Lines of Evidence

Disclaimer: I am not a statistician; my background is in functional analysis, which includes probability, but I have not been in the field for many years. I am currently working on fast implementations of some classical statistical measures, but I'm nothing like an expert. My goal here is educational.

Caveat: I have not read Fries'dat et al. because I'm on vacation, but I may get a chance to look at it on Friday.

Summary: The latest paper on election fraud takes a different approach and comes to the same conclusion. This second line of evidence greatly strengthens the scientific argument.

Take a look at this pair of pictures. The difference is that the top Yoda is a puppet, and the bottom Yoda is CGI. Notice how the bottom Yoda seems "flat" or even "fake". The reason is that the Puppet Yoda is "noisier". Real things are noisy because reality is noisy: objects have dirt, history, and quantum randomness. That is how we can tell that they are real.

This latest paper on Democratic election fraud is different from previous work because it exploits this property of reality to detect fraud. Previous work relied on exit poll discrepancies, but that might be vulnerable to unknown biases (e.g. Clinton voters don't like being exit polled).

Fortunately, statisticians have developed techniques for detecting fraud even when there is no access to voters for exit polling. For example, a few years back they were able to prove fraud in a Iranian election by looking at the voter counts in precincts and showing that one particular decimal fraction was too common (I.e. There were to many 90.0 to 10.0 results). In other words, the data was not noisy enough.

It seems that the data from a number of polling machines is similarly too perfect. Instead of ratios, it sounds like there is not enough variation in the numbers. Like Yoda, the data is too smooth.

The strength of a scientific argument is greatly improved when you have more than one line of reasoning. This is why climate change deniers are walking into a buzz saw when they try to deny one line of evidence: there are so many that you have to deny them all: sea level rise, carbon isotope ratios, stratospheric temperature changes and so on. The fact that there is a second independent line of reasoning makes the hypothesis much more likely.

I'm heartened that the statistical community is taking such an interest in this issue. It's only been a few weeks since the first work by some graduates students provided the first line of evidence and now we have two. Sadly, as the history of climate denial shows, when powerful interests want to obstruct scientific truth, they too often succeed and can keep it up for decades. Eventually the truth will out, but we only have a week.

Edit: Replace Sanders with Clinton in the example.

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sojourns's picture

Where is Hermes Conrad when you need him?

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

kharma's picture

Thanks for sharing. Somehow we have to figure out how to beat this false information tactic that they use. I think social media is making a difference in popping the bubble of deception.

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There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

martianexpatriate's picture

Yoda and puppet's versus models used in CGI is very true. Very often, one of the steps that has to be taken eventually in CGI is to add elements which are literally randomized, including distortion and lens flare, in order to make something look more realistic. Computer models are usually too perfect, in a sense. It isn't that they fail to pick up real variables, its that they don't pick up on distortion that happens within the eye itself.

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PriceRip's picture

          This is at the heart of everything I do professionally:

Real things are noisy because reality is noisy: objects have dirt, history, and quantum randomness. That is how we can tell that they are real.

          But, given my experiences I am not so sure I share this sentiment:

I'm heartened that the statistical community is taking such an interest in this issue.

          A real problem will be to "sell it" to the right people. If this just devolves into "my statistician disagrees with your statistician", then this will be just like the global climate change "debate".
          Forgive me, I am sometimes a cynic. Being described, by a lawyer at an official hearing, as being incompetent tends to harden ones soul.

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Hawkfish's picture

That is basically what the climate deniers did with those two statisticians whose names I'm too lazy to look up right now. Eventually they were marginalized but it did a lot of damage.

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We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

PriceRip's picture

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featheredsprite's picture

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

martianexpatriate's picture

Gish Gallop in action. When your dealing with an opponent that has lots of money, its very easy for them to simply fund a study that seems to oppose anything you come up. They've been doing that to maintain confusion on the climate for many decades now, and still are.

I hope that doesn't happen with this, but it might.

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Are these statistics/statisticians available to the group that is suing California for election tampering? Sorry I don't recall the name of the group - maybe someone can help me here - but last I heard they had delayed filing because they were waiting for additional evidence out of the CA election.

