Maybe they really are that stupid
Submitted by Hawkfish on Tue, 09/13/2016 - 7:33pm
The rumour mill is claiming that if Hillary drops out they will replace her with Uncle Joe:
DNC delegate: If @HillaryClinton withdraws, every indication now committee will vote to replace with Biden. @BernieSanders team scrambling
Look, the Dems have essentially three choices:
- Keep running Hillary. As Scott Adams so eloquently points out, she will lose because she showed unacceptable weakness at an American "holy place". I had come to about the same conclusion because of the mythical weakness of illness, but the argument is similar. People need to get over the idea that elections are rational - they are not. Mythical and irrational elements are just as important.
- Uncle Joe or some other DNC bigwig (including Kaine). The sound of millions of Bernie backers screaming out in anger at being screwed again will doom the sacrificial lamb. They will stay home.
- Bernie. All of a sudden, you have someone with positive approval ratings who can actually win.
The choice seems pretty obvious, but that hasn't stopped them before.
Comments
Possibly the most popular Pol in the country
is not Oligarchy safe.
Can you imagine all the rancid discussions going on now, within the deep, dark depths of DC?
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
... and those discussions all involve money - LOT$$ of money -
When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.
Perhaps most important...
...installing Joe B. will enable the Clintons to retain control of the party, which is precisely why they would do it. They know that accepting Bernie as a substitute would seriously damage their ability to do so.
James Kroeger
You gotta wonder...
...what they could possibly think of to say to Bernie as they try to explain to him why they can't offer him the job of Democratic Nominee and must give it to Joe Biden.
Do you suppose Bernie would continue to play the game with them? Or do you think it might suddenly dawn on him that they are determined to cut him off, and his influence within the party, and that he might as well consider the option of walking away from them altogether?
Especially when a Hillary Clinton loss to Trump seems to be more certain every day? And surely, that greater cause (defeating Trump) was the only reason why he decided to help his victimizers in the first place, wasn't it?
My guess is that he would still hesitate to run as an independent, simply because it would seem too risky, but it would sure make him crazy thinking about the possibilities of successfully challenging Trump juxtaposed with the virtual certainty that the Clinton faction with the Democratic Party intend only to play him for a fool.
Hmm...
(For all I know, he could never get on the ballot in every state anyway, at this point...)
James Kroeger
If Ajamu gracefully bowed out and Jill moved to the VP slot,
could he run as the Green nominee at this point? In other words, is it Stein/Baraka that just got on the ballot in 47 states or is it the Green party?
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They may install him as the nominee but they won't install him
in the White House. Not a single Bernie backer will vote for him.
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Wait, what?
And on what are you basing this?
In thinking about Democratic party strategy,
here's what you have to imagine: the voter that the Democratic party is trying to harvest, in running Biden rather than Clinton.
It's a voter who cares about stopping racism and other forms of bigotry exemplified by Trump. Trump scares this voter. (Voters who like Trump or find him tolerable will never be available to the Democratic party). But this is also a voter who has refused, thus far, to vote for Hillary Clinton.
We can agree on that, right? They don't care about the voters who are already in the bag for Clinton, anymore than I care about securing the groceries that are already in my fridge. They are looking for a value-add--some additional voters to make it look like a Democratic party win in November could actually be legitimate.
So this voter, this value-add, is someone who was immune to all previous exhortations from the Dems thus far, including those of President Obama. Having President Obama come out and talk about how Joe Biden will prevent the racist extremism of Trump from destroying the country probably won't have much effect on this voter, because this voter has just spent the last few months watching President Obama stump for Hillary--and it's had no impact on them. It's even possible Obama's credibility with this voter has gone down over the past few months, given that Hillary tends to have the same relationship to moral and political capital that a dead zone has to the Gulf of Mexico. (Surrogates don't improve her numbers, no matter how much credibility they start out with. If anything, the surrogates end up losing credibility, while she remains the same).
