Many think that if Hillary is Indicted for Perjury she will not be charged by the FBI or DOJ and they may be right. But...

and this is a big but and that is that I don't think the Senate and House Republicans will ONLY choose to refer it to the FBI and then the DOJ. (we know what the likely outcome of that based on the last bogus moves they pulled.

I am just speculating here, but what I would do, and what I think Congressional Republicans will do is invoke a charge of "Contempt of Congress." in addition or as a substitution.

So let's take a quick look at Contempt of Congress (Not the contempt that we hold for them, but the legal one).

Contempt of Congress is the act of obstructing the work of the United States Congress or one of its committees. Historically, the bribery of a senator or representative was considered contempt of Congress. In modern times, contempt of Congress has generally applied to the refusal to comply with a subpoena issued by a Congressional committee or subcommittee—usually seeking to compel either testimony or the production of documents.

By doing so, this would allow Congress to significantly reduce the DOJ and FBI's role in the equation by directly compelling the U.S. Attorney into impaneling a Grand Jury.

Following a contempt citation, the presiding officer of the chamber is instructed to refer the matter to the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia;[10] according to the law it is the "duty" of the U.S. Attorney to refer the matter to a grand jury for action.

Notice the "Duty" in there? It does not appear to leave them the discretion to decide not to if I am reading this properly.

What is also interesting, particularly from an optics perspective, is that they could actually ARREST Clinton and detain her for whatever punishment the chamber may decide is warranted! Even if she managed to shrug this one off as well with her Teflon Pantsuit, the public perception would absolutely decimate what little favorable ratings she retains.

Under this process, the procedure for holding a person in contempt involves only the chamber concerned. Following a contempt citation, the person cited is arrested by the Sergeant-at-Arms for the House or Senate, brought to the floor of the chamber, held to answer charges by the presiding officer, and then subjected to punishment as the chamber may dictate (usually imprisonment for punishment reasons, imprisonment for coercive effect, or release from the contempt citation).

This isn't some obscure old law that they someone like Comey could just blow off as not being practiced, this is a method that has been repeatedly used by congress over the years (Including once with Janet Reno, Who was it that appointed her again?)

The most directly relevant case that I can find took place back in 1983, the House of Representatives held Rita Lavelle, Administrator for the EPA in Contempt of Congress for lying under oath. The Attorney General impaneled a Grand Jury as was required, and Rita Lavelle was convicted and sentenced to serve 6 months in jail (of which she did 3) as well as 5 years probation and a $10,000 fine. As these two cases are quite similar it wouldn't be unjustified for them to enact the same sanction against Clinton, if not even a stronger one as her offense was much greater than Lavelle's from what I recall so there is indeed ample precedent here, at least in my non-attorney judgement.

I would be surprised if Gowdy doesn't have this option rolling around in his mind.

That being said, I find it doubtful that the Republicans will engage in such an action before she is the Nominee, it would be much better for them strategically to do so after the Democrats have completed their convention as then they would be able to campaign against a deeply wounded candidate and Party unless Hillary was to withdraw and we all know her ego and hubristic nature would preclude such an act.

That is, unless they think they would stand a better chance against Sanders, and while they might be ignorant assholes, they are not fools, and it would indeed take a fool to think that ANY republican would fare better against Sanders than Clinton.

IANAL and if we have any here that could chime in I would love to hear their perspectives on this because it is quite possible I am missing something due to not having any practical experience in this area, my suppositions are based only on what I have been able to glean via my tendency to compulsively research any topic that grips my attention. Smile

All I can say is you may want to stock up on 50 pound sacks of popcorn and a pallet of your beverage of choice because these next few months are gonna be a real shit show. Smile

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They would appoint an Independent Prosecutor. It would kill her politically and the party would have to ask her to step aside. You have an FBI director saying you were careless with classified documents and thereby national security. You add a special prosecutor investigating perjury charges to poll numbers indicating 56% indicating they do not trust her and you have the receipe for disaster.

