I'm getting confused again

It happens.

Every since I was 12, boys/men commented on women's looks.
They still do. Listen to a RAP song recently? But of course that's okay.

All of a sudden that is not allowed for some reason.

Now, DJT has been caught from a story from 2005.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-recorded-having-extremely-...

What about Billy Jeff?

When did it happen that boys/men cannot appreciate good looking women?

When did women stop wearing attractive clothes to attract men? ( I know that is so misogynist of me, yet the clothes are being chosen. Been to a PROM lately? No? Then stfu.).

I thought the liberation of the 60's and 70's was to let women be as sexually predatory as men? That's wrong?

I apologize to all women for admiring their beauty...

I'm so confused.

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edg's picture

Are you admitting publicly that you're attracted to good looking women? Shame on you!! It's no longer socially acceptable. Unless you're Bill Clinton, who complained about only having sex with 2,000 women when he found out that Wilt Chamberlain had had more.

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Shahryar's picture

even when the Grateful Dead started up I was just never really into them. And now, 50 years later they keep popping up all over the place. Birthday parties, guitar get-togethers, caucus essays...it's too much!

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like the Trumpster for these past forty years, at least. Every day. At work. On the street. Even in the public library for heavens sake!

It is what it is. Both ways. I decided years ago, me not being beautiful or even attractive, about #2 on that infamous 1-10 scale on a good day, I was not going to poison my life with envy or resentment, but neither was I going to let any clueless guy type tell me how to live my life. I don't dislike Trump or his male cohorts, they do have their qualities, but neither do I respect them.

There has been a certain amount of amusement to be had listening to news babes pretend that they didn't get their jobs because of looks.

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Mary Bennett

talked like that amongst themselves. I always thought a lot of it was just bragging that they would never dare to (or probably even want to) act on.

It seems to be a subculture thing - "locker-room jock stuff." Pretty silly.

Oh, shock! Eek!

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have colorful feathers, some massive horns, some superior size, or strength, or visible sexual attributes to attract the opposite sex. Others howl louder, squawk more, some whistle a more seductive song. Power, and influence have always garnered a greater opportunity to procreate. Just because Donald Trump is an asshat doesn't change the fact that he is correct in what he said...Sometimes though, there are things best left unsaid, regardless of the truth of the matter.

Every powerful man in history has had more opportunity to pass along his genes than us common meek, subservient fellows. Read of Solomon, David, others in the Bible. Consider the Mormon religion, the harems, concubines, multiple wives of Chieftains, Kings, Presidents, etc.

Ladies... don't ask what goes on in between a man's ears...you won't like a lot of what he may tell you...if he is an honest man. Most of us know we cannot, should not, publicly speak of our instinctive drive and desires. It is called having a conscience, and the strength to control it.

It is sad that reality can be so frightening, so demeaning, so commonplace. A man with the power and influence to lead our nation should be able to exercise restraint, and filter things between his brains and his mouth, but that goes without saying. ...nowadays our society needs this constant stream of political pornography to justify the propaganda from the Duopoly

.

So much faux outrage over the reality of the human male, and his hormones.

Before you call me a pig, remember that Monica saved the Blue Dress.... I gotta believe that she is not terribly ashamed of giving the POTUS a blow job in the WhiteHouse, nor should she be. Women have desires, fantasies, and talk dirty in private too!!!

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Grabbing a woman in the p%##€ is sexual assault. That is not confusing in the least.

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Shockwave's picture

What the Donald said is indefensible.

The guy is a sexual predator. Ask Megyn Kelly, ask the Venezuelan Miss Universe, ask Rosie O'Donnell, ask The Apprentice women, etc.

I met him once and he was disgusting. If I meet him again I'll do a citizens arrest.

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The political revolution continues

jwa13's picture

when I am rooting for a Faux "News" presenter for actually telling the truth.

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When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.

He said he "could" and they would "let" him because he was rich and famous. Don't make me defend Trump for something as crude and vulgar as this.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

I an not making you do anything , you are doing a fine job on your own

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Thereby showing what extreme abuses of power he already inflicts on those perceived as vulnerable.

Thereby making him the Greater Evil to herd terrorized and propagandized voters to Hillary?

Funny how he keeps getting scarier and scarier the more voters get to know of the Clinton's and Hill's numbers drop and drop...

