I scanned the NYT (so you don't have to) and nada about Mrs. Clinton as they would say. Full left column on Trump's money woes and personnel shakeouts.
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They are laying the groundwork for a. "See! Hillary really isn't beholden to Wall Street! She told them to pound sand and picked Warren anyway!"
It is a great smokescreen for later when she goes, "Look, I had to sign this bill, but it's not because I am owned by GS, Remember when I told them No and picked Warren."
She is a manipulative scum-sucking tick on the body of society....
The only thing that disheartens me is is she really this transparent? Am I reading something into the situation that isn't there? Or even worse, is the average voter so ill-informed and disengaged that they won't even notice?
I suspect that it is probably a blend of "all of the above."
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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Remember, Hillary's party only cares about the highly educated professionals (see: Thomas Frank). They see themselves as some kind of superior being, and it's OK for fool with us rubes as long as they convince us to vote for them. Look at Obama's two campaigns if you need proof. He ran very liberal both times compared to how he acted while in office. It will be thus with Hillary, although we aren't as likely to fall for such a pose. She will whip up fear of Trump as her primary pose.
Then look at the way votes for Bernie have been manipulated. We know from 2000 Florida and 2004 Ohio that as long as the vote is close, no one will be able to prove election fraud. It has been thus all through the 2016 primary campaign, especially after Bernie posed such a threat to Her High-and-Mightiness in Iowa. We'll never know just how many of those races Bernie actually won, for the Party is in lockstep with ensuring she wins.
So she has no concern that her disdain for We the People shows clearly. Where else are we going to go anyway?
by a cynical CON ARTIST. Warren even considering it or endorsing this disgusting person makes her look so damned hypocritical. Does she not care that it hurts her?
What do the Clintons have on everybody, that they get such blind fealty shown them that carefully-cultivated reputations are destroyed? It's vomitous.
By abandoning the progressive base and being a hypocrite to help crown the new queen, Warren will never be able to count on progressive money/votes again. If Hillary also abandons her, the rest of the dems will avoid Warren like the ebola virus.
I'd think that Warren knows this and she insured her future by making a deal with Her Royal Clintonness before the endorsement.
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We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when we are afraid of the light.
--Plato
The only thing that disheartens me is is she really this transparent?
What I was trying to express (and failed) was that if she really is this transparent why the hell can't everyone else see it? Which is what I found disheartening, not her transparency.
I would really much rather think that it is I that am reading it wrong, because a world where nobody sees what I can so plainly see is the more scary reality, because I really don't think of myself as being an overly intelligent guy, and if I can see this and so many others can't that means there are a LOT of ignorant people out there.
That is some REAL scary shit...
I kinda feel like I got forced to wear the sunglasses.
" is the average voter so ill-informed and disengaged that they won't even notice?"
Yep. See: Donald Trump.
Look, I don't want to be a pessimist about this, but the average voter is about like the average TV viewer, or movie goer. Is Masterpiece Theatre the most popular show on TV? Does a Transformers movie die at the box office for insulting people's intelligence? People aren't informed for several reasons: too much effort involved, propaganda coming from all sides, lack of "entertainment value", just plain don't care, "better things to do", etc. As an educator I've seen this for as long as I can remember. And a lot of the powers that be want to keep it this way as a thinking voter is going to throw most of their asses out of office.
One of the things that works against HRC is that people don't buy into the idea that she can be against things like Citizens United and in favor of regulating Wall Street when she is one of the largest recipients of Wall Street money. So, Wall Street makes a big fuss about how awful it would be for them if HRC picked Warren as VP, then she picks Warren, and look at that, she just convinced people she really is capable of being tough on Wall Street after all. But would she really be? I mean, what exactly can a VP do legislatively to ensure that any industry is being regulated? From what I've read, the extent of a VP's power legislatively is that they get to cast a tie breaking vote in the Senate. Whoo. They can't even lobby support for any legislation that the Senate will be voting on. I haven't seen anything suggesting they can introduce legislation either. It honestly appears to me that if Warren were to be made VP, she would have less power over anything than she has now.
