Clinton Campaign: Russians hacking DNC! Trying to influence our elections!
Are we talking about acts of war?
Should America launch retaliatory measures?
Such is the patent nonsense we've been hearing lately in the MSM that way too many former Bernie supporters have been taking way too seriously.
For the record, what is the actual truth we are dealing with?
The first morsel of truth we should be aware of is that all governments around the world that are major players in international affairs have for quite some time been doing their utmost to perfect their abilities to both 1) hack into the secure sites of other countries and 2) protect themselves from the same.
It would indeed be utterly insane for them to not do so.
Another truth: there has not been a time since WWII when the United States has not made an effort to influence the elections of other nations if/when it (the CIA) perceived that it would be in America's interests to do so.
Our political leaders have consistently shown that they are not above doing such things. We have a long history of not only fomenting political revolutions/insurrections in other states, but also of attempting to arrange the assassination of leaders of other countries when we thought it would be in our interests.
Given these indisputable facts re: our political history, it is indeed profoundly hypocritical for American politicians to now declare that efforts by other countries to do the same thing to us are both outrageous and alarming.
These expressions of outrage---dutifully repeated by the MSM---are beyond disingenuous; they are indeed purely manipulative in nature, directed at a domestic audience for two identifiable reasons: 1) to get Her elected, and 2) to start building up public support for Her plans to start challenging Russia as our 'enemy' once she takes office.
The Clinton team understands that, when you make an accusation of this sort, you are insinuating that you are not guilty of precisely the same thing you are accusing others of (well, cuz you are so outraged and everything).
Kind of like when the Clinton campaign artfully smeared B. Sanders with their accusation that he was artfully smearing Her majesty.
The ultimate truth is that since forever all nations have always tried to influence the outcome of elections in other countries if 1) they believe their vital interests are at stake, and 2) they have the means to do so.
The only thing that has changed over the past 40 years is that influencing the elections of other countries is much easier now than it used to be.
Back in the day, it usually involved getting spies/agents in the target country and then finding ways to get money to the political opposition in ways that are not detectable. Now days, with the Internet dominating the news stream, it is a much more achievable ambition to pursue.
.
So is Russia trying to influence our election? Probably. Should that news/possibility be grounds for us to utterly reject whomever they might prefer to see as President, instead? Not if you have a brain in your head.
After all, there is always the possibility that the interests another country might be trying to protect might actually dovetail with the actual interests of the American people.
Think of Germany in the 1930's. It would have indeed been rational for other countries to try to influence the political environment in that country to turn the public against Hitler.
It was clearly a time when the interests of 'outsiders' (e.g., the USSR) did dovetail with the actual interests of the German people (4-8 million of them lost their lives).
It just so happens that this is the same reality we are dealing with at the present moment.
The Russians are clearly afraid of the possibility that a President Hillary Clinton---based on her political history and her recent No Fly Zone proposal---could end up provoking a nuclear showdown with them.
They understandably want to avoid that. This very legitimate concern also happens to dovetail with the actual interests of the American people at this particular moment in time.
So no, this is not a time when Bernie Sanders supporters should be rallying around Her out of a concern that the Russians might be hoping to influence the outcome of our November election.
I would suggest that they respond in precisely the opposite way.
They need to understand that the Russians do indeed want to see Hillary lose the election for the same sane reasons why we should all be hoping that she will lose: to save our country from the horrifying possibility of a nuclear war occurring due to 1) miscalculation on her part, and 2) her obsession with seeing Russia as America's Enemy.
They should know better that the Clinton campaign's utterances cannot be taken at face value and they cannot be trusted as legitimate statements of fact. With the Clintons, you always have to look behind the simple words they use to discover their real purposes & intent.
There is still time.
We may yet be able to save ourselves with a bit of luck...
Comments
Dubai, among other nations that don't have extradition
treaties with the U.S.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
In a war with Russia,
I don't believe they would fare any better than Hitler's army did. But the carnage from the attempt could be even worse.
native
Pfff! — Empress NapHilleon Clintonaparte cannot fail.
Cue Tchaikovsky’s 1812 Overture.
A link you gave me earlier
…gave me a peek at a special edition of the magazine entitled "Heil Heillery." And it was a logical name in the context of their concerns in Europe.
But the far right is confusing. The titles and images look like the Right, but the text often reads like the antiwar Left.
The frustration of the migration issue mirrored Trump's demand for a wall on the border. But who can deny the stress off massive refugee resettlement. And then there's the stress of being forced to like it. The Palestinians didn't like it either when they had to accept a mass migration of Jews. It eventually became what they feared most.
