Sanders Says Clinton Comments in Leaked Audio 'Absolutely Correct'
Bernie Sanders told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos that Hillary Clinton was “absolutely correct” when she said many of his supporters were living in their parents’ basements and struggling to find jobs.
“During the campaign we had our differences, but what she was saying there was absolutely correct,” Sanders said during an interview Sunday morning in response to the newly leaked audio of Clinton talking about Sanders’ supporters during a private fundraiser in February.
“You have millions of young people, many of whom took out loans in order to go to college, hoping to go out and get decent-paying jobs and they are unable to do that,” said Sanders, who endorsed Clinton two months ago. “And yes, they do want a political revolution. They want to transform this society.”
The interview on ABC’s “This Week” was Sanders’ first response to the audio that was trending on social media over the weekend, although some of his staff had taken to Twitter to defend Clinton.
Link is below in the event you can't tell.
This old man is standing on my last nerve
***
I don't think I'll participate much in the abomination of a post. As far as I'm concerned, to take insults to his supporters and try to turn them into a plus for that awful woman is going to fucking far. I'm too 'miffed' to be civil right now.
Comments
Well, when I see a guy in the grip of something like this:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSe8n2tUKOo]
I don't put a lot of credence in anything he says.
Anyway, he told us not to listen to him on this subject. Jane Sanders even reminded us of that by recently Tweeting this:
http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/why-did-jane-sanders-tweet-retweet-bernie-...
For about the last 4-5 weeks, everything coming out of Bernie's mouth has sounded to me like "Argle bargle. Argle. Bargle Bargle. Argle bargle Balloooo! Bargle Trump bargle argle apocalypse bargle bargle argle bargle."
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Hope the video posts too
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Sanders at his disingenuous best. Playing BOTH ends against the
'center'.
Don't do as I do, do as I...wait. What he's doing and what he's saying are the same things.
Vote for Shillary.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
roles to play
occupy wall street had a role to play. Bernie had a role to play. I will forever be grateful to both.
OMG! All he is saying is, "Don't be an obedient sheeple."
Inform yourself and make up your own mind--not just in this general, but always. Duh. That's what any voter should do, always.
Is the idea among a number of this board that he is now campaigning for Hillary, urging people to vote for her, while relying that millions of his primary voters will know he's only faking because of this video? What a *%$&ing stupid, dangerous game that would be for the nation and the world and everyone in it! What a horrible thing to impute to him!
If I thought that was really his m.o., I'd want him tarred and feathered, maybe hung (and not in a good way). As it is, I'm merely disappointed--my bad--should have learned in 2009-- and find Sanders no longer relevant to seeking to create real change, if anything still can.
changeling
I still think this needs to become a viral meme:
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Why? Are we going for change or for keeping Sanders the focus?
We have to get out of hero worship mode.
Why are we taking mention of
Why are we taking mention of vastly increased poverty among the 99% as an insult, the way the Greeds do? Have we come to believe, as they do, that if we were worth anything, we'd be worth real money?
The number of people who can't afford their own roof on pathetic incomes and who have been stuck, as adults, living under their parents roofs (and vice versa) has increased drastically because the Greeds suck everything up - a circumstance which the Clinton's have facilitated, while Hillary believes that a living wage/pension for the 'common wo/man' is 'simply not feasible'.
Hillary's OK with the situation; Bernie - who's been publicizing/criticizing this austerity-for-us-to-enrich-the-few-draining-us all along - isn't, and neither are the rest of us.
When has Bernie ever not talked economics and pushed for fair economic treatment all round?
Clinton may think of mentioning the high rate of citizen poverty as a put-down, because she's a psychopath - Bernie has always done so because it needs to be fixed and a living wage achieved for all. The billionaires can get by on a little less, after all.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Because of the classic insult "living in his mom's basement,"
used to describe the ultimate contemporary American loser, and used often enough to have been a cliche a decade ago.
Not "forced, by circumstances out of his control to live with his parents (forced, by age, disability and/or by lack of jobs my husband sent out of the country) or forced by circumstances out of his control to live in his parents' home, but living in his parents' basement.
Oh, and poverty is not limited to Sanders' supporters, either, nor are all Sanders' supporters any more poor than any other segment of Millennials.
Yes, Bernie tried to spin Hillary's words as best he could, but it was derisive.
So Bernie's role in the movement is over
He has failed to convert his campaign into something that's meaningful and ongoing, and he's trapped in his role of Clinton enabler. Not sure what threats or what deal he's operating under, but his conduct has shown that he's no longer the spokesman of the movement he started.
It's probably a waste of time being angry at him. We need to figure out what to do and how to do it once this shameful election farce has ended.
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Not just of time, but of energy
It's just sad.
I do not believe
Bernie started the movement. It has been ongoing since Obama's campaign of false empty pocket of hope and bottom up change. He may have given voice to the movement in the partisan political arena but he did not start anything. Personally I agree with Big Al Chris Hedges on Bernie he was a ringer and a sheep dog put in to mitigate the growing discontent with the Godawful New Democrat's who own and run the party. His intentions may have been sincere but his record shows that he is a firm believer in the duopoly he ranted about.
His positions on 'Foreign Policy' were quite clear from the beginning. Perhaps he thinks that 'victories for compromise' are all that's possible. Whatever has motivated him it's nothing I want anything to do with. It's not a movement it's a pack of double speak lies, was it always a lie who knows? He's a pol, not a political revolutionary.
I do agree he's no longer a spokesman for anything other then the odious New Democratic party and their horrific 'way forward'. He is not trapped in anything that was/ is not his own decision to throw his lot and ours into 'caucusing' with the Democrat's. Perhaps like Russ Fiengold (Mr. Progressive Patriot) he feels it's too hard for the people to have to face the 'inevitable' powers that be we are dealing with.
