I am pretty sure that voting Trump will be calling up armies of Orcs, Wargs and other ill creatures.
So will the Nazgûl come out before or after the election?
Mind you, as a dedicated fantasy buff, I am not saying this is a bad thing.
Also, is it just me or does Mike Pence look like Sauromon with a really short haircut?
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—
____________________________________________________________________________
"I'm not interested in preserving the status quo; I want to overthrow it. "
-Niccolo Machiavelli
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
"Do you realize the responsibility I carry?
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
He asked if I'd vote for Hillary now, & I said Nooo! He said all the women he knew were voting for her, because she's a woman. I said there's Jill Stein - she's a woman and she's clean. So we talked for a while about the Clintons' corruption, & finally I said I might even vote for Trump.
He said, he could do a lot of damage, and I said, yeah, he could, but I thought we'd survive the kind of damage he might do, just not the kind of damage Hillary would do - the TPP/sovereignty and probably starting a nuclear war. It was interesting. People are paying attention.
but if it gets to the point where the race is competitive, I will vote for Trump to keep HRC out. The neoliberal Democrats need to be crushed and the party either needs to be rendered nonviable or purged of every last remaining vestige of the establishment. Anything less than that is unacceptable.
Both dangerous, egomaniacs. Both trash. We know how dangerous HRH is, Donald might be worse, we have no idea. What nut jobs are going to have his ear? we have no idea. He'll say anything (like her). Read Mayer's piece on him in The New Yorker, I linked to it a day or so ago.. Terrifying. Both are terrifying.
I have a diary up right now about something that may really shake up the anti-Hillary vote. Trump may be about to make a serious play for Sanders supporters and independent voters and also Libertarians.
Catch his nomination acceptance speech wherein he made several references to Bernie getting robbed in rigged elections. Although it won't be me, I'll bet there are many Lefties who would vote Trump instead of Medusa--I won't vote for snake-head either.
He is saying some things but he hasn't come out with an actual plan to do something yet. Once that happens Hillary may have real trouble. Even if you don't vote for Donald due to the speculative plan I diaried his volunteers taking about you may refuse to vote for Hillary if she doesn't respond.
Judging by the rest of the comments, they're voicing more directly feelings others here have. And they've been engaging in discussion in the comments, albeit with short responses.
Let's not make this place like GOS by declaring people to be trolls and not backing up the declaration.
But what would they be discrediting? If anything, it'd just add more evidence to the claim that Hillary is losing votes to Trump. And it's not like the democrats that back Hillary need any evidence to discredit anybody. Not supporting Hillary is all the evidence they need to consider someone or a group of someones irrelevant.
that I would vote for Trump to keep HRC out of the White House. I meant it then, and I mean it now. (My original statement was qualified by what I see happening at the polls in November--if I can trust them.)
1. We do not know what Trump will do; we DO know what HRC will do.
2. HRC losing will send a huge message to the establishment.
3. Four years of Trump vs eight years of Clintons (remember two for the price of one). Or as I said in another essay thread: Monarchs do not believe in term limits. We re not looking at Obama's third term, but at Bill Clinton's (unless we forget, he had plenty of war tendencies also).
4. Democrats will fight Trump (even HRC supporters will get on board for this); they will not fight HRC who will believe that if she wins by one vote that she has a mandate to do whatever the hell she pleases.
5. HRC is racist period as proven by her actions; Trump may be as exemplified by his rhetoric. Why does he have black, Muslim and Latinx supporters?
6. Young blacks and Latinx can protect themselves easier and more effectively than the aging population, and they will. The Clintons WILL privatize social security. Trump has defended social security and Medicaid for a very long time (that is not to say that he would be able to stop his party from trying, but many Democrats will fight them when they won't fight HRC and the corporate Dems).
7. Trump's ego says he does not like to be pushed around, so he and the Republicans will fight.
8. SCOTUS: Democrats can block/filibuster nominations which they won't do with HRC but will with Trump. In addition, Congress (we DO need to get some more progressives in there) can overturn a SCOTUS decision with legislation and/or amendments. They have done it many, many times. HRC will appoint corporatists and Roe v Wade is NOT a litmus test for her (cf. her VP selection).
9. Trump says he is willing to talk to dictators. This is a good thing, HRC remarks notwithstanding. HRC will bomb first, ask questions later...or laugh.
10. Trump may not currently believe in climate change (although, all we have is his rhetoric to go by and the fact that he was trying to win the Republican nomination may have had a lot to do with that), but HRC has deliberately promoted and fought for fracking around the world. Obama has not exactly been a climate change president either.
