90% of Sanders Supporters Are Now With Her! Really?
I'm sure we've all heard the figure being slung around recently that Unity! is coming to pass and that all the Sanders voters are now making s'mores and singing Kumbaya with the Clintonites over the Democratic campfire. 90%!
Leaving a paltry 10% of Sanders unenlightened curmudgeons to slink back to their dwellings in remote caves or under bridges, only to pop out occasionally with cries of "TPP!" or "Universal Healthcare!" or some other favored windmill joust with TPTB. Sanders supporters - you don't want to be one of those losers, do you? Don't you want to live proudly in the sunshine with the candidate who shatters glass ceilings and causes a wholesale reprinting of diner placemats around the country? Don't you realize that a vote not cast for HRC is a wasted vote? Does the name "Ralph Nader" mean anything to you? Such are the powerful blandishments meted out to this truculent minority.
Where did this 90% figure come from anyway? It came from this recent Pew Poll and Washington Post story, 90% of unwavering Sanders supporters plan to vote for Clinton in November Go ahead and read the story please, and look at the graphs. One aspect of the story addresses what's up with the obvious divide at the convention then? Which is answered that these are the MOST virulent Sanders supporters and not representative of the whole. Oh. . . . . . . okay. Yeah, sure, that must be it.
I have to say when this figure was first being promoted, I had lots of initial skepticism, most of it anecdotally based on my own experience. I haven't seen this movement towards Clinton myself. Instead I have seen many more people discussing their disgust with the political system in toto and considering not voting at all, writing in Sanders or investigating Greens. I'm sure that indeed some percentage of Sanders voters have moved with varying degrees of enthusiasm to Hillary as the pragmatic choice to stave off Trump, but I definitely question the 90% figure.
Is Daily Kos suddenly inundated with shamefaced Sanders prodigals returning to the fold? Does your Facebook reflect this? How about your friends and acquaintances? If anything, my husband commented the other day how shocked he was to see numbers of people he would never have in a million years suspected of ever announcing Trump support now say they are considering him! (Aside - I will never ever ever vote for Trump or advocate a vote for Trump, just in case you are in doubt)
Okay, so back to this 90% figure. Take a closer look at the Pew chart. The people being polled are "Democratic" or "Democratic leaning" voters. Aha! That may be the answer. People who self-identify as Democratic or Democratic leaning are, not surprisingly, going to stick with the Democratic nominee. How much of a surprise is that?
For reference, let's take a look at another article written by Nate Silver back in May: The Hidden Importance Of The Sanders Voters Please take the time to read the entire article, because it is very interesting and pay particular attention once again to the words "self-identify".
Notice how that even back in Silver's May article, the Dem voters were 87% behind Clinton in a matchup with Trump! So the 90% figure being touted now is possibly, in reality, a paltry 3% pick-up. Here is his key conclusion:
Thus, citing Clinton’s reasonably strong general election numbers among self-identified Democrats — she had the support of 87 percent of Democrats in a recent NBC News/SurveyMonkey poll in her matchup against Trump, for instance, and 83 percent in a Fox News poll that showed her behind Trump nationally — may miss her problems among liberal-leaning, Sanders-voting independents. In the Fox News poll, only 30 percent of independents went for Clinton, and in the SurveyMonkey poll, just 36 percent did. But both surveys showed a large pool of undecided independents, potentially the Sanders voters that YouGov identified.
Here's the issue for the Clinton campaign. The greatest danger now facing them is that they believe their own hype about 90% of Sanders voters being with them and falling into a complacency believing that now the Sanders contingent can be safely ignored in their swing rightward. I think this is potentially the reason for the Kaine VP pick which was a real finger in the eye to liberals, given his stance on TPP and some other issues. (Find his 2005 ad when he was running for Governor where he says "I am a conservative").
