice picks, rather than actually witness either one of these pathetic excuses for "people" become our government leader. But in the end, I am pretty sure I don't like the idea of risking a Hillary Clinton presidency. Because yeah, she'll live under the cloud of impeachment for four years, but she'll cut deals and fucking skate before all the dust settles (because she'll be The President when she cuts all those deals). And she'll still be putting the screws to all of us with her fake Democratic platform (Bernie? Who's Bernie?)...and that'll just piss me off all over again. I'd rather see Trump as POTUS and watch all these usurpers stick it to her and all her crime buddies, right off the bat. It's not like they all don't deserve it.

Hell, I'll even go out on a limb with this much--maybe she won't be permitted to win, because there will be a shit-ton more civil unrest if she does than if Trump does. If Trump wins, Her Fans won't do shit. Near as I can tell, the vast majority of them are far too comfortable in their own lives yet.

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solublefish's picture

And I think most of us agree that neither one should. So the real question perhaps ought to be, not who should one vote for, but by what means we will oppose their bad agendas afterwards - to prevent the shitstorm from spinning out of control.

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Our focus right now should still be on getting the most votes for Stein and the correct ballot issues as we possibly can.

One turd or another will win in a few days. That's the time to start planning for 2017 and beyond. JMO.

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ThoughtfulVoter's picture

IMHO, Trump is much less inclined toward war than Hillary. Trump is also campaigning heavy on bringing the jobs back that NAFTA sent away. War and jobs affect way more people than do abortion.

Trump and Clinton ARE NOT the same.

Trump will not likely change women's rights because there will be more Democrats elected down ticket that will vote against him. (If the predictions are right.)

I am much more worried about Hillary taking us to war than I am about Donald taking away our abortion rights.

Still undecided among the three -- am all out never Hillary and I'm not in a Bernie write-in state -- and only a few days to go.

If a Hillary campaign takes up this much emotional energy, imagine how we'll be drained by 4 years of a Presidency to be fighting her!

But I guess fighting a coup is hard work...listen to this psychiatrist.

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Sandino's picture

Obama will surely pardon her to 'spare the nation'. In addition, the Clinton gang and the neoliberal agenda will continue to rule the Democratic party and work closely with the GOP to plunder the world and hollow out the US. Did I mention WWIII? I can't agree with gjohnsit on this one. The alternative to Clinton is destruction of 'third way' DNC ownership of the democratic party and the chance of a return to progressive politics; a left united in opposition to the craziness of the Trump regime, rather than coopted by by Stockholm syndrome to neoliberal neocons with Democrat labels.

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lunachickie's picture

because THIS:

he alternative to Clinton is destruction of 'third way' DNC ownership of the democratic party and the chance of a return to progressive politics; a left united in opposition to the craziness of the Trump regime,

I still don't completely believe a Trump-led GOP will put those people in shackles and prison, where they belong, but that would indeed destroy the abominable Third Way slime that has infested the Democratic Party. Fucking usurpers stole everything that wasn't nailed down, and slammed the political door shut on millions of actual Left-leaning Americans. Fuck them, and fuck her. I hope she gets her ass kicked and gets frog marched to whatever prison she'll be rotting in.

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harrybothered's picture

But four years of a Clinton presidency, with accompanying recession, gives us a Republican in 2020. Four years of Trump, with accompanying recession, gives us a ??? next time. I can't even speculate on that, except I doubt it will be a Republican. The Democrats have damaged themselves so much this cycle. The details might not be widely known now outside of places like this, but they will spread and become common knowledge before the next election. Maybe we'll actually have a really decent candidate in 2020, irrespective of party.

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"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it."
Terry Pratchett, Monstrous Regiment

Trump is change for the sake of change.
He's change with an upraised finger.

When he fails so will the movement for change.

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lunachickie's picture

Come on, seriously?

When he fails so will the movement for change.

That's not putting a lot of faith in any movement for change.

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After a while people will start believing it. Especially when they are hurting.
The status quo has to fail first and fail spectacularly

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harrybothered's picture

But how many of us will still be listening to them?

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"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it."
Terry Pratchett, Monstrous Regiment

lunachickie's picture

sorry. Not gonna happen. Way too many people saw stuff about the Democrats that they can't un-see in this cycle (starting with all those millions of Sanders supporters) and they're not buying it already, now. Furthermore, they're done with that party, for good, and for real.