As you can see I do not believe that the evil Clinton's physically threatened him or his family. Maybe he does want to continue in his political DC kabuki career and good luck if that's the deal he cut.. I just don't care. Then again I do not place my faith or trust in pols or 'leaders' anymore no matter what they say. I'm back to my radical roots. If they are not part of the solution they are part of the problem or some such thing. 'don't follow leader's, watch the parking meters'.
We do need to figure out what to do. The good news is that the numbers and movements of people who are seeing what really going on are growing and they are not going to stop as it's going to be worse. So I agree let it go but on the other hand don't cling to pols or bogus parties for the answer. Us not them and he is them always has been. I hope people will realize that they do have power and that it does not lay within the duopoly which is a shameful farce of electoral politics and democracy.
I think the movement is stronger then Bernie or any pol or party. People globally are going to have to form coalitions and come together in solidarity to stop this global 1% horror show. I'm not angry at Bernie or any pol it is a waste of time. However it seems to me that looking for political leaders at this point is also a waste of time. The leaders we need will come out of the movement not from the rigged broken system that would have us believe we have no other choices and extorts our consent to be governed with fear.
I both agree and disagree with this comment
First, this movement had been growing for some time prior to this Presidential campaign. Occupy was the first national appearance of it in the streets. It was festering out of discontent with the system that is rigged against the people. IMO, Occupy was a critical component leading to the Sanders candidacy.
But here is where we diverge in opinion. I do not believe Bernie entered this campaign as a ringer or a sheepdog, regardless of the final outcome. I still believe that Bernie was threatened some how. The Clintons play very dirty politics and are ruthless in their quest for power. Regardless, Bernie's campaign still had a lot of positive impacts, most notably giving a very public voice to the vast discontent of most Americans and for exposing the corruption of the Democratic party and the political process.
And I completely agree with this statement:
I have posted here and elsewhere on numerous occasions that all political change results from social movements. That was never popular over at the other place, but it is true. Politicians are guardians of the status quo and only move when forced by the people and it often takes a long time to move them.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
This!
Right on the money, gulfgal!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
And do you believe she had Vince Foster killed as well?
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Not sure on that one.
After all, we're not dealing in the realms of proof here, but of the faintest gleanable evidence.
What we know is that Bernie Sanders and Keith Olbermann were entirely correct in their assaults against Hillary Clinton and her klan when they put them out there; yet, here they are now, giving her their full-throated adulation and asking us to vote for her.
The facts Mr. Olbermann and Senator Sanders brought up earlier, as to why Hillary Clinton shouldn't even be elected dogcatcher much less President, did not go away. They are still as valid as they were the second these gentlemen brought them up.
So this brings a question to the fore: Why? Why did these men abandon the cause for which they fought so bravely and strongly? Only some sort of threat -- a perception of far worse evils than those which a Clinton Presidency would bring -- is really capable of breaking people like these men were rather obviously broken. I can't think of any other explanation which fits the readily observed facts.
Can you?
Oh, and by the way: Nothing about a Trump Presidency qualifies here. We survived W, we can survive another right-wing bonehead.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Of course I can suggest another motive. Partisan politics.
And the 'first female president. And the continued access TPTB.
Mr. Olbermanm found out before that if he didn't get in line, he'd be cut out by the network and TPTB. So he's gonna play nice now.
The remark about Foster was sarcasm.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Bernie knew and (more
Bernie knew and (more diplomatically) stated his supporters couldn't be conned into voting for evil and, as has been pointed out, specifically said publicly that if he ever told or appeared to tell anyone who to vote for, that they shouldn't do it. And he keeps telling people that Hillary understands what needs to be done, not that she'll do any of it, or cares. Note his phrasing and do remember that the corporate (and now much of the once-progressive) press not only has been known to misquote/misrepresent people, etc., but to outright lie.
Have we forgotten such as the media claims even of video purportedly of Bernie delegates violently hurling chairs and epithets but showing nothing of the sort, since it never happened?
TPTB know Bernie is still in line, if anything happens to Hillary, to step in and start throwing Presidential democratic wrenches into the gears of the global machine set to grind us all to paste - but if enough of his support can be killed off, then we've lost that chance. So they ever so typically slime the honest, caring candidate despite his life-long record.
Where the Clinton/corporate slime can be smelt, it can be identified, and it's nothing like the clean smell of The Bern.
Not sure what's with people falling for/in with the PR destruction of Bernie's character; you'd think we'd know better by now...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Honestly?
At this point, I wouldn't put it past her.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I agree with most of this
I agree that Bernie's primary campaign was neither the beginning nor the end of anything. I agree in thinking that Bernie went into his campaign with the primary aim of changing politics, whatever his personal ambitions might or might not have been. And I agree that a social movement is needed to make real change happen. That social movement is still coalescing after its conception in the 2008 recession, and its birth pangs with Occupy. The Sanders campaign took that movement some distance forward, I think, primarily by reminding people that the rancid false choices the Democrats and Republicans offer us are not the only possibilities, and by showing young people what the old-time Democratic religion used to sound like.
Many seeds were planted by Bernie's campaign, I believe, and they will grow even after Bernie has abandoned tending them. I don't know what motivates Bernie to do what he's currently doing, and I don't much care. The man is not the campaign phenomenon. He gave us that campaign and brought us together in new ways. What we do with that gift, and how we take the movement forward from here will have little or nothing to do with Bernie, I suspect. That's OK -- he did his part.
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Doc,
I agree with everything you posted.
My background is in land use planning. So for me, it is always about the big picture. Social movements are the big picture solutions.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I wish I shared your optimism
I believe the coalescing that Bernie began to make is already disintegrating. I don't see any new directions, individual or group leadership. People made it about Bernie and THIS election, not a movement. Many people that care deeply are left without a clear path. Yes there will be new groups but many will have sub agenda's, cults of personality and all with the need to start back at square one.
