A Response to Critics of My Video Yesterday on Misogyny, etc.
My latest video addressing criticism of yesterday's video on Hillary, Misogyny, PC etc.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDRBvw8jP8s]
This video blog is my response to criticism I received in the comments to my post of yesterday's video "Hillary, The B Word, The C Word and Misogyny) at caucus99percent.com.
c99 link: http://caucus99percent.com/content/hillary-b-word-c-word-and-misogyny
In particular, among the topics I discuss are responses to critics who accused me of being part of the "PC police," of raising inappropriately the issue of of "Identity Politics," of "Mansplaining," and the validity of "trigger words," among other things.
This response is not comprehensive by any means, but I hope it gives people who objected to my position a better understanding of what I led me to comment on the issue of misogyny in the context of Hillary Clinton and her candidacy in the first place. Obviously, everyone is entitled to their own views and opinions on what I said in yesterday's video, and to express themselves with whatever language they fell is appropriate regarding Hillary Clinton.
Comments
Profanity Is A Crutch For Conversational Cripples
We live in an era where tiny minds believe that profanity is manly or perhaps an acceptable substitute for ALL CAPS!!!! Maybe they do not have time to use a Thesaurus.
Here ya go! Give it a whirl: http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/whirl
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
Afactual, snide, presumptuous, egregiously false and
fallacious, in a word, bullshit.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
nicely adjectivized!
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
(No subject)
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
I guess when you have nothing valuable to say
better to post a an endless loop of nothing being said.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Some people...
just can't take a hint.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Something we can agree upon
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Hi Steven, first of all, I hope you are feeling better soon,
feeling lousy because of health issues is just something I wouldn't want anybody to have to suffer under. Hang in there and greetings to your beautiful daughter. You two nurse each other well. And that means love. Who can be against that?
Second of all, I am unhappy that this second video was even necessary to post. Your first video was a polite appeal you tried to make. It was by no means inflammatory. There was not even need to defend yourself, because such an appeal is a thing anybody should be able to make without being attacked for it or in need to defend it.
Third of all, I am not sure it was necessary to make that appeal here on C99p, because the usage of "bad" words, you related to, I haven't seen here too often (ok some, but I guess people just have their own sort of tunes and sounds). May be because I don't read everything. But then I think most of those, who got upset about your appeal, know very well that it's not the bad words that are the real issue (because who really uses them so often here in a context that is attacking any person individually? Not many, right?) but the way someone's comments are perceived as sexist or racist or individual trashing attacks of politicians (and sometimes writers of dailykos as well).
That is in the eye of the beholder and mostly dependent on the viewers own life experience. And if any of us could just make someone else's painful life experiences (or those of their ancestors) disappear miraculously, that would be paradise. As everybody knows we have been expelled of that paradise. It just ain't one out there.
I have seen here though quite a bit or trashing of writers of dailykos, people don't like here much. Sometimes I thought it was over the top, but then, it's normal that people don't like each other's way of expressing their opinions and what other people are saying. I didn't like some either, and all in all, I knew I had to distance myself to read their comments over there. But then you just do that and quit and leave them behind. That's why this place was created. Right?
May be the easiest thing to overcome extensive discussions of those reactions to things other people say that one dislikes, is to remind yourself how you would react if the person stood in front of you. I would say most of the time you think something to yourself, be somewhat silent, and may be try to 'distance' yourself quietly from someone, whose opinions you don't approve of.
If some people are dominating a discussion with repeatedly making their points over and over again and can't seem to help themselves doing so, in real space, you may make a short polite remark of disagreement and probably you would not seek their company again. End of it.
The issue of sexism and racism etc. has destroyed a site like dailykos, imo. It's possible, people can't help it, to have the same kind of destructive impulses on this site as well. It would be so nice, if we could avoid it.
Fourths of all, there was an influx of comments and diaries dealing with political identity issues. The atmosphere on dailykos that lead so many to leave it and come here were those. That is the reason for some to think that this influx here is a coordinated attempt to "create a little chaos" over here. I think one should resist such assumptions.
Don't allow it to happen. Ignore it. Nothing in there. Go on. I am not the only one being tired of it.