It's also fairly likely that any voter who isn't in the bag for Hillary right now probably despises or at least distrusts the Democratic party for pushing her so hard, right down our throats--or, to put it better: a voter who doesn't want Trump but refuses to vote for Hillary is probably royally pissed right now at the Democrats for having put us in this position in the first place.
It's probable that some unconvinced voters will swing to Biden out of sheer relief that anyone who's not Hillary or Trump is available. That seems to be what the establishment is counting on. But it's *equally* possible that you will swing some unconvinced voters into the Trump camp, since you're creating a situation in which Trump, and only Trump, can now claim to be the pro-democracy candidate. It's also possible that you will crater turnout, and if you do, in a race between Trump and Biden, Trump will win.
In fact, it's actually a toss-up as to which is worse: run Hillary, who is hated, but who can at least claim to have gotten millions of people to vote for her, or run Joe, who is a vaguely benevolent blank to most Americans, but who can't claim to have gotten a single vote since the last time he ran for Senate! This is probably what they're wrangling about.
As for Bernie supporters, my guess--and it's just a guess--is that those who have gone over to Hillary will vote for Biden, with a sigh of relief. There may be a few #NeverHillary Bernie supporters who support Biden out of that same relief. But a clear injustice is being done here, and it's unlikely that very many #BernieOrBust types will embrace an unelected Joe Biden appointed by the same party hacks that they now utterly despise for having been unfair to them in the first place. Now that they're being unfair AGAIN, are they likely to embrace the instrument of that unfairness?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
The only way they could maybe make it work
Is to give Bernie the VP spot.
I hope to God he'd say no.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Perhaps a bit of wishful thinking and exaggeration.
But as others said better downthread, this would be a second injustice on top of the first. And no "our first woman President!" excitement to counteract it. And really not a leg to stand on, since the second vote-getter was Bernie. No one voted for Kaine or Biden for President. And their politics aren't any better than hers.
So while I suppose there will always be a smattering, I am sure people like me (who won't vote for her even now) aren't going to suddenly think, "Oh, third way Joe! Sure, why not?" I think a lot of people who reluctantly went over to the dark side will be even more disgusted and finally DemExit. And basically, Dem support will be in the gutter.
The vast majority of Bernie backers will, if Hill has to drop out, not in a million years vote for anyone but Bernie. If they dare deny Bernie the nom a second time, they are not serious about beating Trump.
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For the simple reason that a Biden appointment would
be a second sin compounding the first sin of the Hillary anointment, voters will not turn out. In both instances the DNC would be basically telling their own voters to screw off, they will make the selection.
Tim Kaine did not get a single vote. Joe Biden did not get a single vote and what's more, he told the American public he was too emotionally drained by the death of his son to take on the job of running.
There is only one name left that has any credibility to be named as a replacement candidate - the guy that came within a hair of beating Hillary in the first place despite the irregularities, voter purges, etc. - Bernie Sanders.
I think a whole boatload of Dems would sit out in a protest if the DNC tried to pull something like that.
OMG! I just got a brainflash. I almost hesitate to say it out loud for fear of giving them ideas. Hint - female, proxy, nepotism, sentimentality, legacy. Could never happen, could it? OMG! I thought of 2 people who could meet that description! I have to go lie down.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
Could the word "Stanford" be on the list too?
If so, I know what you are thinking but I don't think that person would seriously have any legs, so to speak.
But the second person is still a mystery. I have one guess, though, but I seriously doubt that person would win.
~OaWN
Yes.
I don't think this person would have any legs either, although no political experience whatsoever does not appear to be hampering Trump. And the nepotism, elitism, privilege, "American Royalty" part of the equation should be enough to stomp out any suggestion that this is a viable route for the DNC to go, although nothing would surprise me.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
I have two ideas who you're talking about--
The American people are going to royally dislike both of them.
