One of the few reasons to vote Libertarian just vanished
Libertarians have always been a mixed bag for me.
I absolutely abhor their neoliberal, Social Darwinian view on society and the economy.
On the other hand, I like their pro-liberty views, such as anti-Big Brother spying, and decriminalizing things that have no victims, such as the War on Some Drugs.
They also had one other policy I liked - anti-Empire/foreign wars.
At least that is how I thought they were. Maybe I was wrong.
“What would you do if you were elected about Aleppo?" Mike Barnicle asked Gary Johnson on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.”“About?” Johnson asked.
“Aleppo,” Barnicle repeated, referring to Syria’s second-largest city, which has been hit in recent weeks by a series of devastating chemical gas attacks and targeted bombing strikes on its few remaining medical facilities.
“And what is Aleppo?” Johnson asked sunnily, to the astonishment of the “Morning Joe” hosts.
“You’re kidding,” Barnicle said.
“No,” Johnson replied.
“Aleppo is in Syria. It’s the epicenter of the refugee crisis,” Barnicle said.
“Okay got it, got it,” Johnson said. “Well with regard to Syria I do think that it’s a mess. I think the only way that we deal with Syria is to join hands with Russia to diplomatically bring that to an end.”
The former New Mexico governor attributed the turmoil in Syria to “regime change.”
I guess foreign policy just doesn't interest Gary Johnson, and that's not satisfactory for a presidential candidate.
I like his approach, although it is far more complicated than that. (Hint: think Iran and Turkey)
Comments
I don't know
I'm of mixed mind.
On one hand, Aleppo is sort of a big deal. It's not like someone asked him the national bird of Uruguay. Then, of course, is his rather shocking solution to the problem he doesn't understand.
But on the other hand, isn't this consistent (if somewhat extreme) with worrying about our own stuff and letting our neighbors worry about theirs? Isn't there something to be said for, "Bunch of guys far away killing each other. The best thing to do is nothing."?? Therefor it's not that urgent I be intimately aware of it.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
Gary Johnson
I liked (Libertarian) Ron Paul quite a lot, because not only was he is anti-Empire, anti-War, anti-Orwell, anti-Patriot Act, anti-TSA, etc., and supportive of whistleblowing, routing out corruption in high places, .... he was also going right to the root cause: The Rothschilds Central Bank takeover of our Country (Federal Reserve Act of 1913) and our political system.
If a private group has full control for the creation of all money, and the ability to freely manipulate the supply (purchasing power) at will, and also impose debt upon the government (people) by these actions -- then this group has unlimited power way above and beyond the government, and is able to act as Master of the Universe -- and rob and rig the Economy, bribe the government to the teeth, accelerate wealth upwards to the top, and infiltrate many systems of control (Media, Industry). This is how we became totally under the control of globalist banksters, and why perpetual Global War and internal deIndustrialization strangely became our Country's new mission (over the last 100 years), instead of just being a happy democratic Republic protecting Liberty here at home. We are today nothing more than a host instrument, and tool for the Big Banking families. There is no (independent) America.
Ron Paul was well aware of this, and constantly attacked the Federal Reverse system.
Gary Johnson is a disappointment of two levels: 1). He does not have the same knowledge about the corruption of Central Banks on a society and therefore is not trying to contest the Federal Reserve system, and 2). he also supports all the corrupt "Free Trade" agreements that have deIndustrialized the United States and moved our jobs and Industries overseas by design.
So Gary Johnson biggest problem is not anything to do with Foreign Policy -- which he is really very good on -- but on these other two pillars of Libertarian thought.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1_L30JXpaY width:640 height:480]
JP Morgan family had nothing to do with it?
Lots and LOTS of corrupt bankers then and now, all of them suspect, all of them related primarily by addiction to MONEY MONEY MONEY.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Nobody said that Morgan is not involved...
It's a Cartel, and these robber baron families (JP Morgan, Rockefeller, Warburg, Rothschild, etc.) work together to create the agenda of Oligarchy (and "New World Order") , and plunder the World into debt and monetary slavery (along with the oppression and corruption that follows from that).
But as the first video explained, the fact is that the very top of the pyramid, and the original architects of this whole corrupt "Central Bank" debt-money system of control is, and has always been, the Rothschilds -- they call the shots, and are the puppet masters.