Being told that if you are still part of a recalcitrant minority of 10% if you STILL insist on supporting the Sanders agenda or any other alternative to Clinton, is simply one way to make you believe that you are part of a group that no one would choose to belong to - the terminally grumpy disaffects who have no influence and no commonality with the others of their ilk who have pledged to fall in line. It's similar to the tactic that was deployed when Sanders supporters were told they were all white males or even worse, sexist, racist, misogynists. It's an attempt at shaming any remaining Sanders supporters into thinking they are "losers" and have no option but to return to the Democratic herd.
Comments
I don't see anything close to 90%
I see some who have resigned themselves to voting for her because Trump, but that's all I see. That is maybe half of the Sanders people I know. Maybe. That percentage is dropping not rising. Since the DNC hack I've talked to multiple Sanders voters who were going to vote for Clinton and have now decided to stay home. Nobody likes her. Some just fear Trump more than her.
The "fear of Trump" vote is all the DNC wants from us. They
don't want our opinions, just our votes and of course our money. "Yes please! Send money!" But the DNC doesn't want our opinions, although their fundraising literature asks us what we think. The money goes in the bank, but the opinions are consigned to the good ol' circular file--the trash bin.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
I may be wrong, but isn't this what is called "gas lighting"?
Pretty close.
"Gaslighting" is the technique where one is made to question their sense of reality or memory of events, ultimately leading to self-doubt about one's own sanity.
If it works in this case, we should all be lying in our beds while the refrain 90%! 90%! 90%! plays over endlessly night after night until we finally succumb and send for our I'm With Her yard sign.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
Well, it bounced off me
Mostly because I simply don't care. I already knew that a fair number of Bernie supporters felt, for various reasons, that Hillary was some variation of acceptable. I already knew that those who think like me are in a minority. Other than mild intellectual curiosity -- which will best be satisfied at the end of the election -- why does the exact percentage of people who support Hillary matter to me?
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
She is the most qualified
candidate to run for President, ever. Don't cha know?
Love is my religion.
90% of the News Media
simply get paid for reading their scripts.
I heard that somewhere ...
They got nothin' on ol' Baghdad Bob:
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
Baghdad Bob!
I was a huge fan. Glad to see him popping up again.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Now we have Baghdad Brian Fallon
Please help support caucus99percent!
I am willing to be convinced otherwise, but I don't see half of
90% moving to Clinton. What's her nomination got to do with victims of the class war who have seen their real wages stagnate or decline? Clinton was, is, and will remain unpopular with those to the left of her neoliberal stance.
As for Nate Silver: I think he knows numbers but I am not convinced he knows much of anything about political dynamics.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
I'm nowhere near to convinced about 90% of Sanders'
voters going to Secretary Clinton. I think it's more bubblemania from The Village.
MSM hack #1: "90% of the Bernie voters that I KNOW are voting for Clinton."
MSM hack #2: "Yeah !!"
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
90%? Not to hear the people that I am in contact with tell it.
Many of the "nevers" are life long Democrats and want no part of Clinton. Then there are the independents who certainly have no allegiance to the Dem Party and they are not considering Clinton either.
I think the 90% is an unvarnished lie.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
Elsewhere on c99, someone asked "where
did the 90% figure come from?" I think the answer is, it was pulled out of the collective arses of the Democratic National Committee.
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
Here in Kentucky the unwashed masses will surely vote Drumpf..
We are not a swing state by any means so I am free to vote for Jill. And I am currently gathering signatures to put her on the ballot. May as well give the Green Party some numbers hopefully they can qualify for fed funds in the future.
Good for you for collecting signatures.
How's it going?
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
Made copies of the signature form and passed out to family and
.....friends. Will let you know later, since I started when Kaine was announced Filling the veep slot.
Here in Kentucky the unwashed masses will surely vote Drumpf..
We are not a swing state by any means so I am free to vote for Jill. And I am currently gathering signatures to put her on the ballot. May as well give the Green Party some numbers hopefully they can qualify for fed funds in the future.
Edit ..sorry for the duplicate post lol
I think she could maybe get half of that 90%
My gut is that 50% of Bernie supporters is probably about her max (I'm going to try and switch a few over to Stein though since CA is solid blue electorally). I would say that subsequent email releases could drag that number down except her opponent is a literal manifestation of the boogeyman.
