Putting two and two together...
Okay, let's start with the Trump campaign, of which we should be SOOOO afraid.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/31/us/politics/donald-trump-presidential-...
Electoral Map Gives Donald Trump Few Places to Go
Okay, so here's the money passage:
Even as Mr. Trump has ticked up in national polls in recent weeks, senior Republicans say his path to the 270 Electoral College votes needed for election has remained narrow — and may have grown even more precarious. It now looks exceedingly difficult for him to assemble even the barest Electoral College majority without beating Hillary Clinton in a trifecta of the biggest swing states: Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania.
President Obama won all three states in 2008 and 2012, and no Republican has won Pennsylvania in nearly three decades.
With a divisive campaign message that has alienated many women and Hispanics, Mr. Trump appears to have pushed several traditional swing states out of his own reach. According to strategists on both sides of the race, polling indicates that Mrs. Clinton has a solid upper hand in Colorado and Virginia, the home state of Senator Tim Kaine, her running mate. Both states voted twice for George W. Bush, who assiduously courted Hispanic voters and suburban moderates.
So what is the Donald doing about this precarious situation? From Texas:
http://www.star-telegram.com/opinion/article92921877.html
The easiest job in politics belongs to the people who are producing Hillary Clinton’s attack ads against Donald Trump. All they’ve got to do is wait for this bumbling gasbag to open his mouth, and he basically writes their commercials for them.
Every few days brings a new Trump gaffe, and a new gift to the Democrats. Never has a presidential candidate willingly provided so much damaging material for the opposition to use.
Yet we are to be deathly afraid of this situation, in which the Clinton campaign has large quantities of leisure time before its highly probable victory in November, given how vastly it outnumbers the Trump campaign in terms of hiring campaign staff or soliciting funds. How, precisely, is the Clinton campaign using its surplus time? It's attacking the Left, of course.
http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/democrats-begin-guilt-trip-camp...
Democrats Begin Guilt Trip Campaign To Pressure People Into Supporting Historically Awful Candidate
Anyone who's been on Facebook or Twitter promoting Jill Stein can tell you this is real. They all say the same thing: Trump is Hitler and if he's elected it's your fault. Bernie Sanders, who is usually more honest than this, will tell you something closer to the truth (but still cherry-picked): Trump uses bigoted etiquette.
Now, this is true in its own rights, and perhaps it's something to be afraid of -- bigoted words are usually followed-up by bigoted actions. Yet from the words of the scaremongerers, Trump will have an easy time imposing his "racist agenda" (whatever that is -- he's not a consistent guy) upon America, notwithstanding the extent to which Trump has alienated his own party, whereas it will be ostensibly far easier for us on the "Left" (whatever that is these days) under Clinton Two. Here's Jonathan Smucker:
https://medium.com/all-of-us/we-want-a-political-revolution-first-we-mus...
But we cannot afford for Clinton to lose.
With the nomination of Donald Trump and the dangerous politics of hate that he represents, this election is no longer about Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party establishment. It’s about all of us. And it’s about stopping the worst possible scenario. I have spent more than two decades as a grassroots organizer, immersed in left social movements that have opposed the neoliberalism and frequent warmongering of the contemporary Democratic Party establishment: from Latin America solidarity, to the global justice movement, to the antiwar movement, to Occupy Wall Street, and many local community struggles. As a vocal Bernie supporter, it hurts my heart to know that I will cast my vote for Hillary Clinton in November; it pains me even more to be sitting here writing an article aimed at convincing my friends and comrades to do the same. But if there is one immutable maxim that the left should take from the past century, it is that we absolutely have to unite — specifically with liberals — to defeat fascism.
Smucker panics further:
The good news is that a Clinton Administration will not get a ‘grace period’ from progressives (like the one Obama got after eight years of Bush). Progressive movements will start applying pressure on Day One. We have already seen throughout this campaign season that we have a degree of leverage over Clinton — even if we will have the urgent task of growing our movements so that we can have more. With a Trump Administration we would have close to zero leverage.
But this isn't really true, is it. "We," i.e. "the Left," have no leverage over ANY politician, because we are SO FEW in number. As for Clinton, Clinton just makes up nice stuff to make it look like she's a liberal, and then as the truth comes out she resorts to tactics which are in fact already fascist: vote suppression, whispering campaigns, or that nice little fascist national convention she and her supporters held last week. Smucker seems to have no idea of how "pressure" works -- you don't "pressure" politicians when they are entitled to your vote.
Smucker continues in this idiotic vein:
On the other hand, fear and anxiety fuel reactionary movements, and if Trump is President, there will be plenty of fear to go around.
Note to Jonathan Smucker: have you figured out yet that your ENTIRE BLOG POST is a message of fear and anxiety? Perhaps this has to do with the fascism that is going down right now under Obama?
Compared to CURRENT fascism, what is Trump? And how is another Democrat in the White House going to "stop fascism" if it goes on under the nose of the current Democratic President and he continues to sit there in the White House and dream of "trade deals" and of playing golf with Bill and W.?
