Maybe we are overreacting to the endorsement.
I can do the math and I can analyze some of the political calculations in this campaign. It doesn't look good for us. However, I am not going to give up until Bernie gives up explicitly. I received an email from a friend today that had some information in it that I would like to share. Basically it says that Bernie is still in the race even if he has endorsed Clinton. He endorsed her but he did not concede. This difference is crucial.
According to Section VI, paragraphs g and m, of the DNC Delegate Selection Materials, a candidate with an active campaign is not allowed to deny an endorsement of another campaign. Since Bernie is a candidate and a Super Delegate, he is obligated to support only Democratic candidates; also, if he had withheld an endorsement of the presumptive DNC nominee or endorsed a third-party candidate (Stein), he would lose his Delegate/Super Delegate status as well as forfeit his pledged delegates.
It seems Bernie had to endorse. There is a lengthy (about 36 minutes) You Tube video at https://youtu.be/MaWU81Yn2ec which has the relevant point about five minutes into it.
You can find a copy of the DNC Delegate Selection Materials at https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8c7Y7RNspgDMTc5ZWIyNWMtZmM2Zi00...
Section VI starts at page 131.
I’m neither a politician nor a lawyer, but the young man who makes these points in the video seems knowledgeable. As my friend pointed out in the email, Bernie can’t refuse to endorse nor can he just say that he was forced to endorse because that would imply that he wasn’t acting in good faith and wasn’t a good Democrat as required by paragraphs b and g of Section VI.
Be patient and wait for Bernie to make his case at the Convention. By endorsing Hillary, Bernie is preserving his options and buying time. Why would he have spent all the money for permits and still ask for help to get his delegates to the convention if he was throwing in the towel? I have poured milk on my ulcer by simply reregistering as a Green again and will wait to see how it all plays out. If Bernie is the nominee, I vote for him and the down ballot candidates that meet our criteria (no matter which party). I admit that I have little hope for Bernie's nomination, but I can vote for Jill Stein and the same down ballot people if he doesn't get it.
The important point to note is that he had to endorse or lose everything before the convention.
Comments
But Clinton must also be a Superdelegate so why isn't she
forced to endorse Sanders, since he has an active campaign. It must be a quid pro quo, right?
or am I missing something. I've heard this but it makes absolutely NO SENSE. so please, if somebody could help me out here...
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
I wondered that too
but I guess she is the "presumptive nominee" since she stole all those votes so rules are rules, heh.
It doesn't seem to matter who the presumptive nominee is
because near as I can tell, that's not spelled out in the rules. Thus, by default, it likely becomes "If We Say So". And yes, they can do that because DNC rules. Hillary Clinton "is" in the lead, even though she stole most of her votes in goddamn broad daylight. Still, the DNC is in charge of this show and so it was pointed out by the enforcement arm of this years DNC that he say it or risk everything. And here we all are.
And Bernie will still be at the convention. So if one is being realistic in managing their expectations, while it was sad to hear, the man did not really let anybody down. That's what set me off. It was a WORD. Nobody's gonna listen to him on that anyway! So it's meaningless. It's like a friend of mine said, "if we know the words in the platform are bullshit that she'll never honor, then why would we be upset about ONE word in a speech from him, that we all should have a pretty damn good idea that he doesn't even really mean anyway?"
Thank you, so very much, for this post. I wanted to write this yesterday but I was way too angry. I don't think all of the hand-wringing we've been witnessing since Tuesday here is quite sincere and I let that get the better of me. I am sorry again for being such an asshole here, yesterday, but man--the about-face here by so many, based on another stage-managed Hillary Show, made me livid.
OMFG, seriously, we have to stop doing that. Team Clinton is cackling with glee at the thought of us dividing. Let's not do what they want us to do.
Yes quid pro quo
Bernie is in Clinton orbit now, he will get as much stuff done that is important to him (and me coincidentally) as is humanly possible. His number one goal is to stop Trump he says it over and over, someone should make a mashup video. Everything else is secondary, try to remember that one thing - it is the answer. His outside game lost to corruption (gee that's not new), and so he shifts to inside game, he is still working hard same as it's been for over three decades. Go Bernie.
Maybe some peops don't realize or don't care that he has living memory of family being rounded up and deported to concentration camps. If Trump wins where do you think the refugees will go from California? (Thanks Hillary!) There are a lot of people here, like a million and a half or so that Trump will try to disappear. I'm not kidding, there are armed racists here and everywhere. Everybody is armed to the teeth, that is the scary.
It is too twisted for me, thinking Trump possible. It's absurd! He won't win California but maybe the swing states and then I don't know what will happen. Brown says he's not building any walls here, at least there's that. pew pew pew!