FWIW... ~75% over at DKOS
Routinely when this was polled, somewhere around 25%-ish of Bernie supporters wouldn't vote for Hillary. I think that number needs to be adjusted upwards because how biased the population on DKOS is. I also think it's needs to be adjusted downwards because some number of people will succumb to Trump-fear between the poll date and November. How big either of those adjustments ought to be is anyone's guess.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
Considering how many Bernie supporters LEFT them...
And don't bother checking in to give them poll data...
I'd start with at least Tripling the raw "FUCK HILLARY" votes.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
In that case,
I'm proud to be among the 10% who will never vote for hrc. My integrity will remain intact.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Yes. Perhaps the best reply is
"90%? Really? Well, that ought to be enough then, combined with all the Republican Elites who are supporting her, too."
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Don't you just love being called "Privileged"
I've already unfollowed most of the "Progressive" sites I used to follow on Facebook...
There is no way I'm going to read how terrible I am for the next three months...
" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "
Me neither
And if it means Trump in the WH, I don't care.
They are two very different types of disaster, but roughly equivalent, in my view.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
I think the difference boils down to this...
The Republicans will stab you in the front, and the Democrats will stab you in the back.
Check out the Clinton Cash documentary:
[video:https://youtu.be/7LYRUOd_QoM]
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
They're all too busy patting themselves on the back...
...while confidently boasting that, "we don't want those losers in OUR Party anyway!" Their arrogance has turned this election into a Gore-LIEberman Redux. Remember how there was no way in hell that Gore-LIEberman could ever lose to the ticket of the barely-trained Chimp Man-Child and a real-life Darth Vader? Sometimes I think that Team Blue is throwing this election on purpose, because, after all, what's the easiest way to pass TPP and not lose the votes and campaign contributions of the rubes? Allow Republican'ts to win in November and then pass TPP in the lame duck session so that "Republican'ts don't make it 'worse' in the next Congress." And watch for Tim Kaine to go the full LIEberman, leave the Party of the people he called losers, embrace his self-proclaimed Conservatism and end up giving the keynote address at the 2020 RNC.
I want my two dollars!
Yes. I was living in the mountains of VA - you know a XX Gap
postal address - when he slithered on to the scene. His worldview didn't match mine and there wasn't even much where there was a bit of overlap. Kaine = Lieberman? I'd probably agree. It's a woeful choice from a woeful nominee.
Your drawing a parallel with the verbiage about Chimpy being impossible to lose to is very apt.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
The blue-washing of Tim Kaine's record
... was as cynically manipulative a ploy as anything I've seen in this election season. It was bitterly amusing to drop in at LOF to watch the Hillbots proudly display their freshly washed brains and celebrate that fine "Progressive" with endless copy and pastes of Brian Fallon's tweeted report card from Clinton-loving interest groups like Planned Parenthood PAC. Orwell would be proud of their subversion of the word Progressive.
As some have said, Hillary is 2016's Martha Coakley.
Please help support caucus99percent!
It goes along with the laughable claim that...
..Clinton and Sanders "agreed on 93% of the issues!" What they never tell you is that 7% they don't agree on are all the things that can kill you...
I want my two dollars!
Yeah, that one's BS too
That claim originated from a purported statistic that Sanders and Clinton voted the same on 93% of bills while she was in the Senate. Of course, Iraq and issues like that were in the 7%. Probably most of those 93% votes were naming post offices and the like. But don't expect Hillbots to show interest in little details like that.
Please help support caucus99percent!
Then compare
these percentages with say, mitch mconnell. With all the run of the mill, rubber stamp, everyone votes for/against, bills that came before the senate, mitch and clinton probably were in agreement 80 to higher percent of the time. They want to leave you with the impression that every vote in the senate/congress is split down party lines.
It's not quantity, it's the quality of the vote...
Yup...
