Well ... this is Disturbing
Shocking is a good word for it ... on SOOOO many levels ...
SHOCK VIDEO: Computer Programmer Testifies He Coded Computers To Rig Elections
Video link
Published on Jun 11, 2016
When campaign minions aren’t fudging the physical vote count, computers, tasked with tallying the vote,
are susceptible to hacking. In 2006, the documentary Hacking Democracy,
exposed Diebold and their role in rigging elections with their electronic
voting machines. Clinton Eugene “Clint” Curtis is an American attorney,
computer programmer and ex-employee of NASA and ExxonMobil,
who also exposed election hacking. He is notable chiefly for making
a series of whistleblower allegations about his former employer and
about Republican Congressman Tom Feeney, including an allegation
that in 2000, Feeney and Yang Enterprises requested Curtis’s
assistance in a scheme to steal votes by inserting fraudulent
code into touch screen voting systems. Curtis is seen in the video
below testifying under oath in front of the U.S. House Judiciary
Members in Ohio. He tells the members how he was hired by Congressman
Tom Feeney in 2000 to build a prototype software package that would
secretly rig an election to sway the result 51 / 49 to a specified side.
Well, thank you Mr Curtis for that eye-opening testimony.
Disturbing, but perhaps not anymore disturbing that this ... which disenfranchised MILLIONS of people, out front and in the open.
And hardly anyone in the National Media blinks an eye about it ... Afterall they have "Winners" to declare!
2.5 Million Votes Still Not Counted in California!
Video link
Published on Jun 10, 2016
More than 2.5 million ballots or 42% of votes have yet to be counted from California’s primary election. 720,000 provisional ballots, 1,800,000 vote-by-mail ballots have yet to be tallied. State election officials have until July 5 to submit their final presidential delegate results and until July 8 to submit results for all other offices. Hillary Clinton was declared the winner of California’s primary and will likely remain the presumptive nominee after all the remaining votes are tallied. Mark Sovel and Nik Zecevic take a closer look at California’s uncounted ballots and on the Lip News.
42% percent of California Voters -- NOW they don't REALLY MATTER ... now do they ???
Afterall, they had the "Illusion of Voting" -- and isn't that what "counts" most?
And they have the illusion of News Reporting too ...
Bernie Sanders Supporters Await Full Ballot Count In California,The State He Might Have Won
Video link
Published on Jun 11, 2016
“A potential one million or more, maybe two million, I even today heard three million ballots still to be counted”, estimates Paul Mitchell with the Political Data firm which tracks political and election trends.
Thursday, during a post-election panel held by the organization “Future of California Elections”, election experts spoke about California’s accomplishments such as record voter registration, and need for improvement such as making sure no party preference voters... a voter block believed to favor Sanders could easily vote for president.
Welcome to your {cough} "democracy" America! ... Oh Well, it was nice while it lasted ...
Shocking, Disturbing, Disenfranchising aren't the only Illusive adjectives that come to mind, now are they?
I hope we enjoy ... our Media-induced-Coma -- were gonna be there a while ...
Comments
Tips for Transparency
Tips for Accountability.
Tips for Counting Every Damn Vote!
As a software developer for over 35 years...
there could never be a better device to use to rig an election than a touchscreen voting system. I wrote a very lengthy diary over at TOP years ago detailing how easy it would be to fudge the election results and at the same time hide the fact that any manipulation was taking place. I won't link to it but anyone interested could find it in my diary history there.
As a programmer my approach was not to outright steal the election, but rather to help the voter make unintentional mistakes. As long as the vote totals were not the way I want them to turn out, my deceptive programming would kick in. All I want was a slim win, 51-49 is all it takes. The touch screens are designed in such a way that what is the area identified by the screen on where to vote, does not have to correspond to the the portion of the touch screen monitor that actually recognizes where you touched. You can make the box to register a vote for Bernie, or any other candidate one size on the screen and program the computer to recognize a much smaller area of the touch portion to actually record a vote for that person. Touching outside of that are can easily be programmed to record the vote for another candidate.
Touchscreen voting systems should be banned in all elections. Many people do not realize that the manufacturers of these machines consider their software proprietary information that no one can review. They can program anything they want into those machines and no one has a legal right to look at the software code to see what it is actually doing. If given the choice, and if you really want your vote to count, opt for a paper ballot. NEVER vote on one of those machines!
