Considerations on a Warren VP

So recently, Wall Street has threatened to withhold donations from HRC should she choose to pick Elizabeth Warren as her VP. And that threat has gotten some people talking, claiming that this will show people what HRC's true colors are: Will she side with her banking buddies and reject the idea of a Warren VP? Or will she side with the people and elevate Warren to the glorious and powerful position of Vice President? My problem with that? The choices are reversed.

One of the things that works against HRC is that people don't buy into the idea that she can be against things like Citizens United and in favor of regulating Wall Street when she is one of the largest recipients of Wall Street money. So, Wall Street makes a big fuss about how awful it would be for them if HRC picked Warren as VP, then she picks Warren, and look at that, she just convinced people she really is capable of being tough on Wall Street after all. But would she really be? I mean, what exactly can a VP do legislatively to ensure that any industry is being regulated?

From what I've read, the extent of a VP's power legislatively is that they get to cast a tie breaking vote in the Senate. Whoo. They can't even lobby support for any legislation that the Senate will be voting on. I haven't seen anything suggesting they can introduce legislation either. It honestly appears to me that if Warren were to be made VP, she would have less power over anything than she has now. If that's the case, then both Wall Street and HRC can only benefit from making Warren VP: Hillary gets the fake credit she needs to convince more easily swayed progressives to vote for her, and Wall Street gets rid of someone they can't manipulate on finance issues, while getting their best political friend in the oval office. We the people, on the other hand, lose big time.

On the flip side, I can see one reason they'd be worried about a Warren VP: HRC's health not being as good as it could be. If HRC were to suddenly die, or fall into a state of such poor health that she couldn't serve as president, then we'd be looking at a Warren presidency. That's the only reason I can see Wall Street actually fearing a Warren VP.

Share
up
0 users have voted.

Comments

lunachickie's picture

and probably why next week, someone else's name will be floated. Once Wall Street weighed in, the EW consideration probably tanked.

But we the great unwashed don't have to know that. See, that's what trial balloons are for Wink

up
0 users have voted.
OLinda's picture

I know Bill Maher is not liked around here, but he pointed out the other night that Hillary shouldn't pick Warren as VP because Warren is so much better than Clinton - more exciting, compelling, better politician (speaker), etc., where Clinton is drab. You can't have the VP outshine the candidate. Made me think of the maid of honor or bridesmaids taking all the attention from the bride.

When looked at that way, and I believe Bill is correct in his assessment, I would think Hillary sees it too, and would not want Warren on the ticket with her. Warren would be the star on the ticket.

up
0 users have voted.

being upstaged by the more likeable Warren, but she'll do whatever it takes to get elected. I think attaching herself to Warren is just one more in a long line of open manipulation. Open, that is, to those of us who are paying attention. The Hillbots will swoon themselves silly thinking they'll see HRC move anywhere near Left of Wall Street.

up
0 users have voted.

Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

featheredsprite's picture

I have expressed it here and there and even wrote an email to Elizabeth's Senate email to tell her why it would be a bad choice for her to agree to a VP slot.

I think Wall Street just did Warren a favor.

I am sorry that a Sanders/Warren ticket is out of the question. Man, could they raise hell!

up
0 users have voted.

Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

i feel is much greater with one as president and the other in the senate, than if they were president and potential president.

up
0 users have voted.
Ken in MN's picture

...Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Making Warren VP effectively eliminates Warren's power against Wall Street. So why is she seemingly falling for it?

up
0 users have voted.

I want my two dollars!

gulfgal98's picture

Making Warren VP neutralizes her.

up
0 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

It takes Warren out of the Senate neutralizes the progressive threat while trying to buy votes. It is nothing that the Berniecrats should be excited about. In my opinion the only thing the Clinton's could do that is exciting is walk away from politics.

up
0 users have voted.
MsGrin's picture

which I think is an especially BAD idea.

up
0 users have voted.

'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

Amanda Matthews's picture

like. She's fully aware that Clinton is a crooked, elitist opportunist. And knowing all that Warren signed the letter that Babs Boxer authored encouraging Clinton to run.

Warren will wear her knee pads and get in line and kiss ass.

up
0 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

travelerxxx's picture

In her position, Warren is - no doubt - even more aware of the corruption in the Democratic primary than those of us posting here. Yet, she remained silent ... despite previously acting, speaking, and writing as if she were a spokesperson for the Democratic Party left. Warren is supposedly "Wall Street's greatest enemy," yet she couldn't wait to endorse Little Miss Wall Street.

When we needed her the most, she was missing in action. So, now Warren comes out blasting Trump. Hell, any C99 poster could be effective doing that. No great shakes there.

up
0 users have voted.

Warren is a neocon when it comes to foreign policy.

up
0 users have voted.
Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

Honestly, it seems that politicians who don't have a neocon foreign policy preference is a rarity in the US. Wonder if it's a side effect of us being the "heroes" of WW2 and the Cold War.

up
0 users have voted.
OLinda's picture

pretty much has to promote the policies of the Administration, what the Prez wants. It would be frowned upon to have the VP coming out against a White House position. I believe Biden got away with it on a couple of occasions, but he and Barack's relationship seems to be somewhat special.

That is another reason I don't think Bernie would ever be interested in VP for Hillary (not that they would ask). If they did, he would turn it down. He would have to keep quiet and support Hillary's positions. I'm sure he would much prefer to be in the Senate criticizing the president when necessary.

up
0 users have voted.

As we've seen, with the curtain being pulled back lately, it's all a sham to benefit a few corrupt rich people at the top. All that's relevant to me is will Hillary be indicted. That way I know whether to vote for Bernie or Jill, which I will do whether my vote is counted or not.

up
0 users have voted.

Beware the bullshit factories.

that will make today's discussion seem trivial. I wonder if the FBI will mind being upstaged by Wikileaks?

up
0 users have voted.

and nothing has happened so far.

up
0 users have voted.

Beware the bullshit factories.

featheredsprite's picture

Indictment would be satisfying, but bringing it all out into the open might be more important. And Wiki will probably deliver at some point, hopefully pretty soon.

up
0 users have voted.

Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

but the general population isn't even paying attention like we are. That's why we should care, and that's why we should be as vocal about what we know whenever possible.

I'm certain the general population may think that Warren becoming VP would be an upgrade for her that would allow her to fight even harder for the financial regulations she's always fought for, not knowing the reality is that she would be effectively powerless until HRC is either removed from office or dies while president.

up
0 users have voted.

We're a lot more real than tv images or radio sounds or newspaper print.

up
0 users have voted.

Beware the bullshit factories.

Amanda Matthews's picture

House.

And as for Warren, she can take the proverbial long walk off a short pier. I am so done with fake 'Progressives'.

up
0 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

MsGrin's picture

but I want to know what motivated her endorsement (which merely served to detach people from supporting Warren rather than transfer support of Warren to Clinton). Are they holding her children or husband hostage? I think that's how they play ball.

up
0 users have voted.

'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

We're all pissed that Warren endorsed someone who is virtually her arch-nemesis in regards to her financial regulations. But don't go around calling her a fake progressive. Let her past actions and records speak for her the way we let Sanders' actions and records speak for him. She has done plenty of good for the general population during her tenure, even in the face of opposition from the Democrats.

up
0 users have voted.
travelerxxx's picture

Perhaps there is a Liz Warren I and a Liz Warren II. Personally, I am starting to suspect she has a little switch somewhere marked "Progressive: ON, Progressive: OFF." It would seem the switch has been set to "Progressive: OFF" ever since Sanders has been running. Her silence has been deafening.

up
0 users have voted.
Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

that she was aware that the election would be rigged to keep Sanders out, and that her endorsement would be pointless.

As I said, base your opinion of her on her record, not on what she says now. If we're going to base our opinions of people on what they're saying, then none of us should have any qualms about HRC. But we do, because of her record.

up
0 users have voted.

and she didn't stand up against it than she wouldn't be nearly the leader I thought she was.

up
0 users have voted.

Beware the bullshit factories.

Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

Any progressive democrats have to play a very difficult game of actually fighting for the people, and keeping their job so they can remain in a position where they can effectively fight for the people. That is what the democratic party is, and that is why we shouldn't be overly critical of any progressive democrats playing that game so long as there is no option B for them. We need to work our asses off to get a viable 3rd party going, so that progressive politicians don't have to play that shitty game.

up
0 users have voted.
Amanda Matthews's picture

Gee, that always works so well. Particularly when people start thinking about the 'do as I say but not what I do' hypocrisy. We're all supposed to suck it up and keep up the good fight and politicians are allowed to go with whatever advances their own career. It's called having the 'courage of one's convictions'.

up
0 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

If the goal is to advance one's own career at the expense of the people, a la HRC, yeah, that's bad. But if the goal is to keep a position where you can be effective in fighting for the people, is that bad too? How pure can we realistically demand people be at the federal level when we know that there is no alternative for them should the establishment decide that they're not worth the hassle? Would we be better off if Warren stuck to her convictions and got replaced through the establishment fraud machine with someone more in line with the rightward slant of the democratic party?

And yes, we do have to suck it up and fight the good fight. There is no other choice at this point. We have to do what the good politicians can't, because as much as the system is rigged against the politicians, it can't stop the people.

up
0 users have voted.

I am beginning to think that Warren is the kind of "progressive" that the oligarchy "allows", even encourages. Gets a few things passed, maybe, stirs up great amounts of dust, progressives cheer her on and feel they have a champion fighting for them helping to keep revolutionary fires channeled and tempered, and, then, when push comes to shove.....capitulation - face it, if Warren had come out early and strong for Bernie, even with all the fraud, suppression and media blackout - we would be having a very different conversation right now.

up
0 users have voted.
Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

Bernie still would have lost. If you think Warren endorsing him would have changed that at all, you're kidding yourself. The Dems showed they are willing to do in your face corruption and fraud, and they have an army of journalists and surrogates eager to help them do it.

up
0 users have voted.
Amanda Matthews's picture

is anything but a Progressive. Look at her support for drones, Israel v. Iran, etc.

We desperately wanted a champion when she stepped up and started telling the truth about Wall Street and the finances (and rigging of) Wall Street. She made some nice noise but she endorsed the side who epitomizes all the corruption that she built her reputation for fighting against. She's one of those talk the talk but don't walk the walk kind of people.

up
0 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

up
0 users have voted.

Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

hecate's picture

put Warren on the ticket. Then the Democrats, they will be running two Republicans.

up
0 users have voted.
NonnyO's picture

Big Banks telling Hillary what to do and to get rid of Warren....

EDIT: BTW, Bernie was right! How many ways can one say that? Bernie was right about Big Banks and Wall Street expecting something from Hillary, telling Hillary what to do in exchange for that money. Bernie was right!!!!!

Wall Street Threatens Clinton Over Warren

up
0 users have voted.

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960

Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

and Cenk is one of the people I'm not sure I agree with on this issue.

up
0 users have voted.
featheredsprite's picture

But I really don't think that ANY WOMAN should accept a VP position with Hillary. Do you think that Hillary can't play Mean Girl?

up
0 users have voted.

Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

NonnyO's picture

If excerpts of the book written by by ex-Secret Service agent are anything to go by, HRC is mean, spiteful, nasty, and can apparently throw a punch (giving Bill a black eye once) as well as break objects she throws.

And, of course, she's been a mean girl since she started her most recent campaign. I don't understand why people can't figure that out; her body language and facial expressions are blatantly obvious to me. Little verbal explosion about accepting money from oil corps, and still photos of evil-eyed death stares are just the tip of the iceberg of just how vicious and nasty she can be.

up
0 users have voted.

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960

WoodsDweller's picture

Making Warren VP takes her out of the Senate where she has some power and puts her into the VP slot which, in the words of John Nance Garner "isn't worth a bucket of warm piss".
It help Clinton get some Sanders supporters to vote for her.
This is all theater. What Wall Street really wants is Warren out of the Senate.

up
0 users have voted.

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone

Hillary Clinton could select Ralph Nader for VP (not that he'd agree), and it would not make a difference here.

The Governing power rests in the hands of her Cabinet choices, and close policy advisors around her. These people, as with Obama, will be 100% Wall-Street insiders and crooks no matter who her VP is. And with Hillary, of course, they will also be like-minded Neocon Warmongers too.

Hillary Clinton wants to go on a War Footing against Russia, China ("Asian pivot"), and send troops into Syria, and double-down on Libya, Iraq, and Afghanistan (all wonderful success stories, right?), and threaten Iran with moving goalposts until John' Kerry's Nuclear Deal is dismantled - so that War can follow. She wants "Regime Change" (murder) all over Latin America to snuff out any progressive-socialist economic changes there.

With Trillions and Trillions more dollars just wasted away overseas on these criminal Foreign mass-murder agendas, it does not matter who Hillary picks as VP -- there will be no budget left for any progressive initiatives anyway (not that she really has any to begin with).

Hillary thinks ending Glass-Steagall was a great thing (no regrets). She's completely and totally on-board for passing the TPP (never given a speech in her entire life where she actually criticizes it as a policy matter ... she has only just hand-waved away her real intent in one single interview, and in one single debate response).

I have no idea why Warren is risking her own credibility by becoming a "Cheerleader" for this psychopathic Corporatist-Militarist-Elitist, Oligarch-chosen and financed puppet. But the lure of career advancement can be enough to make people do strange things. But Warren is also not even a true progressive like Sanders is. She does not support either Auditing the (private) Central Bank Cartel, or replacing it with U.S. Treasury controlled money (debt-free). She has not be consistent and clear like Sanders about breaking-up the Wall Street Banks. Her "reforms" are mostly confined to fixing credit-card matters and consumer scams. There is no "Revolution" going on with Warren, like there was with Sanders, although she is better on several issues than most in Congress.

But Clinton is a control freak, and a Totalitarian statist. Like George W. Bush, her agenda is already pre-determined .... and it is not good for the people, or the World.

up
0 users have voted.
Shahryar's picture

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/21/politics/hillary-clinton-vice-president-se...

The three said to be under consideration are Elizabeth Warren, Julian Castro and Tim Kaine.

Which is funny. It means Kaine, in my opinion. It's like those contests you can enter where you're guaranteed to win a prize, either a new car, a new television set or a can of soda pop. Or send in now and we'll send you a free 45 record, either the Beach Boys doing "I Get Around", some guy you never heard of with a song you never heard of, or a lady you never heard of with a different song you never heard of.

And that's being generous to Warren and Castro but it emphasizes how bad Kaine is.

up
0 users have voted.

it's now impossible for them to be honest and direct. Kaine's the one, Castro and Warren are just being used. Or maybe Castro is a sellout too.

up
0 users have voted.

Beware the bullshit factories.

Winglioness's picture

Having Warren as VP would effectively neutralize her. VP's have no real power on policy, they are more place holders and tie breakers. I would think they would be happy to get her out of the Senate.
She wouldn't run for POTUS because she thought she would be more effective in the Senate. Why would she want to be VP?

up
0 users have voted.

She would be the most progressive VP this country has ever had. She would move the Overton Window back to the left by that fact alone. As far as her power in the Senate, she has managed to carve out a niche for herself as being relatively powerful by virtue of threatening to filibuster Wall Street friendly regulatory nominees, and by having a huge base of national public support, but that power has plateaued and the real power in the Senate requires a LONG slog.

Why are we all so convinced that VPs have no power or influence? Al Gore had significant influence. Dick Cheney had ENORMOUS influence. Even Biden has made some progress in influencing Obama and he was the consumate non-VP-VP. And Warren could ultimately be playing the long game for a 2024 Presidential run when the Demographics would allow her to win a nominating contest even if there WERE ANOTHER Hillary Clinton to contend with. She would have real Executive experience and name rec by then.

And, this much I trust her on, a dossier of progressive achievements to call her own instead of 8 years of nothing but threatening to veto HRC appointments in the Senate. She can cut some sort of a deal to make sure she has real influence. She has collateral: us! She can turn to her support for leverage in a second, even as VP. She is that smart.

I get why she wants this. And her being out of the Senate can be more than supplemented by Bernie's newfound popularity there. He can veto as many appointments as Warren could and then some. And they can form a powerful back channel alliance to hold HRC accountable.

Just saying.

up
0 users have voted.

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

Vice Presidents have power when the President is weak, compromised or desires it. Clinton is perhaps the second, but not in a way that Warren could leverage for power. Clinton also is not weak and she certainly doesn't desire to share power.

Could you please outline her dossier of progressive achievements? I can think of one thing, the CFPB, which is nominally leftish. What else has she done, other than give speeches from her Senate seat?

And who is this "us" you're referring to? Her lack of willingness to help Bernie makes me incredibly suspicious of her credentials and desires to be a champion of progressives. She lost a lot of "us" when she got behind someone who is literally opposed to everything Warren has been saying she stands for with respect to finance. That's not good optics, in my view. It casts doubt on her credibility.

up
0 users have voted.

LOL Jesus Christ, this place has lost its fucking mind. Good luck. Who's your pick for Veep?

up
0 users have voted.

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

picks for VP. It doesn't matter who she picks. Anybody she picks is going to be a powerless PR front and nothing more.

up
0 users have voted.

She already has two vice presidents, Bill and Chelsea. Anyone else will just have the title.

up
0 users have voted.

It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back. Carl Sagan

Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

Has absolutely no power. None at all. They can cast a tie breaking vote in the senate... and that's pretty much it, outside of something happening to the sitting president that renders them incapable of governing. If you deny that reality, which is spelled out on the white house website, then it is you who have lost your mind.

up
0 users have voted.
TheOtherMaven's picture

the Vice President has NO power at all.

Or had everyone forgotten that tied votes now only mean that a measure FAILS DISMALLY?

up
0 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

What has Biden done all these years anyway? I know he's given some speeches, but that's all that comes to mind.

up
0 users have voted.
terriertribe's picture

I have to agree with the others that the Clinton creature will absolutely not let anyone on the team effectively cross her.

up
0 users have voted.

Now interviewing signature candidates. Apply within.