I Hate Hillary But I am Voting For Her - Here is Why

Submitted by capforfun on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 2:13pm

I know, I know she is a liar, corporatist and really corrupt, believe me I get it. I supported Bernie from day one as he was the first politician in my life (57) who I felt was both truthful and uncorrupted by the Oligarchs. In other words someone who would look out for me and my family. Finally, on the details I agreed with pretty much everything he said and represented.

Ok that out of the way, why Hillary? Well the reality is we are going to be stuck with either Hillary or Donald and the reality is he is not an option. He is a crazy sociopath who would absolutely destroy any hope for my new grandson. I could go on and on but folks, he is one crazy MOFO.

So Miss Hillary, what are to do with her. I think progressives need to be there on November 9th hitting her hard and pressing her letting her know that the things you were forced to support to get past Bernie are now things we expect done, period. What we have to hold over her head is the 2nd term and it needs to be made 100% clear that she will never see it unless she honors the most recent positions i.e. No TPP, Free college program, Single payer or at least a public option, dramatic increase in taxes on the wealthy, increase minimum wage to $15 and the list goes on and on.

We all owe Bernie a lot, yes I know he should have won but in the process he got Hillary on the record supporting progressive issues she never would have without him. Now it is our job to keep her feet to the fire.

So I encourage everyone to vote and vote Hillary, even if you have to show up to the polls with a cloths pin on your nose (I plan to).

Update - Ok, so I woke up this AM to see that over 100 of you have flamed me but unfortunately your premise is a bit off. First of all I am no Clintonite. If you look at my past posts here or on the other site which I have not posted on for maybe 8 months (and was banned from for weeks at a time for supporting Bernie) due to their insanity.

With that said, as I tell my kids all the time and scream at the TV to the Republicans, you haver to live in the reality world with the rest of us. Now is there anyone here who honestly believes that neither Trump or Clinton is going to be our next president? If that is the case, then pick your poison.

Tags:

#2016 #HillaryClinton #DonaldTrump

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Comments

Submitted by Hawkfish on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 10:50pm

Margin of victory is the latest goal

See my comment on another thread about Friedman's NYT column this AM.

—

We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Thu, 10/13/2016 - 12:28am

O, my prophetic soul!

Hamlet, Act 1.

I had not seen your post or Friedman before I posted, but that what these diaries have been saying to me, albeit while using very different words and portraying very different motives.

Thanks for the confirmation. It's good to know my imagination was not running away with me. Actually, I kind of knew that because I am not very imaginative, though I wish I were.

Submitted by rachael7 on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 4:00pm

Patently Ridiculous

Threaten her with the 2nd term?!? Seriously?!? I almost pissed myself laughing at that. You don't think they can come up with another trump for the next election? And the one after that? Here, let me give you the news of the future today "DNC Chair Says _____ (D candidate) Only Logical Choice Because _____ (R candidate) is 'One Crazy MOFO'". Give it a rest, dude. If you're that scared of Trump, fine, go piss your pants, cry into your beer and keep being part of the problem. If it is a two party system and one party is always unacceptable, then it is a ONE party system, not democracy. Want democracy? Want to make things better? Want to be part of the solution instead of the problem? Then reject the two party framing and vote for someone else!

Submitted by RejectingThe3rdWay on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 4:11pm

Crazy Cruz is already waiting in the wings

And he scared me FAR MORE than Trump

Pencil it in for the bread and circuses that are laughably called an election

Crazy Cruz vs. Killary Clinton

—

When I was a kid, Republicans used to red scare people, now it's the Democrats. I am getting too damn old for this crap!

Submitted by UntimelyRippd on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 5:06pm

who even thinks her health will hold out that long?

at this point, i'm doubting she'll be able to keep showing up through the end of her first term, leaving the question: does she resign in favor of Pence, or do we get the traditional American approach of the President's spouse surreptitiously governing while the President lies incapacitate?

—

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Submitted by riverlover on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 6:12pm

I am starting to believe that we have not seen her since 9/11.

Seriously, I am post-concussive, but that woman is a chameleon now with weight, wrinkles, moles and finger lengths. Sounds "fringe-ey" yes.

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Submitted by elenacarlena on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 4:12pm

Nope. She's not enough different from Trump that I care any

more about the difference. I do not want a Trump Presidency, but I almost equally do not want a Hill Presidency. Jill Stein's positions are heads and shoulders above those of all the other candidates running, so I'm voting for her. Others can do what they wish. I'm hoping enough people will agree with me and ignore the "can't win" attempt at a self-fulfilling prophecy that Jill will win. My family is coming along.