At any rate, the real Left argument behind "we must support Clinton," the necessary one that makes the others possible, is that a campaign with the whole of the owning class on its funding list can't beat a guy who has one-tenth the campaign staff of that campaign, and so "the Left," which has spent forty years now diminishing its numbers by supporting "lesser of two evils" campaigns until it is practically nothing at this point, must save her.
Once you know that, you can wake up to the breathtaking stupidity of the Clinton fear campaign, and you are free. Free from the fear of Trump and the concomitant loyalty to Clinton, free to organize for Stein or for whomever you want.
Comments
I think we need to get behind Stein
The time is right for a new party victory
An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the time. It stands or it falls on its own merits.
Seems like the best time ever.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Victory in what manner? She can't win, she'll be lucky to
register 5%. So what is the purpose of getting behind Stein?
5% is the goal.
Did you have a better goal in mind?
“One of the things I love about the American people is that we can hold many thoughts at once” - Kamala Harris
Going by Bisbonian's FOX poll
I think 15% would be an achievable goal before the first debate. The bigger question would be whether Clinton even shows up! And whether Trump's mic can be cut.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Well that's optimistic.
We've got to publicize the 5% goal. That way the Clinton advocates can feel assured their candidate will not be "spoiled" and the GPUS will receive FEC funding.
“One of the things I love about the American people is that we can hold many thoughts at once” - Kamala Harris
Millions of Americans want an
Millions of Americans want an alternative. We should show them one.
Plus, it helps strangle the Dems, which is the only actual way to pressure them short of leaving horse heads in their beds or visiting their kids at school.
Mostly grandkids. There is an age problem already.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I'm confused Big Al
I thought you don't advocate getting behind anyone because the entire system of voting is pointless.
Don't misunderstand, I actually have some respect for that position, in my house it's called "going George Carlin" based on him saying the entire system sucks and is a charade, "it's Big Club" etc.
But if the system is a charade and not worthy of participation, every part of it is, so who cares what candidates other people vote for? In your comment here, you're sounding like it makes a difference.
****
edited to add name of person I'm responding to. Sometimes I find threads very difficult to follow here, I wish there was some mechanism to see who the response is to. The best way is to ad the name, I've found, especially in comments with multiple responses.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
@Phoebe. There is a way.
Last I knew JtC had it on the wish list. Until then, there is a way.
When I want to flag for someone, I always put his/her @name in the subject line. If we all did it with all our comments when we were responding to someone, everyone would know who was talking to who. The absence of a @name would indicate no one in particular.
Moderation uses this simple system in its email meetings so that we know who a comment is addressed to when it isn't addressed to everyone or we are responding to multiple people/comments in one thread. Works and quick and easy to do.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
thx, good to know. I will use it from now on /nt
https://www.euronews.com/live
@mimi
The more we model it, the more people that will follow. We can hope.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Got it, @dkmich
Yes, that is a good technique. I'll incorporate it into my practice. It works well if someone is just scanning the comments list as well, because you'll know that someone posted a direct comment to you.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
@phoebe -
The more we model it, the more people will follow. We can hope.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
@dkmich - speaking of wishlists
I use the essay list a lot to keep up with new comments in an essay. But when you click on the new comments button, it only takes you to the first new comment and you're on your own to scroll down and find the rest. I remember that at . . . . . another website, there was the ability to use a keyboard command (control j? or something like that) to jump to the next new comment in a thread. I'd like to put something like that on the list. No hurry, I'm sure there's lots and lots of stuff ahead of it.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
I miss that functionality too @Phoebe
Eliminated in the next-to-last big revamp at TOP. I never knew why.
You keep using that word...
I think that voting for Stein helps legitimize this political
system and the election of either Trump or Clinton. It will give the façade that the people had choices, but most chose Clinton, when there is no choice at all because Stein or Johnson can't win and Trump/Clinton is not a choice.
I'm advocating a boycott to force a change in the system whereas voting third party doesn't do that, it merely registers votes for a third party in the same system. Stein going from .36% of the vote in 2012 to maybe 2-3% in 2016 will give the impression that third party participation in this system is possible when it isn't.
But my question was why vote for Stein, what is the purpose since she can't win. I've seen various explanations along the same lines used to justify Sanders running, i.e., she'll talk about the issues and real solutions that the people need to hear, etc. But, mark my words, she'll only receive a small percentage of votes and Clinton will be President. So what's the purpose? Is it to try to make a point? To try to build the Green Party?
How is a non-voter identified as a "boycott" voter?
Answer: They're not.
Unhappy voters can be quantified if :
they vote 3rd Party
write in a candidate
write in None of the Above
leave the top slot blank as an undervote
What you're advocating transfers the least amount of power, IMO.
edit - you also seem to be saying - only vote for a winner. Yet winners are determined by voting. I think you're logic is circular and defeatist, sorry to say.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
What do you expect to get out of voting for Stein?