It seems that PP is more interested in that sweet, sweet government cash than actually, you know, protecting women's health and their right to choose.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
Great phrase. Can I add white-washing of the ticket?
Since early in the primary season, Bernie supporters and then Bernie himself later were attacked as racists, clinging to white privilege, and misogynists--what I call a political fiction was created as a strawman figure to attack--BernieBros. Clinton even enlisted people like John Lewis to play the proverbial race card against Sanders. Hillary was praised as the only authentic candidate for people of color. That Hillary heralded a new Dem party in which the leading roles would be women and minorities with white males simply a useful appendage (the BernieBros would be cast out). And if you leave aside the cheating, African Americans and Hispanics were indeed absolutely critical to Hillary winning.
And after all of this rhetoric and visible support from African American and Hispanic leaders, Hillary appoints a white male candidate who supported many policies anathema to minorities. And as DNC chair he oversaw the 2010 election fiasco. If there ever was an example of white privilege here it is: a white guy supporting bad policies and who now has failed upward. In effect, Hillary white-washed the top of the ticket.
Clinton could have chosen an African American or Hispanic VP with the message that the person would be the party candidate after Clinton. This would have truly gone to the vision handling leadership to POC Democrats and counter essentially the BernieBros and their white privilege.
After all the political support minorities gave to Clinton, no tangible political gains except symbolic gestures. I have to think that many minority voters will not be pleased as I think African American and Hispanic voters do understand the critical role they played in electing Hillary as the party candidate. I have to wonder if one of the biggest stories (which the Dem establishment will ignore) will be average to below average turn out in minority communities.
Democrats already CHECKED that box...
They gave em their first AA president. Therefore, they get credit for the rest of time.
After Hillary, they will NEVER have another woman President. Unless of course she's a Clinton, and then we all know it will really be her husband in charge, wink wink.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Agree with most of your points, but not about AA voters'
awareness of their power in the Democratic Party.
After the 2012 GE, WaPo's analysis was that it was the AA vote that put 'O' over the top. If you recall, 'O' won with approximately 6 million fewer votes (than in 2008), with very heavy losses among white voters.
For whatever reason, the MSM didn't play it up, but the record turnout for 'O' in the AA community was in 2012--not for his initial historic run in 2008.
(I posted the WaPo piece at DKos. You can imagine how well it went over!)
Anyhoo, because of the very extensive organization that's gone on both before, and during this Administration, I rather doubt that any Democratic Party Presidential nominee can win the primary, or the GE, without carrying a huge portion of the AA community's votes.
BTW, 2012 was the first year since records have been kept--according to WaPo--that the percentage of AAs voting, exceeded the percentage of Caucasian (white non-Hispanic) voters. I'm saying proportionately, or percentage-wise--not in raw numbers, obviously.
Oddly, the turnout for Dems this primary season was depressed in total numbers (from 2008); whereas, the Repubs enjoyed record turnout in the recent Primary cycle--even surpassing the record of their beloved Ronald Reagan.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit and therefore– to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
The SOSD Fantastic Four
Available For Adoption, Save Our Street Dogs, SOSD
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Tim Kaine on SS
He also mirrors HRC's hawkish views.
What IMO we will get with a Hillary presidency.
TTP and other disasterous trade deals.
Weakening of current reforms and deregulation of the banks and financial institutions.
Some form of the grand bargain which will include cuts to SS and Medicare and corporate tax breaks.
An escalation and expansion of current military conflicts.
We have a choice between the frying pan and the fire and neither will be good for us.
IMO Trump will win Missouri. Last poll he was up by 10%. I will be voting Stein.
Yup.
I have been a Democrat for forty years. I will never vote for her. I said it often at GOS, from the get go. I am also proud to be that '10%.' I have integrity. She does not have one iota of integrity.
Part of why I said it there was so people did not feel alone. I knew I was not the only one.
BTW, my 90-something year old MIL is refusing to vote. She has voted straight Democratic for more years than I have been alive.