Forces in the US and abroad seeking more justice, economic
social and legal, have always existed. Jesus (or whoever concocted the riff that the NT attributes to Jesus). Abolitionists. French Revolutionaries. (Liberté, égalité, fraternité!), the U.S. labor movement that began after the Civil War. The socialist sand anarchists martyred in the course of the Haymarket Affair. Communists here and abroad. "Hollywood" liberals. "Bleeding heart" liberals. The watchword, "the 99%" to which this board owes its title, was one the Boston Occupy movement resurrected from Democrat Socialist George Orwell (who died in 1950, only two years after finishing 1984). The short-lived Occupy Movement was but a part of a long-lived moral river.
At one time, plutocrats at least gave lip service to "the poor," "the most vulnerable," "a thousand points of light," and similar things they didn't actually give a fig about. But they got more and more greedy, callous and bold. Prior to the start of Occupy the plutocrats were flexing shamelessly: "Liar loans." People "running out" on their mortgages. College grads "too good" to apply for a commercial drivers' license to get jobs driving trucks.
The very, very important work that Occupy did was, within a few weeks and on almost zero money, shifting the entire national conversation dramatically to the POV of the 99%. Joe Scarborough, who, in 2008 was bellowing nasally, "Economic warfare (implied: against the wealthy) never works" now speaks of the 99%. Sure, maybe he was being phony both times, but he knows which tune he has to dance to now, just like #WhichHillary finally knows now.
As to Bernie: If each of us is really, really honest, none of us can know anyone else's motives, no matter how sure we are of our own opinion about someone else's motives. I'm lucky if I know all my own motives, let alone those of someone with whom I've never had lunch. Sure, everyone has an opinion about his motives, but you know what they say about opinions.
However, I do know that, for the good of the 99%, it's really past time to move on from focusing on Bernie and Bernie's motives, no matter what they were in 2014 or are now. That was for June (maybe); this is October. Election Day is mere weeks away.
IMO, the majority of the posts on this board now should be about strategic voting, how to help the Greens reach 5% or more of the popular vote, how to defeat Hillary or defeat Trump, etc. Instead, we're still theorizing about Bernie's motives, which no one can truly know one way or the other, and which no one can prove. No one is changing anyone's mind, anyway. All we're doing is causing dissension among ourselves and picking scabs to re-expose rawness of wounds, both those inflicted by the primary and those we are inflicting on each other.
At this point, Bernie is the past. Breaking the duopoly (at a minimum) is the future. Getting Stein's share up to at least 5% will help do that and it's about all we can realistically hope to accomplish by election day.
And generally require a good dose of street action
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Both true. But both carry a lot of risk, too. Interesting times.
For the Establishment, this fresh new American attitude is already becoming excessively inconvenient. If it cannot be distracted, it must be suppressed and brought to an end, for the sake of national security and foreign policy objectives. It wouldn't be the first time.
John Pilger noted recently the responsibilities that come with waking up from the brainwashing coma with a growing awareness:
Pilger means holocaust in the literal sense. A real democracy with informed voters is dangerously incompatible with the Permanent side of the US Federal government that was created and populated during the Reagan years. These are the powerful, permanently installed Neocons that rule the US, while generating most of the classified documents that the government produces. They have painstakingly eliminated discussion and democratic action in the US in the decades since, especially as it pertains to foreign affairs.
The architect of this policy was Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was focused, then, on the exact same goal that the US has today — preventing the rise of the Eastern Hemisphere, Russia, and China. In his lauded and much quoted book, The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives, Zbigniew Brzezinski, the godfather of US policies from Afghanistan to the present day, explains:
, because "the pursuit of power is not a goal that commands popular passion . . . Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilisation.
He is right about that. So, the surveillance and police states were established to control public thinking in the US and usurp democracy among the people. The surveillance state also efficiently neuters elected representatives on the Temporary side of the Federal Government, when they become disruptive to Empire or attempt to represent their constituents in matters where their opinions are not welcome.
This is why the current crop of whistleblowers are the greatest threat the US government has ever faced.
I don't think there is a political solution.
Nor do I think it is worth the risk. The American people have demonstrated that they are not ready for prime time. They want incrementalism to make everything go away. They won't have your back.
It's the world's problem now.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
I disagree a little.
I think his campaign was meaningful. He has laid out the problems before us. He has exposed the corruption in both parties that make them unfit to govern. I am still working for Jill and think Jill is going to get a lot more votes than the Clintonistas think. And I have taken one piece of the problem and formed a nonprofit to do something about it (see new sig line).
I'm sure I'll still work in politics some. But I'm also looking outside politics and hope others will do the same.
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Also, Bernie is keeping the
Also, Bernie is keeping the possibilities of what should happen in an actual democracy in front of the public, even if he does have to phrase in terms of 'Hillary understands the necessity of these thing for the American people' and do it under the terms of 'campaigning for Hillary' to keep the message of 'what could be' before the public mind - all the while knowing full well that most even semi-informed people will react in the knowledge that, yes, this could be done, but Hillary would never let the public good be a factor in her policy, hopefully encouraging them to think of alternatives.
The American public has been heavily manipulated and propagandized for a very long time, and they are just beginning to shake some of this off, en masse - they must have ideals kept alive in their hearts to keep the fight for democracy alive. And that's what Bernie is doing, at great personal cost.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Agree.
I don't think he's operating under any threats, but that's irrelevant. This is about us, not about either condemning Bernie or vindicating him. Irrelevant means irrelevant.
Perfect. I think he is operating under threat of some kind but
agree it's irrelevant. Since we can't prove it either way, the point seems moot. I also don't particularly care to condemn nor vindicate Bernie. Even if I was convinced of his sincerity, I still wouldn't vote for her Heinous. So how sincere he might be, or his motives, are indeed irrelevant. We go our own ways.
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Dd, I don't totally agree with you here.
I worked for Bernie's campaign cos of the ISSUES and PROBLEMS he brought to the fore in this godforsaken country/era. I don't have kids and grandkids to answer to; he does. He does not care for $hrill, but tRump scares him cos of his love for his family. I get that completely. I'm voting next month, but definitely not for the above-mentioned candidates. I live in the I-4 Corridor in central Florida. I won't vote in the US Senate race down here either. Our choices are 2 Repukelicans. Well, vomit on that one. This time my conscience marks the ballot. I don't have many years left. We've got local races and ballot amendments to be voted on. They are important, and the locals are running some damned good choices. Bernie made himself hoarse talking about this issue. Why aren't we doing more to fix it?