And what difference will it make if she gets 5% of the vote? What will it change? The votes are "quantified" but what will it change? Like I said above, we'll still get Clinton for President.
I've said all along a boycott can take a number of forms including voting for Stein, voting none of the above, voting for Mickey Mouse, or not voting at all. But to work it would have to be an organized, publicized, energized and vociferous boycott challenging the system. How does voting for Stein challenge the system?
I actually wrote an essay last night about this asking some of these questions. Was going to post it here on C99 but I'm thinking it would be a waste of time. People seem to be set on the switch from Sanders to Stein. It's like chasing the sun.
[video:https://youtu.be/BBUxZdWJ_zE]
You are a seer of great power Big Al
You know in advance that Clinton will win, that voting for Stein makes no difference, and even that no one would find your essay interesting if you were to post it. Why not post it and find out?
To quote that great philosopher Doris Day, "The future is not ours to see"
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
No need to be sarcastic. We all have our opinions.
That's exactly why I won't post it here on C99. I dealt with the same shit over Bernie.
I wasn't trying to be sarcastic in my title
but you were making prognostications without even the qualification that it was your opinion. I was attempting to be humorous, not deal out "shit" with Doris Day reference even though that is a gut-wrenching song.
I am not being insincere in anyway when I say you should post your essay instead of determining in advance that the site can't handle it for whatever reason.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
OK, my bad.
I'll try to use the "imo" more. I've been trying but when the fingers start flying I sometimes forget.
I'd 'like' yer comment
but I really do not like Portlandia. They have helped to create a Portland that is the opposite of what this city was. Their mockery is disgusting. Pretty soon they won't have feminist book stores to make fun of. Yesterday we went to a small demonstration to help save historic Belmont Street from being demolished and replace by 6 story toxic monstrosities for the hipster yuppie's to live in. It felt good to do something outside of partisan politics. We got a good response from the cars who passed with our signs that said 'Stop Demolishing Portland' and save Belmont. It's no longer an affordable, livable liberal city. Our city and state government is solidly neoliberal Democratic and thoroughly corrupt. I don't know what good it will do to vote for Jill Stein but I'm switching to Green. Not voting at this point is what they want. They prefer the fearful brainwashed partisan's from both sides to give their consent to this farce of a government.
Never watched it actually, just saw this clip and thot it
was funny because you know how we yearn for sun around here.
FYI, out of over 500,000 elected offices in this country, the Green party is running for 117 of them. (Something I put in my essay). Stein got .36% of the vote in 2012 or around 400K people, after polling as high as 3% because of the anti-Obama backlash from the left.
Basically its almost starting from scratch.
More power to everybody here with Stein.
Yup I agree
I voted for Stein in 2012. It was a protest vote. Down ticket I voted for every socialist, Green or Indie I found who were credible and not libertarian's. I was shocked that Jill got less then 1% of the vote. I don't think she will win but at least it's a start at giving these fuckers a run for their money. There is a left in this country and it's growing. People need to start forming coalitions instead of believing that there is no way to take the duopoly down.
For me the Greens are a good alternative that offers a chance to build an effective future party. They have not been particularly effective and don't seem that interested in being real contenders but there are a lot of people who are willing to give it a shot. As Cassie says if people vote for them and join them they will grow and perhaps be a way to cut into the grip of the duopoly. I look at it as a starting point for organizing a political party for something rather then against the dueling evils we are supposed to give our consent to.
In the meantime I agree with Chris Hedges and think civil disobedience and outside actions are essential. I'm impressed with the fact that people like Cornell West and other activists are supporting and working with Jill Stein. Whoever wins this rigged farce of an election it's going to get worse for most people. I think the time is ripe for organizing any and all opposition to the duopoly. Revitalizing the Democratic party as Bernie is calling for is nothing but sheep dogging. I could not vote but I'm too stubborn to give them what they want. I like your plan of an organized boycott of the vote but I don't think people are ready to form the critical mass it would take to even be noticed. People need a framework to organize around and there is nothing other then the Greens that I can see.
It was interesting at our demonstration on Saturday as it was a coaltion from several local groups who are horrified about what's happening in Portland and the state. Nobody even mentioned the Democrat's. They talked about how deep and broad the corruption went. More and more of people are seeing this and realizing that voting isn't going to even slow down the demolishing of the world. It really is up to people.
To vote or not to vote, that is the question
A non-vote means nothing, just as PL says. When so many don't vote, how will anybody construe a non-vote as being "against the system"? Can't be done. Won't be done.
Non-voting is not an option for political change. There are two real options for changing the system:
1. Work within the system, even if it means voting third party or, uselessly, trying to reform a party from within
2. The time-honored red-blooded solution--violent revolution. I think we are closer to blood in the streets than most people think. Once a large enough spark has been loosed, there is more than enough powder to make a big bang. I have my own pet theories about that spark--maybe later...
A non-vote means nothing, accomplishes nothing.
Then I mean nothing, OK. I get it.