Adding nepotism to the mix of unelected unfairness is going to push it over the top, and Trump surely will win--or, perhaps more accurately, he will either win or the Dems will be forced into a painfully obvious *second* election fraud.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Maybe that's why he
bought that vacation home.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
So assuming that Bernie was
coerced/threatened/intimidated into
concedingwithdrawing, I am sure they can coerce/threaten/intimidate him into doing whatever they want if he is in the WH. So why not pick him, look good, and then order him about?"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
that's what I think too
In fact, if I were an Evil Overlord, that's precisely what I'd do--but for some reason, the oligarchy seriously wants to pick a fight this time instead of doing their usual deception--pandering--hypocrisy--demoralizing-stab-in-the-back routine.
I wonder how much the Clintons have to do with this. She's egotistical enough not to want the guy who spoiled her show to take the Big Chair, even if it's a Big Chair on a stage production of King Lear.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
The reason I see
Is that picking him could reinvigorate the anti-oligarchy fervor that was temporarily blunted by the rigging of the nomination against him. While putting Sanders into the white house may be an effective tactic to leash him, simply having someone that actually talked about the very real issues of income inequality and political corruption in what is perceived to be the most powerful position in the nation could be all it takes to get the people to do irreparable damage to their carefully constructed political game.
On the other hand, picking someone who absolutely nobody voted for in the primaries may be all it takes to snap a significant enough portion of the faux-feminist Hillary supporters' collective fantasy for them to actually be guaranteed a loss in november, on top of potentially driving more people to support the anti-oligarchy fervor.
The only safe bet for them is to keep running Hillary and inaugurate her corpse in january.
On most of the 'progressive' sites I've read today
is that Biden would be acceptable for replacing Hillary.
The words used to describe him ranged from funny, Biden, uncle Joe, easy going Joe, and others in that meme.
So many people only see the person that the person allows to be seen without looking back at their political views or their voting records.
I was guilty of that while Obama was running the first time. I bought what he was shoveling and it wasn't until after his FISA vote, cabinet picks and then the increase in the military actions that I saw what he had been shoveling was bullshit.
Biden has done a lot of damage in regards to the drug wars, the bankruptcy bill and his other votes.
But would he be less warmongering than Hillary?
It depends on whether the president is actually in charge of the military.
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
He's in a Hillary commercial I saw today.
Don't know if it's new...
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
That's where I differ from the new neo-liberal loving wing of
what used to be the 'Democratic' Party. I'd call him:
'Misogynist' Senator Joe Biden
Senator Joe 'Credit Card' Biden
Senator Joe 'Crime Bill' Biden
He hasn't done a damn thing except pop up every now and then make some noise and try to act like a tough guy since he was elected V.P. He's really been the perfect example of what a nothing spot that job is (unless something 'unfortunate' happens to the boss, of course).
I've honestly HATED that bastid since the Clarence Thomas hearings when he treated Anita Hill like she was something he scraped of the bottom of his shoe.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
I remember the Clarence Thomas hearings differently
Not saying you're wrong, not at all.
Here's what I remember:
Biden and the Dems were wiping the floor with Thomas, using Hill's testimony. Then they took a recess. Thomas' handlers came up with the line "this is a high-tech lynching", which doesn't make any sense. "High-tech"? What? I assume it meant "modern-day" but as it stands, "high-tech lynching" would mean, in those days, they were using computers...which they weren't. It was a nonsense phrase.
Nevertheless, Biden and the other Dems were freaked out by it, thinking it would make them look like they were against "a black man". They forgot they were against Clarence Thomas!
At which point they abandoned Ms. Hill. I don't recall them saying anything against her, just that they no longer cared to use Thomas' perversity in the hearings.
He talked down to her like she was trash. She didn't ask to be
there, they asked HER to testify and they treated her like she was there to get back at Thomas for jilting her or something. There were other women who were ready, more than willing, and dying to prove that they were able to stand up to the corrupt bastid and back up every word Hill said. And they had stories of their own. But Biden, chickenshit that he is, treated Hill like she was nothing but a vindictive shrew, and then just tossed her aside without allowing her the chance to prove what she said was true.
And as for the Dems being worried about how they'd look going up against a 'black man', well they sure didn't hesitate to destroy the reputation of a black woman, did they?
