Kossacks4Sanders Reddit Turns to the Darkside
Some of you may recall that after the big exodus from Daily Kos following the Ides fo March decree, a subreddit called Kossacks_For_Sanders was created by a number of former prominent Bernie supporters. Over time, as other Sanders' subreddits have imploded due to subversion or infiltration by Clinton operatives, many people saw K4S as their refuge. There, topics were generally not censored (I say generally because in fact, some were). I suspect many c99ers are familiar with K4S as I have seen many of you both here and over there.
Well, the policy of openness regarding what topics were acceptable for discussion took a biog hit yesterday when the moderators of K4S posted the following:
Kossacks For Sanders began as a community dedicated to the support of Bernie Sanders and the principles of democratic socialism that he has been promoting for many years. Initially it focused on supporting his campaign for the Democratic nomination for POTUS. That campaign has come to an end, and Bernie is no longer running for President. However, he is still actively campaigning to build a long term movement that will support the principles of democratic socialism and the other related policy positions. We will continue to actively support Bernie in his efforts. He has launched a national initiative under the banner of Our Revolution. His campaign staff is being brought back to operational status and it appears they are using some of the same strategies that were used successfully in the presidential campaign. OR is not about the presidential election. It will not be used to support the Hillary Clinton campaign. It will be focused entirely on down ballot progressive candidates in the 2016 election and will also be looking to support such candidates beyond that election. This is an initiative that KFS intends to get behind.
Bernie Sanders was the only person who we saw as a positive and constructive choice for POTUS. We do not support the campaigns of any of the remaining active candidates. This sub will deemphasize the focus on the presidential election. There will be a daily mega-thread devoted to the presidential election. Material relating to the candidacies of:
Hillary Clinton Gary Johnson Jill Stein Donald Trump
must be placed in that mega-thread. Material about those candidates not placed there will be removed.
Our initiative here remains entirely separate from and independent of /r/Political_Revolution. We support Bernie and his Our Revolution as do they, but we will do it in our own way and on our own terms. We welcome your input from you about ways in which we can be effective in our efforts to support Bernie's vision. This policy statement is a joint effort by the members of the mod team who have reached a consensus on it. It will become effective after we have the opportunity to review the comments.
If you see yourself as someone who basically does not support Bernie Sanders, then this is probably not a place where you will feel at home.
Frankly, I was disappointed, but moreso, I was extremely upset. This is not how to build a revolutionary movement, dictating what can and cannot be discussed, and placing certain topics in their own little ghetto to marginalize them. Here was my response in the thread to that post last night:
So it's about Bernie's revolution now, not a political revolution? It's about him and his ideas on how to do things rather than a collective effort by everyone to the left side of the oligarchy that controls the D and the R brands to come together and create a movement that will change the duopoly? You're making a big mistake folks. You are cutting your little slice of the internet off from a larger movement. You are advancing the interests of TPTB when you say that there is only one path to the political revolution. Even Buddha never said that his way was the only path to enlightenment. I'd rethink what you're doing unless you have some specific reason I don't understand for what you are doing. IMO, it's wrong from a movement building standpoint, it's wrong from a communications and collective action standpoint and it's wrong from a people standpoint. Shutting down or curtailing speech is not a good thing. You had a good thing going, a site that could be a place where people with many different viewpoints, strategies, tactics and opinions could all come together and speak to one another, encourage one another, help one another and work with one another. I have no idea why you would want to do change this. No good idea in any event. Bernie never said it the revolution was about him, it is about us - all of us making the changes and taking the actions necessary to effect change. How does what you are doing with this decision to limit what can and cannot be the focus of this subreddit advance that goal?
Perhaps I was wrong about that. Maybe K4S was never as open and welcoming as I imagined, unlike this place. In any event, a subreddit that had grown to well over 4000 members may soon see significant departures. Feel free to express your own opinion about what the K4S mods have brought down upon their heads and feel free to speculate as to their motives.