There is more, but I think you get the point. Breaking the leash that ties the Democratic Party to the elite and getting as many progressives in office around the country would be a step forward.
Besides, someone has to help make up the difference from all the votes HRC plans to steal.
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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
stick for the most part to the issues. Besides, as many would state, Trump is a bit lose with the truth also. Although, I see him more as a used car salesman.
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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
They are both terrible candidates, but it's clear that Trump would likely do less damage than Clinton, as with Trump there would be some pushback, whereas with Clinton much less so.
I live in Blue Illinois which probably will be for hrc for sure and I plan on voting for Jill, unless it gets close by election day and who knows we do have a repug. Governer now, At that point I will hold my nose and vote t rump.
Not sure why anybody here would advocate voting for somebody as right wing as Trump. IMO voting between Hillary and Trump is like voting for cat turd or dog turd for dinner. I'm not having either option.
We know HRC will "pivot" during the GE--hell, she started doing this way before conniver-vention. It is quite likely that Trump may pivot more to her left now that the Repubs have anointed him. In this case, some fears of him may be made less odious. Still, how the hell did the USA get into such a fucked up election? Rhetorical question really. It's the corruption, stupid.
That shows a really severe misunderstanding of the class forces at work here, as well as a complete lack of understanding of the point we are at in trying to overthrow this oligarchic system. I don't have the time to go into this in detail, but very briefly Trump is absolutely part of the feudalist faction of the .01%, as opposed to Clinton's "managed consent" faction. Forget anything that comes out of Trump's mouth, because he's clearly demonstrated over the years that it's all just verbal diarrhea anyway, designed to confuse and disarm. Instead pay attention to how he has behaved and run his businesses, how he has dealt with people who have worked for him, how he systematically preys on and plunders others, and how that translates to the society at large. Maybe more on that stuff later if I can find time. Just remember: this is real life, not some stupid movie.
In other words, why, in the aftermath of the corruption at the DNC, why should any of us think our votes matter at all? The system is rigged, as said famously by DT. Whoever really decides will let the rest of us know in a few months, and afterwards nothing will change. Again.
very briefly Trump is absolutely part of the feudalist faction of the .01%, as opposed to Clinton's "managed consent" faction.
So you can, with evident sincerity claim that Clintons are not part of the .01%? How can you believe a single word emanating from Medusa's mouth? Everything she says is absolute bullshit. "Management consent", what a damn euphemism that is for continued and probably increased authoritarianism. No, I don't believe Trump--but seriously, how can any person knowledgable about Medusa's amorality pretend that she is any other than a lying sack of shit?
It's just that "cowpats" is a nicey-nice euphemism for shit.
Trump is of the .01%. The Clintons serve the .01%. Not a lot of difference between them except that Trump is clearly the better strategist (or has better advisors).
The Clintons and The DNC declared war on us, and we need to do everything we can to make sure they lose.
A group from Reddit and a group of Trump voters joined forces to go rhrough and catalog the wiki leaks. if people from both sides are joining up, Clinton is dead .
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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
And that is with a decidedly horrible, terrible, miserable Republican governor.
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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
"I am sincerely trying to figure out whether Trump is really worse than Clinton. Yes, Trump is frequently overtly outrageous, but when I consider the fact that she picked an anti-abortion, pro-TPP, Wall Street apologist for her VP, I really don't know if she is truly any less disgusting and maybe she's worse- DOMA, DADT, mass incarceration of African Amercans, "brought to heel", etc.- that's some really bad shit, I mean really, really, bad. Add in the warmongering, email server, the fraudulent primary, is this woman better than Trump, in any way?"
"One thing I am sure of- if Clinton becomes President, it is the end of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, and that is worse than Trump."
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
rather than sitting in darkness in a jail cell with an open door, like the hapless cast of Sartre's No Exit. Right now I'm not too sure they remember how to fly.
Hillary?
No.
Either would be complete disrespect for my vote.
Disrespect yours if you're that self-loathing, but don't invite me to that personal hell.
I think that's a good word for it. We were being marginalized even before Ronald Reagan won. What I see right now is that the oligarchs control both parties and have no intention of letting the plebs have anything. By voting the lesser of two evils or "strategic" voting we have helped the process. Now is not the time for half measures. We either vote for decency and honesty or we vote ourselves inside the barbed wire. A plague on both of their houses.