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush
Ballot Initiatives often are
just as deceptive, as those writing the iniative, knowing voters won't go for their horse$h!t, write the initiative so that a "No" vote actually means a Yes for the initiative. sonsabitches.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
The meek *yea right‽*, it will be the Tech-Savvy
remember the hanging chads in Florida 2000?
Someone who voted on one of those machines - essentially a card punch - said when he tried to vote for Al Gore it didn't seem to punch properly - as it if the punch for that selection did not go all the way through the card.
Any election can be tampered with. This will not stop until there are laws, that are enforced, that send people to jail for tampering with elections and that disqualify any candidate that benefits from such tampering.
Indeed! Anyone associated
Indeed! Anyone associated with cheating is automatically disqualified from any win in the Olympics, from horse-racing - but apparently in America (and other banana Republics) not from winning a political office in order to not only cheat the people of their votes but of honest representation, to spread corruption ever further throughout the system, until it has been entirely taken over and government intended to be of, by and for rhe people instead works against the people for the relative few draining the people's wealth, rights and power for themselves alone and refuses to allow any honest representative of The People into public office.
The false results of this Presidential nomination must not be allowed to stand as a 'done deal', or no possibility of change may ever again be possible by peaceful political methods.
If the people of any country refuse to accept a cheated-in 'leader', there is apparently a way of ensuring that the false 'leader' will not be recognized by any other country in the world.
And what sane country would want to have to deal with either of the deceptive/word-breaking/cheating psychopaths offered by the American two-Party trade-off system?
Vote against both evils - if Bernie's nomination win is denied, vote for the non-corporate Jill Stein, and vote for planetary survival.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
See also this video; it's long but worth it
Protecting Our Elections
Published on May 29, 2016
Protecting Our Elections was presented by Bob Fitrakis, Cliff Arnebeck and Lori Grace at Sunrise Center, Corte Madera, CA.
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960
Thanks! That 2 1/2 hour long
Thanks! That 2 1/2 hour long Protecting Our Elections video is an absolute must-watch in entirety!
Among many other things, an American is named as having worked on stealing an election in another country and practicing for this November's US election - and he's now a campaign manager for Trump?
Will this be the flame-belching/laser-eyed battle between the pair as portrayed in a cartoon posted by (drat, can't recall who, now) in out-cheating each other for the US Presidency? This competition for the Most-Corrupt Psychopath award of winning global management control through the US Presidency is just too, too painfully appropriate...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Fishy stuff in electronic voting
There has been fishy stuff going on in electronic voting going back to at least a few senate elections in 2002. Minnesota and Georgia. Mondale and ?
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Bush/Gore
they've been stolen ever since.
Code can do anything
the customer wants it to do.
We need open inspecting of Voter Code on a regular basis.
Code Rigging to mis-represent the actual Vote, needs to be treated as a "Serious Matter"
-- not as CT.
If it can happen, it will happen.
And that, my friend, is a no-brainer in a real democracy.
The only code that should be used should be open sourced.
There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams
I had never really thought of that before, but u are 100% right
In this day and age, the code that counts the votes should be owned and maintained by "we the people" and not anybody else.
~OaWN
open source
software and hardware by law should be common but its not... . A thousand programmers and hardware designers across the country would develop it for free and in a couple weeks with vote traceability of the tally lists by the individual voter at any time easily confirmed via web servers but no... can't have that... gotta have it privatized by nefarious organizations who profit from all of it.
Well...
We need paper ballots with a statistical auditing system. If the paper ballots are counted by a machine, then paper ballots are randomly sampled within a statistical degree of confidence. If the manual count and the electronic count vary within a statistical degree, then it triggers an auto-audit whereby all ballots are manually counted.
Colorado already has a universal mail-in system with paper ballots. The auditing system could be easily implemented - if there is the political will to do so.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
Exactly. n/t
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
UK
Anyone else notice the UK just had a vote, 72% of eligible voters voted, ON PAPER, approx. 34 million votes - counted in several hours, in several different countries all in the UK.
Paper votes.
Minimum 25 year sentence
For anyone involved in any type of voter fraud, disenfranchisement or for that matter any steps to corrupt the vote
I believe the penalty for treason
is death.