Edit: him/Thomas
2nd edit: Latka Gravas made more sense than what I posted.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Amanda, yes, yes and yes
and that's why I don't like Biden. His behavior was sad and made me cringe. Ick!!
Makes sense to me!
I think this is a good summary of what happened. Much better than Latka's definition of happiness.
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Misogynist . . . the misogynist B-word —
It’s — Biden! Aaaaaaaagh! Noooo!
That wasn't printed on any "progressive" website
I know you were snarkin' there--I'm just sayin'
"Progressive" but not progressive!
Anybody can claim anything, that doesn't make it so. Especially in this case!
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uncle Joe
Remember the last politician we called "uncle Joe"?? (Hint: he wasn't American.)
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Hillary won't drop out
No way. Not a chance.
What's more, this health thing will blow over.
At least until after the election.
One more such episode and she *will lose*,
Probably in a landslide.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Her candidacy may already be doomed
She isn't Bodicca, warrior queen of the Britons, hold up her sword and physically slaying enemies. Nope, Hilliar swooned at the "holy site" of Ground Zero--only days after making an incredibly stupid, insulting remark. We often hear about "optics"--what could be a worse optic than Hide-Away Hillary tumbling like a sack of sugar into into her black ambulance? The Scott Adams article has it correct: we make decisions based on emotion and THEN supply the rational seeming reasons for so doing. I may be wrong about this of course, but I guarantee that one more public crumple WILL finish off her campaign.
Interesting thought. Wonder what would happen if FSC
gets that 'goofy bug-eyed expression' that she had at the Convention (with WJC)?
Would the debate hosts pretend that nothing happened?
Dunno.
I'm guessing that her day-in, day-out appearances will be incredibly scripted, or staged from now on, so that there will be very little chance for 'the rubes' to witness another episode. For instance, she may resort to doing regular (friendly) phone 'call-ins' with hosts like CNN's Anderson Cooper. (as she did a night ago)
OTOH, if Trump's physical really is very good to excellent, and a medical report on him is presented in a serious and convincing manner, it may be possible to turn up the heat on her (perceived health problems), and keep the story alive.
(T's appearing with Dr. Oz, makes it seem a bit unlikely that this will happen, IMO.)
Regardless, it will be difficult for her to live down the 'deplorable' comment. She can't explain it away, since it was part of her prepared remarks (compared to O and R, when they made their respective comments)--and, the event was open to the Press.
IMO, it's very illustrative--all that corporatist Dems have left is identity politics. If that weren't so, why on earth would anyone even consider doing/saying what she said?
Whew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Update: Misty May has been adopted. Yeah!
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Deplorable is Not a Gaffe, and Not a Problem.
It's quite true, in fact. I think many Americans, especially of the liberal and sensible conservative persuasion are terrified of Drumpf and his army of Red Hats.
It's not going to cost her in the least, IMO.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Points well taken, but, FSC will need
(in the industrial mid-West) some of the so-called Reagan Dem votes to win this nomination, from what I've heard from Gallup and Pew pollsters on XM Radio.
And, it's one thing to think it (since bigotry is deplorable), and quite another to make such a pronouncement in a mocking manner, publicly--lumping all of his supporters into the category of bigots.
Plus, for a politician to label any group of potential constituents as 'irredeemable,' is truly tone deaf. There couldn't be a more disparaging remark, than that.
(She should have at least qualified the remark with 'some.' Clarification after the fact, is useless, IMO.)
Actually, you said it well--it probably will play well with some, or most of the folks that she already has in her tent--some liberals (since we know that many won't vote for her), partisan Dems, and corporatist Republicans who are socially liberal and fiscally conservative.
But, what she's bleeding, now, is Independent voters, and working-class Democrats--that is, white men, the primary target of her remarks, it seems.
Me and mine are left of the late Howard Zinn. But, in the final analysis, we cast our votes based upon economic issues.
IOW, we'll vote for the most anti-neoliberal candidate; in this case, it will be a third party vote (if Dr Stein has ballot access, here), or a write-in vote.
Hey, I don't have a crystal ball, but I do believe that it may throw a toss-up swing state, or two, his way. Pollsters had already pulled a couple of these states out of the Dem column, just days before her remarks. Time will tell.