Not that I don't think he's a sociopathic con-man and just as grossly unsuitable for any public service position as Clinton.

Or that I think he ought to get his grabbing arm and slimy mouth back in the same condition they were before shoving them where they weren't wanted.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Shahryar's picture

I feel bad for women on this subject. As EdMass says "ever since I was 12..." and that's about right. It makes sense when the hormones kick in for boys to say stupid stuff like this. I don't think I've ever said anything quite like what Trump says in this article...close enough, though. But like I said, when I was 12.

I assume men say incredibly obnoxious stuff to women and harass women beyond my imagination. It always makes me feel like something must have happened in a woman's life if I pass her on the street and she avoids looking at me. Because I think it's odd to pretend a person isn't there, see. So I'm ready to nod or smile as a way of saying "nice day, no worries here".

Meanwhile the idea of "rating" women (or men) is absurd. Would we rate trees? Birds? It's back to being 12 again.

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jwa13's picture

and have not been silent. The occurrences make me angry at the "boyz", and saddened/embarrassed for the women.

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When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.

Wink's picture

Or, "nice day... " Rarely do I get a response. Mostly eyes forward, keep moving, like they never saw me, let alone heard me, lest... lest their response (hello... , yes it is... ) be interpreted by the male that dared address her (yours truly) as an invitation to her lady parts. I find that sad.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

riverlover's picture

I most certainly have not, since I was 18. And OMG, my cousin is accompanying her husband this weekend to his 50th HS class reunion, Troy, MI. Talk about long sticks...

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Cachola's picture

We all know Trump is a pig but I question and resent his tape or convo being all over tao distract us when people should be talking about all the leaks including Hillary's speeches to Wall St. (or parts thereof)

Or just this morning my Hillary loving bff posting a Wall Street Journal article about the Donald making donations to political candidates. Oh, the outrage! but ignoring the gazillions the Clintons have made through their corruption and the influence they have peddled.

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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

"Trump hates women". The media is helping her. Wouldn't be surprised if the Clinton campaign had the tape, which is why they decided to make him and women an issue. The tape was the crowning touch, they needed a lead up.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Hillary is a lying, corrupt, war monger.

Excerpts of Hillary Clinton's WS speeches are finally getting leaked. Intercept has it here.

She has public and private speak. Is anyone surprised about this? Support trade, Simpson-Bowles, raising the age for SS, and knows she's out of touch because of her "good fortune". Afterall, isn't making a fortune why everyone comes to Washington?

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Shahryar's picture

First, she doesn't understand that there's a conflict of interest.

Clinton agreed with the comment and complained about ethics rules that require officials to divest from certain assets before entering government. “There is such a bias against people who have led successful and/or complicated lives,” Clinton said.

Sell off whatever is going to be a problem, put the money in the bank, deal with reinvesting after you're out of office. That's not hard.

Now, what she apparently does understand.

“If you look at the single-payer systems, like Scandinavia, Canada, and elsewhere, they can get costs down because, you know, although their care, according to statistics, overall is as good or better on primary care"

yes, it would have hurt her in the primary. No, it doesn't matter now.

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Hillbilly Dem's picture

Right. On. The. Money.

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"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

ggersh's picture

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I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

elenacarlena's picture

disagree. Ratings and comparisons are not okay. Disrespecting because of less than stellar looks, not okay.

Some called Trump's talk "lewd" when it was more than that. Sexual words don't bother me, although some will think it lacks class, making him unfit, as if he weren't unfit already.

But he talked about grabbing women's pussies (I'm assuming I don't have to star that here?) and kissing them without permission. That's sexual assault.

That's not "appreciating" good-looking women because I guarantee you women don't want his sleazoid tiny hands anywhere near their private spaces.

Imagine if an old woman you were completely unattracted to grabbed your crotch and forced her tongue in your mouth.

Such as this woman.

Donald Trumps mother Mary Trump 2[1]_0.jpg
Mary Trump

Still confused?

As for Billy Jeff, two wrongs don't make a right. And Trump being forced out won't give Hill the win; Pence will continue to run, if they don't bring back Ted Cruz.