I have never been a GOP supporter or agreed with them in the past. In this case they are performing their constitutional responsibility and I have to support them in that regard.

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HRC's rating could go up.

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chuck utzman

TULSI 2020

Alphalop's picture

look.

I try to take in information from as many sources as possible, but if we go on prior experience "Clinton Fatigue" is a very real factor that has been documented in prior elections.

The key difference between Clinton and Bernie is the more people get to know Clinton, the less they like her.

Trump on the other hand seems to be impervious to all attacks at this point. He is like some weird creature where the more damage you inflict the stronger it gets. It is quite an odd phenomenon.

Ultimately though I think it boils down to Establishment vs Non-establishment, and this is by any definition an anti-establishment cycle and if there has ever been a better poster child for the establishment than Hillary Clinton I have yet to see it.

I don't think Clinton will lose because they Love Trump or Hate Clinton (While that is indeed a factor for many) I feel the choice in many voters minds is, "more of the same that has gotten me nowhere or take a chance on something completely different."

If Clinton loses it won't necessarily be just because of a rejection of Clinton, I think it will be because of a rejection of the status quo.

Many of the Trump supporters I know don't particularly even like him, they just hate the direction the country has been going and don't want anything to do with Mainstream candidates. I hear just as many, "Hold your nose and support Trump" speeches coming from the Right as I did for Clinton coming from the left.

Sucks that we have to have the "Giant Douche Vs Turd Sandwich debate" for our highest national office.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0BuPgrBwHU]

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

was pure snark.

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chuck utzman

TULSI 2020

Alphalop's picture

as much into account as I can, especially opinions that are counter to my own as I feel that is the best way to truly get a broad grasp on the situation, if it happens to come from one of my fellow C99P peeps even more so. Smile

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

I can explain some of the "imperviousness" and why he is judged as more truthful than Hillary.

Here in red Alabama, one of the things people really hate is the Pc culture. Yes, it's being drummed up by fox, but they eat it up. "We can't say merry Xmas, rant rant, rant". Etc

Trump is the antithesis of pc. Equals honest in their minds. Hillary might as well be the poster child for pc. Then add her lawyerly parsing....

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featheredsprite's picture

What you see is what you get. And that is kind of rare among political candidates.

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

Haikukitty's picture

Everything he says sounds like BS to me. I feel like he doesn't believe a single word of any of it.

I heard him going on about protecting our 2nd amendment rights and it sounded like such obvious pandering. Do you really believe The Donald wants every peon well-armed? And saying Hillary wants to abolish the 2nd Amendment - even I know that's BS, she wants many things, but to really act against the might of the NRA corp isn't one of them.

When I actually hear him speak, vs. reading random tweets or articles - my bullshit meter goes haywire, just like with Hillary.

But maybe I just can't stand his buffoonery - who knows?

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I think I can point you at a person or two on this site that shares the PC sentiment to some degree. No one can walk away from top and not have scars from the PC police at that blog.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Alphalop's picture

of the left has been one of the biggest hurdles to getting our otherwise rational brothers and sisters on the right from crossing over.

Many of my republican friends admit to sharing a lot of progressive beliefs, they just don't want to be part of any group where they have to worry about the possibility of anything they say being interpreted as offensive regardless of the intent behind their statements.

And as you say, after my time at TOP I now kinda get it more than I ever did before.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

I saw it, commented numerous times with facts, and got lots of likes. The Hillbots of course were out in force with lies, innuendo, and the Trump "scary fascist" meme, but were losing by leaps and bounds. Haven't been there in a while and now I remember why.

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will make her life miserable without destroying her. Things worked out quite well for them under Bill, most of the righties understand that.

I think those who are truly committed to the fringe would like Clinton destroyed. But not sure they are in the majority or even large minority.

But who knows? Time will tell.

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sojourns's picture

would ask her to step down.

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

He'll ask Hillary to step aside about as much as he asked Debbie Wasserman-Schultz to step aside when it was clear she was a drag on Party prospects.

The man is a wimp.