Ps. I can recommend another subreddit, created by former mods at K4S who left after they saw what they considered censorship and "sheepdogging" known as WayOfThe Bern, which seems to be much more open to any and all matters one wishes to discuss, promote, educate or simply raise hell about.
Comments
please see my earlier reply to you.
.
This was a reply to...
OSofAS, see my earlier reply to you.
Speaking for myself
as a founding member (2nd member after JtC), I would like to re-state the purpose of caucus99%. The purpose of caucus99 was and still is a non-partisan site, the primary focus of which is the discussion of issues affecting us all. Most of us were frustrated with the lack of substantive discussion of issues, rather than just partisan politics on other sites. This is the main reason this site was founded. Our roots go way back before this Presidential primary and while most of us lean very far left, we have encouraged lively discussion of the issues from all points of view.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
This is what I like about 99
I am no where near as left as many here are... Admit I don't plan to vote for Jill BUT I like coming here to read the differing opinions and the left wing views and news... Without this I put I am NOT getting anywhere near the entire picture of politics in 2016
I used to be able to get this diverse info in a one stop shop on TOP... Until they became a full throated part of the problem
(Smile)
Orwell was an optimist
What shills? Where? Who? Define a shill.
Everyone needs to be reminded of what c99 is.
This is a LEFTIST NON-PARTISAN site. We pledge allegiance to no party, candidate, or political philosophy. Who you vote for or if you even vote is up to you. Hillary and Trump people could post here if they were sincere. Everyone is free to engage or not. If you choose to engage with the people on this site, you must be civil, legal, and within bounds.
Simply because someone criticizes Bernie, wants to vote for Trump or Hillary, or doesn't plan to vote at all, doesn't mean they are a shill. It also doesn't necessarily mean they hate Bernie or love Trump. It simply means this is what they think about that.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
This attitude about following pols
and shit like The Way of Bernie is blowing my mind. I don't do reddit because of the format but sounds to me like they are sheeple of the worst order. Some of this shit is splashing up on our shore and I do not like it. Kossacks for anything make my hair stand on end. 'Our Revolution' is insulting after this rigged primary. Down ballot or up ballot the Democratic party is a worthless vehicle for taking back our country and to think that Bernie's plan for 'revitalization' is in any way going to lead to a political revolution is simply ludicrous.
Who runs and owns the party? A pol is a pol and to follow the advise of Bernie or any pol that preaches fear of the lunatic right wing and The Hairball as a good reason to vote Democratic isn't credible to me. What kind of revolution works on any level to elect corrupt crooks disguised as progressives? Our revolution is not Democratic if it is it's a freaking joke. Does anybody really believe that the D party is going to allow or support and fund any candidate who is not willing to go along with their criminal corrupt agenda and policies let alone 'revolutionaries'.
Even if you do elect a real democratic candidate they will fold like a cheap tent or be neutered and powerless. Why follow any pol who kisses the Clinton ring and calls this a political revolution? This Bernie fixation is not democratic and it reeks of the cult of persona. I'm starting to gag every time I read the word 'progressive'. How is down ticket electing better Dems. a revolution? It's co-opting any potential political revolution and acquiescing to a blatantly rigged election.
btw HRC today campaigned for Debbie 'what kill list' Wasserman in Florida. Last night someone here said we should all trust Bernie. Why? This is not Our Revolution. We need a real one and it won't happen in the Democratic party. Do these people not know what a duopoly is about? Shame on Bernie for leading the movement he gave voice to back into the anti-democratic fold. Bad enough that he endorsed the Clinton crime family but telling people that electing down ticket Dems is our revolution is sick.
i like the way b/c it allows all discussions except ones
promoting hillary's election.
personally, i don't support bernie anymore b/c he supports hillary, & yes, i'm allowed to say that on the way.
Why not try change from the bottom up?
I have been following the efforts of Brand New Congress, and plan to volunteer in the future. My understanding is that these efforts were started by Bernie volunteers and campaign employees even before the primary was over. Personally, I think it is a brilliant strategy.