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One of my coworkers got reprimanded for looking a bit too long at a woman who took offense. So our shop steward asked what was an acceptable length of time to look. The reply was: "Five seconds should be more than enough to register a woman's looks." So that has become the unoficial standard, not that it will keep you out of trouble if a woman decides to complain. After all, she is always correct and we men always lie.

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

elenacarlena's picture

If you're making her uncomfortable, you're looking too long at the wrong places. Another no-no is "elevator eyes," where you look all up and down her body.

If she looks at you, it's time to look away!

If I like your looks, I'm not going to stare at your crotch nor stare at your broad shoulders nor stare into your eyes until you squirm uncomfortably. A little glance here and there is enough.

It's not that women are always right and men always wrong. It is perhaps that men have more of a tendency to be visually aggressive? Or why would your gaze linger? Especially if you know you're making her uncomfortable?

I doubt we're going to resolve this tonight. But these are my thoughts, FWIW.

I think if you are caught staring and she says, "Cut it out, you're making me uncomfortable," it would be reasonable to respond, "Sorry, I couldn't help it, I think you're so beautiful. But I'll try not to look any further. I didn't mean to make you uncomfortable." That should be the end of it - as long as you truly don't look any further! As in gazing or staring, that is. Of course you have to glance at her every once in a while for work interaction purposes.

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I just don't look once I get close. I can tell is she's attractive long before I enter her space - then I put on the thousand yard stare and ignore her.

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

discussing things our parents should have taught us when we were 10, ignoring the most disastrous election in a century...hoping for a Pence, or Cruz to step in!!!WTF is wrong with us??Hillary Clinton is going to steal this election...lock, stock and barrel...and we are thinking with our little heads, like dogs in heat.

Is this what we, as a nation, have devolved too? How utterly sad and despicable we must appear to the rest of the world.

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Late Again's picture

tolerated at all. Looking at a woman for more than a few seconds is sufficient to get one kicked off the job, let alone catcalling. That would definitely get a man fired outright, not just kicked off a job site.

Not that my husband would ever do that. He's an honorable and decent man who is just as appalled as I am at Trump’s remarks. Saying 'men will be men' implies that all men are animals with no self-control and insults every man who would never dream of treating a woman this way.

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"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained." - Mark Twain

solublefish's picture

Pun not intended.

What's happening here is easily explained from a communications perspective. Yes, hetero men are quite definitely attracted to women - as gay men are attracted to men, gay women to women etc down the line. And perhaps there are a few among us who are truly not attracted to any other - doubtless they too will one day have their own letter in the Great Acronym of Equality - and they deserve to.

Anyway, I guarantee that sexual attraction is real and prevalent. And I am willing to bet my many millions of monopoly dollars that even Reince Priebus gets it on for something or someone out there. Ergo, as thunder follows lightning, I guarantee that all such groups have their own private banter about their opposites, in which they confide their desire for their shared other in an especially lude and crude manner, which speaks to their shared lust, of course, as it should.

Note that this language is a private language of selfish desire. It is not meant to be uttered in public - nor should it be. Because we all understand that we must conduct ourselves differently in public than we do in private, on matters of sex. I think everyone here can readily understand that, yes?

So what has happened here is that the private language of two known and identifiable hetero males has been dragged into the PUBLIC presence, where it does not belong. And other individuals have been asked - also in public - whether they approve. Well, of course they are going to say No - as they should - because they are speaking/acting in public, and that is what is expected in public. But when Reince - or you or I - go out with our buddies tonight, it is not completely unlikely that we will be saying the same kinds of things. Maybe not even about sex: maybe about the annoying habits of our spouse, or maybe about some other thing that is, by civil consensus, not to be uttered in public. What is no foul in private can be the very epitome of wrong in public.

That said, I do think The Donald's attitude was pretty classically sexist. To regard one's opposite as attractive and desirable is perfectly normal. But to regard that person as nothing other than an instrument of one's own designs suggests a rather underdeveloped sense of humanity.

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Alex Ocana's picture

! First, I haven't been following Trump or Eecchh Clinton or the election for awhile. I have actually never heard more than maybe 20 seconds of Trump except at the debates, which i tuned into for entertainment value to watch them blast each other. I can't listen to Eecchh without feeling like punching a wall, so I tune her out... I did have a great time watching all her eye tics and jerky head movements, wide mouthed cackling, and collapsing without the sound. Last debate i figured if she collapsed I could pick it up on you-tube later and feel a bit cheered up.