---
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzyOtl4MDC4 width:640 height:480]
Paranoia runs deep / Into your life it will creep
- Wikipedia; emphasis added.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
whitewash
FACT:
That's your "proof"?
Source, please? (And it had better not have originated at a hate site!)
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
I would like to suggest that,
in order to run for POTUS in this country, you must meet the following criteria:
1. Have an IQ over 115;
2. Take a test that grills you on your knowledge of the Constitution, particularly the Bill of Rights;
3. Take a test that grills you on your knowledge of foreign affairs, both current and past; and
4. Take a test that grills you on your knowledge of how government functions (what are the 3 branches of government?, etc. etc.).
I'd also like to suggest that we make sure the person running has a good emotional IQ as well, but that would pretty much wipe out the entire pool of candidates, so nevermind.
Grr. I hate this election.
I miss Colorado.
I'd also like to suggest that
I'm fine with "none of the above" as an option.
You forgot a lie detector test.
At press conferences, debates, rallies and any other place they are speaking to the public, they should be hooked up to a lie detector with a projector showing the needle as they talk.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I didn't forget it, actually.
I left it out on purpose, lol, because how unlikely is it that a politician will tell the truth?
But, I guess if I'm compiling a wish list, repeated and public lie detector tests are an excellent idea.
I miss Colorado.
Better than 90% accuracy
What is really needed is a Truth Detector: for telling when they're lying you mostly look to see if their lips are moving.
Don't forget
the lie detector would be hooked up to an electric shock machine.
Uuuhhhh
I don't think I could stand the smell or sight of electro-bbq'ed Clinton.
Electronic Pinocchio noses
that were triggered and grew with each lie would be fun.
I think I would lie just to watch the nose grow
"Electronic Pinocchio noses"
Beware the bullshit factories.
Well, at least if he doesn't know where it is
He won't bomb it.
That's what Lackeys are for.
Or handlers.
Now interviewing signature candidates. Apply within.
Johnson explained
I didn't see or hear it, but friend say he was later on some talk show & did a good job of explaining himself.
I kinda like him - seems honest. Bill Weld very well liked here in MA - expect he's going to help them here. Heck, if Scott Brown can win - still makes me laugh to think about that.
OK. Maybe I was harsh on Gary
He released this humble statement this morning. I can't picture Hillary or Donald saying this.
Jill >>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>Hillary > Trump nt
Beware the bullshit factories.
no, not harsh on Johnson
Note that he says he was "hit with" Aleppo. As if it were one of those Gotcha questions Sarah Palin complained about. Those pesky interviewers, asking something I didn't tell them to ask!
Context?
What was the question or topic before that? Was the subject Syria? Refugees? Or did Aleppo appear out of nowhere?
Yeah I can say the word "Aleppo" to a knowledgeable person
In a fast way and out of nowhere and make it seem like the other person is clueless. "Crazy weather we're having here. WhatdoyouthinkaboutLeppo?"
Beware the bullshit factories.
reading the transcript, yes, no real transition
http://time.com/4483779/gary-johnson-aleppo-transcript/
Thanks for the transcript.
Not to fully excuse Johnson, since he's running for president and I'm not, but I would likely have a brain fart if the topic suddenly switched from Ralph Nader to Aleppo, Syria.
Not making excuses, but he was in the east coast studio at the
time. He lives in New Mexico. It is a morning show. I am guessing there may have been some jet lag and maybe some anxiety, too.
Nonetheless despite the "you're kidding" remark and condescending explanation, Johnson recovered immediately and gave his plan for Syria as a whole, And that brings up another point: Is there really a solution to Aleppo and only Aleppo, or does it have to be a plan for Syria in general? I think the later. So, perhaps it was a dumb question in the first place.
Johnson should have said, "Of course! I'm just so used to the the Arabic names of Syrian cities."
(Sorry. Assigning English names to cities and nations, rather than trying to approximate the actual names just seems so arrogant to me.)
I am not trying to make a case for Johnson. I am saying only that I can empathize.