The momentum has to start from somewhere; it has to be built before the tidal wave can wash up to create a third party or whatever it grows into in the future. Whitecaps of anger and disparaging of those who are trying might ruffle the surface of the waters, but is there any real power in those small waves? Wouldn't a tsunami of organized change have more power?
Our Revolution
puts revolution in invisible quotation marks, but to my eyes they flash like a neon sign.
Our "revolution"
completely castrated, defanged, domesticated, co-opted
I'm sorry, but I can't understand
what the point is about going on and on about "Bernie's Revolution"? He's done. He's been done. You don't have to be. I don't have to be.
And I'm not. I still have my Bernie stickers on my car and I refuse to waste energy being angry at him. I see no reason to waste the oxygen continuing to shame him, here or anywhere else. It's not like he's reading it. Please stop placing so much importance on "what he did". His bit is done and it's not going to change, because shit went down that we can't know and we obviously cannot change.
My post was not a condemnation of Bernie Sanders
but of those who say the only way forward is to promote the strategy of only working within the Democratic Party to effect change.
Bernie did us all a service in exposing the deep corruption and corporate control of the so-called "liberal" party. However, I don't believe that solely focusing on achieving change by working from within the Dem party, one controlled by Wall Street and neo-liberals, will prove particularly effective. Revolutions occur because of outside pressure by millions of people who are willing to take risks, not from insider factions gaining power over a party's apparatus. Parties by their nature compromise their values in order to continue to operate. MLK Jr. never worked within the Dem Party, he worked from without to change an evil system. Only after he achieved a critical mass among members of the public who became educated and opposed the continuation of the status quo did LBJ work to pass legislation to bring about some measure of change.
Ps. If I misunderstood to whom you were addressing your complaint, (i.e., if I wrongly assumed your remarks were directed at me) my apologies.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
FWIW
I guess I wasn't clear, that was meant as an actual reply to Shaharazade...I know this wasn't really about Bernie. Thanks, though!
(stupid reply button! I'm starting to think maybe it's not just me, lol!)
Ok, my bad
I realized after I posted my comment that perhaps that it might not have been made to me, thus the edit with the ps.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
progressive heroes
Warren, and Fiengold caved to the Clinton "mystique" as well. Donated to him in the past, but will no longer support any candidate that went to that dark side. How many others are there that I am not familiar with. I really want to see Sander's policies stay in view of the General Public, but am conflicted by "down ballot" when the icons of "progressivism have endorsed the DNC methods, and candidate for POTUS
I was respobnding to
the statement from the reddit Kossacks for Bernie group. I'm not angry at Bernie. I was talking about the absurdity of this group putting all talk or support of presidential candidates in a separate sub heading. I think it's a valid criticism to point out that many of his 'followers' are taking the bait and working down ballot to elect down ticket Dems. All I'm saying is that this is not 'Or Revolution". I agree it's a waste of energy to be angry about what he did. 'Kossack's for Bernie' and Our Revolution groups are the ones who need to let it go.
It's what he's doing now that I do not like. 'His bit' is not done when he continues to herd many of his followers into the Democratic fold. Doesn't make me angry at Bernie, he's a pol and it is a waste of time to get mad at pols. Loving and hating pols is another waste of time. It the cult of persona. They do what they do. What does make me angry is that so many people have placed their trust in Bernie instead of working for a real political revolution. He's now preaching 'revitalizing' the Democratic party. Like that is even possible. It's not Bernie's revolution or movement never was, so why trust Bernie's Democratic way forward now that he's done his bit.
I am angry with the Democratic party with good reason. Down ticket and up ticket they are a anti-democratic dead end. He should be ashamed of selling the same empty pocket full of hope that the Democratic party serves up every election to rope in the left. Telling people that this pig of a platform is progressive and that Killary will be a good president flies in the face of the movement he engendered.