I'm abstaining until the day before Election Day then I will make up my mind what ballot boxes to check or not. Thanks.
except Trump is not the biggest threat
believing he is ... now that's another story. imo, Obama and Bush and American empire top that threat. climate change... even more so.
but there is only one true issue at this juncture, imho: ACCOUNTABILITY. because we've failed here, we have allowed two people who have been under CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS to ascend as nominees of their parties for the presidency of the USofA.
we need to keep using social media to bombard people with alternative narratives about just what the fuck is going on . . . believe me, given time, reasonable people start to look. and the most gratifying thing I've seen so far? WHITE PEOPLE standing up for #BLM . . . this is a breakthrough and it will help more of us to come forward. it just takes a few people to show courage and how important DOING the right thing is.
rambling now . . .
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
Well, the entire Repug platform is pretty sick and twisted
They have fallen down the rabbit hole, people.
http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/07/13/republican-party-released-platform...
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Ralph Reed redux?
the link says:
Let's bring back all the old baggage, eh?
P.S. First Amendment of U.S.Constitution, Separation of Church and State
NP: Queen - Another One Bites the Dust
And the very sad part is
that I know dozens of people that agree with every word of it. We are so screwed.
O.k. When is the next meeting for the revolution?
-FuturePassed on Sunday, November 25, 2018 10:22 p.m.
Apparently Tony Perkins had a lot to do with it, the so-called
Family Research Council (AKA hate group) guy, not the Psycho guy, although sometimes it may be difficult to tell, https://mediamatters.org/video/2016/07/13/ny-times-jeremy-peters-gop-has...
"Stay in the kitchen, Mother!"
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They are coming for the gays now?
Of which I am, that didn't take long. Trump is being all things to all kooks why am I surprised? So they are planning for conversion therapy of teh gays huh? Hmph!. or LOL? I mean isn't it absurd? This is like 2000 where I was dumbfounded by Bush's popularity he was such an ass. And the opposition was Al Gore, not a good candidate with not a good history, it is too familiar for my comfort. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
Alan Greenspan, Andrea Mitchell
Yep. Log cabin Repubs are hoping to be able to change things
at the convention, but I'll be surprised if they get very far. Kind of interesting, they think they'll be able to raise money off of this, http://www.logcabin.org/pressrelease/a-message-on-the-gop-platform-from-...
Why not just be left wingers? We don't bite! (Unless maybe if you want us to!)
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I never cease to be amazed that they think freedom
only applies to them personally. Freedom of MY religion. I don't understand people who simply cannot and will not see things from another's perspective. Freedom to me means I DON'T have to read the Bible.
If they ever get a theocracy, they may be surprised -
Will it be Catholic or Protestant? Evangelical or fundamentalist? Gnostic? Orthodox? Pentacostal? Reformed? Charismatic? Prosperity or sacrifice? Selfishness or selflessness? See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations for a partial list of denominations; it's estimated that there are 33,000 Christian denominations around the world.
We can't even agree on whether it's okay to drink wine, we're going to run a country?
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Also, once you do away with separation of church and state
what's to stop the "dreaded" Muslims from being in the majority? There's a reason for those protections, and it's not FOR the people in the majority. If these majority religion people weren't so privileged and blind they'd see its the most important thing to protect. Especially since we've already traded away our privacy and freedom and right to protest for SECURITY or something.
How is Trump less a threat than
Obama, Bush and American Empire?
You don't seriously think Trump will make the slightest move to dismantle American Empire, do you?
Climate Disaster? How will Trump "It's a Chinese Conspiracy" help there?
These questions are asked by someone who certainly is not a Clinton supporter, at all. But to not see the very real threat of a Trump Presidency doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.
If I don't vote for Clinton (and I may not), it won't be because I don't think Trump is indeed a real threat. He is, as well as all those who will fund his campaign, who he'll bring into office, and all those armed crazies who love him so.
Don't forget "we don't need no minimum wage" either!
That's all we need, to have wages fall even lower!
There are no good options. Let's hope between now and the conventions, things change.
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Trump and American Empire:
It really concerns me that some on the left think it's a good tactic and/or truly believe some of Trumps' rhetoric - some of which I think comes from not being overly bright, and about which he'll be schooled by those who are brighter.
One area is his "plans" to do 2 things: Increase exports and force China to float their currency, ie, to have China increase the value of the Yen.
First, "increase exports" - we have the world reserve currency, so that means we must import stuff and export dollars (really it's about exporting inflation, not physical dollars, but the logic is the same) so the world has dollars to use to buy stuff. If the world doesn't have dollars they earn by selling us more stuff than we export, then the dollar will no longer be world reserve currency.
While I think there's some advantages of no longer having the world reserve currency - Trump "Make America Great Again" will not give up world reserve status once he's been taught about what a world reserve currency IS and how it works = Commitment to being the worlds' employer of last resort, ie, running large trade deficits.