BTW, really enjoy your videos of Loot and Epic. Hope you continue to post them at CC!
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Update: Misty May has been adopted. Yeah!
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
And, remember...
One half is in the basket, the other half is "desperate" for change. "Desperate" is hardly a compliment either, and there she's referring to the persuadable half of his supporters, while simultaneously reminding everyone that she's not the change candidate that so many of us wanted. I'd call that an epic fail, strategy-wise.
Dr. Stein has ballot access almost everywhere.
Only South Dakota, Nevada, and Oklahoma can't vote for her. Indiana, NC and Georgia are write-in states. She's on the ballot for the rest plus DC.
The economics of her Power to the People plan include (http://www.jill2016.com/plan):
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Thanks, EC! She's gained access since I called local Board. NT
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
The final deadlines were last week, I think. The final tallies a
few days later. Now it's time to concentrate on getting her known everywhere and liked!
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Reagan Dems are mostly dead now.
Good luck getting them revived. "Reagan Dems" are probably libertarian.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Hi, RL! Did you see the piece posted at EB
late last year, about the Reagan Dems?
After a massive survey was taken, it was determined that many of these folks dropped out of voting for President for several cycles (after Reagan), but remained registered as Democrats.
Apparently, many of Trump's supporters are these conservative-leaning Reagan Democrats--they're not traditional, or registered Republicans.
This turn of events has alarmed the Leaders of the usually Democratic-supporting trade unions, whose membership is composed mostly of white working-class males; many of whom--to their Leadership's dismay--are supporting Trump in large numbers.
So, I think that most of them didn't switch to the Republican or Libertarian Parties--but, that they simply went dormant--until someone spoke to their concerns, such as free trade, loss of industrial jobs, etc.
Hey, just found that piece. Hope you take a peak--I thought it was sorta interesting. I may repost this at EB, since it was posted before the huge migration, here.
Hey, have a good one!
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
I don't expect her to drop out either
I just no longer expect her to win.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
She still has all that lovely
election-rigging apparatus.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
The primaries were a private party
Trump's bully boys are going to be watching the general like a hawk. And Putins hackers will be part of the traffic jam at the internet ports, joining the already documented packets coming from Iran and China.
So I think the general will be a lot harder to fix.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
What to speak of Mossad (Stuxnet? Stux-vote?) and Anonymous. n/t
I don't know. Given the fact they were friends before they were
opponents, and the number of unforced errors on Trump's side, I still think maybe he's a plant and doesn't really want to win.
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The WH
will be a continuous Weekend with Hillary.
'Prop her there,......... yeah that looks realistic............. wait, move the leg a little bit'.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
It's interesting that Obama is now out
speechifying/standing in for Hillary.
Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Obama doing a good surrogate job
it's amazing to me that he didn't have time to deal with Wisconsin but as soon as he's needed by the Hills campaign, there he is, reciting the talking points.
Maybe he finally found those comfortable shoes and he's going
to wear them for the benefit of a Clinton, something he never did for ANY worker in American.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
I thought something bad about the President
but with the recent discussions, since it involves a bad word, I can't write it.
But I'll say this, with the understatement of the year: He's been a disappointment to me.
You know, I missed all that. And when I finally started catching
on that there had been a 'discussion' of some sort on the type of verbiage that should be used here, I couldn't find the threads.
Obama and disappointment are two words that just naturally go together. The only difference in opinion among people should be the degree to which they believe he 'failed'.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
There are people who say that Obama has been the best
president since FDR. They also say that he's ended two wars and hasn't started any new ones. Even though the war in Afghanistan is going to continue after he leaves office, there are troops back in Iraq. Libya has been blown up and is infested with terrorists and the Libyan people are fleeing.
He, Hillary and the CIA gave his moderate terrorists the sarin nerve gas that they tried to onblame Assad so that he could have an excuse to remove him. And even though Assad wasn't the one that gassed over a thousand people, he still wants Assad gone.