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-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962
I shall cast a vote neither for him nor for Secretary Clinton.
At least as far as I know - what actually happens to the vote once I have cast it is another matter entirely.
Our own talk is forcing us into a dialectic. When all one sees are two choices, it is time to take a deep breath, tune out the noise from outside, turn off the noise in one's head, and think.
Let us consider the following two propositions.
Mr. Trump shall be an unmitigated disaster for all habitation.
That Secretary Clinton will also be an unmitigated disaster for all habitation alters nothing about the semantics of the first statement, whether or not one agrees with either statement.
We ought to stop wasting our time with these clown candidates, and find a way to work together out of trust and necessity to repair the relationships with one another and to implement solutions to actual problems.
Comments
Corruption
Accepted in our system. Hillary has her own legal standards.
Why???
What has gone wrong?
One law for me, another for you.
WTF
Is wrong with our country?
Says the Unblinking Eye of Sauron
I am pretty sure that voting Trump will be calling up armies of Orcs, Wargs and other ill creatures.
So will the Nazgûl come out before or after the election?
Mind you, as a dedicated fantasy buff, I am not saying this is a bad thing.
Also, is it just me or does Mike Pence look like Sauromon with a really short haircut?
____________________________________________________________________________
"I'm not interested in preserving the status quo; I want to overthrow it. "
-Niccolo Machiavelli
"Sorry Hillary"
-TheJerry
Hillary is Gollum
EOM
Shelob
Obama is Gollum. He lead us to this dark path.
[video:https://youtu.be/0gVBVdgs3Sw?t=2m3s]
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Yep... Me Precious...
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
Bleechhhhhh...
EOM
Talked with a Republican at gas pumps about my Bernie stickers
He asked if I'd vote for Hillary now, & I said Nooo! He said all the women he knew were voting for her, because she's a woman. I said there's Jill Stein - she's a woman and she's clean. So we talked for a while about the Clintons' corruption, & finally I said I might even vote for Trump.
He said, he could do a lot of damage, and I said, yeah, he could, but I thought we'd survive the kind of damage he might do, just not the kind of damage Hillary would do - the TPP/sovereignty and probably starting a nuclear war. It was interesting. People are paying attention.
Hillary
Is a strange person, much like Bill, two destructive people put in positions of power.
No.
I'm in a solidly blue state and I plan to vote for Jill
but if it gets to the point where the race is competitive, I will vote for Trump to keep HRC out. The neoliberal Democrats need to be crushed and the party either needs to be rendered nonviable or purged of every last remaining vestige of the establishment. Anything less than that is unacceptable.
Chaos
Is our friend. Establishment our enemy. Level the economic field.
Absolutely not! Both he and HRH are beyond the pale.
Both dangerous, egomaniacs. Both trash. We know how dangerous HRH is, Donald might be worse, we have no idea. What nut jobs are going to have his ear? we have no idea. He'll say anything (like her). Read Mayer's piece on him in The New Yorker, I linked to it a day or so ago.. Terrifying. Both are terrifying.
Don't believe everything you think.
Hillary
Iraq, Honduras, Libya, Syria
Goldman Sachs, Wall Street
NAFTA, GATT, WTO
.....
Saw bumpersticker today
"Big Ass Meteor - 2016"
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Asteriod
Named Clinton.
So,
how exactly would I sign up to volunteer for the meteor?
Just sign up
and then the Big Ass Meteor will email you every day asking for $3.00 donations and help with Money Bombs.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
I have a diary up right now
I have a diary up right now about something that may really shake up the anti-Hillary vote. Trump may be about to make a serious play for Sanders supporters and independent voters and also Libertarians.
He's already begun making his play for Berners
Catch his nomination acceptance speech wherein he made several references to Bernie getting robbed in rigged elections. Although it won't be me, I'll bet there are many Lefties who would vote Trump instead of Medusa--I won't vote for snake-head either.
He is saying some things but
He is saying some things but he hasn't come out with an actual plan to do something yet. Once that happens Hillary may have real trouble. Even if you don't vote for Donald due to the speculative plan I diaried his volunteers taking about you may refuse to vote for Hillary if she doesn't respond.
Go back to GOS
Yep, a troll
Based on?
Judging by the rest of the comments, they're voicing more directly feelings others here have. And they've been engaging in discussion in the comments, albeit with short responses.
Let's not make this place like GOS by declaring people to be trolls and not backing up the declaration.
I don't have any proof
so maybe I was hasty.
But this essay was exactly like what a DKos troll would post to discredit C99P.