In regard to China: Trump will not give up the high dollar value. Our dollars have high value only relative to the rest of the world currencies having lower value. The dollar needs to stay high in order to defend world reserve currency status.
Which is why we've bitched about China (good politics) but have never actually pressured them to increase the value of the yen. Once they do, then their currency will be in place to challenge the dollar.
Trump (Make America Great Again) will not give up world currency status, nor help China to develop a competing currency.
Etc....
Really, I have no idea how someone can think that Trump would be an improvement over Obama, Bush or that he might challenge American Empire.
Well, there are a couple of extenuating reasons,
at least for me. Trump has been on the record for some time now, promising he'd never cut Social Security benefits or means test them. That's huge for me, personally--my Social Security is all I have left to retire on, since I watched more than one career outsource and fold the company I was working for and either never made enough to be vested to any great degree or being laid off before I was vested at all. If I'm not mistaken, he's held that view for much longer than he's been running for President. So there's that. The other reason is for all his shit-talking, he's not hip on war as a first-resort. At all.
Mind you, all of this is moot, because I also don't think he's going to survive their convention. I think he's been ringing for Hillary all this time and he never wanted the job to begin with. What a coward. I have nothing for contempt for him since I saw the media floating the trial balloon that "Trump can quit". They're readying that whole storyline as we speak...so it's off to Green-land for my vote. I'm looking forward to that, actually. If Ross Perot could get 15% of the vote in the 1992 election, then it should be a no-brainer that Jill Stein will get more than that. If she doesn't, we'll know for sure how fixed it is, and we might even be able to catch them in the act of trying to cheat her out of any at all.
NO ONE here thinks Trump is
an "improvement" to any neo-liberal. IF any of us decided to pull that lever for the Rump it would be out of protest against the corruption of the Democratic Party. Why on earth would you think anyone out here seriously thinks Trump is an improvement just because we see he's no worse than Shillary? He is no worse than Shillary, all the bigoted blowhard aside. He uses his "campaign" tactics and she uses hers - bigotry from him, FEAR of him from her. And the band plays on...
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
I could find nothing in attachments to prove Sanders had to
endorse Clinton to save his delegates... please provide something more than someone saying so in a youtube video
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
This might help, pfiore8,
I heard the delegate call Bernie made yesterday on The Bern Report yesterday. I can't find it for you today. However, Tim Black played a large portion of it on his report yesterday. It calmed me down a bit. I think it is worth listening to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gZTh30soh8
Though I'm still not sure I understand the endorsement, I haven't understood quite a bit about this campaign.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
thanks for this... i will listen later!
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
We do not know
what conditions Sanders extracted for his endorsement. I think that the platform discussions were a distraction as they never yield anything concrete. Sander's entire political history shows that he is an expert in not being suckered in by false promises. Concessions usually come in the form of appointments or thew power to choose appointees. Obvious example of this was Clinton securing the SoS position for herself.
I suspect that this has less to do with the convention and more to do with the future makeup of the Administration than many think.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
This meme is floating around
This meme is floating around the internet. I have seen it in several places. It makes no sense to me, frankly. Is it true that he no longer has secret service protection? If that is true, he is no longer running for President, no longer a candidate. I am concerned that this meme is intended to keep a dream alive, keep our energies focused on a goal that isn't going to happen. You don't endorse someone and then go on national talk shows to continue speaking about that endorsement if still a candidate. You don't lie to your supporters about how "progressive" the platform is when almost nothing substantive made it into that platform and you know it is meaningless anyway. You don't congratulate the evil one for a means tested tuition plan when you know that it is a step in the wrong direction and the slithering one is using,cynically, it to introduce the idea of means testing the safety net. Belief in Bernie's continued campaign is dissipating anger and keeping us passive.
Just to say, crescentmoon,
that yes, he no longer has Secret Service protection. I heard Bernie talking about it with Charlie Rose on CBS This Morning, yesterday morning. It has also been reported in the media saying the campaign confirmed.
What kind of anger are we supposed to have?
Why are the dreams counterproductive?
Who is being passive because of the dream?
What should our attitude be in order to create productive action?
These are some questions I have been pondering.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Think of Jill Stein. Donate,
Think of Jill Stein. Donate, campaign, inspire the young folks to support her, to get excited about her. Obama is about to sign the dark law about GMO's that will create more obfuscation than clarity about our foods and prevent states like Vermont from keeping our simple, direct labeling. Why aren't we directing our anger through protesting this and the corruption of the Comey decision, the rigged primary? Why are we so passive. We have so much power together. We just choose to not use it.
What makes you think we are passive?