I am fucking nothing. I am a fucking nothing non-citizen. I get it. Thank you.
All you holier than thou voters can take solace that I, a non-voting (for President and other so called representatives, not direct democracy voting) citizen am nothing. I have zero contribution to society.
I don't fucking care anymore.
We need a "None Of The Above" party
for people who are dissatisfied with the offered choices and/or the system. I don't think we'll ever get it, though, unless we ourselves make the electoral system give it to us - too much danger that "None Of The Above" might actually win.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
To clarify my comment
I am not saying that Third Party voters are by definition "unhappy".
I'm sure the majority are happy to vote for their candidate, what I meant by using the term unhappy is that they are not finding their solution within the two-party system and therefore have to go outside that system to find an acceptable candidate.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
I think we need to stop repeating the sound bite
that Jill can't win. That is part of the smear campaign. Jill can
winget the most votes in a 4 way race with 2 very unpopular, awful candidates. She wouldn't be able to get the most votes if this were 2000 because we didn't have much social media back then and we were at the mercy of the establishment media. Today, we can help Jill get the most votes. The more I watch her, the more I really like her as a person and as a leader. She is who we need now, and this is the year when it will be easiest to give a third party candidate the most votes. Vote for Jill, especially since Hillary may be already pre-determined, no matter what we do.Beware the bullshit factories.
THANK you. I tire of the repetition
of these talking points here (and not just this one)
something is better than nothing sometimes
Even a reasonable showing would be enough to shake the system up.
I take some of your points, Al. My Family and I will support
Stein (this cycle) until it is decided who participates in the GE Presidential Debates.
(IOW, to try to pump up her poll numbers, since she likely won't win this election cycle.)
After that, our aim will be to keep 'the Grifters' out of the White House--or a third WJC/'O' term.
We'll pick back up supporting a third party ticket for 2020, on November 9th. Possibly the Greens, although we have 'hopes' that a new Party can be formed.
(We voted for Stein in 2012. However, unless less something changes soon, she and Johnson will not have ballot access, here. The state legislature moved quickly--enacting new ballot access laws--to make sure that 'the Pauls' could not threaten the Repub Establishment this election cycle.)
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit and therefore– to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
The SOSD Fantastic Four
Available For Adoption, Save Our Street Dogs, SOSD
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
I'd like to see that too U.L., keeping the grifters out.
Feel like I'm in enemy territory now though. It's funny. Same thing as with Sanders.
That's what this system does.
There needs to be a party.
The party is the collective expression of the public interest. Without the party we are mere individuals.
The party needs 5% for FEC funding.
“One of the things I love about the American people is that we can hold many thoughts at once” - Kamala Harris
Party on Cass.
If people want to vote,
Stein is the best candidate.
I see nothing wrong with people doing that. Actually, if you want a record of where you stand, there's nothing wrong with voting for any of them--as long as you're voting for a person you really want in office.
Holding one's nose is servile anti-democratic crap.
If you don't want to vote, here's some good reasons to back that up:
1)The corporate media controls what people see and hear, and who people know exists. That's why Stein is at 5%.
2)Election fraud and voter suppression control the results, no matter what the majority thinks.
Anything electoral anybody wants to do in future will need to have some real answers for those two problems, or it's a disingenuous waste of time.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
There's another reason imo,
this representative system of electing 535 people, and a Prez and Vice Prez, to represent 330 million people and counting is not democracy. Not matter what we do having 537 people make all our decisions for us, to go to war, to cut Social Security, to institute Obamacare, etc., is not democracy. It is an oligarchy. And, as I've said many times, its an oligarchy controlled by a plutocracy.
A question I've asked many times, do we want democracy or not. I do. A lot of people do. But a lot of people don't. I would like to have a national discussion around that and we have to somehow force it.
Honestly, it's hard enough to get people out of the
lesser of two evils mindset.
Whenever I question the fundamentals of the system that have produced these disgusting "choices," somebody says "Better him than that Republican," or "Better her than that corporate Democrat."
At this point, only the most wildly idealistic person could think that working within the Democratic party could change anything.
As far as democracy, sure, but how? Any voting conducted digitally is going to be screwed with, for sure. Also, we have no reliable way for talking to one another, a state of affairs that has continued since the Telecommunications Act at least--and that's a generous estimate. Really we haven't had a press worthy of the name since the late eighties. But even if we think the actual 4th estate fell in 1996, it's been twenty years and we still have spent way more time an energy trying to get Democrats elected than trying to build a networked indie media that serves our needs.
It's because it's so much harder to do that kind of politics. So much harder. And people are exhausted and demoralized.
Without a DIY politics, we rely on leaders to get access to the channels of communication and visibility. And when those leaders fall, our access to those channels fails, and we are back to being a disorganized mass, more disillusioned than when we started.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Get the “Left”-labelled and “Right”-labelled segments of the 99%
to talk, find common ground, and work together — transcending the psychological buttons (identity politics, tribal dynamics, emotional wedge issues, social class) the Powers That Be push to keep them apart?