Then there's what he has or hasn't done here in the Homeland
He let millions of people lose their homes while the banks continued their fraudulent dealings with them and didn't bother to stop the banks or help people stay in their homes.
There were many attorney generals in other states that were bringing lawsuits against the banks and Holder said let's join them into one big class action lawsuit and then only fined the banks a few million dollars and not only didn't bring charges against them, he didn't help the people stay in their homes.
He watched as more and more blacks wer gunned down by the cops, yet his DOJ never stepped in.
Chicago illegally held people and denied them access to a lawyer and tortured some of them, yet where is his DOJ?
Income inequality has gotten worse since he has become president, but what has he done about it? Why he has spent 7 years working on the TPP which will see more jobs lost and our regulatory agencies become toothless because of the ISDS.
I could go on and on, but you all know how bad and weak a president he has been, but his bots keep saying that he has been the best present since FDR!
I don't know what they are smoking but I want some of it.
Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?
Libyans are fleeing? Heck, all of Africa is fleeing
Fleeing across the Mediterranean, some drowning, trying to reach the E.U.
Fleeing through the giant hole NATO created when it overthrew Gaddafi.
(Naturally, NATO / Saudi Arabia / Israel / Turkey / Qatar are angling to repeat that “success” with Assad.)
One of these days the world is going to catch on, and take all the Council on Foreign Relations people and quarantine them on a remote island somewhere, like Napoleon.
Edited to add link (BBC, in April):
Migrant crisis: “My wife and my baby drowned in front of me”
Elba is way too beautiful for those
Council of Foreign Relations folks. Make that "Barter Island", they can trade their skills there among themselves... really a cool place.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Is St Helena far enough away?
That was where Napoleon was exiled to, the second time - and he never got back from there.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
yes, very sad, Obama never lived in Africa and clearly
has inhaled some US propaganda cool aid (work hard, go to Harvard, believe in the meme, that if you are black and have no means, you can still make it (as Michelle Obama has proven)). I guess both didn't want to admit that they were "looking over" something, like the poverty in Africa and the Afro-American communities in the US.
They both haven't become a victim of this class society and so they believe in the meme. It's in a way tragic, I think. Now you deal with all the criticism of Obama, which is considered racist, but isn't, and everybody is stuck in it. Both sides can't get out of their perceptions.
May be one day, one will come to the point to be grateful to Obama to have been too anxious and hesitant to rock the boat, because it's coming, and folks will drown in the millions, including his grandkids. Then people might think, oh, Obama at least postponed the big crash to future Presidents' times. Huzzah!
https://www.euronews.com/live
Those people
are completely delusional:
I wouldn't even smoke whatever they're smoking. To read some of them lately, it looks to me like once they're stoned, it's a permanent state....
Probaby the best discussion was in Joe's diary, if you really
want to know, "The most consequential debate..." It's still at the top of the community featured list with 240 comments!
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He was nothing but
a bait and switch from day one. The neoliberal Third Way'ers probably started grooming him way back when he was a supposed community organizer. They used the racist obstructionism to give him cover with his sell outs. Was he the victim of racism of course but that doesn't have a damn thing to do with the racist global and domestic neoliberal/neocon policy and agenda he implemented. He was a talented con man. Lately his 'act' and bs. rhetoric has been terrible. His arrogance about the TPP for one thing and his amping up the bombings and killing in the ME and globally.
I dunno...
I could see Bernie supporters, like me, losing their freakin minds if they picked Biden but maybe a lot of them would vote for him because...he ain't hillary. I think he's almost as bad as her. Almost. All Biden would be is 4 more years of Obama. If it happens I'm still going with Jill. If they put Kaine in it would be beyond stupid. He'd do worse than clinton.
Now Bernie OTOH. Wouldn't that be sweet. But "The Real Owners of this Country" will never let that happen...
No f*cking way I vote for Joe.
The only acceptable replacement for Hillary is Bernie (for me).
Barring that, my vote (such as it is) will be a protest vote in some form.
Is it just me?
but Kaine seems like a real goofball.