Many of us are Greens, donate to Jill Stein, and take whatever actions seem suitable to us. I'm 80 and I just don't go out looking to get hit with a police baton. I donate, sign petitions, talk to people, and make calls. Others are taking actions appropriate to their age and circumstances. Take a look at the new Jill Stein for President reddit site https://www.reddit.com/r/jillstein/?. I think you might see some people from her site here pretty soon. I know I've invited them. By the way, I just phoned Obama's phone answerers and asked them to ask him to veto the Dark Act. What am I missing?
-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962
I am not saying you or anyone
I am not saying you or anyone is disengaged or not caring. I believe that we are not going to change much by signing petitions. Obama is going to sign the dark act, no matter how many calls to the White House. What would matter, I believe, is bad optics, bad PR. Yes, the media can ignore large protest rallies, but all over the country, simultaneously, would be difficult to ignore. And it would be frightening to the powers that be if we really discovered our neighbors as allies, with common values and hopes, and goals. This country may not need to respond to progressives, but they do not want the world seeing the veneer of democracy falling apart. They still need that, although, I'm not sure for how much longer.
Well?
What should we be doing? Going to an all-day demo at the park, with the grandkids in tow, so they can have their faces painted and we can all spend a happy day together? Yeah, that's better than "signing petitions", though not by much. The point there is, you have to be careful who you throw your protest lot in with. Sometimes, "ringer organizations" suck you in. You might spend a perfectly useless day accomplishing nothing that way as well.
So....what else can we do to stop this?
Shall we all go to Washington, storm the building and strip the man of his pen? Let's try to come up with something realistic. The press can absolutely ignore anything it wants, no matter how big it gets. Which is infuriating, but true. It's easy to do when six orgs control all the distribution of their "news"...
Bernie's campaign has now accepted the
platform and will discontinue efforts to change it. His campaign exists, just isn't doing any campaigning.
I regard the platform as symbolic, but it was a good demonstration of just how corporatism has taken over the Democratic party.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Bernie didn't have to do Jack ****
He could have told the D's to piss off.
He could have abandoned this farce pre Philly, taken his delegates and his supporters and held a giant ass protest outside to announce a 3rd party run.
He could have partnered up with Stein and founded a serious progressive challenge to the corruption he just threw his lot in with.
He could have fought tooth and nail against the fact we just saw the single largest example of election fraud in the history of this country across the country.
But he didn't. And the fact he didn't fight the fraud to me is the most damning of all when it was plain to see. And now he's in the blah blah gotta beat trump rountine as he kisses Hillary's ring?
Reading that part of his letter made me physically sick to my stomach...
I know it's an unpopular opinion around here now, but screw him. He wants to lay down with the dogs, then he can have the fleas, and he shouldn't be surprised when some of us lose all trust and respect for him.
When the going got tough, when there was a real chance he could lose something, when the bullying got too intense principles went out the window and he caved. There's no oh he had too, there's no he's still fighting for us, there's zero zip zilch NADA but another example of another so called revolution laboring under the delusion you can change an nonredeemable, rotten to the core, cancer on Democracy that is the Democratic party as much as the Republican one anymore from the inside. When the system needs to be brought down on it's head, not propped up from within by someone who I feel almost does deserve the title of senator sheepdog at this point.
Though that could be the fact I'm still enraged beyond reason talking, but again, don't really care about that either.
See, their morals, their code... it's a bad joke. Dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be.
-The Joker-
So where does that take you?
Actually, I wish he had dumped the democrats and gone green too.
However, I don't have enough facts to know that those actions would have been the most productive in the long run.
So your view is . . . he lied . . . he chickened out . . . he is not for us . . . the revolution is a delusion . . . he sucks . . .
You are sure those views are all based on facts? This stance will create a positive outcome how?
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
This is kind of ridiculous
Bernie ALWAYS said he would not run third-party. You don't have to agree, I wish he had, too. But he didn't lie about it. He said he was running as a Dem and would meet the commitments that entailed. Just because the other side lied and cheated doesn't mean he has to. He always said he would support the nominee, and he doesn't have the delegates to win.
And you're conveniently forgetting the MSM response if he bailed and went with the Greens. He'd be crucified, and all but the most diehard supporters would bail. He'd be blamed if Trump won, and would lose all hope of continuing to make any positive contributions. He would not have won running third-party. Even if his running didn't cause Trump to win, he'd still be a pariah, and would accomplish nothing.
And if he refused to endorse, and got banned from the convention and stripped of delegates? Or denied participation somehow? What would that have accomplished.
Again, you don't have to agree. I would have liked to have seen him tell them to fuck off - try to get the word out to make them look bad. But again, the MSM was never going to take his side, so he'd come off looking like a cranky crackpot.
You are being unduly harsh about a person who has done more than any other individual to spotlight a progressive vision for America. And a person who has spent 40 years fighting the same fight, but you think he just decided to become a corporate Dem suddenly? Could it be that he knows better than you the best path for him to take?
I'm sorry - I find these reactions a little bit childish.
People feel how they feel.
To say how they feel is childish doesn't help at all.
Sorry, I also feel how I feel.
And I find the overblown backlash a little bit childish when we don't know all the circumstances. I can't help that.
I'm not saying anyone is a bad person, or that they are childish people. But I do find the histrionics to be a bit much. I'm also allowed to feel how I feel, right?
Yes, thank you, you are not alone in this, in any sense n/t
I'm certain I shouldn't post personal comments about
people's feelings here, which is why I stick to issues and pols and how I feel and what I think.
I have a filter.
I have a filter, too.
Actually, I have several. One of them is a very, very finely-tuned bullshit detector.
Ya wanna hear about all my other talents? I'll be happy to enumerate them
Out of respect to the owners and mods of this site,
this is the last comment I will ever make to you. You were warned yesterday and apologized today, and now you're back at it.
Okay, 'everyone' in this thread
who's characterizing other members thoughts, feelings, and emotions, needs to listen up, because it would be nice to avoid putting this thread in moderation.
Please heed JtC's words from yesterday. See below.
and also my words, from yesterday,
Thanks.
[Edit: Correction to my signature line.]
Mollie
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--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
I agree. Histronics is exactly the right word
C99 has been unreadable for me.
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
If the truth hurts tuff
C99 has been near unreadable to me for weeks.
Childish, you're right, its not childish, its infantile. Its Drama all the time every freakin day.
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
I really don't think ...
... the majority of posters here are exhibiting the kind of behavior you're referring to - and for the record, I agree it's painful to read and I also think it's premature.
The emotions have been so high for so long that it can't be too surprising we'd see this kind of outburst against Bernie. But I have been reading the comments, and I think those outbursts are in the minority.
I do sympathize with your feelings, Roger.
Beat in the USA.
The man has a 50 year track record
And you're painting with a broad brush.
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
If that's true...
(although I'm skeptical)
then Bernie should have made much more of an effort to lay the groundwork and educate his supporters about the reasons behind it before the announcement.
Instead, he sort of hemmed and hawed, dropped little hints as the platform process reached its disappointing conclusion, and then just announced he was endorsing her without any real explanation or Q & A.
If the Bernie camp had made even half the effort prior to the announcement to soften the blow, they wouldn't have to be spinning so hard now.
As it is, it's too little too late.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
He couldn't do that - you must see that
It has to be a "legit" endorsement. You can't tell your supporters, the DNC is making me do this, because then its not really an endorsement, is it?
The DNC has lots of ridiculous, controlling rules because they can make whatever rules they want to. I'm not sure what you're skeptical about, after seeing their behavior during the primary, there's nothing I can't see the DNC doing and requiring. But Bernie knew that going in, and still chose to run as a Dem for the exposure, and I believe it was the right move. He wanted to give maximum exposure to the message, I don't believe he cares too much whether he's president, just that he pushes the progressive agenda as much as possible.
But apparently no matter the facts, some people are going to continue to take this personally, as is their right.
And yet...
Isn't that exactly what they are doing right now post endorsement?
Where do you get I'm taking this personally? What is personal about calling out a very bad tactical mistake for what it is?
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Because it's not your mistake to make
I would never presume to tell you how to do your job. How about you afford the same courtesy to the guy who's been doing this for a really long time now, for a couple more weeks?
I am so sick of the damn NO WE CAN'T motif. It does no one any good at all.
What good will a couple of weeks do?
Bernie quit. His campaign is over.
Maybe that hasn't sunk in yet?
I'm not trying to dishearten you. But I think you'd rather argue with me than accept that fact.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
I have a different view.
I'm extremely interested in what Bernie will do in the next couple of weeks and what he will have to say at the convention.
I know a lot of folks don't think the Dem Platform is relevant to anything because it's not binding. I think the struggles Progressives have made are relevant - on environmental issues alone - not to mention Cornel West's speeches on Palestinians, which didn't even make it into a non-binding platform, but were publicized in a way they never would have been had he not attended the sessions.
I see zero downside to paying close attention to what Bernie does throughout the convention and even beyond, as long as he is a Senator and as long as he chooses to be part of the political process. I wasn't even tempted to support Hillary after he endorsed her, nor did I feel he made a mistake in doing what he had to do in order to keep his delegates at the convention. I know there are plenty of people who feel otherwise, but that's my 2 cents.
I haven't experienced thoughts or ideas from any commenter, either here, in the corporate media or on other blogs who has matched the value I've received from both Bernie's words and his actions. I am not clinging to any hope of anything - I am existing in the moment to moment unfolding of what is going on in our political process.
Again, I see no downside to that. YMMV.