Lol, they'd love that, since
Lol, they'd love that, since claiming almost non-existent voter fraud is a major problem has been used as an excuse for disenfranchising voters.
I suspect that electoral fraud is actually the term you meant to use?
Edited because I also suspect that I can't put a coherent sentence together... and I was right!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Question
Back some years ago, probably after the Diebold thing, my county here in Ohio switched back to paper ballots. They aren't the punch tab kind though. These are big, almost light cardboard, sheets with everything printed on them. To vote, you fill in an oval with a black magic marker.
But then, at the end of the process, you tear a tab off the bottom, toss it in a box on the table and feed your ballot into a machine that (supposedly) tabulates your vote. You don't see a read out of how you voted like the computerized machines did. I haven't looked at these machines too carefully so I don't have a name to offer, but I'm assuming they're computerized. Could something like these be rigged as well? Again, you don't see anything showing that your ballot was read correctly.
Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons - For thou art crunchy and good with ketchup
Sounds like what we have in MN
Nice, thick paper, candidate names on both sides; we fill in an oval with a black-ink pen, then run it through the optical scanner, get a "I Voted" sticker, and out the door. The times I go vote I normally do not have to wait in line at all (which is good considering my health issues).
I suspect whether or not the optical scanner can be hacked would depend on whether or not it is connected to an internet system of some kind, or whether it's just plugged into an electrical socket so the light to scan the ballots will work, no way for someone to hack into the system.
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960
can they be rigged as well?
Yes. As one with 25 years plus of electrical/electronic and software engineering experience I know damn well that if there is a will there is a way to rig it. Open source hardware and software is commonplace in the geek world but oddly every piece of equipment regarding voting is privatized. There is no political will to change the crummy nefarious system
MN has paper ballots
We have a history of close elections. The earliest I remember is the gubernatorial race of '62 when I was in high school). How to proceed if the optical scanners have numbers too close (percentage coded into law) means a mandatory hand recount of paper ballots (not just the Franken-Coleman race in '08, but lots of less well-known races within the state), and the state picks up the tab. If the totals are close, but not close enough for a mandatory recount, one side or the other can demand a hand recount, but they pay for it (as Gov Dayton's opponent requested in '10, but the longer the count went on, the more he lost, so he called it off, and had to pay the costs for the recount to that point). We are very used to recounts (they're done in public; anyone can watch), so when close vote totals happen, we patiently await the outcome of the hand count which is done with all due deliberate speed.
I don't know about Georgia, but Minnesota has the least amount of problems with voting that I know of (always paper ballots to recount, we do NOT use e-voting machines, as far as I know; I've never heard of any in the state, at any rate), and we have easy-peasy voter registration, up to and including election day (with proof of residency, of course; options are listed on the SoS web site), and we do not list political party preference on the voter registration forms, so none of the disenfranchisement headaches and deadlines people in other states have had. We just need proof of residency so we know where we have to go to vote. Once registered, our names stay on the printout for that precinct all the time..., unless we move out of the precinct. Then we have to re-register for the new precinct so we'll be on their printout. One MN county (that I know of, because relatives live there) that has a sparse population went to mail-in ballots (like Oregon) a few years ago, and voter participation has increased; they can vote early, too.
Truly, I do wish other states had it as good as MN voter registration and voting!
The only thing I'd change is the messy caucus system since it takes for bloody-ever to get anything accomplished. We need to go to an open primary system. The only good thing I can say about the caucus system this year is that Bernie won by 23%!
Bernie or Bust!!!
EDIT: from the SoS web site, results of the caucus, candidates listed in alphabetical order:
http://electionresults.sos.state.mn.us/Results/CaucusResultsByParty/98?p...
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960
MN has paper ballots,but I'll wager they're tabulated by machine
Minnesota may have paper ballots, but I'll wager they were tabulated by machines in 2002. It's not just the touchscreen machines that are fishy, any machine with software and/or an internet connection is ripe for fraud.
http://www.alternet.org/story/16474/the_theft_of_your_vote_is_just_a_chi...
Thomas Hartmann
"In Minnesota, the Star Tribune reported just a few days before the election (Oct. 30, 2002) that, "Dramatic political developments since Sen. Paul Wellstone's death Friday have had little effect on voters' leanings in the U.S. Senate race, according to a Star Tribune Minnesota Poll taken Monday night. Wellstone's likely replacement on the ballot, former Vice President Walter Mondale, leads Republican Norm Coleman by 47 to 39 percent close to where the race stood two weeks ago when Wellstone led Coleman 47 to 41 percent."
When the computerized machines were done counting the vote a few days later, however, Coleman had beat Mondale by 50 to 47 percent. If Mondale had asked for new chips, would it have made a difference? We'll never know."
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
That's what I said: MN has optical scanners
Paper ballots are run through them.
I have never heard that they are connected to the internet, however. I have always understood that each precinct is responsible for their own counting & totals & verification thereof.
That's something to ask the SoS office.
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960
I believe the software in optical scanners can be manipulated?
My bad, yes you did say optical scanners. I guess I just get a little excited because I'm pretty sure that some fishy stuff has been going on, especially in the 2004 presidential election. But it's been a while since I read up on voter fraud. I used to read a lot about voter fraud, but just kind of accepted it and stop reading.
Minnesota IS much better run than most (including mine, wish I had a governor like Dayton).
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Dayton's nice..., but not perfect
He pushed for the third fucking stadium (at taxpayer's expense, no less!) saying it would provide jobs. Problem is, he didn't say the construction jobs are only temporary from the time construction starts until it is finished. The first two new stadiums were built at taxpayer's expense under the previous administration (Tim fucking Pawlenty).
Then there is the matter of Dayton (and Franken and Klobuchar) being superdelegates. They've all endorsed Clinton, according to the Wiki page about superdelegate endorsements.... My rep & one other endorsed Bernie "because that's the way the voters in my district voted," and each said (in passing) that they probably would not go to the DNC convention in Philly. Hmmmm..., then how the heck do they think their endorsements and/or vote for Bernie will count if they're not in Philly, pray tell?!? Keith Ellison didn't wait for the caucus but endorsed Bernie from the get-go. Two superdelegates (one of them a rep in a different district) haven't endorsed anyone, and the last time I checked, the rest all endorsed Clinton before or during the DNC summer meeting in Aug in Mpls last year.
I'm NOT a happy camper about the superdelegates' Clinton endorsement without checking with the voters first.
Guess it's time to re-check the MN superdelegate names and see if any have switched their positions (search page by two-letter state code and the names will appear in alphabetical order)....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Democratic_Party_superdelegates,_2016
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960
I (being a NY resident) emailed the NY SDs
with a redacted email from some security person to SoS whatshername explaining redacted how to poison NYC drinking water.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I agree.
The US constitution was framed by a group of men who thought the average person was unqualified to select their leaders. We have a republic, not a democracy. The parties politic here have a strangle hold on moving an agenda. If we had the will, we could change the constitution, make it bullet proof from interference by SCOTUS. We need a plan.
As you said, just an illusion. PriceRip asked if we were occupying some corner of the Matrix.
Look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see, and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. Stephen Hawking
Casting
and Counting our Votes,
should not be reserved for the chosen few,
nor their chosen outcome.
Whoever the hell dreamt up the concept of "Provisional Ballots"
ought to hounded into 1% hell,
as fast as humanly possible.
Those too, that "borrow" and implement the idea.
If they're counted every time, they're useful
There are times when provisional ballots are necessary. If a voter doesn't have enough ID, if there are conflicts in where they reside, if they show up at the wrong polling place and don't have time to find the right one, etc. provisional ballots can allow them to cast a vote. Ideally, these ballots are later verified and added to the total. Used properly, they can be a safety net for voters.
The problem lies in rules and guidelines that find reasons to skip counting them. They should always be verified and counted, in every election. Crooks have learned to subvert the intent of provisional ballots to deprive voters of their rights. Unfortunately, both parties are playing this game.
"If you can't eat their food, drink their booze, take their money and then vote against them you've got no business being in Congress."
Especially since a 1% hell
Especially since a 1% hell would include an 8-year Bernie Presidency, with Jill Stein in opposition and a massive wave of true progressives down-ticket in every freaking election throughout eternity.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
I'm so shocked. Not.
The revolt is going to be very ugly, and very violent. Not only is democracy dead, but the number of people who know that is increasing by the day.
Yep. When the revolution actually comes
…we won't need people writing cutesy little messages telling us the revolution is already happening.
We will know.
tle, violence is for mobs and those
who start wars. I support all non-violent actions, including civil disobedience.
Look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see, and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. Stephen Hawking
The vast majority of people advocate non-violent actions,
including me. The problem is that these "powers that be" are making it impossible to do such a thing.
JFK called it right a long time ago--if you make peaceful revolution impossible, violent revolution is inevitable.
luna, the JFK quote, was in written
in the context of Viet Nam days?
Look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see, and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. Stephen Hawking
Ask not what you can do for your country...
…but do ask and consider heavily what your country might do to you.
…The UCSoA - The United Corporate States of America, INC.
Good one - I would just add:
"...but do ask and consider heavily what your country might do, 'and is doing', to you"
Corporations, creations of the government, have superseded the government, and with TPP will finally be able to over rule federal law with ease. We've already seen the attack on the Country of Origin Labeling and that's just a taste of what's in store.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
That quote was from early Viet Nam
before there were any significant demonstrations. I was not alive for Korea, have no idea if there were marches and protests then or whether everyone at home was too busy procreating.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
JFK's statement had nothing to do with Vietnam. It was a
reflection on the historically universal fact that when the ptb fail to provide a route for orderly "social perceived-necessary-and-inevitable change" (hereinafter "revolution" or "revo") it will happen in an unjust and disorderly fashion. It will happen, though, in one fashion or another. In any militarized society, unregulated (unplanned and uncontrollable) change will almost certainly be violent.
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Are you trying to say that doesn't apply now?
I disagree, though I hope I don't live to see it get violent. That would be ugly.
Violence is also for those who FINISH wars.
To me, violence is not a moral position, it's a tactic. I'll use it if I see no other alternative. I don't have to like it.
there are other options
Like demanding every Vote be counted.
Like demanding the Source Code be public record, both immediately after every election.
Armed conflict, is unlikely arrive at either of those results.
you mean whining and stamping your feet?
While they laugh and play Supertramps "You're bloody well right?"
Unfortunately, Jamess, without a functioning Fourth Estate
we are not in any position to shed light on this or demand anything. Dismantling the free press was really a brilliant coup, I have to hand it to the PTB.
When we've had the most blatantly rigged election in our history (managing to blow away even Bush v. Gore in my opinion), with exit polls off of vote counts by double digits, and then you have the media snarking about "conspiracy theorists" and fringe delusions about election fraud - what can you do?
I'm certainly not advocating for violence - I'm a pacifist. But I fear violence will happen eventually since they have removed all other avenues of change. Fair elections - gone. Reporting on loss of fair elections - gone.
So we take it back.
I'd love to, PriceRip
And I'm not suggesting we give up. I just don't know HOW we take it back.
It's just endlessly disheartening, but I SO admire your fighting spirit in the face of these odds! I'm willing to try.
Frustration is the real enemy.
I need to be careful because aphorisms and clichés are not helpful. Unfortunately, much of what passes for communication often appears to fall into those categories. As I have said many times, the key is in the depth and breadth of conviction. Are there really enough people that are concerned with particular issue. Are they committed to do something to effect a change.
I have been asking these questions in various ways, but as of this moment I have not discerned a clear answer to either.
I Am
To both of your questions. At the same time, I'm 68 with disabilities. The best I may be able to do is sit in or offer my body as a shield.
The Failure of Democracy - Taking It Back
When one has made an argument by using a conservative sci-fi
writer's wankings and an ahistorical movie script to illustrate one's point, it hardly seems worth the time and trouble to write a half-page refutation, and I shan't bother to do so. I wrote this reply to your comment specifically to say that if you are willing to advocate violence in this forum, please do so in your own words. Neither Heinlein nor Robin Hood were amused by weasels. A much better Science Fiction source about violence as a game changer or problem solver would be this statement. YMMV, and apparently does.
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ZFTG
there are alternate Media sources
TYT, Amy Goodman, RT News, various progressive blogs. (blackboxvoting)
We need to honor those efforts to inform the masses.
We need to read those sources, repeat their stories.
And direct others, still suffering from their MSM Media-Comas,
to these hot-coffee alternatives.
This is exactly why peacefully resolving
this may no longer be possible.
They don't want to listen.
They don't want to play fair.
They want to be criminals.
What do criminals understand? What do they NOT understand.
So correct, sorrowfully so correct.
The current situation is untenable and this is becoming increasingly known to the 99%--at least those who will look. As "electoral due process" has become an open sham to defeat the popular will, what recourse do the people have? The bought-and-sold media will not tell the story? Many do not have access to the internet. From a comment above regarding Isaac Asimov's novel "the Foundation", as viewed through Wikipedia, emerges this:
.
Change the last word to "powerless" and I heartily agree with that statement. Let's remember the 1907 Russian Revolution that died aborning. The serfs were too powerless to affect any change. The Czarists continue to rule with utter disdain for any but the elite. Pressures grew internally. Only when the Russian State was weakened externally by participation in World War I, was internal Russian discontent able to succeed in violent overthrow of Czarist Russia.
The problem seems to me to be
The problem seems to me to be less what criminals understand, as their understanding is often warped, and more that truly dangerous criminals must be stopped by any means necessary.
The ideal is that they should be peaceably arrested, isolated from society, tried and, if guilty, then can be prevented from causing further harm, but if this is not possible, other means must be used to protect society. They always have the option of giving themselves up, after all, rather than continuing the pattern of murderous destruction of concern - in this instance, regarding the global survival of life on the planet.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
It's just cause to eliminate e-voting machines
Put them on a scrap heap, dismantle them, melt them down and make something useful from the melted plastic, and whatever metals are in them, but get the fuck rid of e-voting machines and go to paper ballots with optical scanners.
Hell, if they tried hard enough, there's still five months to election day, and I'd bet money (okay, not more than a quarter) the states with the worst e-voting machine horrors could get new optical scanners and paper ballots in every precinct in short order... IF they wanted to have fair elections with hand re-countable paper ballots, that is. (If it were Rethuglicans they really wanted in office, they could do it in record time: under a month, if they feared the Dems could hack into their hackable machines and change their hack.)
As near as I can tell, the PTB WANT rigged elections, and that's why they leave these hackable e-voting machines without a paper trail or a way to recount votes when there's a close election. They have inconvenient voter registration, deadlines, closed primaries that come out with false totals because Indys are denied their voting rights, etc.
That's how we get oligarchy and fascism combined.
And no one protests after election day....
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960
And?
And when they ignore your demands? Then what?
And when they ignore your demands?
we get what we have now ...
Civil disobedience
If we have over a million Sanders' supporters in Philly we can cause enough civil unrest (e.g. block traffic and all access to and from the convention.) In essence, we hold the convention hostage until the super-delegates vote for Bernie and he is our nominee. If we stop Philly from functioning until our demand is met the DNC will have to give in. Or have the blood of hundreds on their hands when the National Guard starts shooting us outside!
Violence isn't the answer to our Revolution but it will happen.
"YOU must be the change you wish to see in the world." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
Brexit...
Has shown that people are universally pissed off at globalization and establishment politics. The Democratic Party by anointing their Queen are completely ignoring this and playing with fire.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
flipping and stripping
First you strip people of their right to vote. In CA they used provisional ballots. Here in Alabama we require an ID and then close drivers license offices in communities of color. If you still have an undesirable outcome, you flip the machines. In Alabama the exit polls were off by more than 14% in the democratic primary.
What democracy?
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Disturbing but not shocking, sadly. We have known for some
time that some elections have been, shall we say, questionable, and that the voting machines are hackable, and that the MSM mostly ignores it all because they are tools of their corporate overlords.
Nothing to see here. Maintain the status quo.
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Yes, we have
and a good question is, what are we going to do about it? Because the status quo is unacceptable at this point....
I hope those lawyers are actually going to file those lawsuits;
there's not much use in working for or donating to any candidate if the results are going to be rigged. I just checked trustvote.org. No update since 6/21, when they said they're waiting on California. Cali is still counting, per everybody. Are they going to drag it out so we have time to do nothing before the convention?
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There's also the class action lawsuit against DNC
Not that that will be resolved anytime soon. But I don't think these issues are GOING to be resolved before Queen Hillary or Despot Trump take office. It's going to get worse before there's any chance of it getting better.
But back to my original point, sorry - anyone who donated to the DNC or Bernie's campaign can be involved in the class action suit. I got talked into donating to the DNC once early in this election so I'm eligible (plus I've given plenty to Bernie's campaign).
My point being, there are actions being taken, but there isn't going to be instant gratification for any of us, I'm afraid, unless the FBI actually does it's job, or a giant furball from ceiling cat gets sent to take out Hillary.
I got my paperwork after a couple days
so they must be about caught up. Am looking forward to participating. We should all do so.
An Olympic/horse-race winner
An Olympic/horse-race winner proven to have cheated will have his/her win rescinded and whatever medal/trophy/cheque pulled because the false winner is automatically disqualified.
Where did the idea come from that this very basic standard does not apply to those caught cheating in elections? And why is this accepted - especially over and over again - 'as a done deal' by anybody not benefiting from the crime?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Would be interesting
to have questions regarding election integrity on the polls.
Do you believe votes in U.S. elections are counted accurately?
Do you think U.S. elections should be monitored by an outside entity such as the U.N.?
I wonder what the confidence level really is out there.
"Do tou believe polls are rigged?"
I think the only polls that aren't riggable are public meetings with public voting. Anyway, exit polls are summarily ignored. I like your suggestion, but I don't see how it would matter.
How would we know the results were accurate? :)
We'd have to have a paper-ballot vote to ask people if they thought there was election fraud and/or if they were comfortable with proprietary voting machines made by companies who certainly have political opinions, at the very least, and whose number one priority is always PROFIT, not voting integrity.
Even open source doesn't solve the issue
Its not enough to see the source code, The entire process of Compilation, executable file storage and transport, network communication, underlying operating system, and physical hardware would require inspection and continuous monitoring to ensure security.
Electronic voting CAN NOT BE SECURE. I am a computer programmer and would be happy to give any level of detail to this anyone would like.
Electronic voting machines can be an important part of the process however, So long as the only thing they do is print a paper ballot that is used by the voter for their actual vote. A printed Ballot has the advantages if not having any miss marked fields or hanging chads, and is easily inspect-able by the voter for correctness.
Further the Ballot paper should use bond grade security paper, made specifically for the election by the federal reserve, This paper should be serial numbered with a hidden marker(something not visible on the paper), and the traced through the election process to ensure no place has the extra ballot papers to stuff boxes with, and that the number of ballot papers used/ discarded/unused match the number of ballots cast/voided/unused at the end of the election.
At the end of the election all the ballot paper should be returned to the federal reserve and destroyed.
The number of voters through each precinct will still need to be counted by someone, to ensure number of voters and number of ballots cast match.
And finally ALL ballots should be hand counted, no computer tabulating, A computer tabulation could be used to give a preliminary result, but it could never be trusted.
I strongly agree.
I would use computers for two purposes:
1) to allow people to do ranked-choice voting, then to print out the ballot - for review by the voter before placing in the ballot box.
2) to run ballots through to ensure that they're not messed up. This would be particularly useful for ranked-choice voting done by hand. Then the ballot would go into the ballot box.
I wouldn't even use tabulators for a "preliminary" count, because that would then become the assumed result. People can just damned well wait.
Good points...
But I think computer tabulation is fine, as long as there is a random statistical sampling with manual counting. If the two are off by a statistically significant margin, then all hand-counted.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
There's really no reason for computer tabulation, though
The number of voters at each polling place are very manageable. Get the poll workers to count the ballots, with two sets each counting so the count can be verified. It's only hundreds to a few thousand at each location, not millions of votes.
With something this important, why even bring the possibility of hacking into it?
Absolutely correct..
It is very likely some results in CA were fixed via the tabulation machines, and we have absolutely no way of knowing about the results from States with no paper trail.
HAND COUNTED PAPER BALLOTS
or bust.
Computer tabulating is no longer acceptable. Period. The End.
WHAT LUNACHICKIE SAID!!!
It is the ONLY way to get 100% accurate vote counts - or as close to 100% as humanly possible, probably with less than 2% difference with exit polls.
And Moronic fucking Media can damned well WAIT until vote counts are tabulated, verified, certified, and then totals released to the public. Part of the reason hacked totals have been accepted as fact is because they all want to be first to announce the winner with 1% of the votes counted in any state of a time zone.
I want ACCURATE vote counts, and I don't bloody well care how long the counting takes as long as it is ACCURATE. For certain things, like ACCURATE vote totals, I'm endlessly patient. I can read a book, watch a few movies, do genealogy research while waiting. Whatever. I just want ACCURATE vote totals, dammit!!!
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960
There are lies, and there are more lies
and then there are statistics--which is a way of lying based on selectivity of input and methodology of estimations. Estimations are not the true data. The true data are the ballots themselves. I do not consider machine voting, without a paper trail to be a true ballot source. I am sorry, that in this day of p values, chi-squared, Pearson coefficients, and other SHORTCUTS to the real thing. When things cannot be knowable for whatever reason, then statistics are a fine means of approximation. But ballots are a finite number--each of which is capable of direct tabulation and counting without resort to estimations. Sorry for those too lazy to count real ballots, but the only way to ensure accurate ballot counting is not statistical--it is by hand count.
Impossible some might say. Consider this recent example: in all UK 34 counties (shires), millions of paper ballots were hand counted within hours of the Brexit vote.
... absolutely correct --
as a "quant", who understands and applies statistical methods, almost on a daily basis, I have to agree with your over-all assessment. There seems to have been quite a bit of cheating (underhanded -- slyly -- and out in the open, concurrently) going on around here in the US, lately.
Had the BREXIT vote been taken in the US, it would not have passed -- the "elite wunderkindern" who know what is best for all of us, would have seen to that. OTOH, in Great Britain, where votes appear to matter, and votes are registered on paper ballots and counted by honest people, VOX POPULI clearly has spoken -- "FU Elites!!"
The unlamented Cameron is resigning; his "austerity to appease the banksters" program may be in the dustbin for the time being (we hope!); and the "elites" who had intended to continue hoovering euros -- and pounds -- up to their 0.01-percent patrons should be looking for an escape route just about now.
Time for "a few close shaves with the National Razor" (look it up -- HINT -- it isn't the band) --
When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.
yep
being a geek too there are a lot of avenues for corrupt intent to subvert voting technology. The least easily corrupted method would be hand counting with very stiff penalties (felony and minimum prison time) for precincts that get subverted by political party operatives.
Oooooo, yes! Except that
Oooooo, yes! Except that there should be audits and oversight of a PUBLICLY OWNED Federal Reserve printing out the ballots, rather than the currently privately owned and apparently not publicly accountable one.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
I had another reason to look at NY State BoE (elections)
for my locality. All sorts of opportunities, signing up to be a poll employee, a poll watcher, a machine (scanner) technician. Last one is interesting, I did not look at qualifications. Even couriers for scanners being carried to a central tabulator could be suspect.
And now, straight from the horse's mouth: I asked NYS Upstate WFP rep if Bernie would appear on the ballot in November. His response:
So they are in hold mode.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Oooooo, I hope the unicorn of
Oooooo, I hope the unicorn of my dreams strongly trots out of Bernie's sleeve to escort him to the Presidency!
My hopes can possibly be pried out of my cold, dead hands, but not until then.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
New post at blackblockvoting.org has relevant info on this
All of their posts are very relevant - but the latest one is really eye-opening.
http://blackboxvoting.org/fraction-magic-part-6/
I read the whole series of articles, and I'm angrier than ever about these voting machines. I don't even know how this got this way - I know from the start it seemed like a bad idea to me - did Congress pass a law? Did we as a country ever address using computers vs. paper??
thanks for the link Haikukitty
blackboxvoting is a great site.
WHY as a country have we never address using computers vs. paper ballots,
is a very very good question indeed.
I think we all know why
Malevolent corporations hired incompetent security people to talk to ignorant lawyers and convince them that it was "secure". Those of us who are actually responsible for designing and implementing security systems pretty much laugh at that. The public is lied to consistently enough they believe what they are told.
What makes me laugh the most is that these systems are secured (if you can call it that) against external attackers. I'm waiting to see the one which is secured against internal attackers such as the secretary of state. When I'm talking to one of the pro-evote people I always ask, "OK, so if the Secretary of State and one additional high-level person is corrupted, how will you prove to me that the vote totals are accurate?" I have yet to get an answer to that question.
Recently I've become aware of a technology which might make a run at being actually secure and, as a bonus, would allow you to vote from home but none of the machines use anything like that.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
Oh, my dear bloody goddess...
Oh, my dear bloody goddess... what a mess! And so many unidentified subcontractors having access, too!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
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