Demo Platform Committee votes down opposition to TPP
Submitted by Alex Ocana on Sat, 07/09/2016 - 1:09pm
Jealus, West and Turner offered a simple addition to all the Clintonesque verbiage about the TPP "Thats why we oppose the TPP." It was voted down 74-105... Now coming up the debate on the Clinton TPP verbiage. Will add in edit.
The Clinton TPP verbiage passed by 117-64. That leaves it open, with a couple of meaningess tweaks, for passage in a lame duck session of Congress. I might add that from my point of view as an international it sounds like an extension of gringo imperialism calling for "strict compliance" "denouncing subsidies of foreign competitors" and the like.
This looks like it may cause a split in the party...
http://www.c-span.org/video/?412247-1/dnc-holds-platform-meeting-orlando
Comments
The verbiage that was passed
Sorry about the all caps -- thats the way it was put on C-Span
>> AMENDMENT NUMBER 93. THIS IS THE FINAL VERSION THAT WAS DISTRIBUTED THIS MORNING. NOTE THAT IT COMBINES THE AMENDMENT 234 AND 235. THIS IS SPONSORED BY LEE SAUNDERS ON PAGE 10, LINE EIGHT. THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT IS LONG. I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT ON THE FRONT END. DEMOCRATS ACKNOWLEDGE THAT FOR MILLIONS OF AMERICANS, GLOBAL TRADE HAS FAILED TO LIVE UP TO ITS PROMISE, WITH TOO MANY COUNTRIES BREAKING THE RULES AND TOO MANY CORPORATIONS OUTSOURCING JOBS AT THE EXPENSE OF AMERICAN WORKERS AND COMMUNITIES. OVER THE PAST THREE DECADES, AMERICA HAS SIGNED ON TO TOO MANY TRADE DEALS THAT HAVE NOT LIVED UP TO THE HYPE. TRADE DEALS OFTEN BOOSTED THE PROFITS OF LARGE CORPORATIONS WHILE AT THE SAME TIME FAILING TO PROTECT WORKER RIGHTS, LABOR STANDARDS, THE ENVIRONMENT, AND PUBLIC HEALTH. WE NEED TO END THE RACE TO THE BOTTOM AND DEVELOP TRADE POLICIES THAT SUPPORT JOBS HERE IN AMERICA. THAT'S WHAT DEMOCRATS BELIEVE WE SHOULD REVIEW AGREEMENTS NEGOTIATED YEARS AGO TO UPDATE THEM TO REFLECT THESE PRINCIPLES . ANY FURTHER TRADE AGREEMENTS MUST MAKE SURE OUR TRADING PARTNERS CANNOT UNDERCUT AMERICAN WORKERS BY TAKING SHORT CUTS ON LABOR POLICIES OR THE ENVIRONMENT. THEY MUST NOT UNDERMINE DEMOCRATIC DECISION-MAKING THROUGH SPECIAL PRIVILEGES AND PRIVATE COURTS FOR CORPORATIONS AND TRADE NEGOTIATIONS MUST BE TRANSPARENT AND INCLUSIVE. DEMOCRATS' PRIORITY IS TO SIGNIFICANTLY STRENGTHEN ENFORCEMENT OF EXISTING TRADE RULES AND STRENGTHEN THE TOOLS WE HAVE, INCLUDING BY HOLDING COUNTRIES ACCOUNTABLE ON CURRENCY MANIPULATION AND SIGNIFICANTLY EXPANDING ENFORCEMENT RESOURCES. CHINA AND OTHER COUNTRIES ARE USING UNFAIR TRADE PRACTICES TO TILT THE PLAYING FIELD AGAINST AMERICAN WORKERS AND BUSINESSES. WHEN THEY DUMP CHEAP PRODUCTS IN OUR MARKET, SUBSIDIZED, STATE-OWNED ENTERPRISES DEVALUE CURRENCIES AND DISCRIMINATE AGAINST AMERICAN COMPANIES, OUR MIDDLE CLASS PAYS THE PRICE. THAT HAS TO STOP. DEMOCRATS WILL FIGHT TO USE ALL OUR TRADE ENFORCEMENT TOOLS TO HOLD CHINA AND OTHER TRADING PARTNERS ACCOUNTABLE, AND ALL COUNTRIES MUST BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE WHEN THEY MANIPULATE THEIR CURRENCIES TO GAIN A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE. WHILE WE BELIEVE THAT OPENNESS TO THE WORLD ECONOMY IS AN IMPORTANT SOURCE OF AMERICAN LEADERSHIP AND DYNAMISM, WE WILL OPPOSE TRADE AGREEMENTS THAT DO NOT SUPPORT GOOD AMERICAN JOBS, RAISE WAGES, AND IMPROVE OUR NATIONAL SECURITY. WE BELIEVE ANY NEW TRADE AGREEMENTS MUST INCLUDE STRONG AND ENFORCEABLE LABOR AND ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARDS IN THEIR CORE TEXT WITH STREAMLINED AND EFFECTIVE ENFORCEMENT MECHANISMS. THEY SHOULD CRACK DOWN ON THE ON AIR AND ILLEGAL SUBSIDIES OTHER COUNTRIES GRANT THEIR BUSINESSES AT THE EXPENSE OF OURS. THEY SHOULD PROMOTE INNOVATION AND SHOULD PROTECT A FREE AND OPEN INTERNET. WE SHOULD NEVER INTO A TRADED -- ENTER INTO A TRADE AGREEMENT THAT PREVENTS OUR GOVERNMENT OR OTHER GOVERNMENTS FROM PUTTING IN PLACE RULES THAT PROTECT THE ENVIRONMENT, FOOD SAFETY, OR THE HEALTH OF U.S. CITIZENS OR OTHERS AROUND THE WORLD. ANY TRADE AGREEMENT MUST PROTECT WORKERS AND THE ENVIRONMENT AND NOT UNDERMINE ACCESS TO CRITICALLY NEEDED PRESCRIPTION DRUGS. THESE ARE THE STANDARDS ALL DEMOCRATS BELIEVE SHOULD BE APPLIED TO ALL TRADE AGREEMENTS, INCLUDING THE TRANSPACIFIC PARTNERSHIP.