Now.. I don't know what Trump said in the latest sexist remark, or the context he said it in. I can say that working with an all male Afro-Caribbean construction crew that nothing whatsoever, as much as I don't like it, would shock me. I myself, in such an ambient, can come up with some funny word play on "hoes". Although its more likely I say something like, "If yo ho hear u talkin this shit she gonna chop yo fuckin dick head off." (If she can find d tiny thing).

But, as a anarchist participative parent of three daughters (all grown), I can tell you that when they were like eleven to thirteen they had some juicy shit to say about boys (after 13 or so that they didn't want me around in their conversations, no problem). My little girly voice not working so I won't even try a truth or dare quip.

LOL, I am not going to tune into what Trump said... or what Eecchh said about what Trump said, or about what the WAPO says about what Trump said about what Eecchh said about what Trump said about what nasty Bill said. I don't give a flying fuck what any of them say. They can all dress up in leather studded bikinis and squat on a spiked chromium dildo and post it on porntube and I still won't watch it. Although i would pay a fair bit for watching them compete in wet teeshirt wrestling.

Hope this is on topic.

Note in edit: I agree with solublefish but have a different way of saying it.

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From the Light House.

TaZsa's picture

Does this really surprise/offend people? Speaking as a woman who has had her ass grabbed by a man on the street, in Paris circa 1992, it happened in public and I was able to get away, there were lots of people around. Thank the gods I've never been raped and now I'm beyond the age of sexual assault...mostly I guess, it can always happen to a woman or a man.

It's power. Trump is an asshole and most men talk like this. Sex talk like this is a peacock strutting, hardly on the level of Killery's power plays. I still hold out hope that Hillary will be exposed before the election and go up in flames or something.

One of my first experiences in Paris was on my way to work at the Lido, on the Champs de Lysees. I took the metro and was walking with my dance bag on my shoulder down the famous Boulevard. Cafes all along and a mad rush of people, I heard a person saying "Excuse me, Excuse me" The street was full of people, but the person was trying to get my attention. I turned towards the voice and he got right in my face and said "I want to fuck your pussy!" I was horrified, but just kept walking forward in the virtual crush of people and he was gone. I soon learned to not react to English words on the street and pretend to be French. Or English, anything but American.

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I have been groped by women on several ocassions. My response was immediate, and made a point that "if I did that to you ( the woman groping me) you would have every right to deck me"....I was told I have an "attitude problem". This sort of rude behavior is not a one way street.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

Bookmarked for later use "on down the road"....

[video:https://youtu.be/WtDd5htZ_A8 width:480 height:360]

(n.b.: Shitty video but the best audio of this song I could find on YT. The Dead are on record supporting this preference.)

Smile

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Shahryar's picture

hmmph

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To put things in perspective, the Hillary campaign is already running a TV spot which implies Trump is going to kill us all with nuclear weapons. But Hillary is worried that after triggering the apocalypse Trump might make a crude remark about women? Just like Bill. Men are all the same!

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

All men are not the same. Most men have made comments about women to other men that they would find excruciatingly embarrassing if they'd been released on video. I imagine the same is true for more than a few women.

But the conduct about which Trump brags goes far beyond vulgar comments. How many women have you forced into a kiss? How many have you groped? The conduct of which Donald Trump appears to be proud is sexual assault in civilized states.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

The whole election is a comedy routine. It was so dark, I didn't get it at first.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

lotlizard's picture

Death from Washington, it’s Tuesday Night (kill list pink mist) . . .

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Hillary's real concern is, of course, that it's her interrogative to trigger the apocalypse - the first woman inhuman to do so. Wanna bet she thinks she'll make a 'large' fortune from radioactive slag sales to the Vogons?

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Bollox Ref's picture

Blokes appreciate blokespeak.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

thanatokephaloides's picture

It is this: Permissible expression of sexual desire needs to be standardized throughout Western society. And this standard needs to be the same, for everyone. Once expressed, then, the iron rule needs to be: NO means NO. And anyone using unacceptable expressions with those with whom they aren't already intimate need to be treated as the boorish pariahs they should be. One should be able to be sexually attracted to another, and let the other one know it, without being offensive or rude. We just have to agree on what means are appropriate, and what means are demeaning; encourage use of the former, and utterly ban the latter.