Just sayin'.
Perhaps
But what would they be discrediting? If anything, it'd just add more evidence to the claim that Hillary is losing votes to Trump. And it's not like the democrats that back Hillary need any evidence to discredit anybody. Not supporting Hillary is all the evidence they need to consider someone or a group of someones irrelevant.
I said many moons ago now,
that I would vote for Trump to keep HRC out of the White House. I meant it then, and I mean it now. (My original statement was qualified by what I see happening at the polls in November--if I can trust them.)
1. We do not know what Trump will do; we DO know what HRC will do.
2. HRC losing will send a huge message to the establishment.
3. Four years of Trump vs eight years of Clintons (remember two for the price of one). Or as I said in another essay thread: Monarchs do not believe in term limits. We re not looking at Obama's third term, but at Bill Clinton's (unless we forget, he had plenty of war tendencies also).
4. Democrats will fight Trump (even HRC supporters will get on board for this); they will not fight HRC who will believe that if she wins by one vote that she has a mandate to do whatever the hell she pleases.
5. HRC is racist period as proven by her actions; Trump may be as exemplified by his rhetoric. Why does he have black, Muslim and Latinx supporters?
6. Young blacks and Latinx can protect themselves easier and more effectively than the aging population, and they will. The Clintons WILL privatize social security. Trump has defended social security and Medicaid for a very long time (that is not to say that he would be able to stop his party from trying, but many Democrats will fight them when they won't fight HRC and the corporate Dems).
7. Trump's ego says he does not like to be pushed around, so he and the Republicans will fight.
8. SCOTUS: Democrats can block/filibuster nominations which they won't do with HRC but will with Trump. In addition, Congress (we DO need to get some more progressives in there) can overturn a SCOTUS decision with legislation and/or amendments. They have done it many, many times. HRC will appoint corporatists and Roe v Wade is NOT a litmus test for her (cf. her VP selection).
9. Trump says he is willing to talk to dictators. This is a good thing, HRC remarks notwithstanding. HRC will bomb first, ask questions later...or laugh.
10. Trump may not currently believe in climate change (although, all we have is his rhetoric to go by and the fact that he was trying to win the Republican nomination may have had a lot to do with that), but HRC has deliberately promoted and fought for fracking around the world. Obama has not exactly been a climate change president either.
There is more, but I think you get the point. Breaking the leash that ties the Democratic Party to the elite and getting as many progressives in office around the country would be a step forward.
Besides, someone has to help make up the difference from all the votes HRC plans to steal.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Hillary
Pathological Liar.
I didn't want to go there as I was trying to
stick for the most part to the issues. Besides, as many would state, Trump is a bit lose with the truth also. Although, I see him more as a used car salesman.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Agree
Trump is establishing negotiation positions. Very smart.
Thanks for defusing the arguments to not vote for Trump
They are both terrible candidates, but it's clear that Trump would likely do less damage than Clinton, as with Trump there would be some pushback, whereas with Clinton much less so.
I agree
I live in Blue Illinois which probably will be for hrc for sure and I plan on voting for Jill, unless it gets close by election day and who knows we do have a repug. Governer now, At that point I will hold my nose and vote t rump.
No Nose Holding
Never HRC
This site is further left of Clinton.
Not sure why anybody here would advocate voting for somebody as right wing as Trump. IMO voting between Hillary and Trump is like voting for cat turd or dog turd for dinner. I'm not having either option.
Turd Party
Status Quo
Trump is running to the LEFT of Hillary
Before I left DKos forever last March, I predicted that Trump could easily run to the LEFT of Hillary in the general election. And he is.
"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
No thank you
Thank you
For reading.
Wind Dancer makes some good points--10 of them actually
We know HRC will "pivot" during the GE--hell, she started doing this way before conniver-vention. It is quite likely that Trump may pivot more to her left now that the Repubs have anointed him. In this case, some fears of him may be made less odious. Still, how the hell did the USA get into such a fucked up election? Rhetorical question really. It's the corruption, stupid.
Agreed
WE are in a totally corrupt system. Political, economic, legal.
It's also the electorate
So easily manipulated.
That's absurd. No way.