We may not be able to change the shit that went down but we sure as hell do not have to continue listening to him and work or vote inside the irredeemable Democratic party. Maybe instead of listening or following pols or leaders who will deliver us we ought to think for ourselves about what a political revolution entails. I guess I'm also leery of any group that 'identifies' with both Kossacks or Democratic pols of mass deception.
How can Bernie lead any revolution now?
I loved him during his campaign, and I do believe he was coerced to campaign for Hillary, most likely by threats to someone he cares about (I don't think he's a coward, to cave in to threats to himself), BUT:
Now he's urging the election of a warmonger, a pay-to-play pol, a constant liar, a bribable possession of Wall St & any foreign group (TPP), a fracking proponent... If he can be forced to do this, who else can he be forced to recommend? It's terrifying.
I don't see him
leading much of anything. So why be terrified of his recommendations? I hear what you're saying, but you don't have to listen to him. I won't be, much as it saddens me. I imagine I am far from alone...
No, you are not alone.
I think our numbers are huge.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
how many revolutions developed without a leader?
Am I wrong that it might be almost all of them? A revolutionary uprising takes place and out of this probably some leadership figures evolve. But the original uprising and resistance takes place without leaders. So, I wouldn't worry too much, if he can or can't "lead a revolution".
You can't expect a single person to take on "USA, USA, USA... " Too big of a country. I guess you can defeat an empire by the bites of millions of fire ants. So ...
You're right.
We just have to be fire ants. Forward!
Too many who dub themselves "left" censor, which
I have always viewed as a rightist, authoritarian practice.
Well, they ARE Kossacks after all.
Old habits die hard.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
I just read Clinto Kaine 84
as Citizen Kane 84. Which I suppose isn't necessarily wrong.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
I don't self-identify as a Kossack
I never self-identified as a Kossack, even though I have a login at DKos that I signed up for during the Bush administration. I left there in March and never went back, choosing c99 over K4S.
"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
I joined DKos in 2004
in the middle of the Iraq "war", when organized resistance to the Bush Administration seemed to be imperative. The site was very good at mobilizing opposition to the neocons from a wide variety of knowledgeable members. However shortly after Obama was elected and appointed his awful team of financial advisors, big cracks began to appear in Markos' coalition.
IMO it has been slowly bleeding its most insightful contributors ever since then, culminating in that ides of March decree, and the subsequent exodus. I stayed on for a few months until the place became so hostile to any kind of self-criticism, I finally just threw up my hands and bid it farewell.
native
It's become a dittohead site
they remind me of Limbaugh's faithful, with about the same amount of insight
Being so fully committed
to the current two-Party hegemony doesn't allow much space for alternative points of view to even arise, let alone to flourish. It breeds a with-us-or-against-us mentality on both sides of "the aisle". This system is a kind of institutionalized Dualism that discourages independent thinking, by placing too high a value on Party loyalty, and too low a value on intellectual honesty. But Kossacks have obviously bought into it wholeheartedly. They seem convinced that no alternative to it is available, and remain quite content to perpetuate it, in hopes that their "side" will prevail.
native
No other alternative is desirable or even thinkable.
When all you have is the not as bad as every time around the block, then critical thinking has to take a back seat to propaganda. Once you believe the propaganda then the plot has no relevance you become just another unquestioning loudspeaker.
Yep. US political thinking devolved into "sports team" think.
On the broadest consideration, a top-heavy duopoly is a terrible thing to impose upon a society. It is so easy to manipulate using situational polarity (good cop, bad cop) that it is effectively enslavement of the mind, especially when you have cohorts in the media monopolies (who must renew their broadcast licenses with Congressional oversight, each year).
It's a sad thing to see in the 21st century. It certainly cannot be categorized as a democracy. It most resembles the Superbowl.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
It's become a PROPOGANDA site pushing what seems to be a
Coordinated message... Pushed by the other usual suspects.
Once you accept what DK is it's kind of funny to read most,of it and a fun game to figure out how to say what you are not allowed to say there in ways that are just AT the line but never go over it.