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PriceRip's picture

        Logical syllogisms, and structures known as inductive logical form the foundation of your well written article. Be aware of the nature of the legal profession that provides no small part of the foundation of politics. Lawyers are trained to construct arguments and counter arguments grounded in what can be best discribed as classical logic without recourse to reality. The point is: Whatever may be true to reality be damned, if you can construct a solid acceptable argument you may still get a legal decision in your favor.
        The interface between the physical sciences and the legal sphere is not smooth and not particularly friendly. This is also true of our professional interactions with politicians.The rules of evidence in a courtroom are somewhat incompatible with those in the laboratory. Most politicians and lawyers do not understand how experimental and theoretical evidence taken together lead to conclusions. Worse they gleefully exploit the tentative nature of scientific conclusions to debase arguments they deem inconvenient truths. On the other side lawyers like to have expert witnesses use the vacuous phrase, "to within reasonable scientific certainty" to influence jurors and judges.
          In short, using scientific evidence and argument in the public sphere is a nuisanced affair fraught with danger.

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Hawkfish's picture

Thanks for the observation. I'm well aware of the problem; my point was more to add some intellectual rigor entre nous as it were. But everyone should take PriceRip's words to heart: scientific evidence is not always legal evidence and vice versa.

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We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

PriceRip's picture

my point was more to add some intellectual rigor entre nous as it were.

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ZimInSeattle's picture

First was the exit polling discrepancy, then the same study was done using pre-election polling data, and now this random noise study. Trump, Stein, Gary Johnson and all the rest have no chance of becoming president because the Clinton Crime Family has control of the election apparatus. This was made abundantly clear during the primary. I'm very thankful to Bernie for exposing the rot that is at the core of our so-called democracy. It all leads to my sig line.

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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020

Hawkfish's picture

They claim two prior lines,so this makes three.

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We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

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Beware the bullshit factories.

Roy Blakeley's picture

If the corporate media allow a genuine debate on this subject, people will begin to consider the possibility that large scale election fraud can occur. They will begin to ask why we don't have a secure system and wonder if election results for years have been phony. Credible allegations of election fraud would start to be taken seriously and at least investigated. The strategy of the corporate media is to ignore election fraud and, when it can't be ignored, to dismiss those who admit the possibility of election fraud as crazy conspiracy theorists. If corporate journalists were real journalists, and were not simply shills for the corporations that pay them, they would ask serious questions about election fraud. After all if election fraud is alleged but does not exist a thorough investigation would demonstrate that it does not exist and our faith in our democracy would be strengthened. If I had won an election fair and square, I would welcome a fair and thorough investigation.

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That would bring them in higher ratings than the bullshit with an agenda that they currently bombard us with? Why do the right thing when they could do the wrong thing?

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Beware the bullshit factories.

Ray Pensador's picture

Thanks for taking the time to research this issue. Touching on some comments about the use of statistics and "my statistician vs. your statistician" a long-time argument I've been making is that the problem we face when it comes to the spread of misinformation and propaganda is that on the side of the "corporate state" or oligarchy, "they" are extremely organized, focused, and committed to the spread of pro-establishment propaganda; and they have vast resources to spread it around, 24/7.

When it comes to propaganda, what the corporate state does has a name: Agnotology. "Agnotology is the study of wilful acts to spread confusion and deceit..." It is a term coined by Stanford University science historian Robert Proctor.

IMHO, the issue is no much the need to get truthful information into the hand of "the right people," although I acknowledge that that is important, the issue is that people of goodwill need to understand that what we are facing is a propaganda war and that the antidote to propaganda is counter-propaganda. That implies the use of propaganda techniques (in a mechanistic manner) in the name of social justice, peace, justice.

Having had this conversation with activists for many years now I fully understand that many find this idea of engaging in counter-propaganda distasteful. But I think it is something that deserves to be discussed, considered, and thought about.

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www.RayPensador.com
When you boil it all down, the number one step you can take to get out from under the fascist boot of the oligarchy is to stop subjecting yourself to the the U.S. corporate news media. It is a powerful psyops weapon.