More amendments coming up...
From the Light House.
As expected. [nt]
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
It doesn't matter
President Hillary and the Republicans are going to support TPP, TISA, and TTIP anyway.
Another Sanders amendment just came up. The Hightower amendment.
THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT IS TO ADD THE FOLLOWING. MANY STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTIES HAVE VOICED OPPOSITION TO THE T.P.P. AND IN THIS CASE, FULL AND MORE COMPLETE DISCUSSION OF THE CONTENTS SHOULD BE DEBATED IN PUBLIC. THE IDEA TRUST BUT VERIFIED. WE DO NOT SUPPORT ANY SENATE VOTE ON THE T.P.P. DURING THEIR LAME DUCK SESSION THIS YEAR. THE AGREEMENT WAS NOT PUBLICLY DISCUSSED AND DEBATED ON AN ISSUE BY ISSUE BASIS AND WE OWE TO IT THE NEXT GENERATION OF AMERICANS TO GIVE MORE THOUGHTFUL CONSIDERATION PRIOR TO ENTERING INTO A WELL MEANING BUT QUESTIONABLY AGREEMENT. THERE ARE TOO MANY QUESTIONS TO CONDONE SUPPORT OF THE T.P.P.
Hightower gave a wonderful speech calling the Clinton TPP amendment just what it is... a sellout to corporations without any debate amongst the people affected. Nevertheless the Hightower amendment was rejected by 71-104.
So, folks, get ready for the lame duck passage of TPP... Bernie Sanders would be a wimp to endorse this shit. IMO.
From the Light House.
just listen to a rerun of Hightower speaking
... love it. All the boxes with the petitions held up... I am always amused about the antiques of some procedures. like voting with raising white cards and make a good estimates about the yeahs and neahs... and the display of boxes with petitions.. it's so in contrast with modern technologies.
Oh, lot's of boohs and yeahs and shouting and then Malloy announced the Hightower amendment as failed. Oh boy, even he got confused on what was actually voted on at first. Puzzling.
thanks, Alex Ocana, I wished I would be capable
to even understand what is going on. I listen, but have even difficulties to understand what is a Clinton and what is a Sanders "verbiage". At least I didn't catch that the committee voted down opposition to the TPP or that specific sentence. How bad is that? So, now, what has been passed, means that "they are not against the TPP"? They are just against the TPP "in spirit".
If all of it is non-binding anyhow, who among the little people are going to try to understand what's going on? What for?
With that kind of spirit, may be I should get myself a little bit of spirit to drink and cry over my incapability to follow that whole thing.
Explanation of sorts.
The Clinton verbiage is to make it sound like they are against TPP while being for it. The longer thing in caps is Clinton's and more or less sounds like a political speech she always gives while calling TPP the "gold standard" and a "top priority".
Sanders amendment was simple. To add, "That is why we oppose TPP." Clinton supporters won't oppose TPP on anything except soundbites. "Protect workers"... blah blah blah. The main issue as I see it is giving complete control of the USA government and others to corporations. i.e.. World Corporate Economic Domination. We know the effect in Dominica from the destruction of our family run banana farms. In Bolivia we refuse to sign up for any of it, or accept USA aid... it leaves us a target for subversion, CIA/corporate coups and any amount of headaches....