[video:https://youtu.be/6WPc7wm3dP0]
So "walk on" ...
[video:https://youtu.be/4sV7vyXfutQ]
Peace.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Thanks Mimi
A thoughtful response - I did expect to get some flack yesterday because - Hillary - but not for it to turn into a pie fight. In any event, I appreciate your voice of sanity and the respectful manner you use when you address people. Hope you are doing well. I have seen some comments here and some use of such slurs here, but more on the reddit sites to be honest. Oddly enough no one commented much when I posted it "over there" as compared to this blog. I guess I was the flame that attracted all the moths but only at c99 for some reason.
In any event, I don't expect to be addressing this issue again. I've pretty much exhausted what I have to say on the subject.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Not odd at all.
People "over there" love Hillary Clinton and are willing to side with anyone that defends her. Your defense against bad words being spat out against Hillary fits in very well with their worldview. People "over here" don't like her quite as much.
I was talking about the reddit sites
Kossacks for Sanders and The Way of the Bern, not GOS.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Ah, I see.
Some people here use over there to mean DKOS, so I assumed over there meant over there at DKOS instead of over there at reddit.
Good post Mimi, ironic that you would choose
Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee who disagreed so strongly that they did not speak to one another (except on stage) for years.
I agree, in real space, one can walk away from a disagreement so why not do the same thing here. Get up from the device and walk away.
To thine own self be true.
MarilynW, I remember you told me about the two
not going along very well in real life. I had not forgotten.
But sometimes I am glad not to know about people's personal disputes. I actually chose those songs because I like the way McGee sings and I like that specific song "to oo on" a lot. The first one apparently never got views much on YouTube. May be people can't deal with him calling the "Precious Lord". But I think you let everyone seek for some relief they way they want to.
And I only can say, I like the EB so much, because that song I found through Joe's collections in the EB. So, it happens I fall in love with a song.
https://www.euronews.com/live
At the end of day
no one really cares about someone using bad/hurtful language. Happens every day in the Mill and the Exec suite, even our Presidents.
It is the weakest of arguments to attempt to shame another with whom one disagrees by crying Misogynist! Racist! Fascist! Commie! Shithead! etc. One won't win the point nor persuade those which with one is dialoging falling back to these discussion killing responses.
You wanna talk? You want to persuade someone? Need a safe space? Oops...
Caring is good. Being sensitive to feelings is good. Being outraged by language?
Not so much.
See Chaucer.
Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!
Firesign Theater
Stop the War!
Sorry, political power comes from the barrel of a gun.
Still true, or OWS would have succeeded.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Sometimes words is all we have
and you know, when it walks like a duck, talks like a duck - then it's okay to call it a duck. They've taken my rights and even my vote all I have now is words. Barely.
I'm sure Hillary has tough skin. Like I said yesterday, I can think of worse things to be called than bitch.
War Criminal
Killer
Greedy
Evil
Liar
And those don't seem to bother her or her frenemies.
I find it odd we are so offended by Bitch. Yet here's the ugliest word I know and it's offensive because it hides the true offensiveness.
"COLLATERAL DAMAGE"
That is a sick fucking word for something that Hillary supports. The killing and targeting of civilians.
"Collateral Damage" it is PC for "we're not even sorry for the deaths"
Besides, the "Progressives" are so fond of the R word, I don't really care to mince words anymore.
Hell, we're not even people we are now suspects or subjects.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
That is my point Janet
There are worse things to call her and none of them distract from what she has done and the immoral criminal actions for which she is responsible. I guess some people felt I was going all KOS on their ass yesterday. It's funny in a black comedic sense, I suppose.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
I understood :)
NO worries
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
You hit a nerve, both in the sense of bringing up
old Daily Kos wounds, and also, more generally, in the sense of bringing up an *old* fight on the Left. As I said in the original diary, this issue takes two of our fundamental values: fairness and freedom--and puts them in conflict with one another. There's no surer way to start a fight than to illuminate where two basic values of the community are at odds.
There's also the fact that, given the leadership vacuum in what was recently a fairly well-organized movement, obviously we're now in the stage of multiple divisions and infighting. Wish that weren't so. I'm glad to see at least some other people also wish it weren't so; that means we might make it through this stage.