Reading one day that some Black Lives Matter activists and some Bundy-ranch type rifle-toters had teamed up with instead of facing off against each other, Mr. 1% wondered if the time hadn’t finally arrived to retire to his estate in Paraguay . . .
It's kind of funny in that me and brother are literally a
mirror of that left right divide and yet we agree on almost everything. Maybe not at first but after discussion we (almost) always come out agreeing on the primary issue discussed.
After school we both went our separate ways, moved to different parts of the country and world and became immersed in different cultures. His was the NRA, right wing, republican, conservative set, while mine was the liberal, left, set (although never a democrat). We're only a year and a half apart.
We have to identify the key or primary things or things we all want. That's not about single payer, or a higher minimum wage or even war, it's about how we all can live free, equal lives where everyone has a say in how they live their lives.
I'm not voting Trump or HRC
Any better idea?
You can see into the future? Really?
Well gee . . . . I'm sure we all have some questions about our own personal future.
This statement is much sharper than snark so I guess it falls under the category of sarcasm. But the point is, you don't actually know what's going to happen, any more than anyone else.
Personally, I'm betting on 35%, but that's just a goal. It's not a prediction. It is just what I am going to work for, along with a bunch of other people.
These kids are trying to accomplish something. I don't know if they will succeed, but I'm sure as hell going to help them.
The question is, why the fuck aren't you going to help them?
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
Why the fuck aren't I going to help them?
Help who do what? Clue me in maestro.
Totally agree, Don
There are a LOT of people buying into the FEAR messaging, but I would still hope they could be won over. The problem is the major media. The Net is vast, but the "news" corporations have moved to steal what they can of it, and control the rest. Bernie's face-to-face rallys are probably just about the ONLY way to get a non-establishment message out reliably. Is Jill Stein up for something like that? Without such a media end-run, I suspect any campaign will crash and burn.
-And in these days of computerized voting, as we see by the exit poll "adjustments", they are ready and willing to defraud the vote. And every election cycle since 2000, has had something hinky going on regarding computers. Kerry losing Ohio. Obama denied a landslide victory. Etc.
We rate last in the developed world for election integrity. We desperately need to go back to paper ballots and hand counts, with everyone watching. The machines are hackable. It has been proven over and over. Las Vegas slot machines have more regulation. The voting machine companies are allowed to self-certify. This is all insane.
Yet it can render all that effort for change moot. Look at what they did to Bernie. Without the "adjustments", Bernie would have won without the superdelegates. It was fraud, and until we stop it, the Left will continue to be boned and owned.
This is the only thing about current politics that makes me despair. Candidates? Sure, let's talk about them. Issues? Yeah, OK, maybe even that. But election fraud? Using computers? -Instant snores.
I plan to vote for Jill, even if I pick up a few down-ticket Dems, or (hopefully) Berniecrats, as well. I think it's important to express our displeasure to the PTB, but I have no faith anymore that my vote will be counted. Our only hope to beat the rigging is an unexpected landslide, and a great deal of watchfulness, all over the country. Still, that's something to shoot for.
I have to admit, too, part of me has been waiting for the first Hillaryite to step in and accuse me of voting for Trump. I have a fearsome set of lungs. I just may blow their eardrums out of the back of their heads, with my voice alone. Ye gods, I'm angry. The Dems. It's like having neighbors that break into your house, rob you blind, and then try to guilt-trip you into fixing their plumbing.
My best notion for a slogan so far: I'm voting for the Other Woman.
"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes
Love the "Other Woman" slogan
And plan to steal it
Agree with you about the importance of letting The PTB know where we stand by voting for #JillStein. I've already got the paperwork to #DemExit and will join the Green Party.
Can't dwell on voting machine situation, or I'll never get out of the fetal position.
Egads! What an election.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
"Breathtaking Stupidity" is good." n/t
edited for my cognitive loss.
-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962
I really enjoyed your post.
I agree with Don.
There is no use in continuing to be anybody's useful idiot.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
WTF? "Support Hillary to beat fascism" is oxymoronic. Hillary is
a fascist every bit as much as Drumpf. Bill too. It is akin to the Medicis versus the Borgias, would you rather be put to the sword or get poisoned?
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Way ahead of you. I haven't been afraid. I've been angry.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
Perfect analysis. What an eyeroll Smucker's post was.
Think I'll save this for the few I know who have an open mind on this subject.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
we do have a constitution
Mr. Madison, Mr. Hamilton and Mr. Jay knew very well that, every now and again, the populace elects, or someone selects, a demagogue. As had happened a little more than a hundred years earlier when a character named Cromwell was able to take over the British govt., turning out the monarchy which had ruled for 650 years.
Presidents can be impeached. Supreme Court justices can be impeached. Congress can refuse to confirm justices, as we know. And so on.
I am really, really getting fed up with hearing about Donald is the second coming of Adolph.