The Status Quo would fail miserably on her watch, so you won't have to wish very long for it--because, well, let's face it, everything she touches seems to turn to shit. Or, try another scenario--perhaps she'll be departing this mortal coil before long? Once we're all saddled with that brainless idiot VP of hers, all bets are off.

OTOH, if Donald Trump survives four years in office (and we're not subject to his brainless idiot VP at any point), I envision this country taking a real hard left for 2020. It's a fool's choice in the moment here, but at this point if we must have one of Those Two, I'm thinkin' we really ought to hope for him over Her. I just can't see how she does less damage overall to everything we have left.

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Way too many people saw stuff about the Democrats that they can't un-see in this cycle (starting with all those millions of Sanders supporters) and they're not buying it already, now.

but not enough. not yet

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lunachickie's picture

not me, not you, not anybody. It is going to be what it is. In the meantime, I really don't believe that we're all going to roll over and give up under a Trump presidency. I can't tell you what to do or how to think, but IMO, that's simply not going to happen..

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k9disc's picture

Democrats have sounded in this election.

The authoritarian is strong, man. I mean like hatefully strong. Drumpf supporters are softer and less authoritarian than Hillary supporters; by orders of magnitude. It's ugly over there.

I would like to think that too many people saw the mask come off the Democrats, and that might be the case if Clinton has a major political blow up. But I think it could easily just fade away into the background and be that low intensity brutalization running 24-7-365 that makes so many identify with their oppressors.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

lunachickie's picture

and if I spend enough time at the "mainstream corporate information" FB pages, I'll see enough dumbasses to fill a Great Lake. But none of the Great Lakes is big enough for the rest of us. Because I also think a lot of people are gonna "Cut the Cable" before too long. They're either going to do it out of hatred, or out of a lack of funding. Either way, it'll free up a lot more brains from the shackles of propaganda. That's been happening for awhile already, but I see a huge spike coming, especially if that ATT/Time-Warner deal is allowed to proceed (which it will under either "President", btw)

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harrybothered's picture

right now is based on the hunger for change. And, as Michael Moore put it, many people support him as a middle finger to the establishment. And he's likely to disappoint those people. I don't think that will decrease the hunger for change though. A lot of people do see through him but realize their hands are tied this election - the choices right now are between worse and worser.
I hope we can come together in some way before 2020 to demand positive change, a positive candidate. I don't think we're all just going to give up. The fire has definitely been lit now, a terrible four years will hopefully keep it going and increase it, not dampen it down.

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"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it."
Terry Pratchett, Monstrous Regiment

k9disc's picture

center economic argument.

He's really reached quite far left in his economic rhetoric, but that rhetoric is completely empty when it comes to his solution. He's doing the same thing Democrats and Republicans have done to Leftist solutions since Reagan.

The dead end economic situation we're experiencing here comes directly from 8 years of failed Socialist/Democratic economic policy. That's the word on the street. Hillary wins, it will be 12.

Never mind that in reality we've had 36 years of failed conservative policies on economics, not having done anything that doesn't go through a corporate ROI calculation first.

Drumpf's going to paint economic fairness and fair trade as some kind of wacky Right Wing/Left Wing fantasy. Unserious on it's face. "I mean, shit, this dude sounds like Drumpf..."

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

lunachickie's picture

either. Just sayin' Smile

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k9disc's picture

the center and making us un-serious.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

lotlizard's picture

That if Trump wins and fails, people’s inchoate yearning for change gets discredited.

Whereas Hillary wins and fails, maybe her failures finally reflect badly enough on the status quo that, historically, matters finally come to a head?

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lunachickie's picture

think about it that way?

If she wins, it's all over, IMO. They get that TPP through, then they have undermined our Constitution to its very foundations, and hindsight won't fucking matter at that point.

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I'd put it at a higher number than 5, except I don't know the gerund for a hundredfold.

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lotlizard's picture

In German it’s simpler:
      verhundertfachen
following the pattern ver[number]fachen = increase by factor of [number]

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Smile

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Bollox Ref's picture

I understand your point.

It's going to be god awful for 4+ years. Hopefully some will learn.

Thanks to our wonderful Duopoly Parties..........let the Drunker Games begin.

(Edited)

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Anja Geitz's picture

then everything she did to win, is validated because it worked. But if she loses, and loses to someone as grotesque as Trump, the entire premise of her pitch is questioned.

