Is this what Markos thinks of Clinton?

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 12:21pm

You have to understand that, come March 15, the Clinton we all know and love, courtesy of Doug Henwood’s accurate biography My Turn, will be replaced by a brand new Clinton. She’ll be experienced (but not “at what?”), capable (but not “of what?”) and competent (but not “at what?”). Her history, along with the portions of our brains responsible for understanding it, will be replaced by the landscape of My Little Pony, complete with unicorns and fairies.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb7Xdu7STx8]

[video:https://youtu.be/hnzHtm1jhL4]

So you see that the Markos version is reality based. The next President of the United States basically runs a pay-for-play operation to amass huge quantities of money, will be compiling enemies lists like she did after the 2008 defeat, will say anything to anyone and thus whose word is meaningless, is a model of policy production but can't be trusted, is appealing largely among people who like to say she's "experienced" but who don't really care what she's actually done, and will have made it to the White House by running an organization that looks an awful lot like a syndicate. So vote for her because she's better than the Republican. Oh, and your candidate doesn't have a chance, even though he does.

The Danger of Hillary Clinton: She Is Not the 'Safer' Candidate

Casting a vote for Clinton is to affirm militarism, economic inequality, and Wall Street. It is to vote for the ecological meltdown of our planet, duplicity in government, the control of our institutions by the rich, drone strikes, government surveillance of the people, and perpetual war. It is to cast a ballot against the interests of the working poor, and for the interests of Goldman Sachs and Big Pharma.

Remember, though, that Clinton will make you feel safer -- because instead of organizing against the Republican who does these things, you'll be cheering her on, or at least concocting elaborate apologies for her behavior.

So it's all good -- and never mention Jill Stein!

Tags:

Ides of March

et tu Markos

media massacre

Vote

Comments

Submitted by detroitmechworks on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 12:32pm

Somebody say Stein?

I will say that one thing that Ross Perot and Ralph Nader proved is that third parties are VERY viable if they can get their message out. They need open access to the debates. The MSM isn't likely to do that, unless the results would be positive for selling soap though...

After the "Reality" star Presidential Candidate, I'm thinking that hijinks are the only way to get media attention in the amount needed.

Yup. Silly Party it is!

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31FFTx6AKmU]

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Submitted by gjohnsit on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 12:34pm

Is it CT to say

that Markos is probably actively part of the Hillary campaign? From early on.

Submitted by Shahryar on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 12:51pm

not necessarily the campaign

But trying to get a seat with the power brokers. Those dinner invitations are gold!

Here's how I see oligarchy: I believe it comes from the idea of a group of families running things in ancient Greece. It doesn't matter all that much which family has the appearance of most power at any time. They'll switch it up, passing it back and forth, as long as that power remains with those families. The difference between monarchy and oligarchy is that monarchy is Windsor and oligarchy is Bush, Clinton, Kennedy.

The question of the power of the Presidency is almost irrelevant in an oligarchy. I can see that it's possible for Obama to actually be the head of the government. I can also see that the whole thing is leadership by committee, where Obama is one of many, unlike GW Bush who was likely out of the loop while the other committee members, led by Cheney, ran things. Or maybe Cheney was just one of many.

But most importantly, the power must remain with "our set". We can't have "those people" in the house. Thus the Repub panic over Trump and the rush to crown Hillary.

And now it's, I think, Markos' dream to be in that crowd. I suspect they don't want him, thus he overdoes it. He might get a pat on the head.

Really, I think he's not bright enough, not cunning enough to be part of the Hillary campaign. He's a wannabe.

Submitted by detroitmechworks on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 12:56pm

He's a Fawlty.

Barely a member of the middle class, even with all his money.

Obsessed with the Idea of becoming one of the nobles/peers.

As portrayed by John Cleese In Fawlty Towers.

—

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 1:04pm

I think its worth pondering

Markos seems to be beyond just a supporter.
I believe he's been in contact with the Hillary campaign from early on.