2016 is not 1939. For one thing, the international situation is altogether different. For another, Trump has no compelling ideology which can be compared to National Socialism. 'Make America great again' is an advertising slogan. And another, Trump has a following of aging guys who wave their slogans around until the beer runs out and then crash on the sofa. He does not have a paramilitary army, nor even the makings of one.
What is frightening at the present time is the militarized policia with their arbitrary justice out of the end of their guns, but Trump does not control them.
Mary Bennett
No — the DOJ and the DHS do (at the federal level)
Now if only there were a Democrat and a person of color in the White House . . .
Heh!
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Or in the DOJ
This is where I shake my head ruefully. No justice for the homeowners, no justice for voting rights, no justice for civil rights (Black Lives Matter)
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
America has no left wing to speak of. Never has, really.
And anytime any real left wing opposition starts gaining ground, the corporate entities and the billionaires who hold this country by the balls shut them down every time. But that won't stop some morons from thinking Hillary Clinton is a fuckin' commie just because she's got a (D) next to her name, no sirree.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
I will not be shoved by fear tactics. Voting Stein!
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Exactly, Nastarama!
Trump CANNOT be Hitler, because he has never served in the military, is not a decorated veteran, front-line soldier, has never been wounded or shot at. Hitler's psychopathology was that of a Crusader. Trump's is Narcissism. Hitler had the armed forces behind him, and Trump just can't seem to insult them fast enough. If we see anything militaristic out of a Trump Presidency, I think it has an equal chance of being the first successful mutiny in US history.
Oh, and Hitler may have been a chauvinist, but he didn't openly insult women. He denied himself marriage until the end. I don't see Trump displaying any such self-control.
I could go on at length about ways that Trump is inferior to Hitler, but that would sound too much like I was a fan of a backstabbing, racist psycho. Hitler, I mean.
"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes
History repeating as farce,
wouldn't you say?
The military, in the persons of a few generals, I forgot the names, has already let it be known it won't take orders from Trump--responsibility to refuse unlawful orders is how they put it. I only hope they will be as responsible when NetanHillary orders then to turn Syria into a nuclear waste dump.
Mary Bennett
your Smucker excerpts sound...
...very much like the 'we have to vote for Clinton' essays that we've seen posted on C99 recently. are they all given the same script??
You really have to wonder.
“One of the things I love about the American people is that we can hold many thoughts at once” - Kamala Harris
It's certainly the MO this season!
How many near identical essays did we see on Daily Kos that basically started with saying much they were being Bernie until some meaningless event/trivial thing and now they are #WithHer?
I've noticed 5 near identical articles on various websites on Jill Stein's anti-vaxxing in the past 3 days or so. They aren't even bothering to hide that they are all using the same script. The "journalists" who wrote the articles are basically the equivalent of a group of college students that all went to the same wikipedia page and changed a few lines. That's how identical they were.
Corrupt Democratic party and the Clintons are the Augean stables
I’m with Hercules.
#ImWithHercules
More Corrupt the Record courtesy of David Brock?
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
The Dem Party is using the 'fear' trope because they
aren't actually going to run on issues, and put themselves in the position of promising to deliver on the Dem Party Platform.
As I posted in another thread, David Axelrod said as much to John Dickerson earlier today, on Face The Nation.
What else would make FSC and all of her 'surrogates' show up everywhere, screaming to the top of their lungs, "Stop Trump!"
As Axelrod said, she'll have to win by discrediting Trump--specifically, by making people fear him.
IOW, I agree with AnotherPeasant, who says,
I don't see what's so puzzling--it's basically MSM propaganda. Or, a Dem Party campaign tactic, carried out with the help of the mainstream media, and the One Percent.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit and therefore– to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
The SOSD Fantastic Four
Available For Adoption, Save Our Street Dogs, SOSD
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Nate's 269 map
is dangerous for Her Highness. If Trump flips PA he wins. Hell, he wins at 269.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
It's not dangerous for her because--
she has both her own machine, and the Bush machine, behind her, and both machines are very good at fixing elections.
Even if Trump is genuinely in opposition to her (as opposed to all this being a pro wrestling match), he hasn't got a chance; his dirty tricks squads are nowhere compared to her web of political connections (how many Secretaries of States does he know? How many favors can he call in from mayors of big cities? How much pull does he have with Elections Boards & supervisors? How cozy is he with ESS and Sequoia and Diebold?)
She has more money behind her too.
If this were a real election, I agree, she'd be in a bit of bother.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Hunter S Thompson: Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72
“How many more of these goddam elections are we going to have to write off as lame but ‘regrettably necessary’ holding actions? And how many more of these stinking double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me at least the 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote for something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils? I understand, along with a lot of other people, that the big thing, this year, is Beating Nixon. But that was also the big thing, as I recall, twelve years ago in 1960—and as far as I can tell, we’ve gone from bad to worse to rotten since then, and the outlook is for more of the same.”
And more of the same, and more of the same, and more...