As far as governing? If we survived 8 years of Bush, and 8 years of Obama, chances are fair, we'll survive 4 years of Trump. The added bonus will hopefully be that the future of the progressive party, the millennials, will take their cue and feel emboldened by the "win" (Hillarys loss), and fight like hell along side the rest of us against the Oligarchy that's running this show.

A Hillary "win" might just be so demoralizing that we risk everyone going home and tuning out. Completely.

Then, again, who really knows?

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

holding their nose for HRC consider the consequences of an HRC win? It is bad enough that Clinton and Obama ruined the democratic party and turned the dem party into the warmongering, neoliberal, anti-human, anti-earth crapfest that it is.

If HRC wins, we can forget about the dem party ever being anything about the ideals it once represented. We can forget about insignificant things like the Constitution and rule of law (already completely abused by BO). The US has become nothing more than a playground for organized crime and corruption - and no one related to her (either by blood or connections) will ever hinder the US' further descent.

Hopefully, some other parties will arise to replace the current garbage.

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dfarrah

There's a lot of governor races in 18. There's one here in Ohio. I think whoever is in the WH is going to kill their party's chances of winning the governor races. With clinton as president for 2 years I don't think a Dem will have a snowballs chance to win Ohio's governors seat. And vice-versa if trump wins. And why is this important? 2020 is the census.......

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Wink's picture

There are damn few Dems that fucked the party, and they only could becuz we let them.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

thanatokephaloides's picture

There are damn few Dems that fucked the party, and they only could becuz we let them.

We "let them"?

Where do we ordinary Serfs have the actual power to exercise to prevent it?

We tried.

We tried voting. That didn't work.
We tried caucusing and primarying. That didn't work.
We tried backing the good guys and denying the bad guys financially. That didn't work, either.
Occupy -- same story.
Boycotts -- same same.
Wikileaks -- ibid.
We couldn't even get the fucking FBI to do its job with Clintons like it would in a flash with any of us Serfs.

So where did we have this power to prevent this corruption and the Dem party takeover thereby? What could we have done to prevent this?

The true answer is simple: There is nothing that any Serf (or group of Serfs no matter how large) could do to prevent it from happening. Only Money (as in Major Millions) talks, all else walks. The idea that ordinary hourly wage-earning Americans matter at all to either mainstream Party is pure illusion.

Do please disabuse yourself of the illusion, wink. You're signing yourself -- and the rest of us -- up for blame that isn't ours by rights. Not yours, not mine, not any Serf's.

Smile

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

lunachickie's picture

I refuse to own their shit and I am done with them. "Damn few Dems", my fat white ass. The whole Democratic "Party" is crawling with perverted frauds. That is NOT your fault or mine.

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solublefish's picture

That's been my response for some time to my mother, when she criticizes me for failing to vote HRC (not that she is enthusiastic, just afraid of Trump): "What if Trump is elected?", she shrieks, "that will be your fault!"

No. It is not your fault or mine. All I can do is vote my conscience and hope for the best.

Now I think this is my answer to ALL us plebeians who are voting in this election. I am not particularly antagonized by anyone's vote, because the SYSTEM is the problem. GIGO. It's not your fault or mine. Vote your conscience. Or maybe don't vote at all, if that's what helps you sleep at night.