(n.b.: Nastarana's cat-caller deserves several worse fates IMHO; but I will not denigrate c99p by describing them.)

So long as a given expression of sexual desire is acceptable when one person does it, and unacceptable when another does so, problems such as the ones discussed in this essay will continue to exist. And the idea that "No really just means keep trying" needs to be completely and totally extirpated from humanity as a whole, yesterday.

Before I forget, here's a Grateful Dead video. Shahryar doesn't need to watch it; he has my permission to ignore it. (And it should NOT be an autoplayer, either!) But I have a reputation to uphold (please remember what thanatokephaloides means!).

[video:https://youtu.be/K9fF8yptn8E width:480 height:360]

Also: EdMass: I have listened to cRap songs where men "sang" about women they desired. Please do remember that the "c" in "cRap" might be silent and even unprinted, but it's still there -- and ought to be.

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Shahryar's picture

not my favorite but I'm thrilled when anybody really likes any music. So what if it's not my taste?

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thanatokephaloides's picture

And I support your music, whatsoever it might be, as long as it isn't the kind of cRap that EdMass was talking about! (And I'm pretty damn sure it isn't!)

And do please enjoy it in full peace and love, saith this Dead head (thanatos + kephalos + -oides suf.)

Smile Good Drinks

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

CS in AZ's picture

He talked about "grabbing them in the pussy" and "just kissing them" without waiting for permission, as in forcing his disgusting lips and tongue onto a woman who hasn't agreed to be kissed and "grabbing" their private parts.

Are you in all seriousness even slightly defending this? Sick.

Of course Billy Jeff is also a sexual predator, and his wife Hillary defended him and attacked his victims. I am well aware of that.

But *please* do not try to normalize what Trump said. It's beyond disgusting. He should prosecuted for sexual assault. (And so should Bill Clinton.)

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

as not only a sexist thing to say--but a profoundly weird thing to say?

If a man came up to me and said "I'm gonna grab you in the pussy" I think my first reaction would be a blank stare.

When did "grabbing pussy" even become a thing? No, don't answer that....

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

CS in AZ's picture

I just read the article about this less than an hour ago -- crazy day with very sick dog on my hands -- and I can't even say I'm shocked at Trump being this much of an asshole or doing this to women, it's obvious he's a monster when it comes to treatment of women. The only thing I feel shocked about at this point is reading someone here saying "eh, what's the big deal" and acting like this is perfectly a-okay. No. It isn't. And my dog is probably not going to make it, so I'm really not in the mood to tolerate bullshit. My husband has been sitting with him in the waiting room at the emergency vet for over two hours now. I came here for a distraction while I wait, and read this? Holy hell, no... just no.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

I hope my reaction would be to punch him in the face

I've said "Trump is a Chump!" for far and away longer than he's been running for public office.

I just had no idea how much of a chump he was until some of this crap came out. After all, I tended to avoid exposure up until this farce of a Presidential election.

Thank Cat Jill Stein's on my State's ballot!

Smile

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

thanatokephaloides's picture

And my dog is probably not going to make it, so I'm really not in the mood to tolerate bullshit. My husband has been sitting with him in the waiting room at the emergency vet for over two hours now.

Sending peaceful and loving thoughts to all three of you. I know what it's like to lose an animal ally and I also know I will face it again.

Sad

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

I've been trying to develop an opinion since I heard about the tape. On one hand, I find it disgusting. But on the other, I resent Hillary saying anything, as it was her husband (who she defended and attacked the women involved) who normalized TMI in politics. I could have gone my whole life without the picture of Bill Clinton inserting a cigar into the vagina of a woman less than half his age. And then all the other sex in the White House was exposed, much to my dismay.

Let's see, what bothers me most? One candidate is a sexual predator and one is a war monger who supposedly loves children so much she's willing to send them back to their country of origin to be killed. Or throw them off welfare so they can be homeless and hungry.

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riverlover's picture

Plus a distinction that the woman was married, like it was some other class of woman. His wives must get paid well.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

joe shikspack's picture

appreciation and assault.

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young woman (an employee!) for sex. The gulf between POTUS and an intern is as huge as it gets.
As my wife says "Why didn't she divorce him?"

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.