That shows a really severe misunderstanding of the class forces at work here, as well as a complete lack of understanding of the point we are at in trying to overthrow this oligarchic system. I don't have the time to go into this in detail, but very briefly Trump is absolutely part of the feudalist faction of the .01%, as opposed to Clinton's "managed consent" faction. Forget anything that comes out of Trump's mouth, because he's clearly demonstrated over the years that it's all just verbal diarrhea anyway, designed to confuse and disarm. Instead pay attention to how he has behaved and run his businesses, how he has dealt with people who have worked for him, how he systematically preys on and plunders others, and how that translates to the society at large. Maybe more on that stuff later if I can find time. Just remember: this is real life, not some stupid movie.
Tell me how the Clintons are good?
Real life.
Agree. Howevah ... at this point what difference will it make?
As said famously by HRC.
In other words, why, in the aftermath of the corruption at the DNC, why should any of us think our votes matter at all? The system is rigged, as said famously by DT. Whoever really decides will let the rest of us know in a few months, and afterwards nothing will change. Again.
~annominous
Please explain to me your statement
So you can, with evident sincerity claim that Clintons are not part of the .01%? How can you believe a single word emanating from Medusa's mouth? Everything she says is absolute bullshit. "Management consent", what a damn euphemism that is for continued and probably increased authoritarianism. No, I don't believe Trump--but seriously, how can any person knowledgable about Medusa's amorality pretend that she is any other than a lying sack of shit?
Edit: this comment is a reply to Tak
All I can say is try reading it again
Somehow you managed to garble just about everything...
Tread lightly.
C99% is not GOS.
Tak: Bullshit and cowpats are *both* shit
It's just that "cowpats" is a nicey-nice euphemism for shit.
Trump is of the .01%. The Clintons serve the .01%. Not a lot of difference between them except that Trump is clearly the better strategist (or has better advisors).
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Well if MI is close, Trump it is. Otherwise Jill
The Clintons and The DNC declared war on us, and we need to do everything we can to make sure they lose.
A group from Reddit and a group of Trump voters joined forces to go rhrough and catalog the wiki leaks. if people from both sides are joining up, Clinton is dead .
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I am in MI also.
It should be interesting. In the primaries:
Democrats got 1,172,017 votes
Republicans got 1,259,093 votes
And that is with a decidedly horrible, terrible, miserable Republican governor.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
As I said on KFS...
"I am sincerely trying to figure out whether Trump is really worse than Clinton. Yes, Trump is frequently overtly outrageous, but when I consider the fact that she picked an anti-abortion, pro-TPP, Wall Street apologist for her VP, I really don't know if she is truly any less disgusting and maybe she's worse- DOMA, DADT, mass incarceration of African Amercans, "brought to heel", etc.- that's some really bad shit, I mean really, really, bad. Add in the warmongering, email server, the fraudulent primary, is this woman better than Trump, in any way?"
"One thing I am sure of- if Clinton becomes President, it is the end of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, and that is worse than Trump."
The progressive wing of former Dems have been set free!
Turn it around, sounds better and more forward.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Only if they seize their freedom and fly away
rather than sitting in darkness in a jail cell with an open door, like the hapless cast of Sartre's No Exit. Right now I'm not too sure they remember how to fly.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Progressive wing
was clipped when the DNC fucked Bernie supporters. Sad.
No.
Hillary?
No.
Either would be complete disrespect for my vote.
Disrespect yours if you're that self-loathing, but don't invite me to that personal hell.
"If I sit silently, I have sinned." - Mossadegh
Self-loathing
I think that's a good word for it. We were being marginalized even before Ronald Reagan won. What I see right now is that the oligarchs control both parties and have no intention of letting the plebs have anything. By voting the lesser of two evils or "strategic" voting we have helped the process. Now is not the time for half measures. We either vote for decency and honesty or we vote ourselves inside the barbed wire. A plague on both of their houses.
-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962
Hey
My vote is for change.
Like the status quo?
Mr. Trump is a narcissistic spoiled brat.
I shall cast a vote neither for him nor for Secretary Clinton.
At least as far as I know - what actually happens to the vote once I have cast it is another matter entirely.
Our own talk is forcing us into a dialectic. When all one sees are two choices, it is time to take a deep breath, tune out the noise from outside, turn off the noise in one's head, and think.
Let us consider the following two propositions.
Mr. Trump shall be an unmitigated disaster for all habitation.
That Secretary Clinton will also be an unmitigated disaster for all habitation alters nothing about the semantics of the first statement, whether or not one agrees with either statement.
We ought to stop wasting our time with these clown candidates, and find a way to work together out of trust and necessity to repair the relationships with one another and to implement solutions to actual problems.
Peace and love be with you, reader.
One disagrees
Hillary is the status quo.
Trump is not.