No, a lot of real progressives were torn because of the prospect
of our first woman President. Also, he didn't campaign for anything and it is simply unfair to do that to Bernie. I'd rather see O'Malley, at least he expressed interest in the job, and probably would have done well had Bern not been in the primary.
Biden? No, then that would prove that they're not serious about needing a win against Trump. By rights if she can't run, the nom should go to Bern. I won't forgive them for that, and I don't think most will, even those who are reluctantly with her right now.
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No votes.
When Donald Trump says "I'm the only candidate that won my nomination fair and square, through the will of the people" what are the Democrats going to say?
"You're racist! You're crazy! You're evil!"
In other words, the same talking points they've been hammering for nine months.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
No votes.
When Donald Trump says "I'm the only candidate that won my nomination fair and square, through the will of the people" what are the Democrats going to say?
"You're racist! You're crazy! You're evil!"
In other words, the same talking points they've been hammering for nine months.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
they hate Bernie. He *won't* be the nominee
this year or ever. They'd select Elizabeth Warren before they'd select Bernie.
Bernie did the unforgiveable. He was an indie. In addition,
like Nader, Bernie pointed out that the Democratic Party was more like the Republican Party than it was like the people it was pretending to champion.
Bernie is the kid in the fairy tale who said the Emperor had no clothes--and he became a U.S. Senator anyway. He was Toto, pulling the curtain open while the Democratic Party politicians were furiously spinning the wheels. Then, when he thought running as a Democratic might be useful to him, he did. They will not be able to forgive that.
Endorsing Hillary and campaigning for her were not enough to dig him far enough out of a 30 year hole to be made nominee if Hillary drops out. Besides, even though he wants to defeat Trump, he is still a populist philosophically, and the establishment cannot forgive that, either. So, he has two huge strikes against him.
I doubt she will drop out. If they have to replace her though, the Democratic Party will not look to Sanders, no matter how many primary votes he got.
Hillary won't drop out...but if she does...
they'll pick Biden or some other "centrist", saying they're replacing her with someone whose thinking and policies are close to Hillary's.
And what of Bernie saying he and Hillary are so close on so many issues? Well, since it's BS it'll be easy to run right over that.
IMO, if he can deliver the youth or millennial vote,
I don't think there will be anything to forgive.
Now, if he had refused to come on board, or endorse her--and Dems were to lose this November--well, that would be an entirely different situation. (And, I suppose it could happen--time will tell.) In that case, he probably would have hell to pay.
Of course, for the same reasons that you've mentioned--I agree that the Dem Party would never allow a 'populist' candidate to be their nominee.
And, after this cycle, I expect that Repubs will put some new mechanism(s) into play--so that there will never be another DT. Remember, Repubs did everything within their power/rules to defeat him. And, Dems were just lucky--they had an easier system to rig.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
He can't.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Hi, CStS--good to see ya. I agree that millennial
voters won't turnout in as large a numbers for FSC--as they would have for Bernie. I think that what he needs to accomplish for November, is to turn out enough millennials to tip the scales in her favor--and, at least, loosely, help put together the so-called 'O Coalition'.
My primary point was that as long as he campaigns for her--and reporter Glenn Thrush said before the Dem Convention that FSC's campaign wants/plans to have him campaign mostly in college towns--I think that the Dem Leadership will be satisfied, and won't retaliate against him.
IOW, I interpreted a comment above to be saying that Bernie would probably be a outcast [in the Dem Party] now, and I don't see it that way.
Definitely, I agree that the Dem Leadership will not allow him to have the nomination, no matter how ill FSC is, or may become.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Update: Misty May has been adopted. Yeah!
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
He will be an outcast
in that no one will help him with anything he wants policy-wise, legislation-wise, from here on out. But no further punishment will be forthcoming.
That's how I see it--
Good to see ya too, UL.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Does anyone know whether Bernie might have some legal
recourse? Do we as citizens have legal recourse?
They can't just "appoint" someone. That is decidedly undemocratic.
It isn't as obvious to everyone that the system is rigged, but surely such action would pull back the curtain just a bit!