I do wonder how they arrive at such a number
Not nearly enough time has passed for such a number to be compiled.
Need to make a parody tune using The Byrds "Turn Turn Turn" -- "Spin Spin Spin..... with apologies to The Byrds.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
97% of statistics
pulled outta yer ass is accurate. I read it on the internet.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
Yes,
it is called massaging the data.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
It is called "inventing the data".
Why massage when you can simply make shit up?
The comment before, "pulling it out of their ass" is....
....more accurate, in my opinion. Because that's exactly where that number came from.
no wonder
if they were polling me and asked if I was a democrat, I would say no and not be included in the poll. My guess is they will be lucky to get half of Bernie's supporters. The Clintonistas just don't get it.
Here's a 10 min piece between an Emily list hillbot and a sanders delegate leader from CA. She doesn't understand it's the issues not the person. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YMzDAbgdjg
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YMzDAbgdjg]
As usual they underestimate the Berniecrats.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Wow! He was good.
I have to wonder what the Secretary would be running on if Trump were not the republican candidate. I used to like Jess McIntosh. All she can offer is that Secretary Clinton is a woman and did something nice for a few people. BUT - at great gains for herself (and her family)! And we shouldn't count all the people who were harmed. I can't get over the fact that her daughter, at 35, is a multi millionaire (not counting her husband's millions).
And about that poll, it's not supported by the videos I saw last night of the half empty hall at the convention when Sanders supporters walked out after Secretary Clinton was nominated.
Wow...
So Debbie quit and now everybody is going to just let by-gone be by-gones and damn! That Trump is SCARY! Hey - yeah - I just smacked you in the face, but that was in the past - what are you going to do? Leave me? That other guy is going to smack you harder! Her response is pathetic. She address Bernie and his staffers and totally ignores the members of the party. We are going to hear more about Hillary? Oh goody. I'm sorry - the only plus I ever here about Clinton is that she has a vagina. Sorry for my crudeness.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
And it's too old to be of any use.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
ROFL, that video Rocks!
I like the Jess McIntosh talking about how thrilled she is that we've all forgotten that the DNC is corrupt as hell.
No, we are not all on the same team because I don't team with corruption.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
not in my realm
not even 50%, not even close to that. Im seeing masse DemExit and more
thanks for sourcing this and unpacking it, well done
A couple of #DemExit Graphics
Sound of Music
Second one is based on a 1965 United Airlines jingle - "You're not just flying - you're flying the friendly skies." This one's for Divided Airlines.
90% number comes from those same experts
Who know the details of the Russian hack of the DNC servers. The ones who speak out of Robby Mook's ass, in other words.
Driving around town, I see as many Bernie bumper stickers as ever, but weeks go by without my seeing either a Hillary or a Trump sticker. I have no doubt a substantial number of Sanders supporters will fall into line, but I'd be surprised if it amounts to 50%. I don't know any of them. And the more the Hillary campaign bumbles and lurches rightward in coming months, the fewer it will likely become. We can only hope the Green alternative catches fire, otherwise the media will make sure we never find out.
Please help support caucus99percent!
That seems low. I'd wager 95% or more
will eventually "come around". Fear and laziness don't only infect Republicans and Hillbots you know.
Let the guilting and shaming begin!!
There was a particularly egregious example in the Letters section of today's paper.
It's going to be a long 3+ months.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
When the media pie-holes are all regurgitating the
same information at the same time in the same way, your skepticism antenna has to go up, especially when you have the evidence from the convention right in front of you.
Bernie can't control his voters and the delegates don't control the voters, only the voters control the voters.
The real question which no one addresses is how did a candidate with PACS, Power, Money, the President, the Party apparatus, a cleared playing field, reduced debates, and an opponant with almost no media presence, DO SO POORLY?
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
...DO SO POORLY?