When I am bored I love doing that.... Have posted some pretty Anti her comments veiled as innocuous (bwahahahaha ) and gotten recced for them toooo
Orwell was an optimist
I had to really watch what I wrote on Kos, every diary
I spent some time deleting stuff that might have caused "outrage" or the stupid little flag thing being pinged.
Fuck 'me, Steve,
never been there. I have yet to hear (many) positive stories about reddit in general. Some times this place gets on my nerves, and I have to realize 'it's not you, it's Me' and go do a binger and chill for a while with the dogs. It doesn't always work like that, but we work around it.
I tend not to participate on most forums and just lurk, a very few encourage my. . . let's just say, eccentricity. If I feel comfortable, I'll swim. Otherwise, I'm on the side of the pool looking for sun.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Reddits have their uses
That reddit was very helpful to my efforts to spread the word about The People's Convention event in Philly at the DNC that I was working for. But I'm not crazy about reddits either. Maybe because it's a generational thing. Reddit seems frequented by a younger demo than blogs at this point.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Anyone who has ever dealt with MO behind the scenes,
not in the public pages, should be not surprised at all. Her public persona is nothing like her private one, IMO.
I think she knew that this was possibly going to go down like a lead balloon, and got out while the getting was good.
Good luck to the new sub, and, of course, grateful for the site here. Hope everyone is well.
What.
I consider mahakali a friend, so I take umbrage here.
I miss Colorado.
Just stating my experience.
I found her to be backstabbing at DK, even publicly, to me. Early on, she sided with the Hillpeople against me on a controversial diary that I wrote. Gave me a very bad feeling.
Then she asked me to help her start up K4S at reddit, as a mod. I agreed, against my better judgment, and worked hard on that sub for several weeks to drive traffic there. One day, after dk banned me, she dropped me like a hot potato within hours, with no explanation, nothing. I'm guessing that once I could no longer be of assistance to her in driving traffic from dk to her reddit site, I was expendable.
Fool me twice, shame on me. Sorry you take umbrage. I just call it as I see it.
Well, I believe I "sided with the Hillpeople against" you
on at least one diary that you wrote. I have disagreed with just about every poster on this website at some point or another.
I am sorry that you had a bad experience with her, though. I guess I shouldn't take umbrage at someone else's personal story, but I'm more of a confront them directly, bitch about it for an hour and so, and then write a fucking rant kinda person.
I miss Colorado.
I'm not talking disagreement, I'm talking flagging/banning.
She was a flagging master, and barely hid her open call to flag me in a certain diary that she thought made Bernie people look bad. Later, of course, once I had some success there, she was sugar-sweet. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes it doesn't pay off, like with her.
You are not alone, though I hasten to add
that MO was horrible to me at DK. Completely, utterly horrible. Until Bernie came along. Then she couldn't have been nicer to me, and last I chatted with her online, she was getting ready to get ready to go into the hospital or something (been almost a couple months, if my brain is still functioning). Like the horrible never happened--we each acknowledged that briefly and left it behind from there.
Lovely person, she couldn't be nicer (and I still love reading her), but I never could figure out what the problem was initially....
Shiz, I too had bad expriences
dealing with MO. She troll rated me to hell and back because I supported NYCeve and Slinkerwink on the Healthcare Insurance Subsidy Act. Then she joined Denise Oliver's flying monkey brigade and troll rated me some more for my anti-war comments where I said that the military was racist as it preyed on poor people black and white who got funneled into the military. I really lost all respect for her when she went into a fit of conniptions over The Nephew Incidence.
Yeah right I'm a white privileged racist leftist from hell. The DO slimy connection was the final straw for me as far as MO goes. She like DO spouts her phony street cred cause her parents were hippies. lol. She's really into identity politics that are absurd. Like geebeebee was saying once she found out I was a Bernie supporter she was as nicey nicey as could be. I don't trust anyone who joined the D Oliver brigade. I don't believe for a minute she is a socialist or a liberal. She's just not about anything I trust as sincere. I do love you your real and even if we disagree sometimes your one of the most sincere people have come across on the net. Your good and funny and your not a backstabber your honest and up front.