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
Amanda, did you see the transcript?
This line from Bernie gives me comfort:
It's a truly horrific year, but I think you're being too hard on Bernie. Just my $.02 - we'd all do a lot of fancy tap-dancing if the lives of people we love are credibly threatened (which I've stated previously is what I believe transpired to Bernie in June).
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
But he DOES tell people who to vote for. All the time.
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Still, Sanders continued, "we [were] in the middle of a campaign ... If you go to some of the statements I made about Hillary Clinton, we have real differences." He went on to encourage his supporters to vote for Clinton despite her remarks, arguing that she is "far and away the superior candidate" when compared to rival Donald Trump "issue by issue." Bonnie Kristian
http://theweek.com/speedreads/652532/bernie-sanders-says-course-hes-both...
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“And I would say to those people out there who are thinking of the protest vote, think about what the country looks like and whether you’re comfortable with four years of a Trump presidency,” he continued. “Stay focused on the issues that are relevant to your life.”
“And I would suggest to those people, let us elect Hillary Clinton as president and that day after let us mobilize millions of people around the progressive agenda which was passed in the Democratic platform.”
Earlier, he appeared on CNN’s “New Day” and similarly emphasized that “the only way that we ever make real change in this country is when people come together at the grassroots level.”
And, he noted, the only way that the progressive agenda has a shot at being implemented is with Clinton at the helm and that grassroots force as her guide.
http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/discouraging_protest_vote_sanders_s...
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I could do this all day. Maybe you could explain to me where the honesty is in a man who says shit like he says and then says "don't believe what I tell you". That is foul foul foul. The old fool wants to be part of the 'establishment' and still lead a 'revolution'. IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. He's either lying when he says support the Clinton creature. or when he tells us to vote our 'conscience'. That is outright dishonest.
He wants his 'cake' and he wants to throw us to the wolves at the same time.
EDIT: One sure way of protecting his family and himself would be to go 'public' with any treats made. Being a fucking coward and toady makes sure he stays under their thumb forever. Are we supposed to be happy that after throwing us to the wolves Sanders can mosey back to his job and life in Vermont like nothing ever happened? Oh no, not going to happen. I wonder how millenials are going to take that remark. I don't think they're going to like it (of care too much for him anymore either.)
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
We've been over this a lot
haven't we?
I need to understand--really, really understand--where you think Sanders could possibly go public with this?
Who will he tell, that will tell the truth about what he says?
No Toots, you're not trying to 'understand' anything.
Because it's not all that damn hard to figure out what I mean. Who would he tell? THE NATION. He's got a voice, he could bust this whole thing wide open if he was threatened. And it would be pretty hard for whoever it is who is going to come and get him (in your mind) to get away with anything if he would do a Howard Beal. In fact, that would be the SMART thing to do. Then I douvt anyone would dare touch him or his.
You're making shit up in your head. You have no proof he's been threatened. But you beat that tired old crap to death every day. So, I'd love to know, where do you get your proof that he was threatened? Come on, let's see it. You want to make that claim. you really need to back it up with some fact. Something I always have and you never do.
I'm not here to to make you happy or satisfy your 'criteria' for posting. As far as I can tell, you HATE facts but love but love posting conspiracy crap. When you have the proof he or his family was threatened, get back to me. Otherwise you should really go spread your manure someplace else. You're starting to sound a bit unhinged.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
He's got 'a voice' is your response to that?
The proof is in his patterns of behavior. He's been an extremely consistent political individual for a handful of decades... and then he dumps all of that on a dime. It's written on his face and in his other mannerisms.
Perhaps you've never experienced a moment where your life is threatened and it is conceivable there is no possible way out. If that's the case, I celebrate that you maintain that state of being - I deeply miss that innocence for myself.
If you do not know that there is a tens-of-millions of dollars machine (just one? allow me to be metaphorical here) waiting to continue to smear him should he say anything which could be construed as crazy or conspiracy-related. The abstraction of 'THE NATION' which you assert is not so easily accessed as you assert. It is an incredibly expensive industry which has talons ready to pounce at any utterance off message. Read up on David Brock's work with the Thomas hearings if you want an example of someone hung out to dry for telling the truth - and we're likely not even speaking about her life being threatened for having done so. How is Monica these days? Gennifer? There is a machine for dealing with those who throw up obstacles, and it barely takes scraping beneath the surface to become aware of it.
Not everything which is true is instantly prove-able.
The history may or may not be told - we do not know if it will be at this point.
The proof of what has been done to Sanders is in his behavior and his mannerisms - he is sufficiently guileless to make him significantly more transparent than most. If you do not see that *something* is up, well, so be it.
I don't appreciate the tone you have taken with Luna - I presume at least some of it is intended in my direction as well. I get that you are convinced of your righteousness - and maybe you are correct. Time may tell (or maybe it won't).
An analogy I'd like to make is to the recent academic studies about election rigging in the primary. Election-rigging software programs leave no trace on the voting machines, but the larger patterns are observable in aggregate. Investigators at Stanford have been convinced, but their studies are not in wide circulation even given the threat they expose to our democracy. The study authors have attempted (and I would say they have failed) to get word out to 'THE NATION.'
Public relations and communications are just as dominated by monied interests as everything else in our society. Having something true to say is not what predicts that that message gets out.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Don't make presumptions, that makes you look foolish when
you don't know what you're talking about. I wasn't directing one damn thing towards you.
You can run with this 'threatened' nonsense all you want. Until today I've not said one word about that 'theory' or how ridiculous it sounds. You notice how few people here give it any credence, don't you? If that's what you believe, that's what you believe. But you've never ever seen me (or anybody else) complain about your lack of proof or how you shouldn't be posting about it, have you? You two (I am including you now) need to allow others to do the same.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
My sole objection is to your tone toward Luna
I have never suggested you not post whatever you are inclined to post - that's not how I roll.
