Last night's Sanders call and the reason for it.
Short post because I'm back on the iPhone for a few days. You know how it is. Needed air conditioning the past couple months so it's keep the electricity going or pay Internet (which you can't use without electricity) and somehow find money to pay all this and find someone to borrow something to live on until the 3rd of September (having had 32 cents in the bank for the last 9 days). My daughter Carrie has been an absolute angel and paid for my phone for a couple years. Without her I would' even have that.
NOT ONE WORD OF THAT PARAGRAPH WAS OR IS INTENDED TO ELICIT PITY. BUT IT IS WHY I INTEND TO FOLLOW AND WORK FOR SANDER'S NEW ORGANIZATION. I am poor and elderly and no one else gives a fat rat's ass about people like me, just Sanders. To every other politician out there I am no one, just an elderly 'worthless eater' as Shill's BFF Henry K. would say. This is a chance for people living like me to be heard. I worked for decades, paid my dues, and now I'm expected to shut up and go away. Fuck that!
Last night we had Progressive speakers before the meeting that spoke about every subject that Sanders campaigned on and how we CANNOT just throw up our hands in despair and quit. We need to start pounding doors, throwing house parties, talk talk talk to our neighbors and our community. PUSH BACK AND BUILD OUR OWN PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT. Elect people with progressive ideals and beliefs. He only mentioned 'Secretary Clinton' twice and not in a 'friendly' tone. Nor did he ever once say to cast a vote for her. He also mentioned the Dem 'platform' which he praised as being 'progressive' And he also said a lot of what is on political party platforms gets 'ignored' so we CANNOT depend on the hope that politicians will adhere to it, we must FORCE them to adhere to it. Even if it means taking it to the streets.
One of our speakers was Mr. Frank LeMere, a Winnebago activist trying to shut down the predators in White Clay. Read up on Mr LeMere. Wonderful man. He is a tireless worker who has fought for Native American right's for decades and involved in the endless effort to shut down the pipelines that the government is trying to force on us. And Sanders and every other speaker said that no matter what, the TPP must be stopped by any and all means when Obama tries to sneak it through during the lame duck session.
Long story shortened - a truly PROPGRESSIVE organization is being born and Sanders will not run it or be involved in it's operation. He's going back to the Senate and Jeff Weaver will lead it. Now many of us don't like Weaver but without him Sanders would never gotten as far as he did. This is a gift to us from Sanders. He's laid the groundwork. Now he says everything is up to us. And it is.
But I'm still voting for Stein, which is another thing. He said all people are welcome, but they MUST support progressive ideas and they must be willing to FIGHT for them. This is not a Sanders organisation and it is NOT promoting the Democratic Party. It is promoting the needs and rights of US.
Ending this now because I can't find my glasses and this post has taken me about a half hour to type on this cursed contraption.
Comments
Thanks Amanda!
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
Thank you very much for reading. We've gotta get our poop in a
group (or as it's usually said 'get out shit together).
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Not sure I can agree with this
As Weaver is in the tank for $Hillary, I'm not sure that Weaver actually didn't hold bernie back thereby helping the neo-liberal establishment $Hillary.
I would suggest that Weaver be watched closely to see what he does, because if this is the lefts version of the Tea party being taken over by the Koch brothers I wouldn't want to support that in any way.
When I was a kid, Republicans used to red scare people, now it's the Democrats. I am getting too damn old for this crap!
Great post! Thank you for your incredible leadership.
Well said. Solidarity!
Re your first paragraph:
You might want to check into this program--Free Government Cell Phones.
This program is the only reason I have a phone.
This article gives a bit of background on the program, though the link above is the one you will wwant to choose a program suited to your needs. Something interesting from this article:
This may be something to keep in mind while trying to spread Sanders'/Our Revolution messages.
I liked that Sanders reminded us of the struggles of the past in which people have died to bring about progressive changes. I think the last video that was shown spoke to that also (MLK, etc.). I read or saw something recently that talked about how the people from the 60s did not finish the "job." There was a really good start and some things got done, but then they let their guard down.
I think what Sanders is trying to do is make sure that we don't go to sleep again. If he were to remain in charge of the movement rather than handing it over to us and if something were to happen to him (he is 74 after all), then the movement might peter out much as a lot of the Civil Rights movement did after MLK was assassinated. That is what I call good leadership...teach a person to fish...
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Thank you for the info on the phone! I know the kid has other
Uses for her music money!
And I agree, he's telling us that there is work to be done and it starts now!