Mostly the European Right seems concerned about geopolitics. In reality, they live and breathe it in their very geography. The American Right lives apart and isolated from the world by two vast oceans. To them, geopolitics is someplace you invade for their resources. They're not a bit concerned about the aftermath. Not their problem.
I've always found it hard to keep Left and Right sorted between Europe and the US. The one thing I did realize during this election cycle is that the Real Left is a very serious realm with scant popular culture. Much like it was portrayed in "Reds" and movies of that ilk. There are artists, writers, but they are circumspect.
Seems to me, the Left never belonged at Daily Kos, which is a frivolous, star-fucking realm, when you think about it. Little intellectual rigor. Lots of sizzle and no sausage. The March 15 migration was probably long overdue and, I think, regrettably delayed. The Left wasn't quite ready for what needed to be done.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
I think the concept of
a "Right vs Left" dichotomy, which has long been used as a primary descriptor of political movements and events, is losing (or perhaps has already lost) much of its usefulness. The meaning and significance of both categories, "the Right" and "the Left" has been as we say, globalized - which is another way of saying, de-contextualized. Terms of reference that have been shorn of their local affiliations and forced into a more universal context.
native
Could be, native. Before this goes much further
…we are going to need a big pow wow about this. With internationals.
Because we are stepping into an identity crisis.
A wise teacher once told me the definition of an identity crisis was a change of audience. This happens during times of rapid social evolution. I sense in the time we've been here, our audience may have changed a lot.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
There's rapid social
evolution happening for sure, at a breakneck pace. Resulting in many bizarre juxtapositions.
native
The German center-left-Green consensus on arms and the military
The German center-left-Green consensus position on arms and the military is confused and muddled — because it has no content. It just regards Germany and its arms industry as a military resource at the disposal of the U.S., NATO, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and, uh, Erdogan?
So now, instead of just one dictator, the German military and arms industry serves the interests of and obeys a whole string of other people’s dysfunctional, ultra-nationalistic, and/or dictatorial regimes.
Whereas — in what is perhaps an ironic twist — the Right’s position is: when it comes to military strength, pride in national identity, counter-terrorism, border barriers, and migration control, Germany should be more like a country that is a standard-setter for the West in all those things: Israel.
NATO is a monster. It needs to be euthanized.
I think Turkey is no longer in play.
Some say the degree of separation between all three actors in that horror film is less than zero.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Do the Russians have an equivalent of the NED ?
Do they get billions of rubles to foment protests and set up fake opposition newspapers ? Was there a Russian Victoria Nuland passing out cookies at Bernie rallies ? Is c99 funded by Russia ?
The world needs to know.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Is c99 funded by Russia ?
I often wish it were.
JtC could use the money!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
By Russia?
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
Nyet...
No bridge over roubled waters? n/t
...Iran, Chile, the Philipines, Panama, "South" Vietnam,
Laos, Cambodia, Honduras, Guatemala, Columbia (the part that is now 'Panama'), Cuba, Somalia, Chad, Niger, Mexico (all the way back to 1846)...somebody stop me.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
HAWAII!
We f@cked them over pretty well, also.
peace
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Puerto Rico!
One of thesecdays I will write an essay on how we have been fucked.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.
Yes, thank you both.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Nicely droll B,
Giggle.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Grover Cleveland’s Sec of State condemned the annexationist coup
in Hawaii, so of course there is no high school in Honolulu named after him or Cleveland.
Instead, as a big middle finger to the Hawaiian people, there are the two high schools named after William McKinley and Teddy Roosevelt, the president and vice president responsible for turning Hawaii into a colony.
How about Haiti
We and the French have colluded to completely screw Haiti from their revolution up to now. It seems to me that there is a special fervor in screwing over Haiti that may have a racist component. Like how dare these black people win independence, we will fix them!
Haiti was in my mental list,
and I never got around to typing it. Thanks for the reminder.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Don't forget Ecuador
They have started to work on Ecuador. Not over Assange but because Correa is bad for corpirations like Chevron.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.
Correa fatal oops 2010, "in favor of good things"
Hillary Clinton tries to fix relationship with Ecuador President Rafael Correa
Not sure what he's talking about "new left" but Up with Rights of Nature! ~raises fist~ Right on.
Peace
Yup. Regime change in Russia is what Killary wants.
All this BS is a pretext for war against Russia and enabling Israel to nuke Iran. FYI- there were 26.6 million Russians killed in WWII out of over 60 million total casualties. Good essay here: Halloween Is Coming, Vladimir Putin Isn’t
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020
We did much more than try to influence elections!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/cia-admits-role-1953-irani...
and so on.