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Wink's picture

And shame on us. We knew better when Bubba signed "Welfare Reform." We did nothing becuz we weren't on it, or knew anyone that was. Okay, we'll toss the Repubs a bone, but just one.
solublefish said, "No. It is not your fault or mine. All I can do is vote my conscience and hope for the best." That's what I thought - and did - for 40 years. Hey, I voted! I did my civic duty. I'll leave it up to the professional Left we elect. Wake me up in two years. And, realistically, that should be it. Do our civic duty every two years, then kick back in the barcalounger. That is all that should be required of us. And, truth be told that's all "they" want from us. Except the voting part. "They" would rather we not.
But, see, shortly after the 2012 election reality finally sunk in. There was no eleven dimensional chess moves. Too, there was no hope and change. Obama was caving to the Repubs. He's in favor of Fracking? The Pipeline? F'ing TPP? Are you fucking kidding me?
Then, thinking back to Bubba's admin, well, what bones did he toss our way? Any? Not many! Spent most of his time wagging that damn dog. And, becuz of that, we allowed the handouts to Mr. Newt and the Repubs. Well, at least he's still prez! Imagine if They got back the White House! Sure, he's handing them every thing they want, but at least he's still prez!
Right. Exactly.
So, yes, this apocalypse is on us.
I doubt that "They" even thought it would be this easy.
Really? They bought Mr. Newt's Contract on America?
wow.
Maybe we should try school vouchers.
No way! That went thru?! wow!
How about Money is Speech? Think they'll go for that?
Hobby Lobby?
So, yes, while we were watching Walking Dead the Ubers and Filthys (Oligarchy, 1%) were having us for lunch, stealing us blind. Yeah, but, Wink, we were powerless to do anything, there wasn't a damn thing we could do!
Right.
And if we continue to keep doing that - nothing - those injuns (Native Americans) over at Custer's Pass (or wherever) are going to be runned over by Obama's Feds. Justified, of course, by Obama and his Feds. Will anybody give a damn? Of course not. The Ubers and Filthys counting on us not giving a damn. After all, we didn't give a damn about Mr. Newt's Contract on America, that fucktard still on America's tv networks twenty years after, still knowing we Libs don't and won't give a damn. Got us right where they want us.
But, Wink, we're still powerless to do a damn thing.
Right. Exactly. Why bother. Might as well wait until they come get us for "re-education."
And I have no answer. I have no idea what we could have done back in Bubba's admin. But, I know what Doing Nothing looks like. We're looking at it. And it's on us.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

lotlizard's picture

The GDR, better known to Americans as East Germany, was a dictatorship with the Stasi snooping on everyone, alert for any sign of dissent.

Perhaps that Marxist indoctrination in the schools actually did lay some sort of psychological and sociological groundwork for Spartacus-like action?

At any rate, ordinary citizens ended up forcing radical change through mass civil disobedience. (Gorbachev at the helm deciding it was time for the USSR to recuse itself from the Big Brother role helped immensely, of course.)

Now, what about our American “democratic republic”?

What now, now that Obama has bequeathed to us — in the form of the NSA and “government by Google” — a pervasive surveillance net and means for misdirecting public opinion and quashing dissent, the likes of which the Stasi could never have imagined in their wildest dreams?

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ending welfare as we know it, or any of the other crap he did.

Please be very specific.

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lunachickie's picture

As noted by your last paragraph:

I have no answer. I have no idea what we could have done back in Bubba's admin.

You kind of undermined your whole argument here. If you have no idea what we could have done, neither did anybody else. So don't blame yourself and the other victims of these state-sanctioned actions against an entire population. Pretty useless at this point, and serves no other reason than to de-motivate. Is that what you want?

No? Then please adjust your mindset on this. I'm not owning this past crap and neither should you. What we own is THE FUTURE.

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Wink's picture

until one finally wakes up, smells the oligarchy. It should have happened in Bubba II, except we were all glued to Monicagate. While we had visions of cigars in our heads they were dreaming up ways to cut Social Security and every other FDR safety net "entitlement."
It should have happened in Bush I, but we were too busy protesting his war.
It should have happened in Obama I, but we were applauding ObamaCare.
We new were getting screwed and tattooed but we let it slide.
Something about eleven dimensional chess and how Obama had 'em right where he wanted 'em. Except he didn't. Was the other way around.
Sure, we can deny culpability, blame it on the elected. Or we can look in the mirror.
lotlizard has it right. The only way to beat this horse$h!t is 100,000 white privileged at Standing Rock. Another 100,000 in the streets of America's biggest cities; 5,000 and 10,000 in the smaller cities with "No!" signs protesting HRC's latest assault on the 99%. We need bodies in the streets as they did in East Germany, Bernie doing his part leading the parade.
"Again, Her Highness has let us down... "
The apocalypse is on us. Time to slow it down, end it.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

To use the language of Bill Clinton, it depends on who "we" is. To reach your conclusion you need to include a lot of the identity politics liberals such as those at the GOS. "Sure poverty has exploded in poor black communities, but look at the empowerment of the language police."

There are a LOT of people who have sold out for personal and family gain and symbolic pottage. There are also a lot of people, an amazing number of people, who did all they could do and more. There are people who put their bodies on the line. There are people of very modest means who gave way more than they could afford. Are the heroic native Americans trying to stop the pipeline "letting them?" Will they have "let them" if the pipeline is built over their beaten bodies?

From what I can see the "we" at C99% are not the "we" you are talking about. It's a critical distinction.

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