You're making my point when you ask about people not giving any credence - it would be that 1000x if it is true that Bernie has been threatened if he were to speak up to say so. One of my skillsets is reading body language for congruence - not a common skill (at least consciously) in our society, and not one folks would put much credence in for that reason. I don't have a problem with your finding my observations ridiculous - but your thinking so is not what makes me correct or incorrect. And truth is that we won't resolve that here. I'm ok with that. But I would prefer you use a bit more respect (and less aggression) even if you are displeased with what Luna has written.
If I have a complaint about your postings, it would be that direct quotes from the writings of others really ought to be put in block quotes to make clear what is the writing of someone other than yourself. I've found your posts to sometimes be confusing for missing formatting.
Here's today's example of someone who's telling the nation what happened to her, about which no one will care or give any credence: http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/298897-woman-who-...
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
The comments at that link are horrible!
They call Hillary "clot" and Trump "sniffles" and some accuse the women of crying rape for the money. Hillbots saying it. Disgusting!
That crap makes this Bernie argument look like Sunday school. I should not have read the comments there.
But here, I wish I could put both Luna and Amanda in a big oversized shirt together until they worked it out. There's a pic online of a couple of kids whose mom did it to them.
This political season requires prophylactic reading
Be careful out there!
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
You friend needs to understand that she doesn't tell people here
what information they can post here. And what they're going feeling. If she could handle those two rather simple concepts, there wouldn't be any problem whatsoever. I am furious that her Hall Monitor attitude has sullied this entire thread.
I can handle, and in fact don't at all mind a different opinion. I don't like being told I what I should and should not post when it's not that person's decision. Maybe that person should show some respect herself. She does not run this place. I have that on good authority.
***
Management has no problem...
with your postings Amanda.
up
10 users have voted.
***
So please, don't lecture me. Talk to your friend. In fact, let's make a deal. I'll never respond to anything she posts and she minds her business when it comes to mine. Considering I've only replied a couple time to anything she's posted, this will not be a handicap. All I want is the same courtesy. And if it will make things better here, you and I can come to the same agreement as well. That eliminates the whole problem right there.
P.S. And what has any of this to do with Kathleen Wiley?
EDIT: I didn't join this board to get the same shit I got on KOS. I joined to post and share information. I am not here to be censored or to be told how I feel about an issue or argue with people about what I'm allowed to say and not say.
EDIT: Tired because of lack of sleep so I cut the damn wrong thing. I just fixed it.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
I give it credence. I like a lot of what you write too.
Of course we don't know what happened. And maybe a threat of him never lawmaking effectively again was enough. But his manner does seem "beaten" and he is trying to tell us who to vote for after saying he would never do that. I consider a threat against his loved ones a strong possibility.
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
Patterns of behavior
The problem with your argument is that the pattern of Bernie's behavior is entirely consistent with Amanda Matthews' comments. Bernie has always turned huge amounts of radical rhetoric into meaningful but small incremental changes.
This is the Bernie Sanders who has been to the right of Hillary Clinton on gun control.
Take a look at Bernie's comments on single payer in 2009 and at what he settled for.
Bernie has done important things fr veterans. But why does he decline to allow veterans against the war to attend his meetings with veterans?
The most reasonable place to find resources for projects we value along with Bernie is the defense budget. Why wasn't cutting the defense budget a significant part of his campaign? Do you think it would have offended his supporters?
Why does Bernie wax eloquent on the plight of the working poor and enthusiastically support the basing of F-35 fighters at the Burlington Airport? The basing will throw a significant portion of the largest swath of affordable housing in the state into a zone the federal government labels "unsuitable for residential use."
The limits Bernie has placed on the growth of the Progressive Party in VT are analogous to his behavior here. He won't let the Progressive Party do anything that would cause the Democratic Party to run a candidate against him, a threat that's remote and likely to be spectacularly unsuccessful.
Bernie goes public with a message to the left of virtually every elected official in the country. Why can't that be enough? Many people here have a need to turn Bernie into a larger than life hero. He's a very practical politician. He can be ruthless. He's as far from guileless as Mitch McConnell.
Toots?
Etymology 2[edit]
Shortened from tootsie.
Pronunciation[edit]
(US) IPA(key): /ˈtʊts/, [ˈtʰʊts]
Noun[edit]
toots (uncountable)
(slang, sometimes derogatory) Babe, sweetie: a term used when addressing a young woman, especially one perceived as being sexually available.
Hey, toots! How you doing?
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
asdf
charming, isn't it?
My experience is that the essayist oftenwrites like a dick, but
how would that go over? Not worth my time.
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
But you took the time to post, didn't you?
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Yes that certainly worked well
For Ross Perrot. My guess is they threatened not his family but Vermont. The state of Washington has been the subject of a congressional vendetta so has Oregon. It's not fun for the senators or the people.
???
Right. Patrick Leahy would have no problem at all with that.
My state has 3 senators
At the time they started messing around with my state we had two fairly powerful democratic senators. In the end they protected us with one exception which was the radio active leaks at Hanford which had its funding cut.
Oregon ended up with a depot full of rotting nerve gas canisters forced upon them. These went away only a few years ago. Most states are dependent on the federal government in a million ways. Say they cut or scale back a weapons program that provides a great deal of work in specific factories there? Kind of hard to fight that. Say they decide to resume drug raids on the legal states again, Vermont is one.
The voters of Vermont are his Achilles heal. My state has been through it, Oregon has been through it. Reagan tried to clearcut our national park and sell our co op power provider to California A Democratic majority cut funding for Hanford clean up during the Clinton administration. It did not resume until Bush took office.
You may have valid arguments Amanda
but ad hominem attacks on other community members are out of line--yeah, okay, I'm not a moderator. Stick to the subject please without resorting to personal insults. All of us here make comments with which many others disagree but please show your disagreement in a more civil way. I think you make some valid points but L.C. should not be demeaned for her view points.