On the flip side, I can see one reason they'd be worried about a Warren VP: HRC's health not being as good as it could be. If HRC were to suddenly die, or fall into a state of such poor health that she couldn't serve as president, then we'd be looking at a Warren presidency. That's the only reason I can see Wall Street actually fearing a Warren VP.
If it was, someone else would be the object of all the discussion. Warren wouldn't even be in the picture. This is all just a pre-convention ploy to soften Bernie's support for when the heavy hitting begins in Philadelphia.
and it wouldn't occur to her that she might kick the bucket. It could happen to any of us. Hillary does what benefits her right now.
It doesn't matter if she picks Warren, she's still not getting my vote. And it's bad karma to wish bad on others, but let's just say it wouldn't break my heart if she keeled over tomorrow and wasn't coming back. But it's a fascinating thought, insofar as it shows how far ahead Wall Street looks.
Unlike many of you, I haven't decided about voting for Hill yet. But not a chance in Hades I vote for anyone else if Hill is unable to be the nom by the convention. They give it to Bern then or I'm done.
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People seem to be deluded into thinking that Bernie supporters are on average more intelligent or ready for an actual political revolution. I don't think that's true. I think there are plenty of BNCers, People's Summiters and so on who will gleefully vote HRC if Warren is her pick.
They wouldn't see it as taking Warren's power. They'd see it as a concession to the left.
I think Dark Helmet from Spaceballs applies here: evil always wins because good is dumb.
It is a shame, but I believe most Bernie supporters will vote for HRC because they are afraid and they are conditioned to vote for the lesser of two evils.
The problem with Hillary, it's that she is not a populist, she is a species of reptile, a corporate-sponsored candidate. And like certain reptiles, her colors change to adapt to the environment.
In nature, what chameleons do is harmless, a defensive mechanism, and serves other purposes such as communicating to other species. But in the artificial corporate world in which Hillary lives, a reptile changing colors is a strategy of deception. It's a charade, an integral part of a more complex electoral process. It's about how to cheat and swindle the public.
First voters, as many as possible, will be manipulated by colorful propaganda prior to the election. This is not as effective as it used to be, although the msm tries harder and harder each year to participate in the deception. But once the corporate propaganda has been played out, that is to say when the psychological tactics on the public minds are finished, then a mechanical process is implemented. This deception takes over when the voting precincts open. That's on a Tuesday, the day when the machines are rolled in, secret realtime software “patches” take over, which is a code word to control and flip machine counts of the votes.
With that in mind, I believe a Hillary/Bernie coalition can not coexist to defeat Trump. Populism and corporations don't mix. Sharks do not make good pets to put in your swimming pool.
Why would Bernie want to be endorsing Hillary, only to end up as another trophy kill for her record?
After she uses Bernie for political gain, Hillary will turn workers into disposable commodities for the US oligarchy. Just like swimming next to that pet alligator.
“As long as we try to run within the Democratic Party, we might win candidates. But can we win social change by running Democrats?...The problem with good people running within a bad party is that you get bad outcomes, despite good people.” Kshama Sawant, on Left Forum 2016, NYC, 20-22 May 2016
I don't know one honest Sanders supporter that will ever vote for that waste of ballot. She's a garbage candidate with a garbage agenda which benefits no one who truly needs help.
...and I don't see where there is much upside for Clinton. EW didn't even endorse HRC until it was almost over. That said, my trust in EW has eroded quite a bit.
believe this but here's my take. TPTB starts this campaign "against" warren so when Artillary picks her, she can tell us Bernie folk and people that may actually give a shit, she is going to be tough on banks/wallstreet, cause "see, I made Liz my VP!". If one thing I leernt in sckool is how to spel and that the VP of the US has about as much power 2 day old kitten. They, as in the banksters, would like nothing better than to have warren as Artillary's VP so they could shut down all this silly, quaint talk of "reform" and "regulations". This is way too transparent.
which is why I have always been against her being VP for anyone.
...but I do not think it ameliorates Bernie supporters who now no longer trust Warren.
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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
They just showed the above two polls and didn't mention how Bernie is doing in them. Just Clinton/Trump. Guess they figure why should they mention Bernie. It's over.
Only those following these things on the Web is going to know.
it sounded off to me - Chuck Todd works overtime to try to make the race over already.
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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
the "Wall Street moderates" in the story are not playing Tar Baby, they are in your face power tripping. Someone (not with the Hillary camp) suggested EW, and it actually makes sense - Warren as VP would be destroyed politically. help the Rs control the senate. and she provides impeachment insurance.
Doesn't work. The machinations are too obvious and the downside too great.
Wall Street's just laughjing at us.
and I don't see anyone falling all over themselves to do that. So it seems to me that at this point, Wall Street (as a 'collective') is not laughing, they're gritting teeth, wondering why people aren't taking the bait.
They don't get it yet. People have caught on to their bullshit and their cons.
Comments
Add a zero to the pile.
I scanned the NYT (so you don't have to) and nada about Mrs. Clinton as they would say. Full left column on Trump's money woes and personnel shakeouts.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Wall Street has no need to worry. She was/is never going
to pick EW. And I for one won't vote for her no matter whom she picks.
Don't believe everything you think.
I think she will pick her. It's her way of saying, "See, I am so
NOT bought by Wall Street!" The above complaints could even be planted. Pardon my "CT" but I do not trust her.
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Elena, I think you are spot on. That was my very first thought
as well.
They are laying the groundwork for a. "See! Hillary really isn't beholden to Wall Street! She told them to pound sand and picked Warren anyway!"
It is a great smokescreen for later when she goes, "Look, I had to sign this bill, but it's not because I am owned by GS, Remember when I told them No and picked Warren."
She is a manipulative scum-sucking tick on the body of society....
The only thing that disheartens me is is she really this transparent? Am I reading something into the situation that isn't there? Or even worse, is the average voter so ill-informed and disengaged that they won't even notice?
I suspect that it is probably a blend of "all of the above."
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Is she really this transparent?
Yes. She is.
Remember, Hillary's party only cares about the highly educated professionals (see: Thomas Frank). They see themselves as some kind of superior being, and it's OK for fool with us rubes as long as they convince us to vote for them. Look at Obama's two campaigns if you need proof. He ran very liberal both times compared to how he acted while in office. It will be thus with Hillary, although we aren't as likely to fall for such a pose. She will whip up fear of Trump as her primary pose.
Then look at the way votes for Bernie have been manipulated. We know from 2000 Florida and 2004 Ohio that as long as the vote is close, no one will be able to prove election fraud. It has been thus all through the 2016 primary campaign, especially after Bernie posed such a threat to Her High-and-Mightiness in Iowa. We'll never know just how many of those races Bernie actually won, for the Party is in lockstep with ensuring she wins.
So she has no concern that her disdain for We the People shows clearly. Where else are we going to go anyway?
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
Clinton "selecting" Warren is a cynical CON
by a cynical CON ARTIST. Warren even considering it or endorsing this disgusting person makes her look so damned hypocritical. Does she not care that it hurts her?
What do the Clintons have on everybody, that they get such blind fealty shown them that carefully-cultivated reputations are destroyed? It's vomitous.
Warren's career is toast if $hillary doesn't pick her for VP
By abandoning the progressive base and being a hypocrite to help crown the new queen, Warren will never be able to count on progressive money/votes again. If Hillary also abandons her, the rest of the dems will avoid Warren like the ebola virus.
I'd think that Warren knows this and she insured her future by making a deal with Her Royal Clintonness before the endorsement.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when we are afraid of the light.
--Plato
You may have just hit on the long game
For that reason, it would make complete sense to me if Warren was passed over now. That endorsement hurt her, big time.
Damn, that sentence really didn't express my thought well, lol!
What I was trying to express (and failed) was that if she really is this transparent why the hell can't everyone else see it? Which is what I found disheartening, not her transparency.
I would really much rather think that it is I that am reading it wrong, because a world where nobody sees what I can so plainly see is the more scary reality, because I really don't think of myself as being an overly intelligent guy, and if I can see this and so many others can't that means there are a LOT of ignorant people out there.
That is some REAL scary shit...
I kinda feel like I got forced to wear the sunglasses.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI8AMRbqY6w]
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Frankly, as a 50-plus-year-old whitish woman, I am completely
bamfoozled that any of my compatriots voted for Hillary.
I would certainly understand if policies were approximately equal. But they are SO not.
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Ill-informed.....
" is the average voter so ill-informed and disengaged that they won't even notice?"
Yep. See: Donald Trump.
Look, I don't want to be a pessimist about this, but the average voter is about like the average TV viewer, or movie goer. Is Masterpiece Theatre the most popular show on TV? Does a Transformers movie die at the box office for insulting people's intelligence? People aren't informed for several reasons: too much effort involved, propaganda coming from all sides, lack of "entertainment value", just plain don't care, "better things to do", etc. As an educator I've seen this for as long as I can remember. And a lot of the powers that be want to keep it this way as a thinking voter is going to throw most of their asses out of office.
Consider this
One of the things that works against HRC is that people don't buy into the idea that she can be against things like Citizens United and in favor of regulating Wall Street when she is one of the largest recipients of Wall Street money. So, Wall Street makes a big fuss about how awful it would be for them if HRC picked Warren as VP, then she picks Warren, and look at that, she just convinced people she really is capable of being tough on Wall Street after all. But would she really be? I mean, what exactly can a VP do legislatively to ensure that any industry is being regulated? From what I've read, the extent of a VP's power legislatively is that they get to cast a tie breaking vote in the Senate. Whoo. They can't even lobby support for any legislation that the Senate will be voting on. I haven't seen anything suggesting they can introduce legislation either. It honestly appears to me that if Warren were to be made VP, she would have less power over anything than she has now.
On the flip side, I can see one reason they'd be worried about a Warren VP: HRC's health not being as good as it could be. If HRC were to suddenly die, or fall into a state of such poor health that she couldn't serve as president, then we'd be looking at a Warren presidency. That's the only reason I can see Wall Street actually fearing a Warren VP.
Hillary's Health Is Of No Concern
If it was, someone else would be the object of all the discussion. Warren wouldn't even be in the picture. This is all just a pre-convention ploy to soften Bernie's support for when the heavy hitting begins in Philadelphia.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
That's because she exists in the moment
and it wouldn't occur to her that she might kick the bucket. It could happen to any of us. Hillary does what benefits her right now.
It doesn't matter if she picks Warren, she's still not getting my vote. And it's bad karma to wish bad on others, but let's just say it wouldn't break my heart if she keeled over tomorrow and wasn't coming back. But it's a fascinating thought, insofar as it shows how far ahead Wall Street looks.
Be Careful What You Hint For
We'd get Biden to replace Hillary.
edited typo
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
It doesn't matter if she's not getting my vote, period
because she's not. Biden isn't going to cut it anymore than Warren is.
We need Warren in the Senate, full-stop.
I'm sorry, was there really a point to this?
If we get Biden, I vote third party. Not negotiable.
Unlike many of you, I haven't decided about voting for Hill yet. But not a chance in Hades I vote for anyone else if Hill is unable to be the nom by the convention. They give it to Bern then or I'm done.
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I'd bet 50% of the Bernie Or Bust crowd is won over if HRC
picks Warren as VP.
People seem to be deluded into thinking that Bernie supporters are on average more intelligent or ready for an actual political revolution. I don't think that's true. I think there are plenty of BNCers, People's Summiters and so on who will gleefully vote HRC if Warren is her pick.
They wouldn't see it as taking Warren's power. They'd see it as a concession to the left.
I think Dark Helmet from Spaceballs applies here: evil always wins because good is dumb.
i agree the sheep will vote for HRC
It is a shame, but I believe most Bernie supporters will vote for HRC because they are afraid and they are conditioned to vote for the lesser of two evils.
Go ahead, put that cute alligator in your swimming pool
and see what happens.
The problem with Hillary, it's that she is not a populist, she is a species of reptile, a corporate-sponsored candidate. And like certain reptiles, her colors change to adapt to the environment.
In nature, what chameleons do is harmless, a defensive mechanism, and serves other purposes such as communicating to other species. But in the artificial corporate world in which Hillary lives, a reptile changing colors is a strategy of deception. It's a charade, an integral part of a more complex electoral process. It's about how to cheat and swindle the public.
First voters, as many as possible, will be manipulated by colorful propaganda prior to the election. This is not as effective as it used to be, although the msm tries harder and harder each year to participate in the deception. But once the corporate propaganda has been played out, that is to say when the psychological tactics on the public minds are finished, then a mechanical process is implemented. This deception takes over when the voting precincts open. That's on a Tuesday, the day when the machines are rolled in, secret realtime software “patches” take over, which is a code word to control and flip machine counts of the votes.
With that in mind, I believe a Hillary/Bernie coalition can not coexist to defeat Trump. Populism and corporations don't mix. Sharks do not make good pets to put in your swimming pool.
Why would Bernie want to be endorsing Hillary, only to end up as another trophy kill for her record?
After she uses Bernie for political gain, Hillary will turn workers into disposable commodities for the US oligarchy. Just like swimming next to that pet alligator.
“As long as we try to run within the Democratic Party, we might win candidates. But can we win social change by running Democrats?...The problem with good people running within a bad party is that you get bad outcomes, despite good people.” Kshama Sawant, on Left Forum 2016, NYC, 20-22 May 2016
I wouldn't take that bet at all
unless I was gonna sit around and give up.
I don't know one honest Sanders supporter that will ever vote for that waste of ballot. She's a garbage candidate with a garbage agenda which benefits no one who truly needs help.
Nobody knows her better than the Wall Street crowd
...and I don't see where there is much upside for Clinton. EW didn't even endorse HRC until it was almost over. That said, my trust in EW has eroded quite a bit.
I'd like to
believe this but here's my take. TPTB starts this campaign "against" warren so when Artillary picks her, she can tell us Bernie folk and people that may actually give a shit, she is going to be tough on banks/wallstreet, cause "see, I made Liz my VP!". If one thing I leernt in sckool is how to spel and that the VP of the US has about as much power 2 day old kitten. They, as in the banksters, would like nothing better than to have warren as Artillary's VP so they could shut down all this silly, quaint talk of "reform" and "regulations". This is way too transparent.
It would de-fang Warren by taking her out of the senate
which is why I have always been against her being VP for anyone.
...but I do not think it ameliorates Bernie supporters who now no longer trust Warren.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Two new polls:
A little OT, but hope no one minds. Ran across them in Greenwald's twitter page as retweets.
CBS Morning show, re polls.
They just showed the above two polls and didn't mention how Bernie is doing in them. Just Clinton/Trump. Guess they figure why should they mention Bernie. It's over.
Only those following these things on the Web is going to know.
NBC Sunday show featured how much better than Trump Clinton does
it sounded off to me - Chuck Todd works overtime to try to make the race over already.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
All "mainstream media" lying through their teeth
about this election, morning noon and night--is there any more doubt of this?
Amateur analysis
the "Wall Street moderates" in the story are not playing Tar Baby, they are in your face power tripping. Someone (not with the Hillary camp) suggested EW, and it actually makes sense - Warren as VP would be destroyed politically. help the Rs control the senate. and she provides impeachment insurance.
Doesn't work. The machinations are too obvious and the downside too great.
Wall Street's just laughjing at us.
On to Biden since 1973
They'll only laugh if people accept it and embrace it
and I don't see anyone falling all over themselves to do that. So it seems to me that at this point, Wall Street (as a 'collective') is not laughing, they're gritting teeth, wondering why people aren't taking the bait.
They don't get it yet. People have caught on to their bullshit and their cons.
I'm cynical that anyone even thinks there's an election
going on.
FRAUD is being rewarded.
Long past due for pitchforks. I've been marching far too long and usually with "progressives" bitching and armchair criticizing.
Now what? I think it's too damn late for any change or hope.
I would never vote for Rodham. Not even under torture. But there is no "voting" anyhow.
We can pretend there is.... but such pretending is just another example of our enslavement.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
I have some hope for the election fraud lawsuit. They are
working very hard to get paper trails.
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