Edited to let you know: I don't think it was your intent to start a fight, or anything like that. I've valued your work greatly over the past several months, and hope to see more of it. And I hope you feel better soon.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
The R word = “racist” ? n/t
The R word
Retard.
It's a nasty word that many many progressives don't mind using apparently.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
It's been amusing to see the NY Times & the WaPost
Clutch their pearls over Trump supporters using a "common vulgarity" to refer to Hillary. The 1st time, I was sure they meant the "c" word. Nope, they meant "bitch."
It seems the NY Times still hasn't gotten over Molly Ivins's describing a community chicken killing festival in New Mexico as a "gang-pluck" back in 1980. (Here she tells the story. https://vimeo.com/76016905) no sense of humor.
Hillary Clinton is a politician. politicians get called a lot of things & they need to grow a thick skin. Read a little history & you'll find that politicians have been called lots of worse things than "bitch." Hillary is a truly horrible person & there are times I don't feel like sugar coating it and I do call her a bitch. So call me sexist. What does that even mean anymore, when her camp calls me, a 53 year old woman, sexist for not voting for her?
Now, I won't use "ho"; it's illiterate anyways and I definitely won't use the "c" word, which I consider on par with the "n" word. But if a man can be referred to as an sob, then Hillary can be referred to as a bitch. I'm tired of this stupid brand of feminism that considers it sexist to say "history", etc because it's male. Grow up!
Misdirected Aggression
Steve in no way shape or form demanded adherence to pc vocabulary requirements. Words like history and mankind are not classified as profanity.
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
Steven
I didn't read all of the comments in your last diary so I can only speak to mine. If you internalized this response as a result of anything I said, your are taking everything I said way too personal. Different strokes for different folks, and I don't resent that one bit.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Honestly I don't think I was referring to you dkmich
There were some other comments however that I did notice. Not who said them but what was said.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Oh, thanks Steven.
I try very hard to be honest and not offensive. I try to respect everyone's right to their opinions no matter how much I might disagree. I am glad to know that I did not respond to you in such a fashion that I made you feel a need to further explain yourself.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
"not who said them" is a problem
much like the idea that you find disagreement as coming from "critics". It de-personalizes those who disagree with you. They are real people, not "critics", not "comments".
If you set yourself apart then we have to overcome that first before we can talk honestly.
That is to say, I'm responding here to Steven D and not "a guy on c99 who said something".
Ok what should I call people other than critics?
Serious question. It wasn't an attempt to depersonalize anyone. Should I list the name of every person (most of them anon names)? Would that be better?
People are free to criticize my opinions here or anywhere else. But in a bazillion comment thread when I didn't have the time or energy to respond to all of them, it seems reasonable to address the major themes of the critical remarks that were posted. Otherwise I would have had to spend all day repeating the same points to a bunch of individuals and getting the same comments/responses back. I've been called a critic before and did not feel depersonalized by the use of that word, so why does it bother you so much?
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
where were you called a critic?
could make a difference.
I'm fine if you say "those who disagreed with me". That indicates a discussion.
Now look at what you wrote. "...a bunch of individuals". You don't think that de-personalizes this?
I understand that you don't want to spend a lot of time, responding to everyone....although I think you should. You might consider that you post 16 minute videos rather than summarizing your points in text. If you think others should spend 16 minutes listening to you talk then you can spend the time replying. In my opinion!
In any case, I haven't seen this misogyny here. I've seen some of that b-word but it's not anti-woman, it's anti-Hillary. And it's uncommon too, just a rare use here and there. When it's used for a specific person it is NOT the same as general bigotry.
Now I'd be displeased if you didn't respond to this today but instead posted a video tomorrow that doesn't really address it but throws it into a box that you've created of "comments from my critics". I'd feel that you weren't responding at all, thus my lack of enthusiasm for your latest.
Well I explained upfront why I did the videos
I have been pretty sick since coming back from Philly. In light of my health concerns I overdid it leading up to Philly and while I was in Philly (as Alison Wunderland could tell you) and am now paying the price. Thus the use of videos, and less frequent written essays since my return. I posted my video yesterday before heading to the doctor and then having x-rays done. I have more procedures coming up next week. I feel like shit. So responding to every comment in a 100 plus comment thread under those circumstances - especially after seeing many of them diverge wildly off topic - seemed like a poor use of my time and energy.