Soldiers are required to do their jobs when politicians fail to do theirs
My Facebook feed is littered
with so many Nazi-Fascist comparisons that's it's almost like playing whackamole. I point out the fallacy of their argument in one of them, get into a defcon one argument with someone who either has Jewish relatives, is married to someone with Jewish relatives, or has a close friend who has Jewish relatives, only to go the same 12 rounds in another post. But what's really jarring is how closely the convos I'm having now with fellow Dems, I remember having had online with Republicans after 9/11. Inevitably, the patriotism comes, the flag waving, and any mention of war and I'm accused of bashing America. Its deeply deeply disturbing to me.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Let's quit playing defense.
We have a unique opportunity this year to start the process of taking back our country. Every essay and comment has specific reasons on why they are seeking an alternative and voting for a third party. We should be on offense and attacking on social media anyone who is voting for a major party. They are wasting their vote to continue corruption, prolong austerity, weaken our world standing and the country we pass along to our grandchildren. It is insane to vote for HRC or DJT!!!!
The "block" function can be your friend.
Unless any of these people are potential Stein voters, why should you bother with them on Facebook? If they are your personal friends, then no doubt your friendship will be strengthened by quitting the Facebook melee. You should at least "unfollow" them.
“One of the things I love about the American people is that we can hold many thoughts at once” - Kamala Harris
These are all people I know
From when I lived in New York. Moved to California a few years ago and FB has been a way to keep in touch. I'm horrified, actually. I respected so many of them.
Yes, the unfollowing has already been happening, and I'm sad to say, some unfriending on both sides.
Obama & Bush elections were acrimonious to be sure, but not like this is.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Great essay! Thanks so much
To many Progressives, it always seems to come down to a decision of voting your fears because as much as you would like to vote for the long shot unicorn jockey of your hopes, it's always "not this, time, but maybe next time."
Yeah, next time you'll vote for something, not against something. Right. But that never happens because the boogieman of the opposition will always exist and there'll always be the Supreme Court, right?
The thing I can never figure out is that Progressives are always told their numbers are insignificant and they have inflated self worth if they think their vote will mean anything, but yet at the same time our insignificant vote is enough to cause defeat and chaos and be the defining factor in any loss. 90%! of Supporters are already penned, supposedly.
Be daring. Just for once try voting FOR something. As far as Hillary is concerned, at this point they're looking more for Republican votes than Liberal votes.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
Yes! That's the double standard in a nutshell.
“One of the things I love about the American people is that we can hold many thoughts at once” - Kamala Harris
I do not think Trump and his
I do not think Trump and his comments are the problem. His comments are designed to elect Hillary. Hillary Clinton in the White House is a threat to the remnants we have left of the middle class and New Deal along with the stability of the world. The message on all of Social Media is that there are Four Choices. The two from the major parties are ridiculous, if the voters take action like 2010 and 2014, they will be minor parties on the way to disappearing.
The Clinton's and cronies want a disillusioned electorate that will not pay attention and follow the media. Then they can "manage" us into the stone age.
for NY voters
Clinton should almost certainly carry NY state.
But, a sizeable vote for a third party candidate, most likely Stein in NY, I would hope for 15-25%, would be an embarrassment for Clinton, and, more important, it might serve to remind members of the NY Congressional delegation that rubberstamping whatever the Clinton WH proposes could get them recalled or defeated next election.
In the 22nd district, where I live, I believe every county, and possibly every precinct, voted heavily for Sanders in the primary, and if independents and WFP members had voted, it would have been a wipeout for Bernie. If Kim Myers is elected, she had best not be a rubberstamp for Hillary, no matter what the state party, ie, Mr. Schumer, might have promised her.
Mary Bennett
Having one's registration wiped by the DNC and then being told
told to vote for Hillary is like watching your car be stolen and then the fuckers coming back and demanding gas money.
Just sitting here on the sideline watching all these really smart people bicker about an "election" when there isn't any such thing anymore.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Dear Damnit Janet
I did get my voter registration card, which I shall take to the polls, along with ID and maybe even a child with a her smart phone to video tape if I get any hassle. So, I am guardedly optimistic that I get to vote.
I take your point about elections. My thinking right now is that one should do everything legally possible to a. deny Clinton anything that looks even remotely like a landslide, and b. make sure she gets a non-cooperative congress. I will take gridlock over WWIII.
I also believe that she will be impeached and likely removed from office. The Republicans are going to be furious if she tries to steal the election the way she did the primaries, never mind that they steal too, and she is just dumb enough to get caught doing it. If the Republican running for Congress in your district is even slightly palatable, you might want to consider the person a sure vote for impeachment. You can always turn the person out again in 2018.
Mary Bennett
Nastarana--you nailed our choices (at least the top 2) nicely
I second that.
@Nastarana be careful with the video taping
In many states (such as Ohio, where I live) recording inside the polling place is illegal. You will be accused of trying to intimidate the OTHER voters. You will be labeled as an "outside agitator" and trying to "disrupt" the conduct of an election.