Maybe Gary's perceived trashing by the media
will encourage him to join Jill in online debates....soon.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Nope, never Libertarian for me
all that talk about getting out of the wars is just that - talk. Once he's in office, if he actually were to be elected, he'd roll over for the MIC like they all do. And really, I feel like we all know that by now. And then there's the Shill and her remarks last night that she'd "never" send troops to Iraq with a nice headline saying as much in the NYT today. Uh huh, sure, we believe that. But in her triangulated way, that probably actually IS true - she'll send them to Libya and Syria instead. OR maybe Iran, that's the big one she wants to go after, "real men want to go to Tehran" not Baghdad, after all.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
She doesn't plan to send troops anywhere. Our troops are
reasonably safe under Hill. What she will do is arm the local forces who are in opposition to ISIS. Who are they? Al Qaeda. Funny, she never mentions that part. Not to repeatedly promote my own diary or anything, but it's a handy quick reference, each in their own words, with the money quotes transcribed, http://caucus99percent.com/content/video-news-open-thread-jill-hill-trum...
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You actually beleive what she says?
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Nope, but if you know the history, her own words condemn her.
And it's continuing the "great tradition". This is what Obama and Bush the Stupid have done. Drone attacks, pretend there's almost no "collateral damage" (sounds lots nicer than murder of innocent bystanders, doesn't it?), minimize danger to Americans therefore it's politically palatable, never mention that we have armed all sides of the conflict (exactly as Jill explains - I looked it up). And especially never admit that the folks she wants to arm are Al Qaeda. It's one of the issues I think we need to make plain to everyone we encounter - she wants to arm Al Qaeda, she has said so herself.
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I agree. I say, vote for Johnson and Weld if income/wealth
inequality is at the bottom of your list of issues that you care about.
He's listed at 'On The Issues' as an endorser of raising the Social Security retirement age to age '75.' (it didn't specify Early, or Full Retirement Age)
When I've heard him being interviewed on XM Radio (there are numerous libertarian/austerian hosts who have him on POTUS Channel), all he talks about is prison/incarceration reform, and legalization of marijuana. Personally, I can't imagine deciding my vote on either of those issues, alone. (Not that I don't consider them important--I do. But, they would not seal the deal for me, by any stretch of the imagination.)
Worse than that are Johnson's tax 'reform' proposals. Of course, it's a conservative's dream come true--to abolish all income taxes, estate taxes, and even payroll taxes, *in order to lower the marginal tax rates for wealthy individuals, to 23 percent. (Simultaneously, raising it considerably for the lowest income folks.)
BTW, the latter is the necessary step to price-indexing Social Security monthly benefits, resulting (eventually) in the same flat-rate stipend for all beneficiaries.
Oh, and he's praises FSC's 'revenue neutral'/budget balancing agenda--another red flag (for me).
[Edit: Added partial and full sentence, beginning at asterik.]
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Update: Misty May has been adopted. Yeah!
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Agreed, I'd never encourage voting for him if he had a prayer
of winning. But since he doesn't, I think it would be an epic splitting of the "conservative" vote. Trump deserves to be at the bottom of the pile with Her Heinous right next to him.
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Hill will "never send troops to Iraq"
However the oil rich countries surrounding Iraq are a different matter.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Except she already did - when W was President.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Exactly. Her votes suggest no reluctant to go to war, to "surge"
wars, to create no fly zones (and claim "no boots on the ground") or to topple existing heads of state. She is a neocon neoliberal.
Aren't there 'troops'
already in Iraq? Didn't Obama in some surge or another up the troop level there. I remember the current puppet president of Iraq objecting loudly. Fallujah? Mercenaries? At any rate The Mad Bomber is lying. Look at Libya and she was the SoS not the commander in chief. Fly overs in Syria just like the number the Clinton's did on Iraq. Ho many kids and people did that 'gate holding' for the Bushies kill.
I have to admit, if you asked me what would I do about Aleppo,
with no context, on a bad day I'd have no idea what you were talking about either. It sounds like a clown (there was a Beppo).
But in general I like Johnson's ideas about the military conflicts - cut off their funding. http://caucus99percent.com/content/video-news-open-thread-jill-hill-trum...
Anyway, there is still a YUUGE orange reason to vote Libertarian. I'm trying to convince all those conservatives who won't vote Jill in a million years to vote Gary.
Wouldn't it be Hillarious if the final vote in November was Jill 50%, Gary 30%, Hill 15%, Trump 5%?