If you don't vote for Jill, then you're splitting the vote away from the woman who should be our President and Trump could end up voted in by Congress. IOW, a vote for Hillary is a vote for Trump.

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Submitted by rachael7 on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 8:38pm

Well Said!!

Couldn't agree more!

Submitted by dervish on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 4:16pm

We're even

My vote cancels yours. I am voting for Trump.

I'm a lifelong progressive, and Trump is at odds with most of what I hold dear, but I believe he will do far less damage than Hillary. A vote for Hillary is a vote for un-ending wars. I've had enough.

—

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Submitted by elenacarlena on Thu, 10/13/2016 - 3:41am

Then why not vote for Jill?

If everyone who disliked both Hill and Trump voted for Jill, Jill would win.

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Submitted by dervish on Thu, 10/13/2016 - 11:44am

I want my vote to cancel a Clinton vote.

Voting for Trump is twice as effective as voting for Stein, even if it's distasteful.

—

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Submitted by elenacarlena on Thu, 10/13/2016 - 12:33pm

I understand, but think how you'll feel if Stein gets 49%

of the vote, so Congress appoints Clinton or Trump.

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Submitted by riverlover on Thu, 10/13/2016 - 12:39pm

If that scenario were to occur (Stein 49%)

would that be it? Or do the rules require 50.x % to win? And if she did, would Congress dare to appoint someone else? It's going to be a 4-party race. Presumably.

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Submitted by elenacarlena on Thu, 10/13/2016 - 6:36pm

According to the National Archives electoral college page,

If no candidate receives a majority of Electoral votes, the House of Representatives elects the President from the 3 Presidential candidates who received the most Electoral votes.

So I'm saying if she got 49% of electoral votes. Then it goes to the House (and before the next term, so the current, lame duck House), which currently is majority Republican establishment. Assuming if Stein is very popular, Clinton would be next, the third candidate would be either Trump or Johnson.

So would the House dare to appoint someone else? Yes, I think they would, especially if the voters did not choose Johnson (leaving two main versus one indie candidate). They at that point have been either re-elected to two-year terms or have not been re-elected. So they'll either figure all will be forgiven two years from now, or it doesn't matter because they're about to become lobbyists or whatever. They'll claim Stein is outlandish and Clinton or Trump the more "responsible" choice, just like they try to claim now. I think because they're establishment they'll vote for Hill, although because they're Repug they could vote Trump (or Johnson if Trump was not one of the top 3).

https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/faq.html

So if Stein could win and falls a little short, then a vote for Clinton is a vote for Trump. Or a vote for Trump is a vote for Clinton.

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Submitted by Ellen North on Fri, 10/14/2016 - 1:09am

If Jill got 49% of the votes,

If Jill got 49% of the votes, the rest would be split between the corporate party candidates, and more than 2% of the rest of the vote could be expected to go to the candidate having the lesser portion, so that Jill - and the rest of the world - would win!

Since Indies form 40% of the US voting population and since no sane person, whether Dem or Repub, wants either psychopathic corporate/billionaire party representative, this could be very possible.

Just listening to this, (which includes Green Party candidates, a least one of whom the corporate media, needless to say, refuses to cover at all,) from Lee's Clean Money Candidate promotion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NaH4ICLcSE&feature=em-subs_digest

These Candidates Refuse To Take Corporate Money [32]
Redacted Tonight

Published on Oct 13, 2016

Lee Camp interviews candidates who are a small section of politicians who do not take money from corporations. Lee talks with Margaret Flowers from Maryland and Arn Menconi from Colorado who are both running for the Senate this election year as clean candidates. Lee and these two remarkable politicians discuss political corruption and their agenda for real progressive reform. Check out more information on candidates like these at cleanmoneycandidates.org.

Edited to add something that came up after listening to the Redacted segment:

Dunno about this site, but this wouldn't be surprising with the Clinton/corporate media lunacy and all.

If the rest of this is true, people around the world - including long-threatened Iran - are finally preparing to defend themselves against the inimical - and nuclear - threat of a Clinton Presidency, or of any corporate-compliant candidate. And they have to, even if it means the obliteration of much of North America to rid remaining life of the evil so evidently immediately fatal to all. (Personally, I'm hoping to never know what hit me...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui3vbHrgzRk

ALERT, ALERT, ALERT BREAKING NEWS Now In DEFCON 3
NEWS CHANNEL 428

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by ThoughtfulVoter on Thu, 10/13/2016 - 4:53am

Trump is less inclined to war

Trump is less inclined to war than Hillary, at least when he talks to the vets. He talks about other options before war. I don't follow him much, so can't remember exactly what he said (just my impression of it.)

