Working for Change
First I must parse this comment:
The "all cops are evil" drumbeat is just as bad as the #BLM is a bunch of thugs rap. I have a good cop friend that is distraught by the fact that recently yet another young black man robbed a convenience store killing the guy behind the counter. How cliché can it get? Every damn time this happens he points out how this just makes it just that much harder to patrol that part of the city, because the reality is the local population knows who did it but they won't talk to him.
So, even here on caucus99percent we have people that will say my friend is part of the problem, sigh.
but, I am not sure how to say this more clearly, but I will try. Given recent events and social media chatter, good friends of mine are finding it more difficult to approach people of color. They are not mystified. They know why it is more difficult. And, they know how the constant drumbeat "all cops are evil" is not helping the situation. They are frustrated that much of what they need to say will not be heard because "all cops are evil" becomes the discussion rather than a point commented upon on the way to a discussion about real issues. Last night, at my daughter's going-away-party I again talked to the officer referenced above.
My good friend told me of a recent traffic stop. He clocked a car traveling at 20 over in a construction zone. As he approached the car (Omaha plates) he could detect the driver (a black man) was frightened. For several minutes we discussed various aspects of how ones psychological state presents as body language and tone of voice, and how those "tells" vary according to ones background. For a popular reference watch the short lived series, "Lie to Me", or better yet go to a training session conducted by the author of the source material, or even better yet get to know my friends.
But, I digress . . . As he approached the "offender" he moved to a position were the obviously frightened driver could clearly see his face. The driver, volunteered that his driver's license was in his back pocket and asked if it was okay to reach for it. My friend engaged the driver in "a conversation" about recent events and as he visibly my friend said, "I clocked you at 20 over . . ." and the driver stated, "I thought I was only 10 over . . ." They discussed the situation for a bit and my friend wrote him a warning "ticket" and wished him a better day.
I wrote the above early this morning and was about to write more when I saw an interesting lead-in line in the recent comments to the left. I opened a second window to read that interesting comment, and that lead to a series of comments . . . I can see that what I have written will have absolutely no effect and I am just wasting my time here.
There's something happening here
But what it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to bewareI think it's time we stop
Children, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking' their minds
Getting so much resistance from behindIt's time we stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?What a field day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly saying, "hooray for our side"It's time we stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the men come and take you awayWe better stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?We better stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?We better stop
Now, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?We better stop
Children, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?
Comments
I deeply appreciate what you've written
" I can see that what I have written will have absolutely no effect and I am just wasting my time here."
Don't know what earlier comments you're referring to - but I think what you've written is VERY important. It's how so many, many, many of the encounters between police and people stopped DO happen - and your friend is a MODEL of what we need to replicate. Your friend clearly has deep empathy for the people he's interacting with - knows the FEAR someone feels when stopped by police - and engaged in communication. Thank the Goddesses and Gods and who ever one believes in for this example.
Thank you. Your writing does have an effect, I don't think you're wasting your time.
Buffalo Springfield...yes. It's been too long since I listened to those wise words.
It's only gonna get worse
As long as cops continue to be vindicated for obvious murders of black men, things will not improve.
Police forces from coast to coast need to re-evaluate the protocol for use of deadly force.
Nature is my religion; the earth is my temple.
And a lot more people need education.
If you have never been in the line of fire, you have no idea of what happens. I have read so much (as in not all!!) crap here and other places about what a cop should have done. I say "crap" because so many of these critiques come from people that lack basic knowledge and/or understanding.
De-escalation used to be the presumed goal.
Now it often isn't. I blame this on many things, but mainly on this:
http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/8/ferguson-police-violenceisr...
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Disclaimer: I'm a cracker so have no idea
what black folks go through every day. But every time I've been stopped I have my DL, reg, and proof of insurance in my hand and keep both hands on the window. I know there are good cops out there but of the couple dozen I've known in my surrounding area, two were decent people. Half were there for the paycheck. The other half are douschnozzles. So that's not something I want to chance. I don't jump out of airplanes, ride in helicopters, or nap on railroad tracks, either.
Like my Uncle Angus Sheepshagger says, it don't matter how many fine sails you sew, how well you cobble the streets, or how nicely you thatch the roofs. If you fuck just one sheep...
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
I'm a cracker and know exactly what "they" go through every day!
Clarification: "you" is the generic you not the you = ghotiphaze you.