But I should? This isn't my first trip to the rodeo with
her. And she gets back what she gives.
She's welcome to her opinion. She is not welcome in telling me
1) I have to ignore a topic because she's deemed it 'unimportant'
2) whether I should post about a topic or article or not
3) and what my opinion should be
Last time around she basically called me a liar when I posted that Sanders was in talks with Clinton to start campaigning for her. And I had backed it up with a link, just like I always do. There was NEVER any admission from her that she was wrong, rude, and or that she popped off without having the faintest clue what she was talking about. I owe her nothing in regard to 'respect' for her feelings. One of the site monitors even pm'd me and told me if they'd have seen the thread as it was unraveling she'd have put a halt to it.
When I see a person worthy of respect, that's how I treat them. When I see someone who is just out to give orders, there's no reason to bother.
Just like you're doing.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Under the circumstances, I don't consider Amanda's words
to be ad hominem attacks. It's been implied, more than once in this thread, that she is 'beating a dead horse'--by bringing up the topic of Bernie's endorsement and support of FSC, and the fact that she is unhappy about it. This appears to have become a pattern.
Further, she is fully within her right to post a transcript or audio of Bernie, or any politician. Reminder: This is a nonpartisan blog. Caucus members are not required to pledge their allegiance to any political party, much less to any particular politician.
I have a couple of observations of my own to add, but since I've got a very ill canine to care for, they'll have to wait until tomorrow.
Speaking as a member, for now, if the content of Amanda's thread were as disturbing to me as it appears to be for some members, I'd probably just give it a pass. Clearly, there are vast differences in the perception of Bernie's actions, that likely will not be resolved (in this thread).
Or, perhaps state one's strong disagreement with the content of the material that she's posted/her analysis, but avoid objecting to her choice of topic--leaving that to Admin, as appropriate.
[Edit: Removed redundant phrase.]
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Update: Misty May has been adopted. Yeah!
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Thank you. And I apologize to you and the other 'management'
for how ugly this thread got. But my feelings are if I'm contributing (although next to nothing) I have the right to post articles and have opinions like everyone else. I have a real problem with basically being told to 'shut up'. I know that I am not blameless in this mess, and for that I'm sorry. Well, except for maybe the 'truther' remark.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
"Why Bernie Turned" is a touchy subject here.
I've learned to avoid it. It took me a couple weeks to come to grips with losing Bernie. But bottom line, I no longer listen to what he says now. He's on Team Hellery now regardless of the reason. Whether he's been threatened or he turned Judas or anything in between, maybe the history books will tell us (or perhaps a coming email leak). But regardless of the reason, whatever he says now cannot be trusted.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
Hey, COE--if self-censorship
works for you--that's fine. I certainly would never try to talk anyone out of doing what's most comfortable for them.
But, for some of us, the reason that we're here is to be able to speak our minds without fear of being attacked for unpopular views, or trolled--as long as we present our comments/arguments in a rational and civil manner.
Also, since this is a nonpartisan blog--views from all political ideologies and perspectives are welcome.
Personally, I seek to assist JtC, Joe, and the other Mods in creating a blog environment in which members feel free to post on any and all news events--which was exactly what the transcript/audio of Bernie was.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Amanda, that's what Admin/Mods are for--
rational/civil discourse is welcome; pie fights are not.
Bernie Sanders is a political/public figure, and as such, can be subjected to criticism, just as he is to praise and/or adoration.
To be clear, this applies to the threads of all members. There are no 'special rules' pertaining to specific politicians and/or political parties.
Again, this is a nonpartisan blog.
Obviously, it is not unreasonable for commenters to drop into an essay thread, and state that they believe that a topic has already been sufficiently addressed--translation: that the essay is 'beating a dead horse.'
However, after such statement, if a commenter repeatedly reiterates the same sentiment, without bringing anything new to the discussion, it becomes trolling, and or haranguing.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Wow. OK--so now we can't say that a topic is exhausted?
And if we do we're making a personal attack on somebody?
That seems way extreme to me. In no way does expressing one's opinion that a topic is exhausted, and that we all said we were sick to death of the topic imply an attempt to censor one particular individual, or attack them.
Nonetheless, the idea that it IS an attack, or an attempt to censor, does make a good point: if you think a person's diary is about an exhausted topic, just don't go into it.
That would mean there would be no offense given.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
How many times do you have to say it? And how many
times do you think you need to hop in on someone else's behalf? Someone who would just not let it go. I was presented with one too many demands to justify myself and my thread by the same person, and they were rude demands to boot. That's okay? Can I do that to you? Can I do that to anyone? Hell no I can't. And like I said earlier, this is the same person who called me a liar when I posted that Bernie was (out of the blue) going to start campaigning for Her Heinous. Complete with backup. And that got a few "then the post need to be deleted" or "then someone needs to tell the OP to take that post down". But there was never any mention of "oops, I's sorry we called you a liar" a couple days later when he hit the campaign trail for her. Not one. I had never seen that done here before. And I have never seen it since. And it was started by the same person.
Someone here even used the word 'dick' when referring to my posts during the pile on. I suppose that was intended to hurt, but that was the one post that made me laugh. I was wondering, would you be mad if I did that to you?
"My experience is that the essayist oftenwrites like a dick, but
how would that go over? Not worth my time."
And yet, they took the time to make that post. Can I say that to you? Can I say that to anybody? What would happen? Would you laugh like I did? Or would you be hitting the old Alert button?
Disagreement is fine. That's part of playing on the Intertubes. But if you're going to poke me with a remark like this:
We've been over this a lot
haven't we?
there will definitely be 'feed back'. You can always PM JtC and ask him to ban me, but until he does, I think I deserve the same courtesy you (and obviously everyone else here) think you deserve for your opinions. And I am not being snotty, snarfy, mean, or a 'dick'. I am just telling you how I feel about what happened.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
I don't want to ban you. There's currently nobody here that I
want to ban. (?)