Sorry to hear that...
Nietzsche comes to mind.
“He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster . . . when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you”
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Great quote! Love it!
I miss Colorado.
Never Seen Before: DMW as a Kid
A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma
Ah Family Circus...
Back when kids could roam the entire neighborhood at will with dotted lines, and the neighbors wouldn't call the police.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
More precisely, with respect to the neighborhoods
represented in that strip, when white kids could roam the neighborhood and the neighbors wouldn't call the police, and black kids could roam the neighborhood and the neighbors wouldn't shoot them, but would instead call the police -- who also wouldn't shoot them.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
I dunno
I've been following Kossaks for Sanders since March when tos went all hrc. They still post good stuff imho.
Go Bernie !!
hi, Steven D, when the darkside is coming over,
be reminded by M. Moore what to do...
5 Ways to make sure that Trump loses
We don't need to talk, we could sing, right?
[video:https://youtu.be/HM-E2H1ChJM]
(No subject)
Yes sad to see MO's farewell.
I went to K4S frequently and too was disappointed with the new "rules". Will check out the new link. Seemed to me K4S kept most of the trolls at arms-length and I saw many familiar names there from TOP. Thanks for the link Steven D. I am always interested in checking out other progressive sites. Here and TPW is my comfort zone.
O.k. When is the next meeting for the revolution?
-FuturePassed on Sunday, November 25, 2018 10:22 p.m.
Well, I just spent quite a bit of time over there and it's sad.
This from one of their mods:
They want to be small and obscure?? I can see wanting a bit more focus, but this sounds kinda like a Clinton buyout. It's sure not a good business model otherwise.
That said, a site that is about a politician does have a short shelf life. Once elected or not, then what? Trying to establish a direction sure led them into a quagmire.
K4S by bad example shows some of the wisdom going into this site, Johnny. For one thing, we're about issues, not people. There will always be issues.
For another, you let us talk about people and don't try to restrict. Someone on Reddit said something like "If you want the site to be mostly about this, then post your own really good articles about this and people will read and respond". That's what I feel you do here. Instead of saying, "You must write about this," you write about this. Then some respond, some go off on their own tangents, but it's all good. The issues discussions will pick up after November, I imagine.
Freewheeling discussion creates a great site for readers and writers, IMHO. Moderators keep it civil. You provide us with some news. I think you found the magic formula.
I feel sad for the people on Reddit who are feeling cast adrift again. I hope a bunch wash up here and find a new home. It sounds like the blog has some organizational advantages over Reddit.
Never sell out, Johnny and Joe!
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We wont sell out ever ec...
even though it seems like some folks around here would like to limit the scope of this site.
Yay! The very thought makes me hyperventilate.
You stand firm, you're doing well. You've had quite a week and it's only Wednesday!
IMO, you're limiting it where it needs to be limited - i.e., enforcing DBAA. Without limiting it where it doesn't need to be limited - i.e., topics.
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Glad to hear it.
This site is the one I read daily. Reddit is fine in its way, but it's for quick comments and, it seems to me, for a younger group of people. Please keep ignoring those who want to limit C99's scope. You guys are doing just fine. Thanks.
-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962
OT: Clinton's medical records have been hacked or leaked.
Twitter at: http://archive.is/tpacA
They are photos of typed out medical reports. Two diagnoses are mentioned:
1. Complex partial seizures [which we suspected]
and,
2. Subcortical vascular dementia [holy shit]
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
Well now! Alert lunachickie!
If those are real, this could change things.
Very unethical as a medical professional, though.
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LOL!
O.k. When is the next meeting for the revolution?
-FuturePassed on Sunday, November 25, 2018 10:22 p.m.
I said the apparent seizure didn't matter, we'd never see her
medical records except what she wants us to see. I'm a former medical transcriptionist; this sort of unauthorized release of medical records is a very big deal - the person who took them could be looking at felony jail time.