It is our responsibility to point a finger and shout, should that happen. We need to maximize the degree to which that curtain is pulled.
Probably not and probably not
although Sanders *might* have some recourse if he really did hang onto his delegates after all.
Beyond that, the DNC--whatever they were called back then--chose Hubert Humphrey once Robert Kennedy was cut down. So I'm pretty sure there's some kind of precedent in their private by-laws.
Our problem here--and the reason why WE probably have zero recourse--is that we let private companies take over our politics.
True about Humphrey
but that was also when very few states had primaries, and most delegates were chosen by state party bosses anyway. There was a far lower expectation of voter input in the process at the time. But the bylaws do seem to reflect the "party selection" mechanism of the old days.
think you're both right in a way
Legal recourse? No, the parties have that covered, I'm sure.
However, it's possible they don't like these optics. It makes it difficult to maintain the pretense of a popular mandate.
I am having difficulty deciding whether or not they really want that--they certainly seem to want to maintain the pretense, but there's a devil-may-care quality about the Clinton campaign that suggests either the oligarchy is really trying to pick a fight, and wants to tear the pretense of representative government to shreds, or else Hillary Clinton hasn't got a fucking clue who to hire to manage her PR. Or maybe has such poor impulse control that she's unmanageable as a candidate.
In which case, why the F didn't they just run Biden to begin with. Yes, we have reasons to dislike him, and yeah, he's not the greatest candidate, but he could have probably beaten Trump a lot more solidly than HRC.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Ripping It to Shreds...
As long as government gets a black eye, corporate is stoked.
There's a book I got recently, the Fourth Revolution by an Economist lead editor Micklethwait that, I think lays it all out -- euphemistically, of course, wink wink, nudge nudge...
I can't bring myself to read it, though. I'm not a fan of putting rotten things into my brain -- you can't un-think things.
But I could totally see a pliant President or no President at all mindset by the Masters of the Universe. I think Drumpf was accepted initially because he fits the no President at all, and definitely would give government a black eye.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
The idea is
that we're supposed to be so relieved to be rid of Hillary that we accept the final,definitive loss of anything resembling representative government.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
If that's their idea and they find it to be sound,
well, all I can say is "Please welcome your new Dark Overlord, President Donald Trump"
Good gawd, I can't even bear to type that...he doesn't scare me, I just find it embarrassing to even contemplate.
Then they will lose.
Hopefully they'll lose to Jill, not Trump; but without Hill or Bern, they lose.
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I agree on both counts. If not Biden, then Vilsack or some other
"good soldier."
What's this about "Who they "select?"
Bernie is the only one possible because he got nearly half the delegates(most likely more than half before it got "fixed by team Clinton.")
He alone is next in line.
Bernie Sanders the Winner B4 TC fixed it.
Sanders 2016
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” ~Benjamin Franklin
Apparently The Rules Allow That...
I read somewhere, on c99p I think, that the committee voting for the new nominee of their choice was one of the paths allowed by either the convention rules or the bylaws, or maybe both. If they have that option, or can even make a credible case they do, they will most certainly exercise that option. No way in hell Bernie will ever be president - they'd kill him first. And short of that, you can be damn sure they'll nominate whoever the hell they want without concern for any rules or bylaws, and tie Bernie up in court until after the election if he tries to fight it. The meme will be "oops, too late now, the inauguration is already done - can't have the supremes bounce a sitting president after all."
You seem to be under the misapprehension
that we have some kind of republic here.
Not true, even strictly speaking legally, as the parties have the right to choose whomever they want, apparently, as "private clubs" that determine, somehow, who the great masses of the public get to vote for in the general.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Good Old Joe Turns 74 In November
Four years older than Reagan when he took office. A new record!
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
Four years older and four tenths of an I,Q. point smarter
That is 4/10, and that is being kind.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
And don't you dare question his health
because that'll mean you're a HATER.
He does have outstandingly white teeth, I'll give him that! n/t
Probably dentures, given his age.
Oral hygiene was spottier 75 years ago.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
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