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
No problem. The various providers have
different amounts of minutes, so you can find one that works best for you. the phone is inclueded and different providers offer different types, so it is well worth checking out a couple of providers.
I use enTouch as my Lifeline provider and get 250 minutes a month call/text (not sure if that is each as I don't text) and 10MB/mo of web access--so when I get lost, I am covered. = ) For people who use a lot more minutes, I would recommend also getting Skype. For $60/year, I have unlimited outgoing/incoming nationwide calls with my own phone number.
I also have a very cheap smart phone that I only use to connect via WiFi. I use it for reading books mostly as I can check out tons of books from my local library and through a couple of reading apps. Kroger's carries a number of WiFi-oriented phones, and they are often on sale for about $15. I could put Skype on it, but I really do not talk to enough people to do so, and I have never run out of minutes on the Lifeline phone. I use Skype for calling Comcast. = )
I know it's not a fancy phone system, but when it's the difference of having heat in the winter or food on the table, it works amazingly well. (My total phone expenditures per year is the $60 for Skype.)
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Question:
If Jeff Weaver is running the organization, isn't it pretty much his call as to whether or not the thing is part of the Democrats, or otherwise?
The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.
I would expect that often the progressive candidates supported
will be Democrats because in most places this will represent the left wing of the possible. But that doesn't make it a Democratic organization any more than DSA is. I certainly won't be putting my energy and dollars into supporting centrist Democrats. Beyond that ballot initiatives are not Democratic per se. And the kindling of local activists to fight for change at the grassroots level will lead to spontaneous acts that won't be directed from above.
DSA is also a 501(c)4. I'm proud to be a member and support it.
Here's a MSM piece on "the irony" issue with DSA and its support for Sanders and other candidates that support its goals: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/democratic-socialist...
One could see this kind of "irony" all the way back to factory-owner Engels' devoted support for Marx, pointed out in this MSM article: http://www.economist.com/node/14209490
See also http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-friedrich-engels-radical-lover...
Here's DSA's fundraising page: https://dsausa.nationbuilder.com/donate
This is a little dated about its finances: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/133109557
I do want to see information on how Our Revolution will deal with donor information and whether it will have self-imposed rules that go beyond whatever the minimum requirements are.
By the way, DSA also has a 501(c)3: http://fund-dsausa.nationbuilder.com/about
You tell them, sister!!! AMEN!!
I'm really puzzled by all the negative comments, wailing and gnashing of teeth, etc., etc. I didn't see the Bernster's speech last night as I was too fatigued. We crash early most nights anyway.
I refuse to become cynical and give up. Like I wrote over at TPW, there's a BIG difference between being a realist and becoming a cynic. I sure hope the GEN-Xers, and other young folks don't fall into the trap. It's precisely what the yahoos want. REC'D x 100%!!
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
realist == cynic
False. They are identical, just as they have been ever since the times of Diogenes of Sinope.
The middle letters of the English word "believe" spell LIE. There's a reason for that!
Doubt me here? Then answer this question I posted in another thread:
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I don't know the answer to
I don't know the answer to your question. I fear there is no answer.
Diogenes and I....
....... proclaim you an honest man!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
lol!
I'll let people dig it out for themselves!
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
I know the answer, but won't tell you,
because I am a realist and sometimes a humanist and not a cynic. Sorry. And I believe most know in their heart the answer as well.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Personally, I'd suggest
Personally, I'd suggest voting against all evil and spreading the word - fast!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
My plan exactly.
My plan exactly. I'm getting a lot of pushback from known-progressive loved ones (must vote KKKlinton because scary Trump), but I'm more scared that KKKlinton will start a war with fucking Russia than I am of anything The Chump would be able to do. So I'm voting Stein. Likewise, downballot, I'm voting anti-evil as much as possible (Satan presents himself as an angel of light, et al).
With The Chump, it's a pretty sure bet he'd be a Lame Duck from Day 1. The GOP is still trying to find a way to weasel out from under their nominee, for obvious reasons, even now. KKKlinton would be able to work with Congress, and I'm seriously scared of the results.
I also don't consider anyone a Democrat who would not have been recognized as such in a continuously loyal, never-slaveholding State in 1975. That species of Democrat is almost totally extinct today, as the "FDR/JFK Democrats" continue to DemExit in massive numbers. By this standard Hillary Clinton is still the same old Goldwater Girl she always was, but managed to get a "D" after her name courtesy of Bubba and some poor overworked County Clerk in Bumfuck, Arkansas.
One thing we definitely need to change in this country: All former slavery States, seceders or not, need to do their primary election processes last. Let the States who are un-tainted with that crime against humanity vote first and decide who will be running.