In general I think most people, but certainly not most readers of this site, trust the MSM without too much question. Somehow there needs to be continued public discrediting. Simple arguments that are easily digested that show the public that the MSM is not trustworthy. But how to disseminate that information to people who don't use the internet or just barely?

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It's true right now like it was back then. The old devils are at it again. When I say devil you know who I mean these animals in the dark malicious politicians with nefarious schemes charlatans and crooked cops. - 'Old Devils' William Elliot Whitmore

Ray Pensador's picture

I've come up with some ideas and suggestions: (1) Gather people together who have come to an (accurate) understanding of the true nature of the system; (2) Build camaraderie, solidarity, and strategic-thinking within this group (groups) in environments that are free from the effects of infiltration and disruption tactics (a very challenging goal, I admit); (3) Once the group is strong and organized, develop strategies and tactics (including counter-propaganda campaigns) meant to expose and discredit the system, and offer alternative solutions.

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www.RayPensador.com
When you boil it all down, the number one step you can take to get out from under the fascist boot of the oligarchy is to stop subjecting yourself to the the U.S. corporate news media. It is a powerful psyops weapon.

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Roy Blakeley's picture

Concerning one comment in the post, if Sanders voters did not like to be exit polled, they would be under represented in election polls and exit polls would give a lower Bernie vote than the official, allegedly counted, vote. The bias that would lead to the observed results (% of Bernie voters higher in the exit polls than in the official, allegedly counted, vote) would be if Clinton supporters avoided exit polls or Bernie voters actively sought them out.

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Hawkfish's picture

I was in a hurry and just made something up that was vaguely plausible, but yes I got the direction backwards. My apologies.

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We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

I remember after the 2000 election some stats people looked electronic based voting machines and came to the conclusion that they were rigged and even reducing voter counts for Dems in heavily Democratic party areas. I remember no matter what they said and how loud they said it, or others who supported them, the issue was ignored, and strangely from what I can tell, ignored by Democrats. Maybe Dem leadership had some vested interest in not reforming, or maybe they were blinded by conveniently blaming Nader, and overlooked the cheating that was going on. I had the impression that in post 2008 election, suddenly the Dems woke up to all the shenanigans the republicans had put in place since 2000.

But Dems cheating Dems should come as no surprise. This is what created and maintained machine-dominated cities. In these areas, the primaries will determine the winner and all the money and graft that goes along with it--you betcha there was cheating. The stakes were high and certainly when you think about it, billions and billions and billions were riding on a Clinton victory. Imagine if Bernie appointed hard nosed regulators and prosecutors, the money that would be lost to the banksters and financial fraudsters. And that would just a start--you would have policy changes that profoundly effects money, big money. For example, no support for private charter schools. How much that alone would mean for money not going into private hands? Or not supporting private prisons.

For Sanders supporters what was at stake was better health, college, better wages, etc. For Clinton what was at stake was the billions feeding the elites and oligarchs from government corporate welfare. When Bernie's campaign took off, we could see in the press literally the Dem establishment thinking out loud how to stop Bernie if the first barriers didn't work--like giving the nomination to Biden somehow. Of course cheating happened. And of course, Bernie was going to lose no matter what--as much as we hoped otherwise. At least for right now.

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they would not have had the apparatus in place to ensure the corporate status quo.

I remember being told at GOS, back during the Bush v Kerry election that we needed to stop talking about election fraud and black box machines.

At the same time there was a radio personality who insisted that if enough of us vote, then the election can't be stolen. The solution as far as both GOS and the radio personality was to make sure the election wasn't even close.

According to this theory, that is how Obama won in 2008. Unfortunately, that is also how they were able to make sure that the root of the problem was not solved.

By not solving the actual problem (which I believe can only be corrected with paper ballots throughout the country), both the Republicans and the Democrats can do the bidding of their corporate masters and be assured that a pro-corporate candidate always wins. It doesn't matter what their party is as long as they will work for the corporations.