Beat in the USA.
Nothing wrong with any of that.
But people didn't donate over $220 mil and countless hours for just process participation. They did it because they thought Bernie was in it to win the Presidency.
With his ill-timed, ill-considered endorsement, he pulled the rug out from under all of of his supporters.
Now his participation in the process amounts to stumping for Hillary and trying to convince his erstwhile supporters that everything he said in the primary about her doesn't matter because TRUMP.
Oh, and he's also writing a book that conveniently won't be out until after the election.
Frankly, I'm embarrassed for him.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Eh.
I think he'll be stumping for Dems downticket - I doubt he'll be traveling around the country stumping for Hillary. I think your characterization of his future "participation" is colored by your own disagreement with his political tactics. I disagree with your disagreement! I don't think his entire "participation" will be stumping for Hillary or telling folks everything he said in the primary doesn't matter. I've known his views on Trump since the beginning - I accept them even as I can't get onboard with those views.
I don't know about you but I almost maxed out on my donations to Bernie and I don't feel he let me down at all. Nor do I feel what he accomplished and will continue to accomplish is "process participation." That may be your view, but it isn't mine.
As I said before, I see zero downside to continuing to support him in any way I can.
I doubt we'll agree on any of this. I'm fine with my choice and it seems you're also fine with yours. So be it.
Beat in the USA.
My view is I couldn't care less about the convention now.
I believe it's just going to be a coronation show, something I don't wish to see.
A lot of 1%ers will be slapping each other on the back, having lavish parties that the peons won't be invited.
I won't be watching either convention. They're just shows.
I think
you just wanna be Debbie Downer. You're miserable so you want everybody else to be miserable, too.
See? I can armchar psychoanalyze, too!
If I'm so miserable.
Why do you keep commenting on my posts?
And I'm not miserable by any stretch, but I am angry at the way this was all handled. Even if he was going to quit, he didn't have to do it in such a ham-fisted and counterproductive way.
He did a lot of good during his campaign, but his exit strategy (or lack thereof) was a real insult to a lot of people.
They have every right to be upset, regardless of how that makes you feel.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Because sooner or later
We all have to move forward at some point. If you want to do that, fine. If you don't, that's your prerogative. I get that you're angry. You've made that abundantly clear.
Nobody faults you for being angry. But you seem also to want to bait others into arguments for the sake of being argumentative, so that you can belittle them for not being as angry as you are about it or for disagreeing with you about the level of anger. There's a name for that, and it's not nice.
I'm done, Not-Henry. If you want to be angry, be angry. I'll use this space to again beg the powers-that-be for a freakin' HIDE button, and wish you and your blood pressure all the best.
Never telegraph your intentions
No Bernie should not have done that, that's insane.
Never read Sun Tzu?
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
Right.
Because look how well NOT telegraphing his intentions worked out for him on this.
Get real. Bernie bungled his end game. Deal with it.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
We are all "dealing" with it
you seem to have a problem with how others deal with shit. What a waste of energy. How someone else "deals" doesn't affect you at all, unless you let it.
Oh just go away.
I've had quite enough with your obsession over the last two days of having to argue with every comment I make on this subject, regardless of whether it's addressed to you or not.
What's worse, all you ever do is insult me and try tell me what my 'problems' are.
I'm sure you will need to have the last word. Go ahead, I will no longer reply to you.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Since you can't see who recced your comments,
just wanted to let you know I've recced most of them here. I may have missed some.
It's too late Baby . . .
Yes . . . if only they had educated us first. How do you even know that was possible?
It's too late . . . it's too late . . . it's too late . . . .
How does that lead us forward?
Kind of like those sports commentaries after the game.
Sorry this sounds snarky, but really . . . I just don't get how "he should have done this! He should have done that!" . . . will move anything forward in a positive manner.
Because of the climate crisis, there is no time for anything that slows us down. If we get punched, we have to get back up.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
?
What's so impossible about calling a press conference and explaining the situation?
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
According to the author of this diary . . .
He would not have been able to have a press conference before and still show good faith.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
this is kinda funny to me
I can just imagine this presser...
BERNIE: Hey psssssst, I have an important message to my supporters. I want to let you Berners in on the game plan but DON'T TELL HILLARY OR DWS, m'kay?
TAPPER/BLITZER/MADDOW: Go on....
BERNIE: Yeah so here's the deal. {speaking in a whisper now} They got me in this vise grip, it's terrible, really it is but my team and I, we've got it all figured out. Here's the deal, now don't freak out OKAY!? Yeah Im gonna do it, Im gonna endorse her on live tv tomorrow BUT I'M NOT GONNA MEAN IT so CHILL OUT! You gotta trust me on this. They MADE me do it and it has to look like Im not just playing their game. We ...