(Pissed off, moi?)
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I would appeal to other nations around the world to
censure the US for its warmongering. Thousands/millions of letters/emails/calls/whatever arriving regularly to the powers around the world as well as to international organizations, the international media and even to the public could start to make a dent. Granted they have their own issues with the global corporate takeover, but I really think that most people around the world do not know what is happening (they need to be informed) or do not know what to do either (we need a global anti-war effort)
Without a draft in place in the US, most people here aren't really aware of the death and destruction this country is causing around the world. During Vietnam, there were almost daily pictures of the body bags of US military being unloaded. Thanks to drones, we are not seeing that now...here, anyway.
The wars need to become personal for most people to decide that something needs to be done. Other than global efforts, we also need to find a way to make it known how these wars personally effect the daily lives and pocketbooks of the everyday citizen. It is possible that a lot of that could be done via social media. Flood the Internet and "small" town independent papers with the facts and educate the people (e.g., the bombs that were dropped today cost the same amount as your city's yearly school budget, and more will be dropped tomorrow.)
As long as other countries put up with or sanction US aggression, the wars will continue. Maybe they need a reminder of just why they are getting swamped by refuges and other problems that are putting their own countries at risk. I can picture many, many days of global anti-war protests, and it is a pleasant picture. Can you see it?
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
As I've been saying for twenty years now:
General strike. It increasingly seems to me that this is probably the very last tactic short of violence that's going to have any effect.
Deny them your money, your labor and your participation. What are they gonna do? All the protesters (strikers) are at home, so your tear gas, tasers, guns and LRAD are useless. You can't flashbang every house in the US.
You can't force people into their work places at gun point.
If you can, you still can't force them to work and if you do, there's nothing to prevent the work from being sabotaged. People will always do whatever they can to resist once they have no choice.
I've been waiting twenty years for critical mass to be reached. I think it's close - Bernie woke up a lot of people at once - but I fear we aren't yet there, and organized resistance is going to become exponentially harder quite soon.
The first thing we need - something we should be working on now - is some way to communicate and organize, working as though there's no such thing as the Internet, because there very well might not be if TPP is passed. If we start something now, it will be in place for organizing such a strike when enough people have nothing left to lose.
"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained." - Mark Twain
Yes, thank you for nailing it
Yes, thank you for nailing it so beautifully! And of course the internet has long been targeted and under the hostile corporate take-over, corporations not liking what's said by anyone can simply arrange to cut off internet access to whomever they wish to silence.
Obama's handing control over Domain Names of the US publicly developed and publicly owned internet to private interests already - and as I understand it, (speaking as One Who Knows Nothing About Internet Stuff, of course,) control of this enables sites to be made inaccessible to those searching for them.
(Edit: this could be why so many of the larger once-progressive sites have gone 'corporate/Clinton friendly' - in order to stay on-line at all. Additional edit: and to avoid being sued for insane amounts of money by multiple companies for potentially reducing their future anticipated maximized corporate profits by speaking facts about them and encouraging boycotts.)
Organizing for things like that General Strike and boycotts of those (edit: corporations/companies) involved in the TPP, TTIP and others of that ilk must be done now.
People must also understand that under these, the people, animals and environment have no protections and are deemed to exist only to maximize profits for involved corporations and billionaires.
If people are not aware of what occurs in countries where the people and environment are not protected against corporate predation, they might want to look into it. It's appalling and nothing is done to curb it, except where international outrage and boycots are used. But the international outrage will now be fully occupied in all 'trade deal'-captured countries and as forcefully squelched in industrialized once-democracies as elsewhere - unless the corporate coup is prevented.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
I'm sorry Amanda
But I won't be able to join you in this "revolution". I've just learned that the OR organization is being turned into a 501c4 that will limit the very thing Bernie purportedly says he wants to promote. Local races and local grassroots candidates. I'm also having a very difficult time justifying why Jeff Weaver is going to California and meeting with aides of billionaire Tom Steyer. I know this'll sting, maybe a lot, but this doesn't look to me like a "revolution" of getting money out of politics. It looks like the beginnings of a SuperPAC using Bernie's campaign as a marketing tool. And as such, I'm very wary of donating what little money and time I have to pay for Jeff Weavers salary.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
At Least
Tom Steyer is trying to promote candidates who want to stop global warming (at least so he says). Out of all the billionaires, he generally seems to be on the useful side of things.