This is what I cannot grasp. How can "you" not know what black folks go through every day. How can "you" not know in painful detail what it is like to be exploited. How can "you" not know in painful detail what it is like to be judged by every negative thing you do but have every positive thing you do ignored.
I will see your "Uncle Angus Sheepshagger" and raise a very real I. G. Price. This man taught me that if I lose my good name I will never get it back. Lie once to a person, and there is nothing you can ever do to regain what you have lost. They may say they trust you, but . . .
Prior to 1970 (when that photo was taken) "I don't jump out of airplanes, ride in helicopters, or nap on railroad tracks, either." would have fit me well, but I figured out how to change. But, that is a whole other story.
When I get stopped I just have a fun conversation with the officer, but that is a whole different story . . . and I am a cracker, so not much hepl here . . .
Because it's different when something is actually happening
to you.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
It's understandable if people are feeling distrustful of cops
right now.
However, I think everyone knows that trends do not reflect, nor do they claim to reflect, the actions and temperaments of every individual. Obviously not every cop is horrible.
At the same time, the problems are systemic, not individual (at least that's my analysis; others disagree), so you have to not only look at any cop at who he is, himself, but how he is expected to function in a rotten system, and what are the likely punishments he will receive if he bucks that system.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Exactly!
The only group who can stop cops from shooting unarmed black, brown and white people is cops. Rhe "Blue Lives Matter" crowd cannot stop cops fron shooting ubarmed Americans. Judges and prosecutors refuse to charge and convict wrong cops of violent crimes. The problem is systemic, but the solution must come from within the ranks of law enforcement.
So how do we solve the serious problem of police violence?
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
I have a few, tentative ideas--
but they don't have a high-percentage chance of success (this is a very difficult situation). I just think they have a better chance of success than what's going on now.
A lot depends on how much this behavior is being actively encouraged from above--and from how far above.
The more federalized this gets, the less we will be able to change it, in my view.
We need to reach these guys (they are mostly guys, though not all) through people they have every reason to respect. Elders, church people, military especially. All white at the beginning--they need to be talked to by people they feel are from their own tribe. That means no liberals, no black people, probably no other POC. I know how that sounds, but you're talking about people who feel they are defending themselves in a war. We need go-betweens: that would be conservative, but not crazy, white men, probably indies, former Republicans, retired police officers who believe in de-escalation, preachers willing to take a chance--and, more than anything, veterans. This is one place where a multi-racial approach could help: getting multi-racial groups of vets--best of all would be squads, where the guys went to war together, and fought at each others' sides, black and white--getting those groups of vets to talk to police officers, and getting groups like that to talk to police across the country. When they talk to them--and that too would be complicated, because you'd need to find a venue that didn't rattle anybody--they would need to have figured out a way to frame the demand for change in a way that didn't look like a surrender.
That's all I've got so far.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
A different approach is right.
And yes, it stinks on the surface. But I get it. My brother-in-law is ex-VN, has been doing community activities for over 30 years in various (downhill) jobs. Also Tejano. Or Spanish forever as he would tell me. Alamo views when it fell as family lore.
I do not know his political stance, too much overlay of my late husband's sister. He seems mellow.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
My daughter, in three days, will be a county prosecutor!!!
Hello CSS thanks for the comments:
A few weeks ago we were brainstorming and she opined that the key person(s) would be prosecuting attorneys. The point she made is that they are (in reality) the gate keepers. She has been involved with a state mediation program through the Office of Dispute Resolution and is well versed in civil and misdemeanor issues. County felony prosecutors (if properly trained and motivated) could make this work in both directions. Mediation and Restorative Justice principles applied to felony level cases would change the dynamic dramatically, she (and now I) think.
Determining what goes to trial and what gets plead out is in the hands of the prosecuting attorney, and cops that bring bad cases would be systematically penalized while those that do the job properly would be rewarded.
Big congratulations to your daughter!
Re: what she's saying about prosecuting attorneys--
that makes me really worried about Bush/Cheney's ideological purge of DAs a few years back. Seems like that might come back to bite us in some ways we didn't expect.
As always, a lot depends on how much is being run from DC, and how much independence local LE--and local DAs--have.
If I were talking to DAs instead of cops I think I'd have to suss out another strategy...not sure that military and church elders would be the ones to send as go-betweens. Lawyers would need different people approaching them, I think.