As for the video itself, this community seems to be of the opinion my remarks were directed solely at them - which was not the case - I posted this video at reddit sites as well and on twitter. Only here did people take grave offense at what I, and at least some other people, considered to be a fairly tame appeal not to use sexist slurs even against a candidate who we all agree is despicable.
You want to call Hillary a bitch, feel free. I didn't tell you you couldn't, only that I thought it a bad idea and I explained my reasons for that opinion.
And, no I am depersonalizing people by not responding to every comment. To think that the person who posts an essay here needs to or should do so seems ludicrous, especially as many posters here don't respond to any comments to their posts. I find your claim that by doing so I am "depersonalizing" people irrational if not hypocritical, since I've seen this done frequently by posters here and previously at DKos when the threads became large and the criticism of the diarist on the comments was consistently similar enough to justify the "diarist" or "essayist" posting an update with a general response to those making those comments. It's been fairly commonly employed, so why is it only now that I am depersonalizing people by making a response to common criticisms in this manner?
Well, I don't know what else to say to you except that you can say whatever the hell you want. I will do the same.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
maybe the reason I react thusly IS the cross-posting
I don't see this as a problem here. Perhaps it is...perhaps not, right? So if you see the problem elsewhere yet post it here....well it just reminds me of the bogus misogyny charges against Bernie, just because he ran against Hillary. You remember, "Bernie Bros" and all that. The Clintonites wanted us to apologize for something that wasn't happening. They wanted to brand any support of Bernie as racist and sexist.
So I'm touchy about this. Of course if we see any woman-hating we'll call it out. But if we don't see it here and yet you talk about it as if it's a problem (which might be the case elsewhere) and we go "eh, what?" then that's not being a critic of you.
Anyway, take care of your health. I figure we agree on this issue 99%!
Thanks
Appreciated.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
We can't call women an a**hole,
doesn't work! But I understand your view StevenD. Women rock. And I really don't like profanity. I hated it at GOS, especially from the proprietor.
I understand that
racism, sexism,bigotry, gender and hate are rampant in this society. I'm sorry that your family has had to deal with this. I'm sorry for the real victims of hate and fear globally that the powers that be carefully cultivate via the culture wars and xenophobic nationalism. In my opinion there is no separating the politician from the person. What Hillary is about as a pol is inseparable from her persona, her psyche. Same with Obama and Bush. The politicians of the last few decades themselves have helped create the culture war which is largely driven by fear and hate. Divide and conquer works well.
I think however your over reacting to the 'bad' words here on cc99%. I do temper my foul mouth here for the most part but I find it hard to be told that I should ignore what she essentially is and ignore the fact she's a woman. Identity politics in which we are supposed to ignore the human were identifying with seems really absurd. I have not seen any sexism regarding Hillary on cc99%. I overly reacted to your essay and I really let it rip bad word wise.
This essay is unnecessary as was the first one was. Were not bigoted hateful foul mouthed children here, so why direct a lecture on proper language directed at a power mad psycho to the people on this site? You seem to be taking the push back in the comments personally and yet you tell me not to address The Mad Bomber on a personal level. I'd say as a woman who has been on the receiving end of misogyny my whole life that to refrain from personal insults to a woman who is a threat to women, children and all humans globally is impossible.
As they say the political is personal. Telling people what you feel is appropriate language is your personal opinion and the rest of us are allowed to disagree without being lectured about what constitutes 'bad' words. This is the same 'we're better then that' meme that I've heard for years. Were not allowed to call what comes out of pols mouths lies as the L word is another dirty word. Liberal now that's verboten word for some or how about 'ideological far lefty purist' or firebagger. It's enough to make you want to curse and swear. Don't it make you want to twist and shout.
'Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidarity of solidity to pure wind.' George Orwell.