You hit an essential point with that last paragraph Phoebe ! Watching the role call vote at the convention made me so aware of how purely juvenile our political scene is, especially watching Cuomo and Schumer "lead" the NY delegation. It's way worse than the worst Super Bowl halftime show but, that energy seems to be what impels the whole thing along. Our MSM has to respond in an infantile way to all this or....no job for you ! Bernie is mature, and his backers are (mostly) as well. He is used to the shit that comes at him from the political infants, and pretty much blows it off. We, on the other hand, are seriously hurt, shaken, and in a state of disbelief at, not only the display of juvenile behavior, but at the banal evilness of it all, and the true pain that it inflicts on the powerless and the planet.Interesting that the young are now so much more mature and wise than their political elders. I feel it is because they have not agreed to internalize powerlessness, or to play along with the infant script.I hear so many wise and beautiful young people now. It is impossible for me to "be with Hillary", like it is impossible for oil to "be" with water. I still wonder if we'll see any mature outreach from her and her campaign now....I doubt it !
I copied this somewhere,
Probably here. I saved it for my own use, but I think it should be widely shared.
(If you wrote this, please speak up. I should have copied down a name for the quote.)
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Thanks
You're welcome to use it anytime.
90% of the remaining Bernie
90% of the remaining Bernie supporters who out of fear will vote for her anyway, which means they were never strong supporters of Bernie or the platform we had to look forwards to...
A platform where many are headed to Green-er pastures. Rely not on MSM for your information, they lie anyway.
So long, and thanks for all the fish
Psyops
I've been seeing references to this poll on FB tonight. My immediate reaction was that it was a "psyops" kind of tactic. Convince Berners that their compatriots have all turned on them, leaving them all alone. Isolate, confuse, and demoralize them so they'll follow the crowd that's supposedly gathering around Hillary.
I can see the Dem establishment falling for their own con, though. (Narcissists tend to do that.)
On FB, there are some Bernie supporters who say they will follow Bernie's lead and vote for H, but I'm seeing far more who say they will not. That's true even - or perhaps especially - among those who are Dem or Dem-leaning (many are DemExit folks). It's still pretty chaotic right now, though, since people are still working through the emotional fallout and trying to get their bearings. There is some reorganization and realignment starting to take place.
There's always been an innate creativity and resilience in the Bernie movement, which to me is a sign that this is the real deal, a true revolutionary movement. Based on what I'm observing, I believe that's still there post-nomination. From what some of the younger Berners are posting on FB, they seem to be in an accelerated process of maturing politically, coming to terms with how things work and adapting while continuing to move forward, rather than allowing it to stop them. In my view, the Millennials are driving the revolution, so I think that's a good sign for whatever happens next (at least from a revolutionary's standpoint). It certainly does not indicate a mass migration to the Hillary camp, not even for strategic purposes.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
It's been estimated, via polls, at 70-75% all along hasn't it?
It might be close to 90% of Sanders supporters who are democratic party supporters, but Sanders had a significant percentage of the indie vote so I doubt its 90% including indies. But its still a pretty high percentage.
What that told me all along about Sanders political revolution was that most of those supporting him were people who also support and approve of Obama's job performance. A war criminal. Now they're voting for Clinton, a war criminal So what were they going to accept relative to that so called revolution. It told me the revolution was suspect because most of those supporting it were people who were willing to support war criminals and war. That kind of perspective will never be conducive to revolution.
You're 100% right.
Anyone falling in line right now and bending the knee for Hillary was already a Democrat to begin with. Probably not 90%, but certainly the majority. Most of the polls that have been asking this question seem to have been doing so among longtime Democrats. That's why everyone in the media is getting it wrong, even TYT.
A huge chunk of Bernie's support comes from independents, enough so that it could tilt polls in open primary states that had Hillary up by 10-15 points. The models were so wrong this entire political season precisely because they underestimated his support among indies. The Democrats have completely alienated these voters, especially millennials, and that should scare the crap out of them right now, because there is no way in hell that they can win them back.