I'm still undecided, but want my vote to count in stopping the Clinton machine so may very well end up voting for Trump too.

Submitted by ZimInSeattle on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 4:23pm

Asking me to vote for Hillary is like a thief stealing my car

and then asking me for gas money. I spent $2700 of my hard earned money on Bernie's campaign and now I'm supposed to vote for the person who stole it? Voting Killary or Trump is a wasted vote. Be constructive and vote for Stein. Killary is going to win by a lot anyway. At least if the Green's can get 5% this time around, they will get federal funding in 2020. In the meantime, a whole lot more people are going to die needlessly.

—

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020

Submitted by Benny on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 7:48pm

Great Analogy

That's how I perceive it too.

I'm voting 3rd party to continue the political revolution. Bernie tried with the Dems, but the elites who look down at the middle class or those who aren't in the high tech/Wst bubble would not allow it. I still support Bernie and the more progressive Dems, but we need to start a higher infrastructure for a 3rd party to make our democracy stronger, which has been weakened by the GOP and the DLC. Bernie's not even running as a Dem for re-election.

Interesting piece in the NY Post by Thomas Frank on "How the WaPo Killed Bernie Sanders' Candidacy."

http://nypost.com/2016/10/12/how-the-washington-post-killed-bernie-sande...

—

One equal temper of heroic hearts, Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.--Tennyson

Submitted by riverlover on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 9:32pm

NYT had a hand in the killing, too

and now it's Hill!, Hill! (Heil Hill?) from everywhere: the Atlantic making a fucking endorsement lost one subscriber here, NYT I gave up before this began. From most corners now, it's messages to submit. I read for information, not orders. And the is a wad of information now gushing from Wikileaks that confirm my worst suspicions and beyond.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Submitted by Raggedy Ann on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 4:23pm

If voting for her heinous floats your boat,

have at it. It's unnecessary to place your testimony on these pages, however, unless you are trying to sic the boogey man on the rest of us. Unfortunately, it won't work, but I don't think you care, cuz here you are vomiting all over the place! Have a beautiful day!

—

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Submitted by mimi on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 4:33pm

capforfun - that was very crapfornofun - but if you insist

please proceed. Happy voting day for you.

Submitted by Bollox Ref on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 4:33pm

Well, you've convinced me

I'm very afeared, very afeared indeed............. of Hillary.

Put me down as a vote for Stein (which I'm told is a vote for Trump anyway).

—

Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Submitted by Lenzabi on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 4:48pm

Yeah, well sorry, but Hillary

Yeah, well sorry, but Hillary and the DNC lost me with their BS they pulled this last primary, and so, the only gal getting my vote will be Dr. Jill Stein.

—

So long, and thanks for all the fish

Submitted by UntimelyRippd on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 4:49pm

so is this what's next ... a trickle growing to a flood of

the same sort of shillilicious Gotta Vote for Hill nonsense that swept through dKos?

why in god's name cannot these people just leave us the fuck alone? how soon before we see essays by people saying they weren't going to vote for HRC, until they read all the mean, sanctimonious, self-righteous anti-HRC responses to the essays by people saying they were going to vote for HRC?

—

Submitted by Anja Geitz on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 6:37pm

I know, right?

It's like having an abusive boyfriend follow us home even after we broke up with them. Blech.

—

There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

Submitted by dkmich on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 4:51pm

Not one comment in this pile of an essay.

Check out their posting/commenting history.
http://caucus99percent.com/user/3787/comment

Probably on a mission from dailykos. They're back to sending friendlies over here to smarten up the DFH. Sabir should have been a clue.

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by NCExile on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 5:13pm

Just like when I found out

Just like when I found out about Santa Claus, there's no going back. Every new release from WikiLeaks just confirms what *Bernie and others have been saying: the corruption is endemic, and we no longer have a functioning democratic government. Hillary is the current leader of making this situation worse and has the backing of the evil cabal that can get it done. My innocence is lost, but I haven't lost my mind (or my conscience for that matter): Jill not Hill.

*His reasons for campaigning for Hillary are his, are unknowable to me beyond his own stated reasons that are remarkably and, if true, sadly like yours. That doesn't change the fact that he was correct while he was still opposing her in the "Primary," which was we now know "primarily" a scam on the part of Hillary, her campaign apparatus, and the compliant, disgusting, ass-kissing, opportunist, lap-dog media. Thanks to them the loony Republicans think they have proof of the existence of their fondest boogey-man, the "liberal" media. They colluded like m-fers all right, but they sure as hell aren't liberal.

Edited to fix spelling error.

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 5:28pm

SHE is not an option!