Good luck to your daughter, and I'm glad that there's someone going into that field that wants to do some good!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Get on with it.
I see from this essay and another recent essay that you're searching for a "good" reason to GBCW. If that's what you want, get on with it. Stop farting around and pull the plug. Some of us will miss you, some of us won't. But if you're not happy here, there's no reason to stay and every reason to leave.
I'm finding it hard to understand your issue. Some cops are great. Most cops are good. Some cops are bad. A few cops are evil. Just like human beings in every other profession. And as in every other profession, a few bad apples can and do spoil things for everybody else.
Personally, I think you're overreacting and being childish. You have a friend who's a great cop. That's wonderful. Some people here (and in America as a whole, I might add) don't know or can't admit that there are good cops. That's their right. If you don't agree with people's right to hold beliefs and to freely express their beliefs, this is not the right place for you. I don't know what that right place is, but I wish you luck in finding it.
Ed
NEVER push someone over, I just felt anger at posts
We are all over the world, all over the US, mostly disconnected from our correspondents. We all express pain, frustration differently. I virtually had to deal with two online correspondents who pulled the plug.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
It's not clear to me
if you are suggesting he might be "pushing me over", if so , rest assured that could never happen. I
amused to be a faculty member that squished Deans for Breakfast: If I leave it will because the "cops are evil" noise gets as bad here as it was when I tuned out of TOP.I understand the anger, I was there up until the photo, after that I got better at channeling my anger. The most effective management approach is to learn to focus anger into a positive force and shed the self-destructive aspects. It is a simple application of primary disciple taught by the best but often ignored (or overlooked) by the novice.
Hey, worked for me as well. Cool.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
You may be very right.
I have no problem with people holding whatever beliefs they want, most importantly in make no difference what-so-ever what I might think of such a thing. Did that even make any sense? The point is I don't want some idiot thanking me very much for allowing them to have an opinion because they are incapable of reading the eleven words I typed at the start!!!
I do have a bid problem with people not being able to address this very real concern (referring to bad cops here) with rationality. That is my problem. causus99percent is a place to discuss issues. The drumbeat of "all cops are evil" just doesn't fit the "discuss" part of what we are doing here. It is like the "If humans evolved from chimpanzees, why are there still chimpanzees." discussion point. The "all cops are evil" refrain should not be a part of civil discourse. I see it and my brain grinds to a halt. I am defective, that way. That's my problem, not yours.
In Real Life, this has never been a problem for me because I can alway talk reasonably with anyone where all the channels for communication are available. In this environment (particularly with the anonymity) where "conversations" are fragmented and asynchronous I am approaching the sad truth that I have no business here, because my brain just doesn't function properly in the matrix. So that is the problem and I suspect I will got go back to ignoring on-line stuff except for the absurd, ridiculous, and entertaining. As for GBCW, I prefer Goodbye and Thanks for all the Fish.
If you have a problem, you are the problem.
I had a boss that shared those words of wisdom with me about my employer. Served me well.
Speaking for me: People do not have to agree with you and it doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong, and even if they are wrong, nobody died and left you in charge. You don't get to "tell" other people what to think or do. Your continued venting and anger at people who disagree with you on this topic is getting old. If you want to talk, talk. Just stop the finger pointing.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Thanks for all the fish
Would love the story behind that.
Also, I'd personally appreciate if you stayed. You bring a lot to the table, and you're not an asshole, not condescending, and polite even when attacked (note your response above.)
However, some things cause people to revaluate their priorities. Back in the early days of blogging, after Israel began bombing Lebanon (2006), a very well liked regular at a site that's no longer around couldn't take the fact it was happening, and the online discussions about it. He said goodbye, and never returned. He was missed. You will be too, but if it's getting to you, do what is best for you.
Fwiw, I got into it Thursday night with someone here who said (and defended saying) all cops, lawyers, and judges should die. All this being said right about the time cops were dying in Dallas. Then I woke up at 4:30 Friday morning to the news. We're all never going to agree 100% of the time, and some think what he said was a-ok (he got more thumbs up than I did at least before I went to bed), but I'm not going anywhere. He should be ashamed, not me.
I have triggers.