But I may have to walk that back, since apparently someone took that chance. Of course they could also be faked. Time will tell.
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Hmph--I fart in your general direction, lady
LOL! Damn right, you better alert me
Now, to be fair--I know what you meant, and you were right, insofar as no one should ever have expected to see "real records". Just what I can see in the tweet, however, doesn't really look too official--I mean, I can type a doctor's name and address at the top of a Word Doc, you know? What little info I have says these aren't real, but that's a first gut reaction, subject to change with more information put forth...
PS the link in the post above
doesn't actually lead to Twitter. Poster has taken a screenshot, taken allegedly of a Twitter account page.
Yeah, I'm thinking someone's hoaxing, at least so far. Nothing looks official about any of the screenshots, plus the "tweeter" practically gives their identity away enough to get their dumbasses in trouble.
So no, not buying it...somebody try harder, I'd damn sure love to see the real thing...
I'm not going to alert you again if you're going to fart at me!
LOL!
Yes, someone could have just typed up a document. But the language is right, and about the diagnosis the NINDS says this (subcortical vascular dementia is also known as Binswanger's disease, BD):
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/binswangers/binswangers.htm
Still, just being on the campaign trail could cause most of those symptoms, so who knows.
As I noted below, Twitter could have removed the original because this is illegal activity. But the tweeter says more will follow. There are other sheets behind the one we see. So even if they don't "try harder," we might see more shortly.
I googled Her Heinous to see what was up. Nothing about this in the MSM, although NBC just reported that two parents have filed suit against her for Benghazi!
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Try "Subcortical vascular dementia"
I did that and holy cow, LOTS of Wild Mass Guessing based on the alleged Tweets.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Ha! Snopes is on the case. Unproven so far.
But hey, Sean Hannity says it's true. Consider the source!
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I'm sorta skeptical, but impressed that someone went to
the trouble to do so much homework. The "retrieved" information suggests a disgruntled former employee of Dr Bardack who is also a Trumpeteer (not a good sign), but they also have a good grasp on medical terminology and they know the actual geographic area.
On the other hand, wild stories about Her Heinous' health (or lack of it) have been circulating for over two years now, so who the hell knows.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
They could be faked.
But who is there to deny them that has any credibility?
Especially since the guy that was supposedly the leak in the campaign was murdered "by person or persons unknown." [last name Rich]
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
The basic information checks out
Doctor's name - correct
Doctor's address - correct
Doctor's affiliations - correct (although "Mt. Kisco Medical Group" recently changed its name to "CareMount Medical")
Location with respect to Chappaqua address - credible (by the way, I used to know this area very well).
If they are fakes, they are very, very good ones perpetrated by somebody who did their research.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
The pictures look like someone
typed it all up in a word processor--I don't see an official anything on any of those bits of paper. Am I looking at the right thing?
There is that, but remember we went through this shit with
the GWB AWOL story. It turned out in the long run that the information was factually accurate, but the chain of possession of the documents had been both broken and erased - what Dan Rather was sold as "evidence" were probably copies of copies of copies (and not Xeroxes either).
Information buried in the "comments" on this one points to "disgruntled former employee", who may have it in for the doctor as well as for Her Heinous.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
You can get information about any doctor with a simple
Google search. And more.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.
Still means somebody went to a bit of effort
to make sure that their claim was not implausible.
Any further references to "Mount Kisco Medical Group" dated later than February 29, 2016 would raise a red flag - on that date they officially changed their name to "CareMount Medical, P.C".
Mount Kisco is the next town north from Chappaqua; there is a Northern Westchester Hospital in Mount Kisco; they do list a Dr. Lisa Bardack at CareMount Medical; etc.
And Bedford Road runs directly between the Clinton house in Chappaqua and the Mt. Kisco address of CareMount Medical, very conveniently.