If you listen to the people being interviewed at the convention, a lot of them are not lifelong Democrats. Some are, but many are not. These are new voters and independents that switched their party affiliation to vote for Bernie. The media is saying that the delegates are not representative of the average Bernie voter, but they are wrong. They are the quintessential Bernie voters, and are acting on the principles that he espoused throughout the campaign, which is why they refuse to fall in line, even when Bernie himself asks them to. No one person can control a movement.
i'm sure I saw this elsewhere ...
... perhaps on twitter, but Nate Silver took this Pew 90% claim apart. It was a poll done with only two choices, Clinton or Trump, no third party, no none of the above. That's not the choice that will be in front of us.
here you go ...
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/757954632601796608
Thanks for adding that.
Although I doubt anyone will veer from the 90%! pre-approved script and talking point.
The media doesn't get that when they reduce to a Chatty Cathy doll with a string in their back that is pulled to say the pre- programmed phrases, they look like asses. The same with the Party surrogates.
I would give anything to return to a world where people on the tee-vee had their own personal opinions and thoughts and not the idiotic talking points they are told never to stray from.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
Pretty much what I thought
Rigged poll.
oligarchic psyops
gives a new meaning to "push polling"
bygorry
(No subject)
bygorry
That poll came out late June,
Before Bernie endorsed as the July 25 article reports, but well before the wikileaks.
We'll have a more current view of the landscape Sunday/Monday when the post convention polls come out.
Btw, Reuters/iPsos came out yesterday. Trump up, Hillary down, other up to 24%. Has some wikileaks in it.
Delusional, made-up BS
that nobody with a working brain believes.
That they are going to such brazen lengths to force a lie on our population is something that gives me great pause. I am beginning to wonder if we're not in more trouble than we think?
I stopped wondering ...
... a few months ago. yes, yes. we are in more trouble than we think. The absolute chasm between actually progressives and the elite that call themselves progressive that Bernie exposed surprised me greatly. Now I'm looking at people whose opinions I implicitly trusted in a new light, and I don't like what I'm seeing. One of my old math profs parting advice on graduation was "question everything". Thanks, Mr. P.
It will be interesting ...
.... to watch for the convention bump or lack thereof next week. If it's not significant enough, I think the football spiking will revert to normal, everyday Democratic fear and handwringing.
I almost wish I still subscribed to DNC fundraising emails, but I couldn't take anymore after the last cycle. Got me too depressed.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a post convention drop
The convention, combined with the DNC email dump, could result in a drop for Hillary. I'd really like to see how the MSM will try to explain that away. The visuals of a half empty convention event can possibly be viewed in a positive way.
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush
They will blame Bernie supporters for her drop.
Like they blamed Nader for Gore losing Oregon although he also lost his home state of Tennessee.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
So I'm in the top 10% and that's a bad thing?
There are already too many percent memes
I know what you mean, I am one of the mythical 10% of Bernie voters who won't roll to Clinton. Too long for a T-shirt. We will now put swept into the ignore the rabble-rousers pile. Just they wait.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
(Eliza Doolittle voice:) ♫ ♪ Just you wait,
’Enry ’Iggins’Illary Clinton, just you wait . . .(song from My Unfair Lady)
And... in an article from NPR
And... in an article from NPR this morning they throw out the "misogyny" card again in a statement that Clinton suffers among "white male voters...a demographic that favors Trump". I so tired of the slut shaming that is being used full force by the Clinton campaign. I'm with you Phoebe. I will never vote Trump,. but I will never vote Hillary either. I'm a 63 YO male, raised with 4 siblings by a widowed mother, and lived in a farm community where women were more integral to the success of the farm and family , ECONOMICALLY, SOCIALLY, AND ACADEMICALLY than were the men. I am not a misogynist just because I do not support HRC, and I'm getting more pissed daily at the crap coming from the "unified Democratic Party" . I firmly believe the 90% figure is deeply flawed, and just a continuation of the corruption of the DNC against the progressive movement, and Sander's supporters
I'm a 64 year old white lady who's not buying
the shit Hillary is shoveling. I know that the only thing she has in common with me is the color of her skin and a non-working vagina. That just won't cut it! I don't need her sneering condescension.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
Nine Out of Ten Dentists Recommend Crest!
