Bern It Down!
What can we accomplish now? Where do we go from here? What will our political revolution look like in December 2016?
Bernie wants to start over from the ground up: elect progressive candidates starting at the local level. I admire his leadership in this endeavor and certainly will pay attention to all of the 'troops on the ground' who engage in heroic feats of victory.
But, this can't be enough. The planet doesn't have 50 years to wait for this movement to work its way to the presidency. Besides, for decades we have already tried this. Does this sound familiar: Our purpose is to elect more and better democrats? We might be able to get a handful of progressives in place (just enough to keep the left 'believing' that there is a chance). Otherwise, we will still be bullied, made to pull up our socks and get in line, and told how stupid we are.
So, while Bernie's plan can be a part of our revolution, it can't end there.
The second prong attack on the democratic status quo is also getting stronger. Jill Stein's platform is almost identical to Bernie's. Her numbers keep going up. If she polls at 15%, we get a place at the mic at the debate and she keeps our voices heard on national television prime time. At the very least, Hillary will need to remain to the left to try to capture those votes. But the greater good is that we are growing the Green party so that we can continue to push for progressive values going into the future.
We also need to Bern down the old system. We need to stop both Hillary and Trump. We need to keep either one from getting 270 electoral votes. By growing green and encouraging other third party supporters, we keep BOTH mainstream candidates out of the win.
There has been much discussion online about the procedure to cover this scenario.
What happens if no presidential candidate gets 270 Electoral votes?
If no candidate receives a majority of Electoral votes, the House of Representatives elects the President from the 3 Presidential candidates who received the most Electoral votes. Each state delegation has one vote. The Senate would elect the Vice President from the 2 Vice Presidential candidates with the most Electoral votes. Each Senator would cast one vote for Vice President. If the House of Representatives fails to elect a President by Inauguration Day, the Vice-President Elect serves as acting President until the deadlock is resolved in the House.
This article argues that it would be impossible for a conservative third party to cause a republican congress to appoint the third party candidate (as the conservative 3rd party bleeds off Trump's votes and makes HRC the winner). However, the whole formula changes drastically if there are both a conservative AND progressive party bleeding votes from BOTH Trump and HRC.
So for all of our work to build the third parties, what do we get? Even the Republican congress might still appoint HRC as she represents the NEW republican party. So we still end up with one of the evils from somewhere. Here's what we get:
1. NO mandate! In other words, if the president is 'appointed' rather than 'elected', that president will have a huge chunk of the country saying "We did not elect him/her so you can't bully us into your wars, treaties, bailouts, schemes, and tricks!" Whatever candidate gets the Whitehouse he/she will need to continually get the consent of the governed -- it will not be automatic.
I, for one, am sick of hearing candidates claiming a mandate for whatever whim suits them.
And, hopefully, since any candidate would be unable to actually get anything done, we could start fresh in 4 years with totally new candidates.
2. It takes all of the 'scariness' away from both mainstream candidates. How can they be scary if they will not be able to accomplish anything?
3. Many pundits say this scenario would create a "constitutional crisis". Maybe that's exactly what we need. Bern it down! The two party system has a stranglehold on us. We need a new election system that allows for a broader spectrum of ideas. The 'lesser of two evils' continues to be evil.
I look forward to comments and arguments!
Comments
We might be able to get a handful of progressives in place
You mean like Franken, Warren and Sherrod Brown? Fuck them all. The DNC stole the election from Democrats to nominate a Republican. I'll vote for Trump if that helps to take her down.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Exactly my point.
The 'progressives' that we elect usually get bought out to the dark side anyway. And as long as we keep voting for the lesser of two evils, the dems go further and further right until they have finally replaced the republican party.
Now it's up to us to replace the democratic party with a new one. Green already has a head start.
When people tell me they are voting for Gary Johnson, I tell them "Great! One more vote to keep Trump from getting to 270 electoral votes.
When people tell me that a vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Trump, I tell them that Trump won't be so scarey if he doesn't get to 270. And HRC won't be so scary either if she doesn't get 270. She won't have a mandate to burn up the middle east. Problem solved no matter who congress appoints.
In the meantime, we're growing the opposition and destroying the two party system power over us.
Vote Jill or Gary! It's a win/win!
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when we are afraid of the light.
--Plato
Exactly! dkmich
I have said all along...
....there's no time. We have to SHOCK the system. We need to clear a path for Bernie's plan to work, and it has to work a lot faster than stringing out over 50 years. I'm with you, Plato. Make the Congress choose the "Leader of the Free World." Don't just hand it to the likes of HRC. She and her ideas deserve no mandate. None. Not even a faked one.
We have already been kicking the can down the road for 50 years.
We can't wait another 50.
What better way to shock that system than declaring 'a plague on both your houses'.
I just absolutely cannot vote for either dem or repub candidate. But it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to think that it may be the most patriotic thing we could do right now -- bring them both to their knees.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when we are afraid of the light.
--Plato
Bern it down. Time for a purge. This will not be resolved
through voting or Congressional moves now. Start again.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
To quote Frederick Douglass...