I am also drinking rum on ice as I watch this shit unfold.
From the Light House.
Bolivia is looking better and better
I'm seriously considering moving out of the country in the next few years. The more I learn from you about Bolivia, the more attractive it sounds.
Electoral system, refusing U.S. aide. I'm going to look it up right now because I'm sure things have changed since learning about South America in grade school.
Cheers!
Dominica
the problem with Bolivia is it is, like Honduras was and venezuela is, a target for imperialist subversion. Also it is so completely different from the rest of the world it could cause major culture shock. Dominica, on the other hand, is paradise. And doesn't have anything of importance to the Empire.
From the Light House.
Went to Wikipedia re Bolivia
Whoa! It would be a bit of a culture shock, but it would absolutely be a great place to visit first lol. The cultural and geographic diversity are intriguing. I'm ashamed to say that I don't speak Spanish, at least not well enough to actually communicate. I'd definitely be a minority, and I'm not a Mennonite.
As I've grown older, I've become less tolerant of humidity and heat (and a deadly allergy to mold has developed), so some place like Canada or Germany might be better for health, even though I hate being cold.
I'm afraid that this is a
I'm afraid that this is a global hostile corporate take-over and that all countries are targets. And I fear that those not subjugated via economic terrorism will be attacked militarily, should a corporate candidate get the Presidency.
Vote against both evils - vote Green!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Here in France they have been trying to ram neo lib change but
widespread protest apparently will continue, and even if it passes it may never be put into place:
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
thx, I got it round about, but am never sure, I really
understand it correctly. To me it's essential that people write about it clearly.
Mmm hmm
I have been trying to give a summary of basic results... and others are better at explaining... Hope that is OK.
From the Light House.
oh, you are doing great, I didn't mean to be critical,
the whole DNC platform meeting just reminds me how (we little people of the German TV studio in DC) struggle to listen to those events and try to "get" what is going on. Only senior news producers were really able to "catch" everything correctly the first time around and basically then communicate with the correspondents about it, so that nobody reports something wrongly.
I have just some flashbacks of my former work. Transcripts were life-saviors ... I was not working on that level in the studio, just a little person helping the crew with various tasks. I found it always difficult to follow voting procedures on the House floor.
I think it's even amazing that this live thread is going on. You misunderstood me. I commend you very much for doing this Open live thread.
mimi, shorter version: word salad, signifying nothing
but a neo-turn.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Raising a toast to you,
think will do the same, trying to follow all of this...............
Life is what you make it, so make it something worthwhile.
This ain't no dress rehearsal!
This brings up two tactics
1) Making TPP the top issue between now and Nov with your elected officials (in both parties) with a barrage of calls, emails, and petitions.
2) Voting Green to make sure they understand you mean it.
Maybe that will get through to enough of them to make a difference
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance. - e.e.cummings
Reject TPP, and register with the Green Party
Together, that is a powerful message.
Besides getting the Green Party on the ballot in more States, voter registration is a political statement by itself. We know the Green Party rejects TPP, but there is a lot more it represents.
Growing the Green Party will at some point make us a pivotal electoral mass of voters: when we are numerous enough, the Democrats will have to negotiate with us, or lose elections because we won't support them on (whatever it is). We will have power to sway left leaning Democrats who will listen to us, but have not yet made the move to join us as Green Party members.
Be a Friend of the Earth, cherish it and protect it.
If Bernie does endorse Clinton after all this shit I will cry.
The only thing we can do is vote Green or non-incumbent progressive challengers in to office. Of course, after witnessing the most rigged primary in US history, it is probably all for not since the DLC/DNC/DWS Third Way cabal apparently has control of the election system itself.
- Joseph Stalin, who also coined the term 'American Exceptionalism', yes, we are exceptionally bad at democracy.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020
I will join you in the crying, but I have little doubt that
he will endorse her.
Already voted for Jill Stein last cycle, plan to again this one.
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
Another one voted down
Now the comiitee is down voting every Sanders amendment without even bothering to debate the issues. They just voted down an amendment to prohibit companies who ship their jobs overseas from doing business in the USA. No debate...
From the Light House.
Can you imagine the popular support that
this plank ALONE would drum up if it was a part of a sincere presidential campaign? You know, like the one Bernie will run if they would only be wise enough to nominate him?
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
My wife's reply:
"Well, that's not my party."
Except for a single regrettable republican vote years ago, she has voted Democrat every time. No more.
“What the herd hates most is the one who thinks differently; it is not so much the opinion itself, but the audacity of wanting to think for themselves, something that they do not know how to do.”
-Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
Score one for Sanders
"Domingo Garcia proposes, " Support strong criminal laws and civil penalties to be applied to Wall Street criminals who prey on the public trust." Upvoted nearly unanimous.
From the Light House.
"all of it is non-binding anyhow"
Especially this provision.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
go green
Just saw a Yahoo headline that Jill Stein has offered the Green Party nomination to Bernie. He can have the whole thing, she said. After the dem party is finished ignoring our revolution, Bernie should say, "that was your last chance. See you at the general election debates!"
Mad respect for Stein!
I don't see Bernie accepting
I wish he would. This strategy is our last chance of defending what rights we have remaining. But he promised he would not, and I expect him to decide to live up to that promise.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
FWIW, a commenter at TPW says Bernie, at the
'where-do-we-go' town hall in Albany--was asked point blank would he would run with Jill Stein on the Green ticket.
His answer was an unequivocal, 'no.'
Don't have time to find the comment and link to it, but it was made by jbob, directed to LD.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
I just wished he would (at least one day in the future) explain
why he refuses it.
Maybe Bernie has something he
Maybe Bernie has something he knows/up his sleeve which he can't yet publicly discuss?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
would be nice to hang one's hopes on something like it /nt
OMG, I could become the terrier rescue crone
Poor older lady, I have met few Wheatens, many with social issues. But I explore the terrierist mind.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Sanders -- Prohibit Revolving Door -- Downvoted by Clintonites
DEMOCRATS WILL SUPPORT LAWS THAT WILL PROHIBIT PUBLIC OFFICIALS FROM WORKING FOR THE INDUSTRIES THAT THEY REGULATE FOR AT LEAST FOUR YEARS AFTER THEY LEAVE OFFICE. WE WILL ALSO SUPPORT PROHIBITING LOBBYISTS WHO WORK FOR WALL STREET ON PUBLIC INTERESTS FROM REGULATING INDUSTRIES AND AGENCIES THAT PREVIOUSLY REGULATED THEM.
Voted down by the Clintons. Numbers not posted.
From the Light House.
Back in college Government class, I suggested similar
Our assignment was to construct a constitutional amendment. Mine was the same as Bernie's proposal, except I said 5 years and made it go both ways. No elected officials allowed in industry they regulated, and no industry person allowed to be in a regulatory position for 5 years.
Mine was received better than his, but no one in class was beholden to money.
Many states - not CA though - have laws that allow employers
to impose restrictions on workers after they leave the company. It is very common in the "high tech" sector. If you're in one of these states and are forced to sign this document, you cannot go to work for another tech company and you can't even start one of your own.
What is needed, and what Sanders and others are proposing, is legal.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
Exactly, duckpin
I've signed one before.
After watching The Future of Food, I was floored by the revolving door of Monsanto and FDA employees. It's so wrong. Yet it's the only way they do it.
This is precious. They Dems voted down every major progressive
platform request Sanders has made. They are just so damn predictable. And we are fucked yet again. Oh wait, Her Royal Heinie said she's willing to means test the college education issue.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
So, what's left for Sanders to demand? What 'influence' does he have left? All they want him for now is to rope in us rubes that aren't smart enough to know what's good for us, and that's another Clinton in the White House.
EDIT: Took out 2 //s
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Fair and Equal Media Amndt. & More funds for public voted down
Technical difficulties at C-Span so hard to follow but I am pretty sure that this is the amendment that just got voted down by the Clintons. (The transcript was all messed up from the technical difficulties).
From the Light House.
Trust Busting Passes Unanimously
>> AND MINUTE NUMBER 178 SPONSORED BY MARK PRYOR ON PAGE NINE, LINE 17, THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT IS TO INSERT ON PAGE NINE, LINE 17 THE FOLLOWING, WE SUPPORT THE HISTORIC PURPOSE OF THE ANTITRUST LAWS TO PROTECT COMPETITION AND AGAINST THIS SORT OF EXCESSIVELY CONSOLIDATED ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL POWER WHICH CAN BE CORROSIVE TO A HEALTHY DEMOCRACY. WE SUPPORT REINVIGORATING ENFORCEMENT OF ANTITRUST LAWS TO PREVENT ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR BY DOMINIC COMPANIES, AND PROTECTING THE PUBLIC INTEREST AGAINST ABUSIVE, DISCRIMINATORY, AND UNFAIR METHODS OF COMMERCE. WE SUPPORT PRESIDENT OBAMA'S RECENT EXECUTIVE ORDER DIRECTING ALL AGENCIES TO IDENTIFY SPECIFIC ACTIONS THEY CAN TAKE IN THEIR AREAS OF JURISDICTION TO DETECT ANTICOMPETITIVE PRACTICES SUCH AS TYING ARRANGEMENTS, PRICE FIXING, AND EXCLUSIONARY CONDUCT, AND TO REFER PRACTICES THAT APPEAR TO VIOLATE FEDERAL ANTITRUST LAWS TO THE DOJ AND FTC.
From the Light House.
What is the brouhaha all about with the last vote on
Weed? Democracy in action, and noisy at that. What did they disagree about? The vote was 80 to 81 with one vote abstaining. I don't get what the disagreement is all about.
What is a clicker? What do you do with that? Vote? Vote by clicker, you can track the vote. If you don't vote with a clicker ... apparently that was not clear to some folks?
It's fun to watch this. Get to know various Democrats in the US I have never seen on TV.
Support for not harrassing Americans abroad with FATCA - Passed
Another victory from Americans Abroad. May I ask why their only delegate is a Hillary supporter when Sanders won by a landslide?
>> AMENDMENT TO 15 SPONSORED BY JOSEPH SMALLHOVER, THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT IS FOR THIS SECTION TO READ AS FOLLOWS, DEMOCRATS BELIEVE THAT NO ONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO AVOID PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE BY HIDING MONEY ABROAD AND THAT CORRUPT LEADERS AND TERRORISTS SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO USE THE SYSTEM OF INTERNATIONAL FINANCE TO THEIR ADVANTAGE. WE WILL WORK TO CRACKDOWN ON TAX EVASION AND PROMOTE TRANSPARENCY TO FIGHT CORRUPTION AND TERRORISM, AND WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT LAW-ABIDING AMERICANS LIVING ABROAD ARE NOT UNFAIRLY PENALIZED BY FINDING THE RIGHT SOLUTIONS FOR THEM TO THE REQUIREMENTS UNDER THE FOREIGN ACCOUNT TAX COMPLIANCE ACT AND FOREIGN BANK ACCOUNT REPORT.
From the Light House.
not encouraging
Bernie Sanders Allies Lose a Fight Over Democrats’ Stance on Trade
Turns my enthusiasm off. Sigh.
Thanks, mimi and featheredsprite. Just created a Twitter
account (solely) for GE policies, and will Tweet Bernie's campaign to see if I can get some clarification regarding FSC's concession on a Medicare Buy-In program.
If Bernie's campaign answers me, I'll post it here.
Regarding the Medicare Buy-In--from everything that I've read since FSC brought up this policy on the Campaign trail, she has not proposed a 'subsidized' premium. Therefore, the proposal would be practically useless for many lower and moderate income seniors.
IOW, her proposal is a retread of WJC's 1990's proposal to open Medicare to seniors age 55-64, who are capable of picking up the entire tab for the monthly premium (i.e., unsubsidized).
Also, if anyone has seen an article that addresses this aspect of the proposal, please consider posting a link to it (here). Before I Tweet the Campaign, I'm going to conduct a search--just in case, there's been a change in her position.
Thanks.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Medicare buy-in
Medicare already has a "private option" - privatized Medicare Advantage through insurance companies; and the Medicare prescription drug program, if it were included in the buy-in, is fully privatized. Also, older people are more expensive to insure. If anything were to come of this proposal for an unsubsidized buy-in it has all the makings of yet another neoliberal wealth transfer scheme that may or may not result in actual access to affordable healthcare. It's no more a step in the direction of universal publicly funded, publicly administered health insurance that provides access to comprehensive healthcare than the ACA (private insurance, privatized Medicaid, privately funded copays, deductibles, and out-of-network costs) has been.
are the privatized Medicare Advantage thingies
what they offer as Medicare Supplement Plans F, or Medigap plans as they are offered by many insurance companies? They are not cheap and as I understand it not publicly funded.
No. Medicare pays (generally
No. Medicare pays (generally speaking) 80% of covered services. You get this coverage through "original" Medicare, the public program, or through private insurers offering (generally speaking) the same coverage as Medicare Advantage. If you have original Medicare you can get supplemental/Plan F/Medigap private insurance to cover the other 20%. Medicare Advantage policies cover the 20% and I think can also offer additional coverage. For a long time Medicare Advantage was costing the government 14% more than original Medicare, but the ACA did place some controls on that.
thank you very much for the explanation. /nt
Since we're becoming eligible
within the next year, I'm up to my eyebrows in literature about Part A, Part B, Part C, and Part D!!!
Frankly, after reading about FSC's plan to include Medicare in the ACA Exchanges, (if Hacker knows what he's talking about), we may not even enroll in Medicare.
At least, not until we're absolutely forced to do so.
I'll let folks know what Medicare says, about this (being enrolled in a private plan, Traditional Medicare, and a Medigap supplemental policy, at the same time).
I could be wrong, but my 'guess' is that we won't be able to carry a supplemental Medigap policy, at the same time that we are enrolled in an employer-sponsored group health plan.
(Which will determine whether or not we risk enrolling in Medicare; or wait, until we have no other feasible options.)
One thing we do know--we absolutely don't want anything to do with a voucherized Medicare plan.
Thank goodness, we've been forewarned about Medicare Advantage--that option is completely off the table.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
It's a mess
Possibly we're heading to a day when no person has the same coverage as any other person...ACA, Medicaid, Part F/no Part F, CHIP.... Anyway, you're probably already checking this, but I think I have some memory that if an employee or dependent is eligible for Medicare the employer can?? must?? stop offering their regular group coverage, but can alternatively offer group coverage for Medicare Advantage, supplements, or prescription drug plans.
In our case, marym, I'm eligible to be dually enrolled
in Mr M's group health insurance plan, as his spouse. (I've checked with both Medicare, and with his Human Resource Department.)
But, Medicare (not talking about supplemental Medigap--strictly the base Traditional Medicare plan) will be my 'secondary' insurer. Which is not great, since the group health plan has the higher deductible.
Since I have yet to decide upon 'which' Medigap Insurance provider/insurer that I'm going with (yet), I haven't asked a provider if they will allow me to carry their Medigap policy, while I'm still enrolled in an employer-sponsored group health insurance plan.
I'd like to think the answer will be 'yes.' But, somehow, I doubt it.
What I do know is that you can still get 'guaranteed' enrollment (meaning, not underwritten or rated according to health considerations) at a later age than age 65, if you've continually been enrolled in an employee-sponsored group health plan. IOW, you're not penalized, for the delay (if you wait until age 68, for instance) because you've remained enrolled in a group plan.
Also, I will get Medicare coverage a month before my 65th birthday (if I take it)--because my birth date is the first day of the month!
Hope all that makes sense.
Oh, totally agree about everyone having a 'different' Medicare plan. To think that before the Fiscal Commission edict--to slash the safety net--we actually looked forward to enrolling in Medicare. No more.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
redacted (double post) /nt
Test Audio Only! (Will be redacted)
Edited: Redacted as indicated above.
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Yo, JtC! I'm curious--is it common for 'iframe' audio
or video not to show up on 'Preview,' but post correctly upon 'Saving?'
Please disregard, if you're covered up with work.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Hey, marym--a hearty 'welcome.' I recognize you from FDL,
from your concise and cogent comment.
(I believe--correct me, if I'm wrong.)
Yes, I understand that Medicare Advantage is a privatized version (if you will) of Medicare--with an enrollment of approximately one quarter of Medicare beneficiaries.
But, apparently, neoliberals aren't going to stop at just the Part C Medicare Advantage, and/or Part D RX Plans.
According to none other than Jacob Hacker--the Dems' go-to neoliberal health care policy guru--FSC is likely talking about making Medicare available in the ACA Health Exchanges.
This will allow for the eventual voucherization of Medicare.
(Per Congressional testimony of former Secretary of Treasury, Timothy Geithner.)
Since I can't seem to get the Hacker clip to post here, I will probably attach the audio to a Tweet to Bernie's campaign (assuming that I can do so), and then post the Tweet here.
Here's what Jacob Hacker, the so-called 'father of the public option,' recently had to say about a Medicare Buy-In,
If you recall, the Ryan/Wyden Medicare Voucher Plan allowed seniors to choose between Traditional Medicare, and private health care plans in the ACA Health Exchanges.
Great to see you here! Hope you stick around to discuss this latest development, as the details unfold.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Medicare privatization
Busted!
I can well believe that's in the plan. At one point a few years ago during some Grand Bargain/Bowles Simpson/whatever discussions Durbin was floating the idea of raising the Medicare eligibililty age. His concession was that maybe it had to wait a few years till the ACA exchanges were up and running for these older people to buy private insurance. All variations on the same theme - privatization, looting of the commons, upward transfer of wealth.
My sense as well, they will dangle higher premiums
for everyone!!
I am two years away from medicare, still covered by NY state employee retirement system. NY would be happy to dump me. If IRRC, raising Medicare two years after Social Security kicks in is on the table again. So raising the possibility that cash-strapped states would dump their group coverage at 65, SS starts at 67 now? A two-year medi-gap at a convenient die-off point.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
riverlover, an 'unsubsidized' monthly Medicare premium
for 'younger' seniors, age 55-64, would cost approximately $600.
At this time, FSC refuses to divulge many details. However, experts and reporters are inclined to think she is referring to this type of plan, because of her past proposals for Medicare 'buy-ins,' as well as WJC's past 'buy in' proposals.
(I'll be posting an excerpt of WJC's SOTU address in the late 1990s, which included his proposal.)
The $600 premium is the CBO estimate in 2009. It seems that it would most likely be higher, today. (Per Vox.)
I'll be posting a few articles about this at EB over the next couple weeks.
Apparently, FSC's plan has been dubbed, "Medicare For Many."
It's easy to find articles about it with a simple browser search--although, I did change the search terms a bit, to include Medicare, Medicare proposals, Medicare For Many, etc. plus Hillary . . ..)
It's our job to ferret out all the details, before endorsing any plan, IMO.
Have a good one.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Ummmmm, did you really think
Ummmmm, did you really think that older poors merited more affordable health care? They're poors! Some of whom may be... those discoloured people.
Vote against both evils - vote Green!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Can't tell if you're addressing me,
or someone else. If you're not, please disregard this reply.
But, if you are, I have no idea what you're saying.
I said nothing about 'older poors,' or 'discoloured people.' (Aside from mentioning that the 'buy-in' applies to those ages 55 to 64, as opposed to regular Medicare beneficiaries, who are age 65+).
I simply made reference to the fact that an unsubsidized Medicare Premium would 'likely' be too expensive for many low and middle/moderate income seniors.
Makes sense to me.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
sad day
Took my Bernie sticker off the car and the sign from the yard. Appreciate what he's done but associating with HRC in any supportive capacity is too much for me. When he said HRC won the nomination fair and square, I knew it was close to time but this rah rah Hillary stuff is where I draw my line.
I'm leaving mine on my vehicle and adding #NeverHillary
If I can remember where I put it. Grrr.
Had roast at my Trump supporting mom and stepdad's today. They absolutely hate Hillary, but haven't a bad thing to say about Bernie. They agreed that if Shills pulls her electoral theft here in Texas in the GE, there will be riots.
Now I'm going to find that bumper sticker!
Note Bernie's careful
Note Bernie's careful phrasing - my faith still Berns.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Voting Integrity Down Voted 76-81
>> AMENDMENT NUMBER 89 HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN. AMENDMENT NUMBER 138 SPONSORED BY NANCY JACOBSON ON PAGE 17, LINE 11. THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT IS TO DELETE THE FOLLOWING, ENDING PARTISAN AND RACIAL GERRYMANDERING AND IN THE SENTENCE AFTER THE WORD HOLIDAY, THEN ADD THE SENTENCES WE WILL BRING IN INTO PARTISAN AND RACIAL GERRYMANDERING NATIONWIDE BY SUPPORTING STATE REDISTRICTING STANDARDS SIMILAR TO THOSE ADOPTED IN FLORIDA AND BY REMOVING REDISTRICTING FROM THE POLITICAL PROCESS THROUGH INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING COMMISSIONS. DEMOCRATS UNDERSTAND THAT PUBLIC CONFIDENCE IN OUR ELECTION PROCESS IS CRITICAL TO INCREASING VOTER PARTICIPATION. WE WILL IMPROVE THE INTEGRITY AND SECURITY OF OUR VOTING SYSTEMS AND PROCEDURES BY SUPPORTING STRONG VOTING EQUIPMENT STANDARDS, TESTING, AUDIBLE PAPER TRAILS, AND RANDOM AUDITS.
From the Light House.
Stein needs a dynamic partner to run with her.
I have suggested Nina Turner. Actually, I suggested this to both Jill and Nina.
If Jill is able to accept the invitation to Steven's todo on the Saturday before the convention, we might have Jill and Nina in the same place for a period of time.
Maybe we could get them both in a room, perhaps long enough to schedule a date for a serious discussion.
I know that both these ladies are coming out of left field, but I think they might be dynamite together.
ETA: Bernie would be better of course but . . . .
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
I'm reading not a single person spoke in favor . . .
of the TPP. Also, Clinton took the position during the campaign that she was opposed to the TPP.
Sadly it comes as no surprise that she would just flat out lie about her actual position and intentions.
If the lame ducks pass the TPP, I'll never vote democrat
ever again. Period.
The real SparkyGump has passed. It was an honor being your human.
That is exactly when it is
That is exactly when it is going to pass. I guess if we took to the streets before, it could have an impact. I really don't understand why we are not in the streets about so many issues.