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

sojourns's picture

though, at this point in his presidency, telling Schultz-- as shitty as she is -- is a bit beneath the mantle of the office, particularly as Schultz isn't facing charges -- though she should be --

I do agree though. Obama has become a wuss.

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Alphalop's picture

about 6 months into his first term.

I really felt like a rube for caucusing for him in Nevada and made my last LEV strategic action for his 2nd term at which point I swore, "Never Again."

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

elenacarlena's picture

indictment is a formal charge of a crime. There's no need for an FBI investigation at that point, the determination that a crime has been committed has already been made. It's time to take it to court. I don't see why Congress couldn't hire their own lawyer if they wanted to, rather than use one at Obama's DOJ.

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Roger Fox's picture

After January 20th, the House Judiciary Committee. Prior to January 20th any old prosecutor will do. But after the Dem convention as you noted.

As the House referred it to the DOJ, can Loretta meet with Bill on the tarmac again? SO as to unofficially recuse herself. Again?

Stay tuned for the next episode.

Those parts of the Ethics in Government Act relating to independent counsels regularly had five year “sunset” provisions, and were eventually allowed by Congress to expire after June 30, 1999.
https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43112.pdf

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FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

An indictment is the impaneling of a grand jury to try a person because there is enough evidence that person has comitted a serious crime.

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sojourns's picture

can do that and have Grandma Yuppie literally arrested by the Sergeant at Arms -- no DOJ necessary.

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Alphalop's picture

That was one of the key points in the Essay.

They can, and most likely will do so shortly AFTER she is selected as the Democratic nominee.

I hope the SD's are being made aware of this if they already are not.

It would really give any of them that may be up for re-election reason to pause, as if they do vote for her and she loses I can see the primary ads their opponents would run already.

"My opponent didn't even have the judgement to select a candidate that could beat Trump and that is why X and Y have happened. Don't give my opponent the opportunity to make more disastrous decisions such as this..." Etc....

With the poll numbers, the massive talk of #Demexit and Jills donations and supporter numbers spiking I would say they are probably shitting themselves if they can manage to unclench their sphincters long enough to do so. Smile

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

sojourns's picture

Isn't that a song?

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Alphalop's picture

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

. . .The Democratic party is NOT going to turn to Bernie if Hillary drops out. There is a reason we are seeing so much more of Joe Biden right now. It is the insurance policy the Dems are taking out against the loss of Hillary as their candidate.

There was no need for both Obama and Biden to go to the Dallas Memorial Service, except to demonstrate to We the People that there will be another option for an orderly transfer of Democratic power should Hillary founder. Biden is being slowly eased into position to assume the mantle should that become necessary.

There is precedent for this from 1968. Hubert Humphrey -a man who might well have been a good choice for President had he not been Johnson's VP- was selected by the Convention despite not having actually run in any of the primaries. Imagine if this was going on now! We'd be all over the appearance of corruption in this action.

It will be thus with Biden if Hillary is indicted or otherwise neutralized by the GOP Congress enabled by Obama's incompetence during his first two years.

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

Alphalop's picture

While not as ideal as a Sanders candidacy it would most likely cement the complete fragmentation of the Democratic Party which is in line with my current goals.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

tapu dali's picture

political parties in the USA ranging from right to left with centrists on both sides.

Now in your current system of electoral college, etc. that would create difficulties, but in the long run might lead to a system that had elements of both (small-r) republican and Parliamentary styles.

With four parties, constitutional amendments would become necessary to reform the unworkable system devised by the Founders at the the height of the Enlightenment. One aspect of which was that only wealthy men of means could vote, whence the belief that "sensible men will come to sensible solutions".

The current impasse proves that not all "men" are always sensible.

The constitution is out-of-date and needs to be heavily red-inked.

IMVHO.

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

There's a reason why ranked voting is so rare when so necessary for representational voting results. If the two-party trade-off fails and all voting choices are ranked and accurately counted, more parties must be bought even as more as-yet-corrupted parties come into being - and have an actual chance of getting in and enacting laws against buying public policy and political officials/parties.