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 5:34pm

Judging from the Obama Administration...

I think progressives need to be there on November 9th hitting her hard and pressing her letting her know that the things you were forced to support to get past Bernie are now things we expect done, period.

this not only doesn't work, it's a laughably naive statement to make.

Submitted by Hillbilly Dem on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 6:25pm

Amen.

When he took office, one of Obama's first lies was "Go out there and make me do it!". What a myth. What a lie. Make me do it? Horseshit. Just like he decided to sic the dogs on the Occupiers. They got their comeuppance in the form of riot batons when they tried to "make him do it". And Hillary will be better if we press her? Sure. After she checks with Lloyd Blankfein, Sidney Blumenthal, John Podesta and the rest of the usual suspects.

You are right. Once she's in the White House, the thought that anyone from the left could make her do anything is beyond ridiculous. We will be stuck with her and an administration that will make Nixon's look transparent. The only ones who will be able to 'hit her hard and press her' to get things done will be the Repubs and the right. Gawd.

—

"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

Submitted by lotlizard on Thu, 10/13/2016 - 4:50am

And when the Cecily McMillan incident happened at Zuccotti Park,

the response over at GOS was, “Whiner! Just shows how OWS is so ‘white privilege.’ Black people get beaten up and then jailed for assaulting a cop all the time.”

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/cecily-mcmillan-from-zuccotti-pa...

Submitted by Ellen North on Fri, 10/14/2016 - 1:39am

Thanks for the link/details;

Thanks for the link/details; hard to remember among all of the various police violences and injustices committed against peaceful Occupy protesters if I even read much/anything on that particular one...

And at the bottom of the page was a story stating something to the effect of 'Although the election is over, Trump's blow-up isn't'.

You know the general is thoroughly rigged for sure when 'the election is over' for the corporate media at any time before people have actually voted and the votes have been fully counted... but if enough people vote Green to actually win with a non-corporate candidate whose tenure we all can survive, the cheat can be proven, protested and repudiated, internationally as well as by The People.

The stolen Dem nomination should have triggered far more of a response than it did, as it set the stage for this, as did the long history of faked US 'election results' being left to stand as a 'done deal'.

The thief got away with your car - there's nothing left to be done, now; s/he gets to keep it and drive it everywhere - at your expense, and right over your feet if desired. S/He won, even if by crooked hook. All righty...

I think my outrage quota has been over-filled for the night...

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Hillbilly Dem on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 6:28pm

Double post.

—

"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

Submitted by pro left on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 6:37pm

Yep

and when she starts bombing the shit out of the ME and possibly Russia and doing everything else to oppose Bernies platform, we can all get together and tell her to Cut It Out !

Submitted by Lily O Lady on Thu, 10/13/2016 - 12:08pm

She'll be ready to bring us to heel.

—

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Submitted by Sedna on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 5:56pm

Clinton and her crime family?

Fuck them and the Democrat jackass they rode in on. I'm voting for Jill Stein.

—

"So it goes."
Kurt Vonnegut

Submitted by FuturePassed on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 7:10pm

A Bernie supporter!!!

I wondered what all those people over at TOP who were for Bernie until those racist, misogynist Sanders supporters made them change their minds were doing for fun these days.

The war Hillary seems determined to provoke with Russia could ruin your grandson's next birthday party.

the things you were forced to support to get past Bernie are now things we expect done, period.

Right. The 2nd term. I can see her shaking already. That threat worked so well with Obama. He must have worried about the left for five or six seconds before he agreed to a Grand Bargain that would have reduced Social Security and cut Medicare benefits. You know, the bargain that emerged from the rubble of Simpson-Bowles? That's the Simpson-Bowles that we now know Hillary told the bankers was the way we have to go. Somehow I think her "private" voice is a better indication of her future behavior than her "public" voice. With Hillary you get what you pay for. It's one of her few virtues.

Plus it won't be Hillary's fault. Recruiting Republicans to her cause by telling them a vote for Hillary is a vote to save their party isn't doing a lot for down ticket Democrats. The last aggregation of polling data I saw predicted the Republicans have a 2/3 chance of keeping control of the Senate. Their chances in the House are even better. So how dare you hold Hillary responsible for Republican intransigence. Are you fucking retarded?

It's virtually impossible to mount a successful primary challenge against an incumbent president. Whether you win or lose if it's a serious challenge the beneficiary is the candidate of the other party. We'd have a better chance beating Trump in four years.

Submitted by Bollox Ref on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 7:19pm

If all these individuals who like what Sanders and Stein say,

just voted for Sanders and Stein, instead of parroting/following the 'ageless' "they can't win" trope and voting against their interests, Sanders and Stein would win.