I learned that saying there is election/regist. fraud =
to being anti-American or a Trump Supporter.
I do not believe the Roosians (and Moose) wiped out me and my husband's registration thus stealing our right to vote in the Primary.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Voter suppression happened in NYC against Bernie
From what I can tell, voter rolls were manipulated from keeping independents from both registering and voting in the primaries. Bill de Blasio went into kabuki mode and called for an investigation into such egregious purging of the voter rolls. And in CA apparently hundreds of thousands of uncounted votes. The fact is, the only people who have cheated, did cheat, and will cheat are people within the system. Americans cheating Americans with Putin no where in site.
It's time for war.
We have conclusively proved Russia hacked the DNC and other computer systems and is trying to corrupt the democratic process in the United States of America. That is an act of war by Russia. I call on Congress to issue an immediate declaration of war against Russia. I will follow up with a massive nuclear strike that destroys Russia's military capability and stops them from committing any further acts of war. God bless you and god bless the United States of America.
[That is what I imagine President Obama would have said in his prime-time speech to the nation if it were indeed true that Russia was actually caught red-handed hacking our systems and influencing our elections. There could be no other legitimate response.]
One small correction
...because if he took the time to say what he was GOING to do, it would already be too late. This statement gives him a few minutes head start. It would be his last words.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Good point. Can't let the commies see you coming. n/t
I was in Strategic Air Command
playing Dr. Strangelove/Wargames for eight years. The initial exchange would be over in less than thirty minutes. Major Kong would take significantly longer to fly his mission (provided he was missed by that first exchange), but as we all know from the movies, he wouldn't be called back. Nor would the Bears.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Don't agree
Nothing in it for Obama to do that, especially after he'd just gotten his Nobel Peace Prize for words, think he'd just draw another red line.
He seems to like red lines.
And if the countries American
And if the countries American (edit: corporate/billionaire) interests in public office had done that to were capable of such a response themselves, I'd have thought even these bullying idiots would have refrained. But since they're already setting up to apparently nuke every country capable of withstanding the usual attack/invasion with conventional weapons and believe that 'limited' nuclear war-crimes would be survivable for themselves, evidently not.
They'll look silly trying to breath oxygen-free radioactive air on a dead planet, won't they?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Reading these types of opinions is what's keeping me sane
I'm so glad I'm not the only Bernie supporter who thinks that a vote for Clinton would be suicidal. Living like I do in a dark Blue State, I'm already being called names/accused of being a Putin "lover" if I even dare to speak up about the "dangerous" rhetoric I'm hearing coming out of the Clinton campaign over these leaked emails. It seems like the media - who won't dare to report on them - can hardly wait to set us up for yet another military intervention (similar/worse than Iraq) yet I seem to be the only one who sees that what Clinton's "surrogates" are claiming about Russian Hackers - there's no "there" there.
Terrifying times ahead if Hillary wins...What I really fear right now? That it's too late to change course now.
agree with KLN
think the least dangerous option is President Trump.
How many of us ever thought we'd say that? Astonishing.
We've learned, after watching the Klintons destroy Bernie Sanders, without a bit of concern for the millions of us supporting him ( "oh, we'll get them when they have no other option!") - and they seem frantic now, making up these fake polls, threatening us with FEAR of Putin ( who, IMHO, sounds more sane than the Klinton Krew!)- all lies.
Our best option, getting Jill way beyond 5% Electing A.B.C. ( Anybody But Clinton) and that means Trump, and hoping the Flying Spaghetti Monster has lotsa colander hats available!
BTW, for those interested, Drudge on Twitter has an interesting picture of a strange "implant?", or swelling in Her Heinious right side of her face? What's up with that?
Got a link handy?
Got a link handy?
Wondering if it's some Pinocchio effect appearing, only not by increasing the size of the nose but to the side because she's that freaking crooked?
Edit: found pics in an article. Going by the size and shape, I'd say that she has a loose screw in there.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Is it money or what?
Are the Clintons trying to extort something from Putin for their "foundation"? Are they threatening war to strong arm Russia into some business arrangement that will benefit one of their friends?
I personally can't see Hillary going to war just for the sake of regime change. Is there secret money involved somewhere? Something deep, never referred to in e-mails, and Wiki-leaks can't help us out on this one. Is it power mongering, and Hillary wants to be Queen of the World, and all the other smaller countries will bow to her if she dominates Russia?
Or is this talk against Russia simply a fear inducement to get voters out for her? Hillary's generation feared Russia in the cold war. Her campaign started out calling Trump a friend of Putin, to Russia hacking the DNC, to now impending war with them. The meme is escalating, but is the current generation as afraid of Russia as those older folks Clinton's age who lived during the cold war?