TAPPER/BLITZER/MADDOW: Fascinating ... but why?
BERNIE: Well we already got all we can get from them on the Platform, we nudged them a little but most of it is horseshit. You know that, I know that, yadda yadda, so we move on. Next up we're taking the fight to the Rules Committee, thats next, thats between now and the Convention. IF I DO THIS THING for them tomorrow (and its bullshit of course, dont forget), they will allow me to keep my delegates and they won't have me and me delegates arrested in Philly when we show up to verify our credentials. So... the Rules people, boy they're gonna resist us on this stuff big time but we're still gonna fight for Open Primaries and let's ditch the SuperDelegates crap and a whole bunch of Rules stuff. Paper ballots if we can even. But ... KEEP ALL THIS UNDER YOUR HATS FOR NOW !!! If they get wind of my strategy in advance, we're toast!
TAPPER/BLITZER/MADDOW: Brilliant, Bernie, good luck with that. We won't spill the beans, promise, pinky swear!
Right...
Because criticizing honest and frank analysis about why Bernie's hard won support has suddenly evaporated is so much more helpful to understanding how to make the Progressive movement better.
Rah....rah...Go Bernie!
Is that better?
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Honest and frank analysis . . .
It doesn't communicate as that. It communicates as . . . "it's too late. Might as well give up."
Feels like . . . "we should just quit."
It doesn't have anything to do with "Rah . . . rah . . . Go Bernie!"
It has to do with = the climate is going to shit in the next few years and our only hope to escape extinction in our children's lifetime is to keep going 100 miles an hour for Bernie and Jill and every other candidate who gets that.
So yes . . . the endorsement sucked. It made me sad. Do I wish he could have told us in advance? Yes! But based on Bernie's history as a public servant and the fact he is still going after it at 74, I have considerable faith in his judgement.
We have to be bigger on the inside and muster personal courage ourselves to keep going based on the issues. I'll be voting for Bernie or Jill, and working to promote all of the best progressive down ballot candidates.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Fantasize whatever you like.
But I never said anything remotely like that.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Your analysis lends itself to that concluson
unfortunately for you, it doesn't have to be actually said in so many words.
Your sig line isn't exactly full of hope, either.
You want hope...
Vote for Obama.
I'm not here for hagiography, and I'm sick & tired of beautiful Progressive losers for whom a good try is enough.
If climate change and all other assorted evils are truly that imminent, then we can't afford NOT to win.
Bernie gave up when he didn't have to. Where's the hope in that?
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
If you'd actually read what people are telling you
you'd learn where the hope is.
And we have to do it
with a minimum of fuss and a minimum of worrying about actions past that we can't change and that really have no effect overall.
A lot of it was, in fact, spun in such a way as to sow defeatism. I'm glad to see so many seeing through it and getting that now, after a good night's sleep. Team Clinton wants us to splinter and abandon everything and throw our votes at her. She can keep dreaming, it'll be a cold day in hell before I ever give her my vote. YMMV, of course.
By endorsing Hillary, Bernie legitimized the rigged process.
He implicitly gave his stamp of approval for what happened during the primaries, regardless of whether that was his intent or not.
I don't know whether Bernie absolutely had to endorse or not, but you can bet that there would have been riots in the streets if all of his delegates were forfeited just because he refused to endorse Clinton before the convention. He probably had to do it eventually if he planned to remain a Democrat, but doing it mere weeks before the DNC with the rhetoric he used (unlike his endorsement for Bill in 1996) still felt like a slap in the face. He probably just decided to take the best deal that he could get, and I honestly can't fault him for that, but I personally feel that it was far more important to fight the Democratic Party no matter what the cost.
The endorsement reminded me of something I read months ago from Harry Reid's digital director, Faiz Shakir, in a Politico article about Bernie's email list:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/bernie-sanders-fundraising-list-22...
Meaning that the leadership relied on the fact that he would cave in the end. The patronizing idea that Bernie is "helpful" to the Democrats drove me nuts at the time, and even now it helps to illuminate how the people in charge of the party view him. When push comes to shove, they think they can break him by positioning themselves against a greater evil, which is part of the reason why I wanted Bernie to play hardball.
I think it's odd that he endorsed her
and maybe someday, and not too long from now, we'll get the full story. In the meantime I'm amusing myself by writing spoofs of the endorsement like this one from Bernie:
"Secretary Clinton and I disagree on many important issues but we are close on many others. Like fracking, for instance. She loves it and I hate it and everybody knows there's a thin line between love and hate."
Meanwhile I have to refine my facebook messages so I don't ruin friendships. "Is this another chance to take a shot at Hillary?" I was asked. Well...yeah...I guess.
He's writing a book that will come out a week
after the election. I wonder if he'll tell the truth about why he backed down. It will cost $27.