What is wrong with these people? If you agree with their stances, vote for them. No voter is an island, there are a lot of people out there that feel the same way. Don't buy into the MSM 24/7 claptrap.

(Edited: Just fed up.)

—

Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Submitted by Crimson Buddha on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 7:18pm

OK, capforfun, I'll bite

You say:

Now it is our job to keep her feet to the fire.

Exactly how do you intend to do this? I hear this "feet to the fire" stuff every election but have yet to hear an actual, practical strategy to do this. Are you going to:

- Write a million dollar check to a super PAC for access?
- Write a sternly worded letter?
- Protest in a free speech zone?
- Complain on a blog?
- Set yourself on fire on the national mall?
- Piss on the Alamo?

Seriously, what does this holding feet to fire entail?

Submitted by Hawkfish on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 10:54pm

Use harsh language maybe?

—

We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Thu, 10/13/2016 - 4:36pm

Bless you for this.

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by Crimson Buddha on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 7:18pm

OK, capforfun, I'll bite

You say:

Now it is our job to keep her feet to the fire.

Exactly how do you intend to do this? I hear this "feet to the fire" stuff every election but have yet to hear an actual, practical strategy to do this. Are you going to:

Seriously, what does this holding feet to fire entail?

Submitted by lizzyh7 on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 7:20pm

You know, at least when I was young and dumb

and voted for St Ronnie the Dim in 1980, I didn't hate him - I freely admit I didn't know enough to despise him but I did not vote to re-elect him either. Why vote for someone you can't stand and in essence condone her behavior? She scares me far more than Trump, and I think she'll win in one way or another. I won't give her that tiny shred of support for her or the Oligarchy or the War Machine in general anymore.

She won't be held to the fire by protests unless they're massive and sustained. And when we go to war in Syria, or maybe Russia if we're really lucky, look for the ready made excuse to ramp up "security" and use whatever means necessary to maintain order. Hell, she'll call all of us super-predators then and those who support her will agree as they really don't want to threaten the system that's working very well for so many of them.

I no longer fear Trump and I do not think he's going to win. Worst case there, if he should win, we'd end up with Pence, which won't be pretty either. Either way, we really are well and truly fucked here, so are you going to just try to enjoy that by voting for someone you hate? At least Trump is somewhat open about his idiotic policies as is Pence. She'll smile in your face while inserting that knife in your back, easy peasy. I'd rather face down an enemy than openly allow one to stab me in the back, while smiling back at her... Jill, not Hill.

—

Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

Submitted by Roy Blakeley on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 10:51pm

Politicians do not respond to protests anymore

Protesting may be worthwhile in that it lets the powers that be know we are paying attention. However protests rarely have legislative outcomes at the national level anymore. The President, Senators and Congresspersons are prescreened stooges for TPTB. A few independent thinkers sneak through, but not enough to make a difference. We need to figure out new strategies. Trying to relive the civil rights movement isn't getting us anywhere.

Submitted by gustogirl on Thu, 10/13/2016 - 2:09pm

I couldn't agree more.

Besides, if the media doesn't pay attention or distorts like they did Occupy, you can almost do your cause more harm than good with a protest.

All I've been able to think of is a tax strike. Hasn't gone over too well. But money seems to be their achilles heel.

Submitted by Ellen North on Fri, 10/14/2016 - 1:51am

... She won't be held to the

... She won't be held to the fire by protests unless they're massive and sustained. And when we go to war in Syria, or maybe Russia if we're really lucky, look for the ready made excuse to ramp up "security" and use whatever means necessary to maintain order. Hell, she'll call all of us super-predators then and those who support her will agree as they really don't want to threaten the system that's working very well for so many of them. ...

Hillary's planning to nuke Russia and a few other-people's-countries where they're capable of militarily defending themselves, rather than being limited to, essentially, guerrilla warfare - they are not suicidal enough to wait to allow the psychopaths the advantage of the first nuclear strike/invasion.

(Reposting this, as it sounds feasible, even if the site doesn't, really.)

Dunno about this site, but this wouldn't be surprising with the Clinton/corporate media lunacy and all.

If the rest of this is true, people around the world - including long-threatened Iran -are preparing to defend themselves against the inimical - and nuclear - threat of a Clinton Presidency, or of any corporate-compliant candidate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui3vbHrgzRk

ALERT, ALERT, ALERT BREAKING NEWS Now In DEFCON 3

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by sojourns on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 7:26pm

Let's not forget, whether Trump is elected or not

chances are he's going to be spending a lot of time being tied up in court. It may not seem like it's sticking but we know how slow the wheels of (cough) justice turn.