And you may not have noticed, but I made a suggestion at the bottom of my comment: the way out of this whole snarl is to stay out of people's diaries if you think they're not useful.
That way nobody offends anybody. Seems sensible.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Yeah, you would think so. That's why I stay out of all kinds of
stuff around here.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
who would he tell?
Russia Today
BBC World Service
Democracy Now!
caucus99percent.com
And don't forget the good old fashioned FBI! Coercion of a Federal Legislator is a Federal crime, even if you are a Federal Legislator yourself.
Just a few examples for starters! Once the proverbial cat was out of the bag, the MSM would have to take cognizance, just as they eventually had to do so for Bernie before -- kicking and screaming, yes, but doing so nonetheless.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I truly don't think
it would make it to the BBC World Service. And after what the FBI just did (or had done, whichever your perspective) how could he trust that?
The other three would certainly tell it like it is. Do we suppose that he'd get that far? Even if he does, what's the first thing you think the NYT is going to say? And all the dutiful little press minions that parrot their every utterance? Do you think they'll say it louder than we do, no matter how right and just we are and how full of shit they are? And if that were actually happening at all, what happens to Bernie in the meantime, while others fight to get that information out? What happens to his family? To his friends?
And seriously, doesn't anyone suppose that if he could have done this, he would have? These are the same "reporters" who now report things that should be a big deal, but they're treated by the reporters like they're not. Why would we expect Bernie trying to whistle-blow to be any different, given what we've seen in the last year?
Oh, yeah, and don't even get me started on how dangerous it is to blow the whistle on anyone connected with the United States government. Please!
For what it's worth, I wish Bernie Sanders would have felt like his life was worth giving up. But who am I to judge him if he doesn't? Who's to say? Maybe they told him something about Trump that scared the hell out of him? Or maybe they just scared the hell out of him with something else. But....and here's been the point all along--what good does it do to dwell on ANY of this? He's not going to help us now.
It is up to US to move forward. Where does it make sense to keep dwelling on stuff that will only hold us back?
CT
I don't miss TOP in the least, but your argument is a powerful justification for Markos' conspiracy theory rule. Why stop there? People here trashed Elizabeth Warren for failing to endorse Bernie. Maybe she was threatened too. Maybe she risked her life bu refusing to endorse Hillary in January.
It's much harder to wack a US senator than a anonymous low level employee or contractor. But more fundamentally, with Bernie there is no need because he has no intention of becoming an existential threat to the establishment.
Criminey how likely is it that if the BBC were told by a sitting
U.S. Senator that his or his family were threatened they'd ignore it? That's some really weird stuff right there.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
So it's your position that it never could and never will happen?
Got it.
If we're going to stoop to calling other people we don't agree with conspiracy theorists and truthers, maybe it's time to revisit the mission statement of this place. Assuming we have one.
Seriously, the FBI? A nice
Seriously, the FBI? A nice little chat with Comey, perhaps, about Clinton-related threats?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
You're right.
You're right. What was I thinking?
But meet me here: a mix with some of the other suggestions might make matters a little hot for Craven Comey and those in the food chain above him.....
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Hot to Comey and those above him?
How?
Seriously--and I'm not trying to give you a hard time, you were nice enough to ask me and I appreciate that (compared to the alternatives); But I seriously want us to walk through such a scenario to determine where and how best to go about it. I'd like seriously to see if there's a way to help it play out without harm to anyone, if Bernie just "Blew The Whistle".
You don't have to do that, I won't get angry at you if you don't. But to me, it's important, so we can see whether or not it's actually feasible. It's easy to just sit back and say "yeah, he should have done this", or "what if he can't?". To me, that's a reasonable request, but let me know if you don't think so? Contrary to some of my more vituperative, hissing critics, I'm actually open to changing my mind.
How?
My idea was to put the meme out there -- and have it crop up in every news conference these people had to give from now until Inauguration Day. It may never get beyond the "pesky" stage, but it would be there in ways it isn't right now, dogging them every time they had to speak to reporters. And functionaries of the ranks we're talking about do occasionally have to speak to reporters.
This is part of what I had in mind when I listed all the foreign-sponsored news organizations that I did. There was method to that madness.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
"Who will he tell, that will tell the truth about what he says?"
No one but Bernie has to tell the truth about what Bernie wants say. He is on TV shows all the time. On the floor of the Senate, too, where he cannot even be sued for a thing he chooses to say. And on the stump. He can also send letters simultaneously to all the news agencies and networks and wikileaks. To his friends in the Vatican, even.
If he has been threatened, he can tell all the world himself, all at once, if it's true and if he wants to tell anyone at all.
Twitter
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
Sigh
don't you remember the interview that Jane Sanders leaked, where Sanders told us all to not listen to him if he ever told you how to vote? That's the same Bernie that's trying to turn this into a "plus" for Clinton. Fucking ridiculous that he would even try. I don't see anyone listening to him, and I doubt I will.
What I continue to not get is the idea that you excoriate him so, yet you persist in amplifying his more ridiculous utterances. Why would you bother giving him column space at all? You think someone would listen to this particular twaddle and think it makes any fucking sense at all? Seriously? Cuz the people reading around here, at least, are pretty damned smart. I don't think there's any danger of them being fooled...
My comment just above makes your point...
Can't find the video yet, but it's in the transcript.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Yup. It's a point most of us are making here
and have been making since at least June. I understand that people grieve differently, but there is a point where it becomes worse for the soul to keep rehashing the same feelings of loathing over and over again, than to just let it flow through you and out the nearest virtual intelligence exit--and then just block it out.
It hurts. It sucks. It makes me damned angry. I will never pay him heed, he can spin nine ways to Sunday on that, I have no reason to take him seriously. And I'm not going to dwell on it, either, because it's simply not healthy for me. I hope that Amanda can get to that point, it's very liberating. I have enough things to be pissed off about that I can try to do something about. Bernie flapping his mouth in defense of Her Heinous is not one of them anymore.
THEN DON'T READ THE DAMN POST.