Agree
everything I've seen about Steyer is showing he's on the up and up. He's driven by the urgent need to stop GW. If he wants to give a few million to the cause with the expectation that one of the main items on it's platform is GW then that's great. Or we can sit around and whine about a billionaire helping with Our Revolution's funding even though it appears his hearts in the right place...
Not sure precisely what you mean
When you say he's on the "up and up". More precisely is this: Tom Steyer is a hedge fund manager who is very active with fundraising for Democratic Party and has been an early supporter of Hillary. What appears to be absent in his portfolio of accomplishments is his record on environmental activism. Unless of course you are referring to this:
My whining aside, no one is stopping you from donating your money to this walk like a duck organization. But I think I've earned my right to be skeptical in this clusterfuck of an election.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Why is an organization dedicated to
promoting electoral candidates a 501c4--which prevents it from working directly with candidates?
The messaging promoting the organization doesn't square with what it can legally do.
Don't really know what they're doing up there. Ballot initiatives, I guess, but why not just say so?
Sorry. There's gotta be better ways to spend my time than this.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
doesn't jibe
I smell lawyers. The kind of lawyers who are lawyer jokes in their own right.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
:-)
I keep thinking there's something I'm missing here, because it seems so crazy.
A change in the law, perhaps?
Or is it that Brand New Congress is supposed to be the candidate-promoting entity, and Our Revolution is supposed to be....what? A ballot initiative generator?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Issues-oriented.
I think you're not far off.
There's room for both.
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
If a person were going to do an issues-oriented
organization, the relentless focus on electoral politics seems misplaced.
Just sayin'.
I guess I just think this was handled badly, and rather confusingly.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I'm surprised OurRev is even allowed
to have the Candidates page on its web site (https://ourrevolution.com/candidates). A violation of 501c4 rules I assume (but I'm not a lawyer). My guess it that will be challenged at some point legally and the page will have to be taken down.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
Fri, 08/26/2016 - 7:47am —
Fri, 08/26/2016 - 7:47am — CitizenOfEarth
If Our Revolution has been co-opted by corporate/Clinton interests, there will be no legal challenge that sticks, any more than with the corporate-favored Bush and Clinton campaigns publicly breaking campaign law - and Bernie may have been giving an indication by continuing to talk about electoral activities OurRev should properly not be able to engage in, before walking away from it. Bernie knows that his supporters will question and think about whatever he does and says which is out of character - and that they will look into things and find out what's going on. Bernie thinks ahead, always - something that we also need to be able to do - and recognize - in order to benefit from/understand whatever hints we may get from him.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
It is not a violation.
See my many comments in this essay regarding this.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Thanks, and I did see your
Thanks, and I did see your much appreciated comments after posting, lol, but left the comment up because of the points about Bernie.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
You cannot complain about
taking billionaire money and then turn around and do it yourself. Not only is it rank hypocrisy, it screams 'Establishment tactics!' which naturally leads people to think 'Establishment organization' .
And in my 'discussions' with HRH supporters where they insist there has been no impropriety, I insist right back that there should be no appearance of impropriety, either. How now do I make that argument without it also being hypocritical?
Either we want billionaire money out of our political processes or we do not. It doesn't suddenly become okay because it's a "good" billionaire who wants to contribute to our "side". That's no different than Hillary supporters defending Hillary for the same policies they eviscerated Dubya over.
"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained." - Mark Twain
Hint: Bernie, evidently under
Hint: Bernie, evidently under duress, has, with his usual careful phrasing since the stolen nomination, disassociated himself from OurRev and knows darned well that the aware, such as yourself, will have nothing to do with Establishment/corporate/billionaire tactics. He trusts us to know better. Just as he knows that his supporters won't vote Hillary just because he's forced to say so, although there rather bizarrely seems to be a need to warn people off of Trump so that they are, ideally, left voting en masse for the Green Party, the only possible current electoral choice affording any possibility of human survival.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
TRUST IN THE ONE THING BERNIE HAS ALWAYS SAID....
Change Happens from the Bottom UP.
Our revolution is not a bottom UP org.
Brand New Congress is a good database to find a good local candidate to get behind and Push.
But NO organization is going to achieve the change we need
WE are the engines of that change.
Me... Since I live in NYC I focus on pushing the candidates that will work with progressives to effect real change. people like Zephyr. and a whole host of local people running for local offices.. Who RAGE AGAINST THE (NY) MACHINE.
Orwell was an optimist
That's fine. Do what suits you best. There is no sting involved.
And I'll wait until I see how the finances are set up and not go by anecdotal evidence like "I heard".