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"No man, having put his hand to the campaign trail plow, and
and then claiming to have been 'hit with Aleppo' first thing in the morning, is fit for the crown of POTUS." ISayeth 99:98
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Good one! Nevertheless, I'd say give him a break - he's a
Libertarian, after all. Chances are he'd been smoking some fine herbs in preparation for his interview.
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What I've heard from Gary Johnson
so far, leads me to believe that he isn't very well-informed about much of anything. He might be preferable to both Trump and Clinton, but that sure isn't saying very much.
native
That's such a low bar.
Christ, at this point, Dubya may actually be better than both of 'em. I can't even believe I just typed that sentence.
I miss Colorado.
No doubt, Shiz
Only Clinton and Trump can make GW look reasonable.
ack!
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
I almost regret not voting Romney last time.
I need a shower now.
Romney really blew it this time
He truly could have been president had he ran this time. He'd certainly be leading Hillary by double digits right now!
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush
Or would he have suffered the same date as Bush?
Bush had a bad date?
Serves him right - a married man dating.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
I think one two things happened
Mr. 47% realized the party base was going to go populist after years of corporate tools like Romney and decided to stay out. But he ill be back in 2020 after the plebes have gotten populism out of their system and are once again ready to submit to their betters. Alternately, he's betting on the inevitable recession coming down the pike - ruining any hope for a second term for whoever wins in 2016 - and popping back up in 2020 as the great white savior here to bestow another "Massachusetts Miracle" on the nation as a whole.
Bonus third theory: in 2020 Romney switches parties and runs as the Democrat. Given the way the Democrat* party has drifted to the right, if they keep it up Romney will be a liberal Democrat.
But I could be wrong.
* Intentional slur used to raise the blood pressure of any TOS lurkers who happen to read this.
I got into an argument with someone
on YouTube (low-hanging fruit, I know), who acted like Gary Johnson was the second coming of Christ. One thing that really stood out was that when I confronted them about Johnson's support of the TPP, they said that "well he only supports it based on what he's been told."
The idea of a presidential candidate who supports something based on only what they've been told, instead of doing their own research on the matter, TERRIFIES ME. I'm sure that Johnson would still agree with it even if he did so, but "he's just basing his opinion on what other people have told him" was quite possibly the worst argument that person could have made.
Economic: -9.13, Social: -8.56
How the Hell can someone espousing personal responsibility
can support TPP is mind-boggling. TPP is the surrender of our nation's sovereignty and thus every citizen's right to personal determination. Personal determination of a person's own actions is what I thought Libertarianism is all about--or maybe they just mean, no fetters on Corporations and fuck you peasants.
They advocate laissez-faire capitalism.
So, of course they support TPP. What's Obama's excuse? Of course Hillary used to support it, negotiated it, now doesn't support it. Except did anyone notice if her fingers were crossed? But then there's the general rule - if Hillary's mouth is open then she's lying.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
What you didn't bold was far more important:
I'm sure Hillary knows where Allepo is - probably because it's been on her Top 10 "Places to Bomb" list for about five years now.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
David Koch Was Libertarian VP
Check it out:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koch
And still keeping it afloat:
http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/19/exclusive-david-koch-pledges-millions-...
Economic freedom for corporations. Very limited civil liberties for people.
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
Even if Johnson were to win,
do you think the Congress will cooperate with him? Who WILL Congress cooperate with? We're fucked - bottom line.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Yes, Congressional (R)'s will support him
because their
donorsowners will order them to. He's the second coming of RR.Neoliberals will say something about "I had to vote for it because otherwise the country will disintegrate". Did you forget so quickly how the TARP and permanent tax cuts were passed and signed by Obama?
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Libertarians?? No Way.
Libertarians are just Rapepublicans who support legal marijuana.
Want to live in a libertarian paradise? Go to Somalia.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Your comment closest to my reply to this diary
More accurately, Johnson is just a rapepublican who wants to smoke weed.
As the GOP becomes more and more toxic, you are seeing the Libertarian Party being taken over by the GOP.
True libertarian-ism as defined by Robert Heinlein is not what the Libertarian Party of today is by any means. It's been hijacked.
There is no real Libertarian party just like there really isn't a "Democratic" Party as evidenced by this past year.
When I was a kid, Republicans used to red scare people, now it's the Democrats. I am getting too damn old for this crap!
Au contraire!
Libertarians actually are divided on marijuana. Half are pro marijuana, and half aren't.