"Power concedes nothing without a demand." As soon as Bernie gave his endorsement to Hillary, he stopped demanding and gave his willful consent to everything that she has done electorally up until this point. Why he did so may be a point of argument, but the fact that he did it is not.
Given that, in the short term we are very likely screwed. Unless there is a massive sea change, we're going to end up with one of the worst candidates of all time as president. A lot can still happen, but there needs to be a radical shift and it needs to happen very quickly. If Jill Stein is going to be an effective balance to Hillary on the left, her numbers need to get to at least 15% by the debates. It's not impossible, but it will still require a lot of work. If she and Gary Johnson are included and their messages get out, it could change the entire election, but that's still a big IF. Still, we should still do whatever we can and not be daunted by the possibility of failure.
If we can prevent both Hillary and Trump from getting the 270 electoral votes they need, all the better. It renders them illegitimate leaders that the people have expressed no confidence in, and even if the Republican Congress appoints someone out of nowhere, they will be opposed at every turn. As you noted, aside from Jill Stein being elected, this is probably the most preferable result of the election that ensures that whoever is president will not have the ability to inflict additional harm to the country and impose their agenda on the world.
In the long term, if we are interested in pursuing Bernie' vision of "taking back" the Democratic Party, it is in our interests to make candidates like Hillary electorally non-viable. The only way that Brand New Congress is even remotely possible is if we weaken the neoliberal stranglehold on the party, and the most effective way to accomplish that is by ensuring that the Democrats that do not meet our standards are never elected to office, no matter what. Every single Blue Dog and neoliberal that we tolerate simply because we are afraid of the alternative is another agent that will work against us in whatever government we end up with after November.
In short, hit them from the outside by voting third party, withholding all contributions from candidates and organizations that do not deserve them, and actively choosing the greater evil when sometimes necessary to keep the veiled evil out, while continually voting for the downballot candidates that reflect real progressive values whenever possible. Until we stand up, refuse to play this stupid game, and demand fair representation from those telling us that we have to be "pragmatic," "sensible," and "realistic," power will concede nothing to us.
I agree with most of what you said, but not to vote for the
greater evil to keep out the veiled evil. That will set us back.
Vote third party or vote for progressive Dems or leave a blank. We don't need to slide farther down the rabbit hole. That will only make it more difficult to climb up.
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Vote against evil. If nobody
Vote against evil. If nobody ever votes for what's best for the people, the people have no chance of ever getting real representation because they are literally asking for evil through their votes. How much more obvious could this be?
You can vote for a beating and robbery you might get anyway, or you can vote for safe streets and the right to walk without harassment which you might not get anyway - why vote FOR the mugging?
Bernie did what he had to do to avoid conceding and releasing his delegates to Hillary - and to keep his message of what the people could and should have before the public eye. Democracy and a sustainable society. We know that a lot of self-interests, including the corporate media bringing this meme out first, have a strong interest in spinning Bernie as Hillary and vice versa - don't fall for the propaganda!
Bernie knew that many of his supporters would never support corruption, so he would have felt safe in doing this - but he's always been willing to sacrifice anything that was his in the fight for democracy and The People. Having been consistent since childhood, short of brainwashing, why would anyone believe that he'd suddenly changed his spots rather than employing strategy toward a planned goal?
Bernie's always said that the movement was The People - he was to inform them of the workings from within so that they knew what was most imperative to fight for and against. Bernie did amazingly well against a global monster of corruption and the people were cheated out of his/their win - so the corruption works with its characteristic propaganda built of lies and projection. Wasn't that only to be expected of them?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Pundits are wrong that no candidate earning 270
Would create a constitutional crisis.
1) the constitution has procedures for this very situation.
2) it's been used before - wasn't it Jefferson/Madison? And maybe one more time (my history is fuzzy here)
whole system is fraud
- Bought out corporate media (No independent and free press, no informed citizenry)
- Bought out only two main officially sanctioned corporate parties
- Election Machine Hacking
- Voter Suppression
- Fear based politics
- No real choice in candidates in the general election (restrictive ballot access laws for third party candidates, prohibitive bar for third party candidates to get into debates, two major parties nominate weak candidates)
- Money in politics making it virtually impossible for ordinary citizens to run for office
Love is my religion.
Definitely the best strategy
I had previously thought that there was no way on Earth that the House would vote for Hillary, they would be forced to vote for the 3rd party spoiler over Trump or Clinton. But lately I've seen so many GOP bigwigs side with her that I'm no so sure of that anymore.
What state is Jill from, anyway? Because in order to be eligible as a candidate in a house vote she has to win a state other than her home state. E.g. Bernie would have to win more than Vermont.
“He may not have gotten the words out but the thoughts were great.”
Stein is losing votes.
You want to make your voice heard ?
Vote Trump
link?
My voice will be heard
voting Stein or Johnson. Trump's voice is too overbearing and will drown my voice out. Third party voices are the only ones that will rise above that of Herr Drumpf and her heinous. Don't be a mouse.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11