Better to have the ACLU Voting Rights' lawyer on speed dial, if they're active in your area.
You keep using that word...
I'm here too, Janet.
Haven't forgotten you. Or the millions like you.
That's why I'm saying, Hillary doesn't need my vote to get her anywhere.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Haven't been scared
of tRumpf,actually. He's a buffoon that no one will work with. She's a sociopath, imo, and could seriously start a WW3. She wants to no fly Syria, more boots on the ground(hey, ASSHOLE!, they're People, too), continue to provoke Russky, iron ring China. . . my dog, whom Doesn't she want to piss off?!? Ffs she's talking about RESPONSIBLE use of nuclear weapons?!?!?
HEY! Earth to SPARKY! You use nw's and we all ain't gonna be no more!
And don't get me started on the domestic shit. Damn.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Misplaced fear
It's a duopoly right? Wasn't that one of the main parts of Bernie's stump speech? If Bernie's supporters actually listened to his message why would they fear the Trump over fearing The Mad Bomber? I didn't really listen to or watch the Republican convention. I did follow online and on the radio the Democratic Hillary Show and it scared the pants off me. Talk about fascist lunatic's.
They paraded out the mad killing machine and telling me how fucking great America is and how we must honor the enforcer troops. this disgusting display was to me way more terrifying then the Red theocratic and reality show loonies. The Blue has now surpassed them and is not a lesser evil it's the same evil.
I don't have a TV and when I did it just seemed to be wall to wall propoganda, fear and loathing. It's a by-partisan kabuki show, a wrestlin' match between the evils. I do not understand why people I know and respect are falling for this. How can anyone believe that the Clinton Third Way Demorats are not as dangerous as The Hairball. Not saying he's not a threat but at this point in time I'm more concerned about the people accepting the reality the Democrat's offer as inevitable and acquiescing to the necessity of consenting to giving the Democrat's power once again. Perhaps ordinary people have been so divided by the so called culture war and the endless kabuki show between the donkey and elephant puppets they prefer not to look at what the Democrat's really are.
If you believe what Bernie preached why not take your self out of this fake Red vs. Blue mind set and refuse to consent to either of the fascistic sides. There is no two sides or them vs. us. They are complicit. I think this all goes back to 9/11 when hysteria and fear was whipped up by both sides and they took away all restraints on power, to keep us safe. It's the Shock Doctrine and disaster capitalism writ large. What do people have to lose by refusing to consent to this partisan mockery of democracy? American's are so cowardly and blind that they seem to choose not to look at what's going down. They would rather blame the Other be they scary 'terrist's who are gonna kill yer family' or the RW pig ignorant idiots who both sides use to keep the power right where it is.
Identity politics based solely on race, gender, and all that jazz is not real when you consider what either side is hell bent on doing to humans and the planet. They are in cahoots and armed and dangerous to all of us. Why not have a real political revolution and quit fighting them using the fictitious reality they have carefully constructed globally. Watching The Hillary Show the only thing that stopped me from complete despair was what happened out side behind the protest walls and on the floor where the blue fascists had to work hard to create the illusion of unity and democracy. Why allow fear the right arm of the duopoly when the lesser evil sounds slightly better. It really doesn't if you listen to what they are really saying with their double speak. Just because Bernie turned out to be a dead end doesn't mean people should follow his 'lead' and support 'our' scary monsters. I don't care if they are female or black or whatever they are nothing I will support. They mean us harm.
This could cause a family feud
I can't talk politics with my brother in the USA because his support of Hillary is sickening. He bought the whole "making history" thing and expects as a woman I should be thrilled that she is a candidate. To my mind, making a big deal of gender of the candidate is sexist. If she gets in the WH, she will be co-president with Bill anyway. Qualifications and integrity count more than gender.
I'm just pretending indifference to the election because our relationship is not that strong to begin with.
To thine own self be true.
I have similar disagreements with some of my relatives
"Hillary is so tenacious and we need a woman President". I want a woman President too and at this point I think I like Jill better than I liked Bernie.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Here is a response to the privilege-shaming into voting
for Hillary"
https://medium.com/@discomfiting/youre-not-voting-for-hillary-to-protect...
It links to a superb twitter thread by @taygogo - I read the thread few days back. But today I see the twitter a/c is not valid anymore. Wondering what happened.
.@taygogo rocks nt
You keep using that word...
This is *your* money passage
Compared to CURRENT fascism, what is Trump? And how is another Democrat in the White House going to "stop fascism" if it goes on under the nose of the current Democratic President and he continues to sit there in the White House and dream of "trade deals" and of playing golf with Bill and W.?
Excellent clarity, from someone who's looking at the actual data rather than reciting talking points.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I'd love to just channel R.L. Stephens II
conveniently to be found at Orchestrated Pulse but also on Facebook, rather than have to demonstrate much of what I'm saying there.
“One of the things I love about the American people is that we can hold many thoughts at once” - Kamala Harris
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