It's a fact Jack!
https://thenoisebleed.com/2012/06/29/why-does-only-9-of-10-dentist-recom...
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
Ivory soap — 99 and 44/100 percent pure! n/t
Larry Sabato on CNN
said that 85% of Sanders supporters are already with Clinton and that that number is expected to rise to 90% by November. The CNN host then showed him their recent poll numbers that showed only 64% of Sanders supporters say they will be voting for Hillary.
It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back. Carl Sagan
The years I lived in VA, Sabato was always quoted, almost daily
and I formed the opinion about him that he talked continuously, like an oral sausage making machine, and the media just cut off a slice and ran it. "There's always more of that on the way"...I never found him to be insightful or astute, merely verbose.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
My husband went to UVA and I we both
spent our late childhood through college in VA, moving in and out of the area a few times since. I can't stand Sabato. I'm not impressed with his credentials considering what idiocy he spouts.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
And as Hillary commences her inevitable pivot rightward
(she can't help it anymore than a salmon can fight the urge to go upstream to spawn) those numbers will go lower.
Not to mention whatever Wikileaks revelations are still waiting to be unwrapped.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
My Facebook page
Is interesting because I have only a very few political junkies. Two are from Alaska, one from New York, one from the southern states and a couple of state reps who are republicans. Here having some mild republicans is a defense against the third way dems who like to build monuments to themselves at tax payer expense while raising taxes on the poor.
My two reps are strangely silent about the presidential election. Considering they were polluting my page with Mitt Romney stuff four years ago this is odd. My left leaning group the New Yorker will follow Bernies lead but is not asking anyone else to. One of my fellow marijuana legalization advocate friends is railing against Hillary. The rest support Jill Stein.
My other 250 friends are just regular folk. I have a dozen Trump supporters, one who will vote for Hillary but doesn't like her. The rest like to post things like 2016 we're screwed bumper sticker pictures.
I am wondering if Jill Stein could actually win this state? Anything is possible here at this point. We are not exactly known for knuckling under to authority. You saw the primary numbers if herself gets elected the western states may flip out.
Even bat-shit conservatives get Bernie faster than Hill Dems
showed up on my twitter feed this morning.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2597838
The revolution is not over. The initial ripple effects are just starting.
I still recommend a shower after leaving the examiner site.
I suspect that all this hippy bashing is part of a
strategy by the DNC to prevent a movement like the Tea Party from gaining power to the left of the DNC. DNC party insiders have seen how the Tea Party has disrupted the power of the GOP.
I think Dem Party officials, led by Bill and Hillary, have laid out a strategy to retain power at what the call the center, but which we consider to be on the Right. All this hippy bashing and Bernie slandering is meant to retain control of the "Democratic" Party which represents the 1% very nicely. The "Democratic" Party has had to shed democratic principles for autocratic ones in order to maintain power and keep the support of the 1% and their money.
Lip service will be given to ending Citizens United, but I believe that the TPP and the other treaties currently coming down the pike will likely give corporations ultimate power over the US government no matter what our Constitution and our laws say. The final shreds of our democracy are about to be swept away either by a Clinton or Trump presidency.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
In other words,
the revolution will be even more difficult after the election if Hillary wins because the oligarchs will have consolidated even greater power under her administration.
That is less likely to happen under a Trump administration. So to hell with old and tired fear tactics, thank you very much.
really, really
depends on what the kids do. More millennials voted for Sanders than for Clinton or Trump combined. If they remain true to the ideal, then the third way DLC Republicrats die of old age, same thing as will happen with the Tea Party on the right. All that demographics is destiny line of thinking now has to be reevaluated.
Meantime, I plan on voting only for true progressive ideals. That means my current congressperson is out.
But now I've got to decide what to do about Elizabeth Warren when she comes up. I'm going to let that one stew a bit.
Trump has repeatedly opposed TPP.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Pages