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Yaldabaoth, Saklas I'm calling you. Samael. You're not alone. I said, you're not alone, in your darkness. You're not alone, baby. You're not alone. "Original Sinsuality" Tori Amos

In the end you are probably right--it doesn't serve the interests of either Dems or gopers to fix voting. Without the fixing, etc, Bernie would have beaten Hillary.

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[deleted]

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CambridgePulsar1919's picture

Convinced me.
Only counted actual registered Dems. No Indies or late registrants trying to vote when they shouldn't/couldn't.

And the machine vote versus the hand count results show $$Hillary gained with the machine counts while Bernie lost with the machine counts.
I suspect that it's not the machines that caused that, but DNC operatives purging Bernie supporters and forcing them to use other voting methods, if they were allowed/bothered to vote at all, after being told they 'weren't on the list'. VerifiedRegisteredDemsForBernieCountedDifferentlyThanHillaryVotersGraph.GIF

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Hawkfish's picture

My main concern is that it is not written in a manner that invites peer review - it is more a formal journalism piece. Still, every time I thought of an objection they addressed it, which is the mark of good research.

The most interesting part for me was the evidence that there are multiple actors involved. In other words, this is so easy to do that more than one group may be doing it and there is no way to prove who was doing what. It's so hopeless that I am no longer sure it was the DNC! The part where one reseach group hacked into a voting machine and as they were leaving they noticed some Russians attacking the same machine's four character password was simply jaw dropping.

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We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

I've been of the same mind for a few years, but this primary robbery has been the final straw for me. The corporate media are nothing more than fascist propaganda organs. They have been colonizing the internet with alarming speed, and consistently work to tighten the grip of the corporations.

Unfortunately, anything discussed about how to fight them will be spied upon, and they will know about anything we plan in advance. I cringe every time I hear anyone to Left of center talking about spreading things over social media. All the popular, "free" social media are designed to harvest information from the get-go. So we must learn to conceal our planning as well as the corporations do. The enormous information disparity between these giant corporations and ourselves keeps us from effective counter-propaganda, all too often. We can never surprise any of the major actors.

The other thing that stops us is ineffective rhetoric. The MSM machines are way ahead of us on that. Generalizing here; we on the Left concern ourselves with logic and scientific reality, and they experience no such restraints. They are in the business of manufacturing reality to suit their sponsors. To some extent, this has always been true. Witness the "yellow press" that lead us into the Spanish-American War. Now that they have raised the warship "Maine", they have found that it exploded due to being an antique POS, with insufficient flash-tighting to prevent a coal-gas explosion, and NOT because of "Spanish saboteurs". The press of that time, however, took that sabotage story and ran with it, and presto! War.

I am not a scientist, but was raised with the goal of making me one. I went through public schools back when they actually taught science, and it was generally respected. I still respect it, as being the single greatest driver ever towards improving the human condition, and for ascertaining the true nature of reality. That being said, most people could give a shit. Most people form opinions first, and then cast about for facts OR lies which support their opinions. We tend to lead with facts, and assume that people will draw the obvious correlations. This is why the MSM keep kicking our asses up between our shoulder-blades. They begin by trying to form our opinions FOR us, and then parcel out carefully chosen facts to support those opinions.

That is not the way I prefer to work, but if we don't start learning, they win. So, yes I agree that we need a plan, but we also need to learn enough about computer security that whatever we plan is not an open book to TPTB. May I suggest starting up an "encrypted pen-pals" group? I have been thinking for a while that this is overdue. Encryption is not particularly user-friendly, but if others can figure it out, so should we be able to. Like any other activity, actually doing it should improve our abilities. -And speaking of counter-propaganda, it would effectively start fighting the common view that "They spy on everything we do, and we can't stop it." Empowering people to protect their right to privacy would be a useful first exercise to a greater goal of counter-propaganda.

OTOH, Having every single discussion and planning session happen in the public commons while "Blind Pew" sits in the corner and siphons it all up, is self-defeating, to say the least. I know a few things I could share about securing ourselves, and we could learn as we go, I expect. I know at least a few other regular posters that have expressed interest in this in the past; maybe they would be up for this, as well.

Any thoughts on this? R.S.V.P.

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"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes