In order for Sanders to meet his pledge to do everything he can to prevent a Trump Presidency he now has no choice...
But to break free from the Democratic Party and do a third party run with the Greens.
That is literally the ONLY thing he can do to maximize the chances of Trump not being elected.
This mishandling of federal documents issue is just ONE scandal that Hillary has hanging over her head. There are many others as well but the most potentially damning, if not legally at least politically, is her Foundation and the Pay 2 Play scandal.
Clinton simply cannot win in the General. She is already polling horribly and it's only going to get worse. Her trustworthiness is in the toilet and her likability ratings are lower than frigging Jar-Jar's for FSM's sake! (and that is saying something!)
So, since Bernie is indeed a man of his word, we need to remind him of his pledge and that this is the only real way he can truly work to make sure that his pledge is met. I think this needs to be repeated relentlessly across the blogosphere in the leadup to the the convention if for no other reason than to give the SD's one more thing to worry about.
With the negatives of all the other candidates in the field Sanders/Stein ticket would have a significant chance of winning in what would at that point be a 4 way race.
Johnson will pull a lot of the Moderate Conservative, Trump will pull the RWNJ's/Teabaggers and Clinton will pull the NeoCon's and ever shrinking pool of party loyalists.
That leaves a LOT of moderate and progressive voters out there ripe for the plucking as well as a vast amount of independents that are completely disgusted with the state of both parties and a nation that wants to see a change, any change.
Not sure what else he could do. Endorsing Hillary won't mean squat and won't prevent Trump from being president so what other options/avenues would you say are open to him?
Just my thoughts, I apologize if they were a bit more rambling in nature than usual, I am just a tad worked up for some reason... 
Comments
I can't agree
that a third party run by Bernie would prevent a Trump presidency. I suspect this is Bernie's view as well. There are way too many variables to say with any certainty that it may not have the exact opposite effect. I doubt it would and the chances of her winning get slimmer every hour with the never ending stream of HRC scandals and doing/saying stupid stuff by her and her campaign. Still, I have to agree that Bernie running as a Green is worth the risk. Bernie running with Jill Stein would definitely make for a very interesting campaign and election if nothing else. I don't think Bernie will go along because I don't think he is willing to be wrongly blamed for a Trump presidency. Hilary is doing quite well at ensuring a Trump presidency all by herself.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
If Hillary loses, they will blame him no matter what.
It is the old Ralph Nader bull shit updated to 2016.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Fortune favors the bold.
Really, what does he have to lose? Sure, there a lot of variables in the air, but does he really want to be known as the guy that gave the election to the criminal because he was afraid of the con man?
This whole situation reminds me of a photo from the McGovern campaign I once saw, where a female supporter is holding up a sign at a campaign rally that reads, "A choice, not an asshole." That's what this entire election is about. Give the people a real choice. If Bernie refuses to run third party with the Greens, a chunk of his supporters will break off to Hillary, more will vote Green anyway, some will vote for Trump, and a large number will just stay home. If he's afraid of being a spoiler, those fears are unfounded with Gary Johnson in the race.
Bernie would start at 18% in the polls vs. Hillary and Trump in the low 30s. He's closed bigger gaps in the primary alone, so why would he be non-viable in that match up? The one thing that would terrify the Democratic Party and make those plutocrats take his demands seriously is the threat of a Green Party run in November.
You just earned a slow building golf clap from me....
I couldn't agree more with everything you said.
At this point what does it matter?
It's now a vote of Evil Vs Asshole.
I gotta go Asshole if those are my only two choices when I really think about it...
At least Assholes have little luck accomplishing anything without a lot of other people to do the actual work...
Evil? Evil never sleeps...
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
It looks to me that the media will feature her as the
preordained winner, just as they did in primary. It might even work.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
If the primaries
are any indicator, who ever beats clinton will have to truly beat her by double digits because she will steal 8 or 9% of the vote. And I'm not trying to be funny.
What's really sad is I never for a minute thought you were
trying to be funny...
So... Soooooo sad for our system right now.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Bernie is a US Senator
He will conduct himself as such.
As much as I wanted him to run in the General, I know its an emotional reaction on my part, I think you're right. He'll sit tight and head back to the Senate.
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
Bernie gave more than we are willing to accept
He knew what he was risking by joining the Dems and he had a pretty good idea what he might get. The fact that he is willing to pay that price shows both an honorable nature - and a level of shrewdness that the DNC still does not get. He can't make us vote for HRC, so he can safely be the fall guy for us. They will snatch the bag from his hands and find that it is empty.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
You are probably right....
but that being said I see little repercussion if he does both.
The Democratic party will NEVER forgive him for so publicly pointing out their flaws and actually getting it noticed this time.
They will extract a price for his temerity and it will be that they will now, at least the rank and file DNC/3rd Wayers, make him a pariah regardless.
He will no longer be supported for committee positions and such by Clinton, who would be the effective new head of the DNC. I am sure he is already written in in sharpie in her enemies list.
So what really does he have to lose?
The people of N.H. will continue to send him to the senate regardless of what the Dems think, so I am failing to see anything but upsides to him calling them out on their shit at this point.
He would gain tons of respect and acumen that he could then pass on to a third/new party, and that's what we need more than anything right now, and lets face it, it's not like Bernie has more than one more Senate run left in him anyway at his age most likely so why not go out making the absolute most impact towards progress that you can?
Bernie has never been a fan of incrementalism, so I just can't see why he would accept that now when he has literally nothing left that they can take from him.
Then again, I also have had about 5 beers already so I could totally be missing something obvious and talking out my ass right now, lol!
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
My comment is far from an emotional reaction.
The emotional side of me says he should go out guns blazing - fuck the consequences. Strangely the rational, reasoned side says the same thing. There is little to lose. I think there is a reasonable chance HRC completely screws the pooch and loses. She looks to be barely holding the campaign together and the general has yet to actually begin. It's not unlike a fighter going into a clinch from round three to fifteen. Trump is a buffoon but he knows how to pound on weak opponents which pretty much is defined by HRC.
A three or four way race is a big unknown but I do think Bernie with Green support has a chance to pull it off. He is a fierce fighter while being principled and having ideas that connect with people once they understand them. I think it's well worth taking a shot as a third party candidate.
What I think is also completely worthless. The only vote in this is Bernie's. I suspect he is still playing the long game. There is risk in betting on a third party victory when there is no third party. Yet? There isn't even a coalition. Building a team while in a real nasty multi-dog fight for the presidency is monumental but also winning is unprecedented. I wouldn't ever bet against Bernie failing at the task if he tries. I think he's more concerned with building the team that will eventually break the stranglehold our two corrupt political parties have on us all. I get the sense he is completely invested in building a movement first and doesn't want to risk what he's spent his whole life building. That is very selfless rather than the idea he's only slinking back to the Senate. Giving up is selfish in his world. Or that's how I look at it. Maybe we'll know some day.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
I say his options are to continue as he is.
Working to get a decent Dem platform that can be used to hold their feet to the fire as well as serve as a mission statement for other real progressives. HRC came out today with a free college plan based on income levels. I consider it a ploy to get millennial votes not that she will a real effort to make it happen (or it could be the bone she throws progressives while she privatizes social security).
Another thing he is currently doing is helping lead the revolution, and we need him more out here than we do in the White House (although, it would be nice I'm 99% sure it is not going to happen). If he ran as third party now, he would lose some of his credibility as well as end up being marginalized.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
The Platform is useless kabuki. It's literally meaningless words
on paper that nobody cares about.
And I think he's going to be marginalized no matter what. In fact he's already marginalized: the media (still) don't report on him except as it pertains to his endorsement (or not) of Hillary, and he was never not marginalized in the Democratic Party. I also think he loses more credibility backing a party he's spent the last year blasting as corrupt than he loses by doing something actually revolutionary and striking out with a third party or as an independent.
Only if we allow it to be. Voters have spent the last 40 years
giving away their rights by not enforcing them, and the platform is another right that voters can choose to ignore and call useless or they can get behind it and tell the elected that if the items on it are not acted on, then they will not be here next term.
I am more than tired of the word "kabuki" to describe the it-can't-be-done attitude of people who are not willing to fight. It so echoes HRC's "it will never, ever happen."
He has not been marginalized by those in power. They are very worried about him. Most of the people who I hear doing it claim to be his supporters.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
The problem with utilizing the platform in that way
is that it plays into the litany of excuses that Hillary has already crafted during this campaign. How do we hold accountable a party that refuses to act on its stated priorities when the reasoning will simply be that the platform represents long term goals and that the Democrats have done what we can for now, so voters should trust that the party has their best interests in mind and give them their votes in 2018, 2020, and beyond. You know, incrementalism at its worst. That justification has already been put into play and the bulk of Democratic voters have accepted it as truth.
The threat of withholding votes only works if people actually do it en masse. The public is fickle. Right now, we're seeing an election with two candidates that the majority of Americans actively despise, and there's never going to be a better time to stand up and say "enough is enough." To me, the platform is "kabuki," in the sense that it represents the kind of smokescreen and token offerings that we get from Democrats to distract us from the routine betrayals of espoused values that happen on a regular basis. If we say that simple platform changes will be enough to win our votes, when its been relegated to mere rhetoric in recent political history, then I think that we are settling for far too little in a time of record discontent.
Thank you
I am tired of reading these platitudes that we need to "work within the Dem Party to change things" and get all gung-ho about this "platform". That document does not now--nor has it ever--been a RIGHT that any American citizen has. What an unbelievable statement to make, I hope its author misspoke.
These alleged Democrats don't give a damn about the rest of us. They will never give a damn about the rest of us. If they did, Bernie Sanders would be the presumptive Democratic nominee and Hillary Clinton would be house-hunting in her next grifter-burg.
Couldn't agree more. A right? Hardly. It's a document
prepared by appointees in a high-school slap fight of a "debate." It's bordering on negligence for Sanders or anyone else to suggest it's something important.
I did not misspeak.
See my post below. I do not believe I ever said anything about working within the Dem party. A platform such as Sanders et al are crafting is not limited to the Dem Party. Consider it the Revolution's Magna Carta.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
LOL, I am not saying vote for them or HRC, just get the platform
in place so we have something to build on. (There is no way in heaven or hell or anywhere in between that I will ever vote for HRC.) Consider the platform a mission statement. Heads of non-profit organizations change all the time, but the mission statement remains to lend guidance. It is something that the Revolution (inside and outside the party need). It is a matter of keeping eyes on the prize...this is what we are working for. Otherwise, what you have is disorganization. This is part of Sanders' strategy. If people can see clearly what we are working toward, it eliminates a lot of guesswork and people heading off in a million and one directions.
Yes, IF HRC is elected she and the Dems will drag their feet becasue they have NO intention of following through on the platform. That is an accepted fact, or at least it should be by anyone who has been paying attention. It is not for them. It is for us. The next two years are going to be a make or break time for the Revolution and people need to have that carrot (platform) out there to stay focused.
Some of the support that HRC has now is soft. Ignoring the platform will give a us a good weapon to primary her in four years. Her inaction will lose her some of that soft support. If Trump is elected, it will provide a way to determine whether a future Independent or Dem candidate fits what the nation needs.
Politicians may not be afraid now, but they will learn...some sooner than others.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
The Platform has never been worth the paper it's
printed on, so to speak, with respect to the effort at implementation. It is one of the least important things to worry about as far as political action is concerned. It may be used as Sanders is trying to expose hypocrisy, or as Clinton is succeeding by asserting her power, but otherwise it's meaningless document that serves no purpose other than to puff up the egos of committee members.
And my use of "kabuki" has nothing to do with my determination to do something. It's purely descriptive of what as platform fights are: theater meant to entertain and distract folks from real action. Frankly Sanders' insistence on making the Platform more important an issue than it merits is as boring and irrelevant as Hillary's blasting Trump all the time. It makes me think the arguments BAR and certain socialist groups had April of last year that he was gonna end up sheepdogging had more merit than I gave them at the time.
If Sanders doesn't run third party or independent it will make me regret maxing out my donations and running canvassing groups every week instead of paying attention to my family. I didn't give his campaign $2700 and literally bits of my life for him to start making nice with the assholes who've helped destroy whatever semblance of democracy we had left. The Democratic Party is not salvageable. "Changing it from within" requires at least as much effort as starting a third party, or even more frankly, so why not go Indy or third party instead ?
Apparently, not a lot of people here spent
an extensive time work for non-profit organizations; although, most companies, corporations and other organizations--most notably educational institutions--also use mission statements to focus their direction for maximum effect. That is exactly what Sanders et al are doing with the platform.
Maybe some people think that 50 or so disparate groups should just go on working on their own rather than bringing all concerned under one big umbrella. We can see how well that has been working. As Sanders has said repeatedly, it will take millions of people. Those people are going to need direction, and Sanders is working on providing that. The platform is NOT limited to the Dem Party.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Mission statements only matter if your mission statement
and your actual mission are the same.
Which is not the case with the Democratic Party as has already been made readily apparent this season.
They.
Are.
LIARS.
Stop trusting them, it's not good for anyone except their owners...
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
The mission statement is NOT for the
Dem Party. It is for the Revolution. I am tired of typing the same thing over and over and no one listening, so I am not going to waste my breath any more. Those who stick with the Revolution will figure it out sooner or later.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
You're assuming "The Revolution" will occur through the
Democratic Party. That's debatable at best.
That's my exact point, sorry for not expressing it fully.
The Democratic party is no longer salvageable if it ever was.
At least in my opinion.
Sometimes a house is so riddles with Termites the only logical choice is to pull out what is worth salvaging, burn the rest down and build a new house on the ashes...
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Statements of Mission and "visions" fell out of favor
…in the US some time ago. Now, the government can have no long term plans because it's too communist. Like the extensive and ambitious Five and Ten year plans of the Chinese.
Of course, the government has been so reduced that it cannot achieve the large dreams of great civilizations anymore, nor can they be funded.
Now, the US just jumps from land mine to land mine as it reacts wildly to manufactured "terror" — the perfect incubator for unaccountability and corruption.
The Platform is not a mission statement. A mission statement
is pithy and succinctly describes a larger goal. "This campaign is to transform the political landscape by empowering people to overcome corrupt establishment politics and corporate control of government in order to enact laws that benefit the 99%" is a mission statement.
A bullet point list of vague policy notes might be an agenda for materializing a mission statement but it is not itself one.
And in this case it's a particularly ineffective agenda given the array of people who simply will ignore it if they don't agree with it (most of the Democratic Party).
They have already rejected his platform on all the most
critical pieces with convenient 6/7 voting splits.
We need to accept the fact that the Democratic Party is NOT going to seriously pursue progressive platform items in a time frame that will make a difference regardless of what they may say, feet to the fire or not....
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
I hope he will
I think it would be great if Bernie walked out of the convention taking his delegates and go Green....but I don't see it happening. He has a plan (I think), and we still just have to wait and see.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Completely and Strongly Agree Alphalop!
I felt like this back in April when it became clear that the DNC and media were in
collusion to coronate her heinous.
In fact I started A Change. org petition stating same.
The idea being; Since the DNC had rigged the primary, they had voided any agreement Bernie had previously made.
In addition, it would already be in place to give Bernie the optics to take his majority demographic with him.
https://www.change.org/p/faith-white-free-senator-bernie-sanders?recruit...
It never got much traction then, b/c
move on and most others kept on with the party line, "It Violates Our Policy" Or some variation thereof~
I continue to feel it would land Bernie in the WH and send the clearest message from the REVOLUTION!
Thank you for saying this!!!
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” ~Benjamin Franklin
here's wishing he'd run as an indie.
i really believe he could win it all if he did.
You forget the Clinton supporters' secret weapon:
That, and Donald Trump is running no campaign whatsoever. Seriously. Sanders could do anything he wanted to fulfill his pledge.
“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon
Dropping the dem registration
Oh yes, also, the #dumpthedems is brilliant!
I already had that notion b/c in the general one does not need to vote party registration specific.
But a mass movement away from dems would make it real clear how the Yuge Bernie demographic feels about how the dem party has operated.
When I checked my registration after two weeks had gone by "somehow" it was still listed as dem, even though I put in the change weeks ago.
Ah well, it will give me the opportunity to noin the
#dumpthedems movement on 7/29~
Though I would advise all to keep on it after dumping; it would appear they may or may not be "guided" by voters wishes.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” ~Benjamin Franklin
I'd look at it like this
What if they're being flooded with change requests?
What if they're being flooded with change requests?
That would be grand!
Good point!
Nevertheless, it would be a good idea to follow up with a search to be sure.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” ~Benjamin Franklin
Did Lunachickie really just find a silver lining?
lol! Just kidding don't hurt me!
You know I love ya.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
I don't care if Bernie just
returns to the Senate. I am just hoping he will not see fit to endorse her, ever. Let's all keep in mind, the convention hasn't happened yet. This thing has legs and they are running as fast as they can to cut them off. We must not allow them to quash her criminality. Otherwise, we are complicit. Bring it up to people you know or whatever. It needs to be discussed by we, the people. They are counting on us looking the other way.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
You said it RA! It ain't over till the Shrill Lady Swears in...
And that's gonna be enough to get the next wave of this revolution surging.
Trump OR Clinton, we got a long row to hoe and while a Clinton one may make it more painful, it doesn't change the fact that we got a lot of work still ahead of us regardless.
And I for one still haven't written off Sanders.
I was wondering earlier, but figured it was too much grasping at threads, but what if the FBI only recommended not to seek charges on this because they having something bigger in their arsenal for during the general?
Something concerning the foundation maybe?
I mean, at the end of the day he is a Republican and even if he is about integrity, this would still let him justify it as, "Hey, I still eventually recommended charges against her AND got a republican presidency out of it."
I dunno, I am too prone to idle speculation, but so much of the stuff I speculate about seems to happen anymore, lol!
It's kinda odd and creepy at times...
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
You might be right, Alpha.
There is lots going on we have no idea. There needs to be lots of pressure though. The lid needs to be blown off.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
I No Longer Care
I will support and vote for Bernie if he is on any ticket and if not I will vote for Jill Stein.
If this gives the White House to the Rethugs, so be it because it obviously makes little difference which Oligarch is in the White House.
Time to vote conscience not party
(No subject)