I revealed some at TOP. I responded rather harshly (using words of violence) to a troll WRT one of those issued. For my efforts I was removed from the hierarchy of an unrelated support group for using threatening language. But that is a whole different can of worms. This "all XXXX are evil" just grates on my nerves at times. I have a good friend in the Oregon Legislature that happens to be a Republican. And as everyone here (I would hope) would agree being a Republican doesn't automatically damn him to hell, or whatever.
As I don't actually know anyone here I is difficult to deal with this vitro toward cops as a whole. Do people really think all cops should be killed. Most (if not all) of the lawyers I know like to tell dead lawyer jokes.
I certainly don't think they should
Yes, there should be punishment for those who kill others unjustly. Just like the rest of us should be held accountable. No, they're not, almost ever, held accountable - and that seriously should change.
However, we need them sometimes. There really are good ones out there. I know it, and I've crossed paths with some real turds in the profession. I refuse to allow myself to believe that they are all pieces of shit worthy of death.
As for judges and attorneys, are we not grateful for our small group on the Supreme Court who rule, opine, and sometimes dissent in favor of issues that are progressive? Are we not grateful for the tireless efforts of The Innocence Project?
I used to be pro death penalty because I was brainwashed. Now, I do not ever condone killing people, not even the worst of the worst. Cops, lawyers, and judges included.
wait till your state has been raped for 5 or 6 years
by a GOP legislature enabling a Walker-like governor, and you may find your some of your attitude beginning to shift.
things can indeed get so bad that some of us can no longer pretend that it is "just politics". (years ago, a friend of mine, exasperated by another friend's use of that phrase in explaining his willingness to date a republican, spluttered, "but politics is everything.") there's a young woman in my workplace. she is friendly, she is bright, she is earnest, she imagines herself to be well-intentioned, and she's put her ass on the line, because she's in the reserves. she's also wrong, and i cannot anymore sit and make casual conversation with her, because regrettably, she has declared war on me, my family, my friends, and my community -- and she doesn't even know it.
I find it very difficult anymore to socially engage with anyone who votes Wisconsin GOP, because we are in a cold civil war, and they are on the wrong side. I know people who have lost jobs and homes in this war, and anyone who supports governor walker is explicitly approving of those losses. I've watched our universities wither and falter under the assault, and anyone who supports governor walker is explicitly approving of that assault. I've watched voter suppression and gerrymandering and corruption on a scale far beyond anything that has been seen in wisconsin's 150+ year history, and anyone who supports governor walker is explicitly approving that corruption and usurpation of democracy. there is no middle ground available for such folks. faced with the choice between good and evil, they have sided with evil, to satisfy their tribalist urge. There is no good they can ever do, no "basic decency" they can ever manifest, that overrides the fact that they are cheerfully, and often adamantly, supporting outright evil.
so what is one to do? your cop friend sounds like a basically decent individual. the real tragedy of the situation is that the behavior that you anecdotally laud ought to be, not an example of see? there are some good ones out there, but rather the expectation. it represents, for me, the basic minimum standard.
and the only way it is ever going to be that basic minimum standard is if enough cops rise well above that basic minimum standard, and start doing the difficult thing -- because there is nothing difficult or particularly admirable about being basically decent -- which is to take the public's side against their own blue tribe, both in their personal lives as citizens, and in their professional lives as police officers.
so far, the known number of such willing cops in the entire country, out of the hundreds of thousands on the job -- most of whom, i'm often assured, are "good" -- can be counted, to my knowledge, on my own distal phalanges.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
"So long, and thanks for all the fish"
comes from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
It's the parting remark sent to humanity by the dolphins (who, being aliens from outer space, have been evacuated by their off-world brethren to escape Earth's impending annihilation).
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Great response.
I tune out the "all cops are evil" sort of things and try to avoid essay topics that bother me. Compared to TOP, though, there's very little here that I need to avoid. Some of the pro-gun commentary does hit a nerve because my big brother was shot to death. By a cop. But I don't think all cops are evil and I certainly don't want them dead because of what happened to my family.
My Black Panther Buddy Just Got Back
from their monthly breakfast meeting at the Rasta/Healthy Food Diner. (I can't recall the name).
There's gonna be a meeting on Skid Row with several Skid Row community oorganizations to discuss this very problem.
My initial take is that the broad consensus is neither for nor against shooting cops. They just want LAPD cops to stop shooting so many family, friends and neighbors. Sure, it would be nice if the LAPD immediately stopped shooting all unarmed, innocent blacks, but old Black Panthers understand that ain't gonna happen any day soon.
