Who is worse -- Trump or Shrub?

Submitted by fire with fire on Tue, 03/18/2025 - 10:57am

It seems to me that opposition to President Blowhard is a day late and a dollar short when it comes to fighting for a decent and peaceful nation. Opinions will vary, and I am keen to see an argument made for the Keagle being the worst threat to democracy ever. Here is where Dubya set the bar:

Bush:

1. Started war against Afghanistan because they would not give up the guy alleged to be 100% responsible for the suicide plane crashes and subsequent deaths of thousands of Americans on September 11, 2001. Cost of war to taxpayers -- $2.3 Trillion. Human and Budgetary Costs to Date of the U.S. War in Afghanistan, 2001-2022 | Figures | Costs of War

2. Started second war against Iraq because they would not give up weapons of mass destruction that did not exist. Cost of war to taxpayers – $1.1 Trillion Financial cost of the Iraq War - Wikipedia

3. Patriot Act passed, shredding the Bill of Rights

4. Cut taxes by preposterous amount – creating a structural deficit that persists today

5. Katrina

Add your own favorite Shrub Fuckups

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Bush

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Submitted by earthling1 on Tue, 03/18/2025 - 11:27am

Trump is not done yet

But I'm inclined to say a nuclear conflagration would be worse than Bush the Lessor.
Democracy? Democracy? (searches pockets) haven't seen any.
We can all stop looking for that around here.
Try looking in China. I think they stole Democracy from us.

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Tue, 03/18/2025 - 1:25pm

The coming war with Iran

@earthling1

Submitted by TheOtherMaven on Tue, 03/18/2025 - 2:25pm

Naah, I think we offshored it to them

@earthling1

along with just about all of US manufacturing.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Tue, 03/18/2025 - 12:57pm

Is this true?

Started war against Afghanistan because they would not give up the guy alleged to be 100% responsible for the suicide plane crashes

Didn’t the Taliban offer to turn Osama over to America?

And if you listen to Jeffrey Sachs it was Netanyahu who got us into the wars because Iraq, Libya, Syria and Lebanon were against Israel’s plans to genocide the Palestinians. There’s a video of him with the judge talking about in last night’s blues. I’m relistening to it now.

On the Patriot Act I understand that Biden wrote it up after the Oklahoma bombing and just needed a time to put it into effect.

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The Washington Generals should probably sue the Democrats for copyright infringement.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Tue, 03/18/2025 - 12:35pm

I found it

@snoopydawg

Biden wanted to get a more draconian bill passed for the ‘domestic terrorists’ in America after J-6. Gee maybe that was why they let it go forward and didn’t bulk up security.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/andrewkaczynski/surveillance-joe

Another potential sticking point for liberals: Biden not only voted for the 2001 Patriot Act, he, on many occasions, claimed credit for writing it.

"I drafted a terrorism bill after the Oklahoma City bombing," Biden was quoted as saying by the New Republic in 2001.

"And the bill John Ashcroft sent up was my bill," Biden continued, referring to the Patriot Act. The act broadened the surveillance capabilities of U.S. law enforcement agencies as it relates to identifying potential terrorists, and many of its provisions have been opposed by liberal Democrats and civil libertarians.

It wasn't the first time Biden took credit for the Patriot Act . On Meet the Press that same year, he made similar comments referring to the Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of 1995.

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The Washington Generals should probably sue the Democrats for copyright infringement.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Tue, 03/18/2025 - 12:55pm

Also too

@snoopydawg

From Jan 8, 2021 by Caitlin.

The Boot Is Coming Down Hard And Fast

Biden has announced plans to roll out new domestic terrorism laws in the wake of the Capitol Hill riot.

"Mr. Biden has said he plans to make a priority of passing a law against domestic terrorism, and he has been urged to create a White House post overseeing the fight against ideologically inspired violent extremists and increasing funding to combat them," Wall Street Journal reports.

“Months before the Oklahoma City bombing took place, [then-Senator Joe] Biden introduced another bill called the Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of 1995. It previewed the 2001 Patriot Act by allowing secret evidence to be used in prosecutions, expanding the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and wiretap laws, creating a new federal crime of ‘terrorism’ that could be invoked based on political beliefs, permitting the U.S. military to be used in civilian law enforcement, and allowing permanent detention of non-U.S. citizens without judicial review. The Center for National Security Studies said the bill would erode ‘constitutional and statutory due process protections’ and would ‘authorize the Justice Department to pick and choose crimes to investigate and prosecute based on political beliefs and associations.’

The post 9/11 era is over. The single greatest national security threat right now is our internal division. The threat of domestic terrorism. The polarization that threatens our democracy. If we don't reconnect our two Americas, the threats will not have to come from the outside. pic.twitter.com/ADgGcf7qEo

— Sen. Elissa Slotkin (@SenatorSlotkin) January 8, 2021

Maybe to be fair you ought to include Obama and Biden in your who’s worse list since Obama decided to look forward on torture and he too decided that due process wasn’t something that he thought should be the law of the land since it happened to actually be the law of the land.

Biden’s actions against the pro Palestinians protesters set up what Trump is doing with the consent of his voters.

The never ending wars and the assault on our liberties has been a bipartisan effort and Americans need to wake up and see that both parties see us as their enemy.

Caitlin’s article is a great read.

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The Washington Generals should probably sue the Democrats for copyright infringement.

Submitted by fire with fire on Tue, 03/18/2025 - 1:33pm

hell, I dunno

@snoopydawg I just cited the Bush party line on why he started his first war. Your perspective here, Snoopy, is almost certainly correct, making Shrub even worse than my post suggested.

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I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Tue, 03/18/2025 - 1:23pm

The plot to undermine social security

Submitted by fire with fire on Tue, 03/18/2025 - 1:44pm

you have all made variations on my point

Most of the TDS story line is predictive -- arguing from Blowhard's many absurd proclamations to what they portend. And scaring oneself to death.

Democracy has been undermined for many years now, and I don't "blame" any President any more than the rest of the motley crew of TV performers who have resided in the White House this century. They are all prisoners of The System and I believe the main reason why the Powers That Be put him back in office is that Trump is the perfect lightning rod taking the blame for catastrophe as we are pushed into the Global State.

I do not believe that either Shrub or Biden really made the decisions that have brought the USA down from Triumphant Winner of the Cold War to our present moribund social order.

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I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

Submitted by QMS on Tue, 03/18/2025 - 8:11pm

I vote for neither

the creeping evil only seems
to get worse with each new iteration
O' Bomber or O'Biden?

It may be the disinformation age, but it is
not difficult to detect the edge of the cliff
we are being led toward.

Thanks for hosting another thought experiment.
Hope you didn't have to take out a mortgage to
buy eggs and milk.

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Thought is the wind, knowledge the sail, and mankind the vessel.
-- August Hare