Do you think there are no wealthy people out there that can understand and be concerned about global warming, inequality, or war? From here on out, if that person is truly a progressive PUSHING for progressive programs and projects and programs I don't care how much money he has. Not a real rich fraud like Buffett or Gates, but someone willing to put their money where it benefits us all is my ally. Sanders lost a rigged primary. There is no more campaign contributions. There is, though, the FUTURE.
Sanders didn't ask for money last night. He didn't ask us to vote for Shillary. He did ask us for something though. He asked us to get off our asses and get to work be on a phone bank, canvassing door to door, or taking it to the streets. Like he said, that is the only way ANYTHING gets done. When the people get fed up and demand it.
There will be other organisations. Good luck!
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
The NY times may be a politically centrist
Paper of record, but I'd hardly call their reporting "anecdotal"
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/25/us/politics/bernie-sanders-our-revolut...
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
People really need to STOP FOCUSING ON THE DISTRACTION
and stay focused on the job at hand.
The distraction: OMG JEFF WEAVER... (4)
The job at hand: ELECTING PROGRESSIVES TO CONGRESS..!!!!!!
Period.. End of story
Oh and turn OFF msm... Including the establishment papers of record. It's all corp PROPOGANDA at this point.
Orwell was an optimist
I think one of us must be confused
If your ALL CAPS point about electing progressives is your main concern, then why is it a distraction pointing out that OR will be prohibited to do this because of their 501(c)4 tax status?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Because discussing that is designed to distract people
From the job at hand... It's a designed negative... Rather the. A sum positive.
Orwell was an optimist
Probably because the information that a 501(c)(4) in any
way prohibits campaigning for or supporting candidates is false. See my many posts in the comments section of this essay.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
What the IRS says
501c4s are supposed to be social welfare organizations, and here's how the IRS defines their relation to electoral politics:
The promotion of social welfare does not include direct or indirect participation or intervention in political campaigns on behalf of or in opposition to any candidate for public office. However, a section 501(c)(4) social welfare organization may engage in some political activities, so long as that is not its primary activity. However, any expenditure it makes for political activities may be subject to tax under section 527(f).
So yes, they can do some political activities (not defined here) but not as their primary job. Also, the portion of money they use on the political activities may be taxed.
But here's the thing: if you wanted to push progressive candidates down-ballot, why would you choose this particular kind of group? Why not choose a group that makes no restrictions on how you can push a candidate? Why not choose a group that can do that as its fundamental purpose? It makes no damned sense. And if you want an issues-based group, then why all the talk about candidates?
At the very least, the messaging was screwed up around this launch. It's like a Lucas prequel--I have to do a lot of work inventing in my own head the reasons and justifications for what I'm seeing on screen.
And I've got no idea why they thought a 501c4 would be better than a political action committee, which can do BOTH candidacies and issues work, with no restrictions at all.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I have posted this link in a couple of places in comments,
so I guess I will just post the information as no one seems to be willing to read it.
Examples of campaign spending by 501(c)(4)s:
From the same source, in the 2012 general election, 501(c)(4)s spent the following in support or to oppose candidates:
Planned Parenthood $1370143.38 support, $3673691.11 oppose
Patriot Majority USA $708515 support, $1980226.04 oppose
American Action Network $68417.5 support, $6349731.45 oppose
League of Conservation Voters $1316090.65 support, $6691073.24 oppose.
10 more on the list at the site.
Then there is this:
And this:
.
Apparently many here know so much more about how to organize than Sanders with his 30+ years of experience and his legal advisers, so I might as well save my breath.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
People need to do some research on just what the
differences are in the various nonprofit designations. Larry Cohen in the Democracy Now video stated he was not going to go into the legal aspects at the time with Claire Sandberg. He was very diplomatic as he did not tell her she knows nothing.
If anyone is interested in how conservative groups are using 501(c)(4)s to finance campaigns and lobby. the following article has some monetary amounts that make sting your eyes: The Political Spending of 501(c)(4) Nonprofits in the 2012 Election
Sanders has been around for a day or two, and I am pretty sure he knows exactly which nonprofit designations will suit the purposes of Our Revolution better than those who are complaining. The media is not going to educate people about these things as they are too busy frothing at the mouth over anything that Sanders does.
An example (one that Claire Sandberg used) is the complaint against Jeff weaver allegedly saying that he would solicit funds from billionaires. If people would stop and think a moment, they might ask themselves just which billionaires are going to donate to an organization that is bound and determined to limit the influence of corporate self-interests? Secondly, there may actually be an honest billionaire or two left in the world. Ben and Jerry are only millionaires, so they don't count. = )
Edited to change an erroneous three (3) to a four (4).