—

"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Submitted by pswaterspirit on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 7:44pm

Her blaming Russia

For everything that goes wrong eliminates any chance I would ever even consider her. I spent my childhood during the cold war living in what would have been a red zone in the case of nuclear war. Now she's trying to run about trying to gin up hatred and fear of Russia and making fairly clear she wants to go to war. Thats far more frightening than anything Trump has come up with.

Submitted by TheOtherMaven on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 9:28pm

Yes, fuck that shit

I'm not sure how I survived so many years of stark night terrors, every time a siren went off, every time an airplane flew over - was this it? Was the next - last - thing I saw and heard going to be a nuclear blast?

And THAT WOMAN would drag us back into that hell-horror place?

No! Never! No more!

Fuck Killary and her Pale Horse. She thinks she's the Fourth Horseman of the Apocalypse, but that job is taken, and always has been.

—

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Submitted by Crimson Buddha on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 10:48pm

It literally makes her more dangerous than Trump

Think about it. For a few domestic political points, she is willing to start shit with another nuclear armed world power. That disqualifies her in my opinion.

Submitted by Ellen North on Fri, 10/14/2016 - 2:24am

The fact that she's willing

The fact that she's willing to subvert/forcibly replace democratic government with corporate stooges and invade other people's countries to kill people in order to steal their stuff makes her a monster and a criminal even without the threat of Mutual Assured Destruction. The latter of which will, in very short order, polish off the remains of the already rapidly failing life support system/oxygen suppliers of Earth, btw.

Reposting:

The reduced sunlight of nuclear winter increases the already snowballing ecological die-off/ocean current slowing from current rates of industrial/military pollution/destruction.

http://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/RobockToonSciAmJan2010.pdf

Worry has focused on the U.S. versus Russia, but a regional nuclear war between India and Pakistan could blot out the sun, starving much of the human race

b y a l a n r o b o c k a n d o w e n b r i a n t o o n

Twenty-five years ago international teams of scientists showed that a nuclear war between the U.S. and the Soviet Union
could produce a “nuclear winter.” The smoke from vast fires started by bombs dropped on cities and industrial areas would envelop the planet and absorb so much sunlight that the earth’s surface would get cold, dark and dry, killing plants
worldwide and eliminating our food supply. Surface temperatures would reach winter values in the summer. International discussion about this prediction, fueled largely by astronomer Carl Sagan, forced the leaders of the two superpowers
to confront the possibility that their arms race endangered not just themselves but the entire human race. Countries large and small demanded disarmament.

Nuclear winter became an important factor in ending the nuclear arms race. Looking back later, in 2000, former Soviet Union leader Mikhail S. Gorbachev observed, “Models made by Russian and American scientists showed that a nuclear war would result in a nuclear winter that would be extremely destructive to all life on earth; the knowledge of that was a
great stimulus to us, to people of honor and morality, to act.”
Why discuss this topic now that the cold war has ended? Because as other nations continue to acquire nuclear weapons, smaller, regional nuclear wars could create a similar global catastrophe. ...

...Regional War Threatens the World
By deploying modern computers and modern climate models, the two of us and our colleagues have shown that not only were the ideas of the 1980s correct but the effects would last for at least 10 years, much longer than previously
thought. And by doing calculations that assess decades of time, only now possible with fast, current computers, and by including in our calculations the oceans and the entire atmosphere—also only now possible—we have found that the
smoke from even a regional war would be heated and lofted by the sun and remain suspended in the upper atmosphere for years, continuing to block sunlight and to cool the earth. ...

... volcanic particles remain airborne for about two years, but smoke from nuclear fires would last a decade.

Killing Frosts in Summer
The climatic response to the smoke was surprising. Sunlight was immediately reduced, cooling
the planet to temperatures lower than any experienced for the past 1,000 years. ...

... The models also showed a 10 percent reduction in precipitation worldwide. Precipitation, river flow and soil moisture all decreased because blocking sunlight reduces evaporation and weakens the hydrologic cycle. Drought was largely concentrated in the lower latitudes, however, because global cooling would retard the Hadley air circulation pattern in the tropics, which produces a large fraction of global precipitation. In critical areas such as the Asian monsoon regions,
rainfall dropped by as much as 40 percent. ...

... In addition to the cooling, drying and darkness, extensive ozone depletion would result as the smoke heated the stratosphere; reactions that create and destroy ozone are temperature-dependent. ... ... Ultra-violet radiation on the ground would increase significantly because of the diminished ozone. ...