So you're telling me to STFU
I didn't demand anyone do anything. I asked politely and expressed my opinion on why I thought the use of sexist slurs was bad. I didn't name any names and I never said my "lecture" was intended solely for people at this site. It was posted at other sites as well. Only here did some people take grave offense at my opinion. I told everyone that they could say whatever they like, but to please consider the reasons, which I listed, to avoid speaking about HRC using sexist slurs.
As for the push back I received, I was accused of demanding conformity, trying to censor people and now lecturing. I was called the PC police, a mansplainer, a trafficker in identity politics (whatever the fuck that is) and the strong implication was made that I was trying to censor people and or hurt the "left" in some unexplained, ill-defined way. None of that was the case.
So my question to you is that why am I not permitted to respond to those negative and false accusations and express my opinion about what I consider to be, frankly, a bunch of bullshit? Maybe you should consider who took this too personally. In any event I'm done with this topic.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Apologies from me for the mansplaining remark yesterday.
I regard you as a friend, not an enemy. Blame my ill health for my irritation. I hope you feel better soon.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
It's ok riverlover
I am not angry with you. Sorry your health has been as poor as mine lately.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
I did not take grave offense
at your opinion I just disagree. I don't see 'sexist slurs' on cc99%. I hear people using 'bad' language that you construe as sexist. As a woman I know a sexist slur when I hear one. Maybe the reason you got push back was because this site is that was founded in part by people that had been harassed, shamed and blamed by the PC police at dkos. Your allowed to express your opinion however people are not going to necessarily agree. You did say that we should not call Hillary names but keep it to issues. I think you've got it upside down.
The slurs (which are not imo sexist) you see are because of the sexist, racist, and anti human rights policy and agenda she advocates. I'm sorry you take all of this personally and I will try refrain from using words that offend your sensibilities or at least refrain if your around. I have never used the c word here or anywhere. I have never seen used it here. How about if I call her a poopy head? No need to get so defensive about people's reactions to your language suggestions. The bad language on this site is just good old fashioned swearing and bitching about the god awful election and indescribably horrific evil candidates we are supposed to choose between.
I'm not telling you to STFU anymore then you were telling me to STFU and stop using bad language. I enjoy reading what you have to say. I just disagree about the definition of misogynistic slurs and the calling for PC language when dealing with Hillary. There is no way to use correct language when you are dealing with a pol of this nasty evil magnitude. There is a special place in hell for foul mouthed women like me according to The Mad Bomber.
As I said I am done with this topic
You do not have to curb your language for me or my sensibilities. Said my piece, you've said yours, so let's call it a day, shall we.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Everybody is permitted to initiate, and to respond
on caucus99 except in some extreme corner cases like MRA, white power movements, etc.
I think people are really raw from what we've just gone through, and are reacting sharply to each other. Not surprising; people are exhausted and demoralized and have no clear direction.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
What's Up With All The Defensiveness?
Steve made a simple, straightforward request to curb the profanity. Not a big deal. He did not threaten banishment or corporal punishment. Steve or anyone else can make a simple request for "more considerate language", "more mature conduct" or maybe common everyday decency.
Damn shame that a retarded old bastard wants to raise the fucking level of discourse at c99%.
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
Now this made me laugh
"Damn shame that a retarded old bastard wants to raise the fucking level of discourse at c99%."
Replace "retarded" with "senile" or "decrepit" and you pretty much have my kid's standard put down of their "old man" down pat.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
SHIT!
Now I have to wipe the coffee off the damn screen! Again!
Hope you and the Fam feel better soon, no worries from me on either vlog. I use coarse, unrefined, base, and not socially acceptable for polite company language ALL the time, eh, who cares? As for 'The Words'? If you an asshole, or a whole ass, just call it like you see it and roll on.
I Try to make it personal if I use 'those words' because it IS personal if I use 'those words', not the gender bash for all.
A shitstain on the tighty whities of the world! Would that work? ; }
Be cool on your stool, fool!
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Fascinating...
and utterly unimportant on both sides of this issue, except that it is yet another schism for the progressive base to try to straddle. Here's the thing...none of this, not one whit of it matters in the face of what we are all facing as a species, hell, as members of a phylum even.
I didn't know anything about this (I almost never watch videos, too little time), but if it divides us, cut it out please.