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Thanks! TPTB are so intent on
Thanks! TPTB are so intent on discrediting Bernie - and more importantly the concepts he represents and promotes - that there will be a lot of attempts to do so. Frankly, I mostly haven't had the energy to research things for some time and very much appreciate people bringing facts where I can see them.
But Bernie's proven character indicates that he does not have an ounce of 'sell-out' in him - and that he's a strategist, not a quitter. And I'll base my ideas of what he's capable of on what he's always proven he's capable of, as I will also do with the Clintons, Trump, etc. So if something smells corporate/Clintonesque, it won't be Bernie's idea. And if something is made to appear to smell corporate/Clintonesque, I'll have a pretty good idea of the source there, as well.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
From a lot of the comments that I read here, it is not
just the powers that be who are intent on discrediting Sanders. I am having to keep a tight reign on my temper--and believe me it takes one hell of an awful lot for me to get angry--at the lack of factual narrative I have been seeing lately here. (Sorry, small rant...not directed at you at all, but needed to get it off my mind.)
"Bernie's proven character" is something some people seem to have forgotten or have decided to view as a fiction no matter what the facts are. Case in point would be the comments about Sanders just walking away from Our Revolution without anyone considering the laws that state he cannot head or even be on the board of an organization while being a sitting Senator. How blind can people make themselves?
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
I appreciate your patience.
My temper "spit the bit" a week ago.
Solidarity
Bernie's proven character
Has been absent since the Convention when he decided to remain silent about the election fraud that took place during the primary. He then endorses the very candidate who stole the election from him and we are left scratching our heads. He invoked the word "Revolution" and all that it implied, giving us license to take back our power from those who oppress us, and then asks us to turn back around and support the very same system he fought against? Pardon me if I'm skeptical about what his motivations are right now and who exactly is running this puppet show.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Apparently, there is just about nothing he can do right.
[video:https://youtu.be/UxaCfJfw6AY]
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
That sure as hell wasn't what I was given to understand.
when I was on the board of a 501c4. Looks to me like the boundaries of what is legal are defined very hazily, when I juxtapose the text you quoted with the text I just lifted from the IRS. I bet you that it's just like with churches and politics--it's all in the enforcement. If you're a RW church, you can support politicians from the pulpit, and nobody will ever hold you accountable. Watch out if you're a Unitarian though!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Jeff Weavers is just taking Order From Bernie Sanders
I was an ex-Bernie supporter and contributor. I am no longer Democrat. Since 7/12/2016 Bernie endorsed Hillary Clinton, I do not believe in Bernie any more.
Well I guess I'm just not
As forgiving and trusting as some of you. A lot of time and money was invested in Bernie fighting -not quitting.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Thank you for this!
The unrelenting negativity about Bernie that I see here & on other berner sites is so demoralizing.
As far as I'm concerned, he focused our attention last night. We have 2 immediate orders of business to work simultaneously. 1) defeat the TPP. 2) get some progressive folks/initiatives elected in November. The Our Revolution website has been updated & the candidate page is up. I may not have anyone to vote for in Alabama but by golly I can help get people elected in other states. Establish that beach head and then advance.
And yes, I'm still working for Jill stein. I never would have given the Green Party a look if it hadn't been for Bernie.
There's a quote that's been running through my head this past day: "it is better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness." I choose to light a candle.
I'm tired of the
Bernie bashing also. I gave way more money than I could afford and made a lot of calls for the Sanders campaign and I don't regret it one bit. Without Bernie their would be no revolution on the horizon. We'd be staring at the same plate of shit. At least he's given us something to focus and work for. I'm with Jill and I too wouldn't have given the Greens a look without Bernie...
What I'm tired of
is conversations being framed in a way that makes it nearly impossible to talk.
Case in point: the idea of Bernie-bashing. Of course, there has been some actual Bernie-bashing on the site, the kind of personality-centered angst that often arises on such occasions. But reducing the criticisms and negative reactions of the site to "Bernie-bashing" is like putting them all in a blender. Suddenly the individual criticisms and whatever evidence or logic they were based on is gone from memory, and what's left is a generalized mush of a vaguely anti-Bernie color and flavor.
Same goes for "whining" or "negativity."
While the relentlessly negative tone on the Net these days is hard to take, and I agree that it's time--maybe past time--for us to focus on something more positive, you can't get rid of criticisms by putting them in a big pile and calling them "whining" or "bashing" or "negativity." Individual criticisms demand an individualized response--dealing with the criticism on its own terms and deciding whether it's valid, or not.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Ok.