This is not rocket science.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Do you see no empathy at all here?
Jesus Christ, you're eating yourself up with all this anger over something that's moved to irrelevancy in the short term.
No, nevermind, that'll be me telling you what the fuck to do (throws hands up in the air)
I'm a truther now? And what does that make YOU?
A freaking REALIST.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Amanda says quit trying to read minds. You're no good at it. And
Amanda sincerely hope that Lunachickie needs to take care of her own business and worry about herself and quit acting like she understands what other people feel. Like that stupid line about grieving. How condescending and patronizing can she be? I'm not grieving, I'm damn sick of the betrayals.
Gore and Kerry rolled over like cheap suits. Now Sanders has done it as well. This is what happens when you don't care whether or not your candidate has any principals or not. You keep getting people who don't care enough to fight the corruption. What if Amanda told you that it's people like you who are the cause of that happening?
Now, quit worrying about what Amanda is doing and go fetch that proof that Sanders was 'threatened' so you don't look so much like a 911 'truther'.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Uh-huh
Maybe you want to rephrase this?
Because that says a lot more about you than you might think.
No, I don't want to rephrase it at all. You make all these
claims with no proof and expect everyone to believe your nonsense. Start backing your crap up like everyone else does around here.
And ooooooooooo, Lunachickie sounds upset that someone isn't taking her crap lying down.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Wow
yeah, thanks for letting me know where you're really coming from. Anyone who posits things that you can't explain is a truther.
Please, proceed....I'm out. You post all the nonsensical and irrelevant anger you want if it helps you feel better.
I am a 911 "truther". Because I know a bit too much to be taken
in by the Bush era lies. I spent 3+ years, all my free time, trying to convince myself that the official story MUST be correct, but they still taught basic physics when I was in high school. The only way the official story is correct is if Osama Bin Laden reached out with his mystic Islamofascist mind powers, from his secret underground hide-out in Afghanistan, and changed the laws of physics over Manhattan. Which could happen, I'm sure. Just like in comic books.
It would take a lecture series to refute every point of BS in the "official story". -But here is my keystone for the whole convoluted cover story. Take it out, and the edifice of the "official story" fails.
My first job on this planet was helping dismantle a steel-framed building. They don't just collapse like a game of "Jenga". I've spent much of my adult life working with steel, and I can tell you for a FACT that you cannot MELT steel with jet fuel A, burning in air. Cannot. You could have a LAKE of it, and not MELT steel. It simply doesn't burn hot enough. By half.
One of the debunker straw-men is that you don't HAVE TO melt steel to reduce it's structural strength by half, which is true. And I'm sure there isn't a single architect in the USA that knows that, so they can plan accordingly. /sarcasm
But NYC firefighters are on record as saying that there were RIVERS OF MOLTEN IRON under the wreckage. Guess what? Somebody that actually works around high-heat materials for a living is one hell of a lot more expert on the subject than some Bush-administration talking head that was only moments before, an expert on terrorists. Other firefighters said it looked like a volcano, or a foundry. WEEKS after the event, they were pulling white-hot, i.e. nearly molten, multi-ton pieces of steel out of the wreckage. What fucking did that? NO, NOT JET FUEL.
Sorry. I get agitated. Maybe because I am sick to bloody death of being hit with the CT meme, being effectively called a loony for pointing out that the "official story" is TOTALLY DISCONNECTED FROM PHYSICAL REALITY. Tell me how all that steel melted. There are satellite photos from weeks after the event, showing very high-heat areas in the footprint of the destruction. What melted the steel? All the "debunking" on that point relies on re-direction, and straw-men. Even a piece of straw-man "experiment" from a government testing facility. Seriously, tell me what melted the steel, and I'll shut up. Otherwise, quit telling me to believe in comic books. -Especially comic books from the completely truthful team that brought us "WMDs in Iraq".
My point? That is a FACT concerning 911, and it has been effectively ignored by all MSM, because it contradicts the "official story". But back to the question at hand. All suggestions that Bernie has been threatened, beaten, or roughed-up are surmise, ONLY. We have no proof. But even if it was out there, the MSM would likely never post it. The would likely deep-six it, and move on to the next fake controversy.
Can I PROVE that Bernie was threatened? NO. I wasn't there, I've seen nothing that could prove it. But given that he has caved, politically, and that his demeanor seems cowed to me, now, I can sure as hell have my suspicions. And I would thank you not to call those of us who do, loonies.
"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes
We were CT loons for thinking the primary was rigged
Then the proof we needed came out in the leaked emails. Dots were connected, and the "T" had to be dropped. Of course, bots won't admit it, and it's just barely been mentioned in the media. No apologies for calling us loons.
In my gut, I feel like something happened that we don't know about. His behavior isn't the same as it was, you're right. I'm looking forward to the next email dump, for sure!
That the primaries were rigged was made obvious by the acts
of DWS and the DNC.
There was no conspiracy theory involved in that at all. Starting with the 'Bernie hacked our website' bullshit.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
We had no proof until the email dump
Until then, it was just a hunch we all had. The collusion, media included, was proven by the dump.
We had pretty good 'proof' the day DWS shut off the Sanders
campaign access to it's voter database.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
We knew it had been done.
The purge of 126K Brooklyn voters by a government official who sold a run-down property for millions over the real market value to a Hillary Clinton superdelegate?
I know it sounds like something out of the 1970s Joe Don Baker vehicle Mitchell
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InHgWFrQRbI]
but it actually happened.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Right, but "proof" to refute CT loon label by shillbots
We didn't have "proof" to refute the labels thrown at us until the dump. Just saying, 'Look what happened in New York, and L.A.!' didn't work. They blamed the Republicans - when it was a Dem job.
Now, they're preempting the upcoming wikileaks dump with, 'The Russians are going to release fake emails.' Because we all know it was the evil, scary Russian hackers. Not!
I hope this next dump is so damning that it blows the roof off the whole damn thing, from rotten top, to putrid bottom.
I see your point.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
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