There was a time when I was very familiar with the Chappaqua area - mostly the west side, but some points north (including Mt. Kisco) as well. If they ever find the perpetrator, we will probably find that s/he is familiar with the area as well.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
That could be because
Her campaign released a letter from her doctor during primaries. (Letter in article)
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/hillary-clinton-medical-records
Look at the date format
Notice that the date of service is written in the European format, rather than the American way. May or may not be significant, though.
Was that a screenshot
because the tweet was removed?
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
I don't know. I'm at the limits of my IT ability. :-)
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
Looks like it to me. The unauthorized release of medical
information by anyone in medical employ is illegal, a felony violation of HIPAA laws.
Maybe Twitter took it down because of that.
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going to take this with a pound of salt.
But it does bring up a point that I mentioned yesterday at kfs.
Hillary's medical letter was fine when she was a candidate. But now that she is a nominee shouldn't she be releasing her medical records?
I remember the fuss when McCain released his, since it was very controlled, you had to review them in this room during these hours, no copies, etc. the media had a field day with it.
I think it's been crickets from the media this time.
Apparently what McCain did was an unusual level of
transparency, http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/14/health/presidential-candidate-health-discl...
Probably because IIRC, there were questions about his health because of his age and his choice of Palin.
Letters are usually all they do. Now that this has come up, she'll do some sort of calculus whether releasing or not releasing will hurt her more. If this gets into the MSM, it looks to me like she'll have to release something more than last year's letter.
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can you post comment on AlligatorEd's post from a few days back?
Ty for that. I read it and would like to see her MMSE score
MMSE: (aka, Mini-Mental Status exam, aka Folstein test). I do (administer) these mental status exams when I have to and counsel loved ones of patients w dementia. If she has a deteriorating MMSE it is NOT good. At all.
Don't believe everything you think.
Lol!
I read that as mini me status. She surely has the ego for that!
According to those
Notes, her MMSE is deteriorating. And she was advised to travel with a medical team.
Medical offices/clinics/hospitals handle their medical transcription in a variety of ways. Some is even sent to India.
Ohhhhh
ok, this could be someone's doctor's copies of medical transcription for Clinton, then? Because that would make the format make sense.
Holy freakin' horseshit if it's real. One supposes the ultimate reaction will tell the tale of how true/real it is. I'm reserving a healthy dose of skepticism for obvious reasons, but wow. How sad...
Could Be
Each medical office, of whatever sort, has a format it wants its transcribed records to be in. Those formats differ. I knew of an office where the doctor's dictated notes, sent out to be transcribed, came back via fax machine.
I have no way of knowing if these leaked documents are real. We'll have to wait and see. If they are, this campaign is probably taking a toll on her body, but maybe less so than the presidency would.
TY, feathered sprite
I don't tweet, never have. Is there a way that these whatever they are could be sent to me if not against the law?
Link above is to a picture of the
Records. It is not a tweet. It's a picture.
Yak-yak is all over the 'Net, Ed
If you Search on "subcortical vascular dementia clinton" with a time limit of "Past Week", you'll get a major eyeful. Multiple Web sites have those pictures now, along with copypasted text from article to article to article.
If she doesn't issue a totally credible denial right away, she's got a PR problem of HUGE proportions on her hands.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
I'm not sure what would constitute a credible denial
or by whom. There is a real limit to what her doctor can say publicly. If, however, the Clintons want to sue someone for libel or some such, the court could direct the physician to testify fully.
But I think the damage is already done.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
Or you can search on Google for
Images for subcortical vascular dementia clinton
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
WayOfTheBern is a good subreddit on Reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/
Love is my religion.
I got banned from there early on for defending Jill Stein
They are kossacks at heart and do not tolerate non-democrats. Their mods are strange.
Just created a subreddit
Just created a subreddit called https://www.reddit.com/r/NonpartisanLeft/. Anyone want to help moderate and set it up. I can't promote on k4s because they banned me, but that kind of help would be appreciated too. Obviously people working to promote leftwing campaigns and ideas are welcome both in an out of the Democratic Party.
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