Here's my specific list of themes in Bernie comments that I have no time for:
"Bernie sold out for 30 pieces of silver".
"Bernie woke up with a horse's head in his bed"
"Bernie was a plant"
"Bernie gave up"
I have no time for this. They don't help my blood pressure. Comments deploying these themes are most prevalent at kfs and wotb. I simply can't go there any more.
They are reduced, but still exist, here & at TPW. They flared up in the past 2 days because of the our revolution kefuffle & live stream. Hence my annoyance. What's worse, it's just endless rumor feeding on itself. We don't have facts!
I personally think Bernie should adhere to the FEC campaign donation rules for our revolution. The idea that "oh but these are Good Billionaires" is something I'd expect Hillary, not Bernie, to say. I guess I'm going to have to write to the senator, because there's no contact info for our revolution.
I don't have quite the same feeling about the sanders institute, if it ever gets going. To me, I see that as a democratic socialism think tank, to counter the libertarian Cato institute, whatever the heritage foundation is, etc. a place for fellows to earn a living while they write articles, make tv appearances etc helping to spread the good word about democratic socialism. Somehow I don't gave a problem with a sugar daddy or 2 there. Rationalization, I know.
Isn't that precisely what happened at TOP
…around the time they did what they were paid to do for the Neoliberal Establishment:
And, thus, they threw gasoline into the Hillary Dumpster Fire. A lot of voters were blinded by that light. It woke them up and it changed them forever. A lot of people have gone silent. There are fewer bumper stickers and yard signs than ever before. People are pissed that they are afraid to reveal how they are voting, afraid of physical attacks. The unintended consequences, I imagine, will be something to behold.
Big difference between my complaint
And what happened at TOP is that my complaint is exactly that - my personal complaint. I can't stop you from writing that stuff.
Markos decreed what we could write at TOP and employed/deployed people to enforce it.
Consider the following
A 501(c)(4) can be issues-oriented and work for [1].
It CANNOT agitate for specific candidates vs others, so [2] is not permitted.
That's what people are upset about: many thought that OR was going to actively support Progressive candidates of whatever Ilk. But as a 501(c)(4), it can't.
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
This is incorrect.
See my long answer a bit above. People are swallowing he bait again without doing the necessary research and pushing a destructive narrative. It is a sign of the negativity toward Sanders to not think for a moment that he--after 30 plus years--does not know which type of organization will work best for a progressive agenda.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
OK, look--
I was on the board of a 501c4 in 2009. Unless the law has changed since then--and maybe it has--you cannot support candidates. That's the difference between a 501c4 and a political action committee.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
There are a lot of different types of organizations
that can be formed under the rules of a 501(c)(4) including associations of employees as well as social welfare groups. The organization's stated purpose makes a huge difference in its work with campaigns. At the risk of repeating myself indefinitely, I believe that Sanders and his legal advisers know exactly what this type of organization can or cannot do and would not start out by hamstringing the movement.
If you listened to his broadcast, you may have noticed that he spent a lot of time discussing ballot measures and other activities beyond campaigns. This would indicate that this is a much broader organization than just elections and will be in keeping with the requirements of a social welfare group as long as there is no excessive campaign involvement, but that is Brand New Congress's focus, so working with like groups is vastly important rather than duplicating efforts.
From a 2003 IRS publication (pdf):
Meanwhile, in the link I provided in my previous comment, you will find that there are plenty of 501(c)(4)s that contribute to campaigns. From that article:
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
I read that Mitch McConnell says TPP won't get a Senate vote
If that's true then the Dems will have to try and pass it next year when they control the Senate. And will the Tea-GOP House go along? The Party of NO may rescue us.
"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
Thu, 08/25/2016 - 8:04pm —
Thu, 08/25/2016 - 8:04pm — rmwarnick
They are a corporate/billionaire representing party, so I wouldn't like to bet on it. Do they or their owners/funders have the sense to realize that these corporate coups kill off not only their golden goose but their life support system in very short order? Many Republican officials claim to not believe in evolution or any science their backers don't like because they reveal facts having the potential to interfere with their profiteering at all cost - to all others.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
And then we shall see Hillary's true colours!
This looks to me like a very Machiavellian move on McConnell's part.
If one has a Hillary Presidency and a Democratic Senate, will H push for a "No" vote, as she claims she wishes, or not? Will she veto TPP?
If she doesn't, then shouts of "Hypocrisy" could well arise across the Political Spectrum, and H will be shown out, very early in her Presidency, as having been full of b.s. during her candidacy.
Many Democrats will very likely revolt.
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
We have already been shown
We have already been shown Hillary's true colours - and she won't care any more as President than as a Presidential candidate that voters don't trust her for darned good reason. She'll have conned/invented enough votes to get into office and to hand over the powers delegated by The People to various public offices in government/Justice intended to serve the public interest to hostile self-interests under cover of 'trade deals', to become corporate management of the American assets, human and otherwise. And as long as they need her, she'll be rolling in money and whatever power they allow her.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
I don't understand why the tax code comes first.
Allowing considerations of the OR tax status to circumscribe or define the purpose of a 'revolutionary' political organization runs counter to the very notion of revolutionary organization. Seriously people, if we want to break away from the limitations of a two party system and the oligarchy that maintains it, why are we even considering limiting the scope of the organization's activities to provide tax relief for contributors?
Bernie's primary run was funded largely by millions of small donors like myself, many of whom pay little or no Federal Income tax. The tax deductibility of those contributions means nothing to those who are not in need of additional tax deductions.
The focus on tax deductibility is a tell, and what it tells me is that OR is moving away from the people powered grass roots organization that shocked the establishment with it's power and commitment to social and economic justice, becoming just one more tax dodging organization holding it's beggars bowl out for the alms of those who have more than they need.
The oligarchs can not be expected to fund their own demise, so why are we stuck on the importance of providing tax deductibility at the cost of limiting the organization's activities?
“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
Tax deductabilty is not the issue as a 501(c)4 is
limited in what can be deducted. The movement needs a central organization. If we have not learned by now that a hundred progressive groups going off in myriad directions is not working well for us, we had better learn it soon. The Republicans learned that lesson quite sometime ago which is why they have been so successful in taking over state governments.
There is also the issue of paying the salaries of people to hold the organization together. While people may be willing to donate to specific candidates or causes, it will be much harder to get them to fund the organization that brings it all together, so a strictly grassroots funding mechanism will not work.
See my long answer further up the thread on the fact that a 501(c)4 is the correct designation for this type of organization...and give Sanders some credit for knowing what he is doing.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Thanks for helping me understand a little better!
I assumed incorrectly that it was primarily about deductibility for contributors rather than the structure of the organization and overhead expenses.
“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
Woulda, coulda, shoulda
Sick of playing the Sanders' guessing game. As far as I'm concerned, the game's over. Once you gain my trust, then lose it by doing the opposite of what you say you are going to do, you'll never regain it again. The man called for a "revolution", but really didn't mean revolution because he quit. He didn't call out the fraud, and that makes him a fraud. How can Bernie expect us to fight for some amorphous, leaderless thing, when he won't fight? Fool me once, yadda, yadda, yadda!
Woulda, coulda, shoulda
Sick of playing the Sanders' guessing game. As far as I'm concerned, the game's over. Once you gain my trust, then lose it by doing the opposite of what you say you are going to do, you'll never regain it again. The man called for a "revolution", but really didn't mean revolution because he quit. He didn't call out the fraud, and that makes him a fraud. How can Bernie expect us to fight for some amorphous, leaderless thing, when he won't fight? Fool me once, yadda, yadda, yadda!
As far as I'm concerned, the
Sanders Sold Out motif here is getting fairly tedious and banal. While everyone is entitled to their opinion, that's an opinion that simply is not based in fact. Nobody's "guessing" here. The guy tried to beat the corrupt at their own game and he got "beat". Now he's been marginalized and has been compelled to start tap-dancing on fucking cue--anyone who can't see that and continues to insist "he was always a fraud" can't possibly be arguing in good faith, because by accusing him of always being a fraud, you are removing faith from the equation from start to finish. .
Period.
One more time for the folks in the back of the room--Bernie Sanders' candidacy being upended and marginalized because others fucking cheated and stole his ballots and threatened him doesn't make him the sellout. For the love of FSM, if you're going to keep crying about how he done you so wrong, can you please at least come up with something more original?
lunachickie, I need to add
lunachickie, I need to add another million virtual recs to the enormous pile I'd like to have given you and can't, since it's only one per comment.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Ditto to you, honey
Your naive imaginings about "Bernie being threatened" are more tedious than my dealing with the facts (what he said, did, and how he treated his delegates in Philli), plus you can't prove the "threats" are real. And, I don't scream insults at those whose opinions differ from mine. I you can't handle this and refrain from cursing, you need to get therapy.