I recall read musings from so
I recall reading musings from so many, wondering why Occupy didn't settle on one issue, rather than being a disparate group of citizens joining together for so very many individual reasons. Thing was, they wanted democracy, which would have taken care of such issues.
Vote against both evils - vote Green!
Edited to change a tense missed in a sentence under construction.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Maybe some are not in the streets because of the
militarization of police?
Thousands have been protesting over a wide range of issues around the country, but often do not get media coverage that goes national ie just saw this posted on FB
Was interested to learn in ghonsit post
in the comments that Israelis had trained police in US and that a program funneled many soldiers from the Obama wars into police departments in exchange for funding for them.
Police here in Paris have been using terror emergency laws to stop protests, but that has not stopped the French from legitimate protest entirely, and should not stop us?
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
Lol, under off-shored
Lol, under off-shored corporate rule established under the TPP et al, why would your vote for corporate management matter?
Vote against both evils - vote Green!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
well
I try to keep in mind that when the Citigroup-written provision allowing the FDIC to again insure derivatives was voted upon, 122 Dems voted against, and 70 for.
That's been my guide ever since when remembering what percentage of the Democratic Party is on 'our' side.
Given that all but 3 Repigs voted for that heinous provision, I'd say we are well-fucked on the lame-duck passage of TPP.
Democrats....
Busily making themselves redundant.........again.
And people wonder why there are so many unaffiliated voters.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Can the Dem party mutate again?
The political revolution continues
God, I hope that's a T-cell or B-cell
but more likely an ovum.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Bernie In Sellout Mode? Black Tuesday Is Coming.
Say it ain't so Bernie.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bernie-sanders-allies-lose-a-figh...
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
What were you expecting?
He does have to go back to being a US Senator.
Can he come out of this process as a more powerful figure in the senate than when he first announced? I would hope so.
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
Yes, that's one way to look at it.
Hate to see him lose his religion to Hellery. But...
Yeah if he doesn't endorse, he will probably lose his committee chair positions.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
My opinion
Bernie earned political capital by garnering millions of votes. He now has a national constituency, he no longer just represents the people of Vermont.
How does he spend that political capital?
Well.... spending a lot of it on the platform is not my first choice. But I do expect his exiting from campaign mode to result in more power than he had 2 years ago.
Agreed, he will face repercussions.
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
Does he really have to go back being Senator?
Why? He is 74 years old. He can as well say, President or bust. I am going independent and work with the movement's folks to give them a leading voice. He could say "I am tired of lip service from Clinton supporting Democrats" and say "I can't push you to change your policies from within, so I will push you to change from the outside". Too many tricky things in the small print. Folks will not get them and see them as what they are, support for the moneyed powerful corporate financiers.
There are always these shadow "democrats famililar with"
this or that.
Anonymous sources = Clinton spinner, until demonstrated as something else. So....
I'll be happy to see it turn into a hollow rumor
we'll see in 2 days I guess.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
yup
These are the same 'sources' that kept saying there was 'talk' of 'dropping out'.
I do understand that Bernie might eventually endorse $$Hillary, but I suspect it'll coincide with concessions made by her to Bernie's supporters.
And yes, I believe that Bernie knows she's a liar with no intention of keeping any promises made to anybody. But for Bernie to continue to be the guy who is always right, he has to prove that her and her D.C. allies are liars, by coming back in 12-18 months and saying 'this is exactly what we expected from the Democratic Party; unscrupulous treachery, and they've proven us right'.
Bernie is in a tough spot right now, if he can be made to appear completely unreasonable, the powers-that-be in the party will use that as all the excuse they need to leave his issues and his movement on the outside looking in. By cooperating to a degree, he will make it clear that it is they who continue to break their promises to the progressive left.
And I have absolutely no doubt that they will.
Great analysis
and conclusion. I agree.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
They have already done that in Orlando
Where damn near every plank or amendment favored by Sanders Dems has been summarily dismissed come vote time.
12 to 18 months? Hell no, he can throw it in their faces in Philly later this month...
That verbiage allows $
That verbiage allows $$Hillary to 'fix' the problems with TPP instead of opposing it.
You know, just like 'Bankruptcy Reform' was 'fixed' to her satisfaction.... (eyeroll)
$$Hillary's 'fixes' are analogous to guaranteeing that every vacationer's car is thoroughly searched at the border, while 50 18-wheelers full of Heroin speed right on through, because 'incremental improvements' and 'realistic goals'.
Heroin? You forgot young humans.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I didn't forget
But $$Hillary has those flown in fresh each morning.
They make the best Soylent Green Egg-White Omelette.