Toxic mix of money and neocon ideologoy
Putin means big business for the MIC. Billions have been allocated in the budget to counter the Russian threat against Lithuanians. NATO countries will start increasing their military budgets which most likely means buying American made weapons. The Atlantic Council at about the time of the email revelations wrote up a buying list for the Poles on which American weapon systems to buy. The Putin threat will add to the MIC budgets amounts way beyond what the war on terror generated.
And there is then neocon ideology of a world that must be dominated by America. And resistance must be met with subversion and force.
It's not Hillary alone,
or money alone. It is IMO, the combined interests of the US Deep State, and the banking and industrial cartels that assure its continuance. The fine folks who comprise this network of mutual advantage perceive global hegemony to be slipping from their hitherto firm grasp, and they will not tolerate the rise of another superpower to a rival status. These are men who have grown accustomed to getting their own way and being rewarded handsomely for it, having ruled the roost for at least the past fifty years or so. The only nation ever to have seriously challenged their undisputed right to rule was Russia... then known as the USSR, and now as the Russian Federation... but this is a distinction without a difference, in the mindset of our Lords of the Free World.
native
The short answer is best addressed with a question.
Do you know how much the end of the cold war cost the MIC?
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
It is too late.
At this point, there are no rational arguments when it comes to have anything to do with Russia. Not hacking, nor foreign policy, sanctions, nothing. The demonization of Russia and Putin is now a done deal and is a given in all of the mass media outlets including TOP and other pro-democrat sites. This includes republicans both in the House and Senate.
What we have witnessed over the last 3 years is the same process of propaganda that took us into an invasion and war with Iraq. Propaganda works. Most Americans at the time of the Iraq invasion supported Bush even though the invasion was built totally on lies and distortions. But from what I can tell, the propaganda and hysterics around Putin/Russia is even beyond what gave Bush support for the invasion of Iraq. And at the center of this Bush duplicate campaign are the democrats.
The hysterics will not stop after the election if Clinton wins. Clinton accused Putin of supporting and funding anti-fracking movement in a speech. The NYTimes had an article by "straight reporters" about 2 months ago roughly that accused Putin of being at the center of the anti-TPP movement. Given the massive propaganda and hatred being generated toward the Russians, the accusations of being a Putin useful idiot will used to shut down domestic debates which go against Clinton's corporate policies.
Hey, if Putin's against
Hey, if Putin's against fracking and corporate coups, he'd be much better for America's President than Hillary!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
So I guess that means Hillary's going to take us to war
if she takes the Presidency. Russia must be punished for "hacking" the emails that showed how corrupt our system is. Just add it to the teetering tower of lies and let the billionaire hedonists be.
Beware the bullshit factories.
I think "the Russians" might be at it again today
perhaps it's just my computer but some sites are not coming in. Yet others, obviously, are fine.
This is how I felt in 1980
except that now I am all but sure of it. Reagan had a weird messianic delusion where he actually believed that he could outlaw nuclear weapons. We all thought that he as just lying - just like he lied about everything else. Hillary is not lying, though she lies about everything else.
I live in the blast radius when SF is nuked, so just in case my last hope - that the Joint Chiefs say, "get the straightjacket!" when Hillary orders the launch … it was nice knowing you all.
On to Biden since 1973
Had same thought
It has been strangely factions within the Pentagon who are trying to prevent war not start one. It was Gates who didn't want to bomb Libya as he believed this was stretching the military too far. Hillary didn't have a clue. I get this impression that the neocons think they can order a nuclear attack in the morning and celebrate with a nice dinner and wine in the evening.
Maybe, just maybe
we can hope for a few generals to put a stop to any really stupid moves.
Not likely, historically, but the stakes are getting higher.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
You nailed it - the neocons
You nailed it - the neocons despise the reality-based (edit: community). The world they live in doesn't need no stinkin' reality!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Dwelling where I do.....
...... (Colorado Springs, Colorado) I'll already be there when you arrive at the Great Beyond!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Remember when Reagan outlawed Russia forever?
See ya! ~salute~
"What's the use of a deterrent
if you don't use it?" - Theresa May (British PM)
Peter Sellers couldn't have said it better, even with his fake German accent.
A minor point - Obama wil not launch, regardless of the situation. He wants to liive, and not in a hardened bunker eating iodine pills for dinner. Hillary, OTOH, will greet the "New Clear Dawn" standing on the balcony of the white house with her right arm outstretched, proudly awaiting the culmination of her life.
On to Biden since 1973
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