They are also 100% opposed to LAPD cops shooting native Americans, Latinos and even white folks, but are understandably more concerned about their personal family, friends and neighbors.
If anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears and will post a summary of the meeting later this week.
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
Well, like I said, I've got some tentative ideas I put in a
post above. I hope nobody thinks I'm being racist. I'm basically trying to imagine who a cop that might kill an unarmed black person (or Latino person in some states) would listen to.
Veterans, especially groups of veterans that include people of many races who fought together, are my best idea so far.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Yep. Saw that.
Dialogue is essential. The biggest obstacle is changing a police culture that indoctrinates the "shoot first at any or no provocation" instinct for survival. Maybe hiring changes. It is a difficult systemic problem.
I read "Breaking Rank" by Norm Stomper when it first came out. Here's a Nation article about Norm's continuing efforts : http://www.nationinstitute.org/blog/nationbooks/2492/still_breaking_rank...
The change has to come from within law enforcement ranks, the judiciary and prosecutors. That's my take.
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
Survival Instinct
My other good friend that was a cop and is now doing clinical rounds on his way to MD was in the line of fire a short time ago.
One fine day he responded to a call and soon found himself facing a shotgun. Both barrels pointed at his face well above the too small very too thin vest, my other good friend tried to talk this guy down! Fortunately my other good friend shot (and yes killed) the perp in time so I had the opportunity to talk with my other good friend last night.
The point of this story comes with the shooting review board: During the proceedings one of the members asked my other good friend this question, "Don't you think it would nave been better if you had allowed him to shoot you to be sure he was serious?" No Shit!, a review board member actually asked him that very question. You may be right
but I hope you would agree that suggesting the officer wait to have his face blown off to be sure the perp is serious might be . . . I don't know . . . characterized as stupid.
You're right. There are many excellent officers.
I think that the issue is more that there is something fundamentally wrong with the institution of policing itself than the individual agents that serve as officers. No matter how many decent men and women serve as police officers and try their best to uphold the highest standards of service within their individual communities, they are unable to change the institutional structure (also the impression with the public) which dictates that officers are more than willing to use excessive force in situations that require none.
Unless they are personally individually involved in an act of brutality, I do not hold any officer responsible for what has happened any more than I hold a random State Department employee responsible for Hillary Clinton's actions. There is only so much an individual can do when they are trapped within a system of power and dependent on it for their survival.
However, as others have noted, critiquing the larger institution is another matter entirely. That is something I feel is warranted and where the emphasis should be. There is no denying that we have seen a full scale militarization of the police since 9-11. There is no denying that police brutality is a very real phenomenon, particularly in communities of color. There is no denying that officers operate in a system which has incentivized the incarceration of African Americans and other minorities, primarily through the criminalization of minor offenses. Additionally, since the beginning of the conservative movement, there have been many attempts by the right to embed overt racism into a discourse of "law and order" whereby African Americans are criminals that need to be punished by any means necessary.
Despite the presence of many noble individuals in law enforcement, there is no doubt that there are individuals who abuse their power. One of my friends, an ex-cop, related to me stories about how some of the people he knew in his department were bigots and misogynists that looked for every excuse to exercise their power against those they were sworn to protect. That's not every cop, but the institution does almost nothing to find these individuals and remove them from law enforcement. Rather, there are mechanisms, embedded in the legal system, that actually protect them from such actions.
Police officers face occupational hazards that many of us will never know or understand. Echoing what others have said, I think that we need empathy and nuance in the way that we approach this debate, not just when it comes to the victims of police brutality but also for the officers themselves. Instead of trying to put themselves into the shoes of others and trying to understand the situation from a different perspective, so many people are polarizing the debate to a very dangerous level where it is literally positioning the police against the communities they serve. That will fix absolutely nothing and only make things worse.
Sebastian Junger, author of The Perfect Storm,
has a new book out, The Tribe.
I have not read it, only skimmed a video (lol) in which he discusses tribal concepts (small groups of people, by circumstance placed together to act together). He discusses this re: military units, and what happens when they rotate home again. The tribal bonds are broken. A certain feeling of being a valued cog goes away. In many cases, the feeling of acceptance for utility is gone.
At least 4 of the 5 murdered police in Dallas were former military. Searching for their lost tribe?
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.