How many years until oxygen production becomes too thin to maintain healthy function and becomes insufficient to support life, when at current rates of ecological die-off - snowballing far more quickly than was recognized - this stage occurs within decades unless industrial/military pollution/destruction is ended immediately, rather than made unlimited and unrestrained under the TPP and other illegal and unconstitutional Trojan Horse 'trade deals' 'legally' (not!) handing over domestic law in all involved countries - purportedly on the signature and private agreement of a transient public servant, yet - to hostile outside corporate/billionaire powers with their ruthless profiteering and attainment of their fantasy-anticipated maximized future profits - to be drained from the people and the resources of their countries - made global law?

And that's not considering the global effects of radiation, which I imagine those profiting from this sort of thing plan to miss while comfortably sipping champagne On The (frozen) Beach, being the deluded unscientific fat-heads they are. Global famine forms perhaps the least of it.

... Eruptions.
Explosive volcanic eruptions, such as those of Tambora in 1815, Krakatau in 1883 and Pinatubo in 1991 provide several lessons.
The resulting sulfate aerosol clouds that formed in the stratosphere were transported around the
world by winds. The surface temperature plummeted after each eruption in proportion to the thickness of the particulate cloud. After the Pinatubo eruption, the global average surface temperature dropped by about 0.25 degree C. Global precipitation, river flow and soil moisture all decreased. Our models reproduce these effects. ...

Welcome, more drought! And the end of complex/oxygen-dependent life on the planet. Beginning to wonder if the 'lizard people' are geoengineering a methane atmosphere for wealthy aliens... was going to laugh out loud, but don't have any laughter handy at the moment.

Please, vote Green for life, if no Bernie miracle appears as a last-minute save.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by magiamma on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 8:21pm

Shillarious

Thanks everyone for your great comments. Made my day. So much to worry about and then this. Put a smile on my face. lol

—

Stop Climate Change Silence - Start the Conversation

Hot Air Website, Twitter, Facebook

Submitted by WIProgressive on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 8:53pm

I want to vote for Stein.

But might actually vote for Trump. Clinton really jumped in WI poll today and Feinhold dropped. No coattails there. But I have to agree with many comments above Trump less dangerous to the 99% of us than her heinous. And so very many so called Progressives in denial about #Wikileaks emails. I too thank everyone here who sees and speaks the truth.

As others here have said I too have grown tired of constant he bad, she bad diaries. We need to look past the election. It's a done deal. We need to move toward coalescing around a plan for the future.

As the poster said what to do on November 9. Does contacting your legislators really have any impact? This government clearly is not of, by and for the people. So if that is the case, what's our plan?

—

O.k. When is the next meeting for the revolution?
-FuturePassed on Sunday, November 25, 2018 10:22 p.m.

Submitted by Ellen North on Fri, 10/14/2016 - 4:02am

Polls are rigged for Hill,

Polls are rigged for Hill, too. They wouldn't be so panicky if she wasn't too low on actual voters for a cheat to look plausible.

Never thought I'd see the day I'd be using these as sources, but...

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/07/30/exclusive-pat...

Exclusive: Pat Caddell Blasts Reuters’ Back-Rigging Polls to Show Clinton Winning

by Neil W. McCabe30 Jul 2016Charleston, S.C

Speaking exclusively to Breitbart News, political polling pioneer Pat Caddell said the Reuters news service was guilty of an unprecedented act of professional malpractice after it announced Friday it has dropped the “Neither” option from their presidential campaign tracking polls and then went back and reconfigured previously released polls to present different results with a reinterpretation of the “Neither” responses in those polls.

“This comes as close as I have ever seen to cooking the results,” said the legendary pollster and political consultant. “I suppose you can get away with it in polling because there are no laws. But, if this was accounting, they would put them in jail.” ...

“The looks to me, are far as I can indicate, they have merely decided to go back and revise their numbers in a formula that removes voters or allocates them–I am not sure how they are doing this–proportionately,” he said. ...

... “What they have done is unprecedented, he said. “They have now gone back and changed their results.” ...

... The propaganda polls are actually the opposite of poll-polls, he said. Instead of figuring out what public opinion reality is, the propaganda polls are created to change existing public opinion reality. ...

https://therealstrategy.com/proof-new-polls-rigged-hillary-losing-7/

Hard Proof! New Polls Rigged – Hillary Still Losing by 7 Points
August 8, 2016 Lestado Codicus

Reuters is now rigging new polls to put Hillary ahead.
New Polls rigged by taking sample of 11% more Democrats to Skew Results.

New Polls rigged to make Hillary Clinton’s landslide defeat look like a win.

The new polls show that Hillary Clinton is ahead! But its only because the polling system is purposefully being rigged by the Establishment. See for yourself. ...