This is "gotcha" bullshit
This "Aleppo" nonsense is almost as stupid as the whisper campaign against Jill Stein that she is anti-vax. I got my chuckle out of it, but Johnson remains my second choice. I'll take his momentary lapse over Clinton's imperialism or Trump's nuttiness any day.
U.S. media love meaningless distractions.
They will pay more attention to this meaningless foot fault than to what Johnson said he would do about Syria. What Johnson said he would do about Syria is relatively meaningless, too, in that this Johnson will never be POTUS. However, what Johnson would do about Syria is considerably less meaningless than whether Johnson, who probably had had little sleep, immediately focused on the fact that Aleppo is a Syrian city and not A.L.E.P.P.O., the main rival of A.L.E.C.
Johnson knows he is not going to be President and so does Mike Barnicle and the rest of the cast of Morning Joe. That line of questioning is almost silly. What Johnson thinks Should be done with Aleppo is less silly. What he thinks Hillary or Trump might do with Aleppo and how we might stop Hillary and Trump from their disastrous foreign policies.
With Johnson, I would have focused on how inadequate the (supposedly) two-party system has become for the needs of most Americans, while it has become harder than even for newer parties. (It has always been hard for them.) I would have asked Johnson why he decided to run at all, knowing he is not going to win, why newer political parties get squeezed out, what, if anything can be done to ameliorate that and so on. And why political party is the biggest determinant of how people vote, even if they think their party's nominee is an utter disaster.
We let media play establishment games, pretending the playing field is both adequate and level, so everyone who runs has an equal shot. And, we also become beguiled by the things they use to distract us. We should be denouncing and mocking our media as much as Russians denounced and mocked Pravda. Our corporate media is a bigger government propaganda tool than Armed Forces Radio. Or a Tokyo Rose broadcast.
Da, Komerad!
No pravda in Izvestia. No isvestia in Pravda.
Sums up modern American journalism too.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Libertarians are generally good on civil liberties issues
They're just awful on everything else. I can't see ever voting for one. This is just the worst election.
I'm voting for Jill, even if I was the deciding vote here in Florida.
I will if she dumps her VP for racist comments.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
At this point,
she's the best choice, racist VP or not. The latter point is debatable anyway. To not vote for Stein means you must vote for Hillary or Trump or Johnson, or not vote at all.
Libertarianism is simply not going to provide the changes we desperately need in government.
Vote for whomever you'd like
She isn't going to be president anyway. I'm laying down a protest vote from the left.
True
No hope at all here in Illinois.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Anyone who has seen a documentary on Aleppo
would never forget the name, even if someone woke them in the middle of the night and asked "what about Aleppo?" Anyone running for POTUS should be well-informed and interested enough in the world to be able to know something about Aleppo. It's the city of double-bombing where bombers return to bomb the rescuers. It's being turned into rubble. He didn't even know that it was a city. It's a city so tragic that I find his ignorance unforgivable.
To thine own self be true.
on the other hand, his error has brought a lot of
needed attention to Aleppo. That's a good thing.
To thine own self be true.
As I recall he did know. Just had a brain fart.
Hillary has them all the time but she is such an accomplished liar that she can keep up a stream of diversion while avoiding the question.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
“What would you do if you were elected about hjklly?"
"First I would bring all the experts together, from both sides of the aisle and hammer out a consensus opinion. Then I would appoint top level people to execute that policy", An all purpose politician answer and probably what Hillary would say. Do you prefer that to honesty?
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Forget Johnson, what about the NYT?
Redacted Tonight educated me on the repeated bumbling by the NYT on Aleppo. They looked like idiots. What's their excuse?
b. at Moon of Alabama took delight yesterday
detailing the NYT's four corrections to their own explanations of what "Aleppo" is:
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/09/nyt-ridiculing-of-gary-johnson-fail...
Would be funny if it weren't a classic example of how poorly educated "elite" Americans are and disinterested in anything beyond the east and west coastal corridors of the US.
Only connect. - E.M. Forster
Corporate media...
wants to play gotcha, but not provide substantive information...especially the NYT!
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
The first casualty of war . . .
compounded by an apparent evisceration of the US educational system, which has been going on a loong time.
Only connect. - E.M. Forster
The NYT is not running for election of POTUS n/t
To thine own self be true.