No more either/or claims that nobody dares vote for any non-corporate-controlled 3rd party lest it lets the greater evil in, rather than the claimed lesser evil.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

MsGrin's picture

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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

Alphalop's picture

What I was saying is that if they did choose Biden over Bernie it would be the final crack in the party and it would completely fragment at that point I suspect.

The death of the DNC can't come soon enough for me.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

The Democratic party is NOT going to turn to Bernie if Hillary drops out.

it could begin the process of taking down the Clinton machine and its influence on the party. do you really think the Democratic party wouldn't want to be relieved of all the threats the Clintons are holding over their heads? they went along to get along and now it's ruined the party.

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Alphalop's picture

I am sure there are a LOT of SD's and other political figures whom's "Support" of Clinton is solely due to being under duress to do so.

The problem with their method of recruiting allies is that it gives them EVERY incentive to abandon you to the wolves the minute they have the slightest political cover to enable it.

She may have her enemies list, but I bet there are a lot of people who have them too and the top name is likely "Clinton", written in so hard that the paper is torn in places....

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

tapu dali's picture

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

Rather than nominate Bernie, who ran and actually won, they've been threatening to trample over voter's heads and rights to appoint Biden - with whom Wall St and others apparently would be just as happy as with Clinton or Jeb Bush - as the to-be-coronated Dem Presidential candidate for some time now. I would normally never advocate riots, but it might come down to that, and should, if all else fails in preventing yet another corporate/billionaire-interest-appointed President while dropping any faint pretense of actual democracy. But all else must be tried first, including the notification that The People will not stand for any more of this. Enough is enough! It's long past enough!

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

There is precedent for this from 1968. Hubert Humphrey -a man who might well have been a good choice for President had he not been Johnson's VP- was selected by the Convention despite not having actually run in any of the primaries.

if they dropped Clinton for Biden (or some other nominee) i could envision Clinton going full Carrie on the convention center.

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Alphalop's picture

Yet somehow I can also see her head spinning like a sprinkler shooting out pea soup.

New movie idea, "The Democratic Exorcism" Wink

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

TheOtherMaven's picture

Hatchet and all. Biggrin

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

elenacarlena's picture

Sanders, I'm done with the party. After all that work and money spent running and speechifying, he has earned the nom, no one else. If they want Trump to win, nominate someone else. I dare them. I'll make plans to move to Canada.

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MsGrin's picture

I would be LIVID.

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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

elenacarlena's picture

Hopefully they understand that.

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Meteor Man's picture

Pretty thorough:

5 Reasons The Comey Hearing Was The Worst Education In Criminal Justice The American Public Has Ever Had

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_577ee999e4b05b4c02fbdcd5

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"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

tapu dali's picture

IOW, HRC is "too important to prosecute".

TITP ~ TBTF.

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

TheJerry's picture

They became too important to prosecute. It's in the constitution, somewhere...sure I saw it there...why else would we never prosecute the wealthy?

Remember, during the impeachment, the Clintons had not yet amassed sufficient wealth to avoid prosecution.

But thanks to the CGSF (Clinton Global Slush Fund) that has been rectified.

They have now reached Double Platinum Affluenza.

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____________________________________________________________________________
"I'm not interested in preserving the status quo; I want to overthrow it. "
-Niccolo Machiavelli

"Sorry Hillary"
-TheJerry

Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

with the idea that they'd just gridlock everything for a couple more years and shoot for a super majority in both the House and Senate. On the other hand, they could try manipulating things so they have a more preferable candidate to run against Clinton. Who knows what those crazy fellas may try to do?

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On the rub sibe of the isle, Trump has so many delegates that he will win with multiple hundreds of delegates to spare, He will win on the first vote.

Its not like the democrat convention, where neither will win on the first vote, Hillary doesn't have enough delegates. She will win on the second vote however.

And thus we all get to look forward to President Trump... goodie.... billary won't be able to win the general, they are to heavily disliked by pretty much everyone.

But maybe we can get a viable third party out of all of this, or finely clean out the dem party(granted seems unlikely).

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