They don't ever seem to really want to actually mention anyone (unless dismissively) other than the corporate party candidates, unless this is unavoidable from time to time - but the 'neither' option left off is far more likely to cut out Jill voters (or unfortunately, those of the TPP/corporate-coup-supporting Libertarian) than any Trump voters - and why would a Trump voter have to 'lie' to a pollster, (an obvious excuse for funny-but-not-in-a-good-way vote counts in rigged elections, that being why exit polls were first 'adjusted' to riggable machine counts and then dropped by the corporate media, claiming that tons of voters were 'lying' about their choices, rather than that the votes were being altered to suit TPTB) rather than just say 'sorry' and hang up if they preferred not to say anything?)

Indies form at least 40% of the voters, compared to, it seems around 20-odd-ish percent? (someone please correct me if/where I'm wrong - very tired and after 3 AM here,) for each of the corporate parties - and if neither of the two evils is being voted for by a high number of people, then it kinda spoils the 'Quick, vote for the not-Trump candidate' message for (dwindling) Hillary votes, doesn't it?

And I strongly suspect that the Repubs/right-wing media sources are very likely being presented as being more sane/factual than the Dems (when they've been utterly lunatic for how long?) during this electoral scam to rehabilitate their image... although Trump (not a 'real' Republican politician and hence dissociated from them) is evidently a Clinton scarecrow at least originally intended to herd voters to Clinton.

This comes down to the corporate/billionaire donors the parties have been competing for and the prize of corporate administration under the corporate coup, at least until too many people see through this scam and realize what's been done to them and claimed as a 'legal' corporate theft of their democracy/law, country, rights and lives, as with the banks 'legally' stealing from both taxpayers and depositors in the US.

Edit to add a quote from a Jill Stein email:

... The C-SPAN interview is just one of dozens of media interviews and appearances the Stein/Baraka team is earning these days. With every national interview, Jill and Ajamu's platform of bold, forward thinking Green ideas finds an audience, and helps grow the movement.

Over 8,000 people watched C-SPAN live, and as of Wednesday night, the program had over 312,000 total views plus 10,000 shares overall on social media!

By way of comparison, Gary Johnson—who had the spot with C-SPAN the hour before Jill and Ajamu came on—got only 4,100 people watching live, with 73,100 total views on Wednesday, and only 1000 shares on social media. This is why he’s scared to debate Jill! Just look at the difference in those numbers! The “enthusiasm gap” is just astounding. ...

This is why the Dems don't want to risk a Bernie landslide repeat they'd have to cover up again - Jill has far more support, even with the media blackout, than they'd like to admit, and far more than does the TPP-supporting Libertarian.

And edited to add the forgotten block-quotes; should have been in bed hours ago, just been too tired to crawl there, lol.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by jwa13 on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 9:10pm

I also hate The $hill, but I am NOT voting for her --

for many of the same reasons you stated right up front in your post. Good luck with your choice --

BTW, if you still are hanging out with us lowlifes in a year or two, I plan to pose the question --

"... so, how's The $hill workin' out for ya??"

—

When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.

Submitted by mhagle on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 9:22pm

Wow . . . didn't know

you had that position . . .

My conscience cannot allow me to vote for anyone other than Jill Stein. Her policies and integrity are pure.

—

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

Submitted by Thaumlord-Exelbirth on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 11:35pm

Droll

"Trump's a crazy MOFO" isn't a compelling reason to vote for Hillary, who is not just a crazy person, but has actual effectiveness at being one. And that lame argument at keeping her sticking to progressive issues. You plan on holding that 2nd term over her head? And what, vote 3rd party when her opponent is someone like Ted Cruz? Yeah, I'm sure you'll be eager to risk letting someone who wants to turn the nation into a christian theocratic dictatorship and who is eager to nuke places like Iran out of existence into the white house, right?

Sorry, but this is the best chance we've had in 40 years to build an effective 3rd party option to the establishment party wings, and that will only happen if people vote for the 3rd party right now. The "we'll get the progressive candidate next time" strategy is a 40 year failure.

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Thu, 10/13/2016 - 8:58pm

Free Beer Tomorrow!

Sorry, but this is the best chance we've had in 40 years to build an effective 3rd party option to the establishment party wings, and that will only happen if people vote for the 3rd party right now. The "we'll get the progressive candidate next time" strategy is a 40 year failure.

It's the same thing as the "Free Beer Tomorrow" sign in some bars or the Second Coming of Christ in fundamentalist Christianity. It's always tomorrow, never today. It's just to keep the rubes in line, nothing else.

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by Anja Geitz on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 11:50pm