He'd only legitimize it if we all go vote for her
Please. If he tells you to jump off a bridge, you're not going to do that. Right? To me, thus, he hasn't legitimized Bridge Jumping. The whole world isn't following him. Especially since he hasn't jumped yet himself.
He can tell me he's "endorsed" all he wants, that's not gonna change my vote. YMMV, of course. In other words, if you're not going to listen to him, what has he done for her? That's right, not a damn thing.
All he's doing is playing their game. You and I see that. Clearly. Far as I'm concerned, that alone makes his candidacy a success. The guy ripped the mask off all the fixed bullshit, it's official now.
Their game and
his game. He's a two-fer. (Sorry, attempted joke). Once we observe that he's moving back into the arms of the dem's, we have to ask "What ELSE is he doing?" That's the important question IMO.
Agree with your comment.
THANK YOU for explaining Sanders as required to endorse!
THANK YOU for sharing this information on the realities of Bernie's obligations that required him to endorse, and to endorse now.
One could wish that this information had been in circulation by the July 12 endorsement date -- it would have lessened the online angst considerably, imo. But having this info two days after the endorsement means that we can generate a second news-cycle about the conditions constraining Bernie to endorse when he did. This is a good thing.
Anyone see Dr. West endorsed Jill??
Holy cow - and he's on the DNC Committee, isn't he? Can he do that? He did!
This primary is CRAZY.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/14/barack-obama-us-racism-police-brutality-failed-victims
ETA: Thanks for posting this as an essay, polka!
Hurrah for Cornel!!
Glad he went there.
That's great!
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
You're welcome Haikukitty.
You see? I listen and obey. I threw the cat among the pigeons with this one, but you and MsGrin agreed that I should do it so it's all your fault. It is a crazy primary for sure. I find this whole question/subject of what Bernie should or should not do fascinating and fruitless. I'm sure I will vote Green. I have had enough voting for the lesser evil and this time I think it's a case of equal evils. My method of staying relatively sane is to treat this whole election as theatre. It's that bad.
But I think that Bernie has worked harder than is good for a 74 year-old. He has done something that no one else had the courage or foresight to do. The massive corruption of our system has been laid bare for those who want to look. I knew it was bad, but I didn't realize it was epidemic. Because of that effort I am not going to blame him for not doing exactly what I want him to do. It's time now to concentrate on getting Jill Stein and good down ballot people into office. To concentrate on the long, hard slog to defeat the modern robber barons and their lackeys which includes the Democratic Party. I hope we can let Bernie have some peace and maybe even a little love because he's earned it.
-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962
I agree, Polka - with everything you said.
Although it's deadly serious, the election is so absurd you have to laugh.
I went a saw Bernie speak in Baltimore. He was full of energy, gave a rousing speech, even though you could tell his voice was giving out. After the drive into the city, and the rally, I was done for the day. As we left, we saw the motorcade leaving, and the person next to me said, he's headed to Delaware to do it again in an hour. I don't think people are really being fair - they need to consider the huge amount of effort he put into bringing these issues to light for so many people.
I hope in the end, after all he did, most people won't hold negative feelings towards him.
Bernie didn't do this all by himself.
That's why people got upset when he quit fighting. Now he's working for Hillary to defeat Trump. That's where I part ways with him. I expected him to endorse Hillary WHEN she became the nominee like he said he would do.
I expected him to take his campaign to the convention with his delegates and create a minority report which he said he would do.
I'm not angry with him. I was angry he chose to give in. But I've moved on now and will be channeling my time and money elsewhere.
And before anyone tells me he didn't concede and he's still a candidate, you're wrong. One can't be a candidate and endorse another candidate.
I am also supporting Jill.
It makes sense to focus on the most progressive option.
But one CAN endorse another candidate and not concede.
I don't expect that to happen, but it certainly is possible to endorse the presumptive nominee but not officially concede until the convention.
One can absolutely say the word "endorse"
and still remain a candidate themselves. DNC rules allow for that. Long as a candidate doesn't suspend their campaign, their delegates still belong to THEM.
I wish all our commenters would get hip to the idiot rules the DNC made for themselves. I think it's kind of funny, watching the Rules Committee twist in the wind over him, while he subtly rubs their noses in their own shit. But they made it possible. As long as Sanders doesn't formally concede, his delegates are his and so is his ability to bring something to the convention.
I'm looking forward to it. I hope there are some fireworks. I'm not going to get my hopes up--something else we might all try. All of this--the whole Sanders run--has been unprecedented. I fail to understand why folks think "it has to go This Way Or Else!!!!" Nobody was ever going to be able to predict anything about it.
LOL!
It is insane. As for Dr. West, well, those committee members seem to act with impunity no matter what they do. Good on him for taking advantage of it