However, I have no proof.

Submitted by Caerus on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 2:25pm

feels like it though...I agree

I was surprised at how little "space" DKos gave to the possibility of Bernie Sanders.
Still, it was good to see how quickly we found each other there, and moved here too. I still read BNR.

Have been wondering, tho still very hopeful on collecting more delegates, should be a good weekend, what happens at & after the convention.
With the Phenomenal online organization, the money, and people - would a write in campaign be a viable option?
Nice to know I can voice that here - and not gt my head chopped off! Feel free to say - NO, YOU JERK! But still, I'm not saying anything is over, even if the convention does nominate Hillary Windsock Clinton.

President Sanders: an idea whose time has come

Submitted by WoodsDweller on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 1:30pm

Or, to put it another way...

There is a political class, it spans both parties, and Markos seems to want to crash the gates to be part of that class. I also don't think they will let him in, but they may regard him as a useful tool. The interests of the members of the political class are overwhelmingly similar, despite ideological differences. When someone says "there isn't any difference between the parties" that's what they are talking about, not that one nominally supports Social Security while the other wants to gut it.

In general, if you’re resorting to cheap sloganeering like “oligarch” or “warmonger” or “neocon” - Markos

You see, "oligarch" is a cheap slogan, not an insightful observation of the political class. Don't mention the oligarchy. They need to remain in the shadows to be most effective. Only look at their carefully crafted public facade and cheer as they wave from the balcony and deliver focus group tested applause lines.
Trump, while certainly part of the sociopathic billionaire class, has not been part of the political class. He was a funder (which he frequently mentions). The political class are appalled that he can simply buy himself into power. Did they really never think of that? Funders generally have better things to do than exercise power directly, they use their minions in the political class for that sort of thing. Funders call the shots, the political class exercises the power while answering to the funders. In this case, Trump is slashing the workforce by cutting out the corrupt middleman.

—

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Submitted by dkmich on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 1:11pm

I think he is owned lock, stock and barrel by the

Democratic Party. Is it CT? I don't think so, and even it was, you can talk about it here. Rigged voting, 911 - nothing is taboo.

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 1:34pm

Markos' owners

I think he is owned lock, stock and barrel by the Democratic Party.

The pseudo-Democratic Party, you mean.

Turd Wayers (like anything Clinton, and apparently like Markos himself) are Republicans. And would to Cat they'd exercise a bit of "Truth in Advertising" and go back to being Rs like they want to be.

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by k9disc on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 11:00pm

Owners on Paper and in Charge as long as nobody

asks for the paperwork...

Kind of reminds me of the mortgage owners foreclosing on people when they didn't even have the paperwork or a signature for the home.

I wonder if there is some kind of simple, common sense question that could throw their "ownership" of the party into the national focus.

—

“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Submitted by stevej on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 1:15pm

One person's CT

is another's Occam's razor and I am with Occam on this one

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

Submitted by Blasphemy101 on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 3:00pm

Occam;s Razor has rarely

Occam;s Razor has rarely steered me wrong. Same with my gut feeling. Something is up with Kos

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War, War Never Changes - Fallout Series

Submitted by Shahryar on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 12:35pm

the advantage of saying everything

is that you and your supporters can claim you are on the correct side of the issue. "I'm a proud centrist". "I'm a progressive!" You can be quoted everywhere, agreeing with everyone.

Submitted by joe shikspack on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 12:59pm

absolutely shahryar, hillary has said and will say anything...

to get elected:

"My political beliefs are rooted in the conservatism that I was raised with. ... I'm very proud that I was a Goldwater girl."

"I'm accused of being kinda moderate and centrist. I plead guilty."

"I consider myself a modern progressive."

"I don't take a backseat to anyone when it comes to progressive experience and progressive commitment."

Submitted by thanatokephaloides on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 1:37pm

how many sides does Hillary's mouth have, anyway?

And she seems to be talking out of all of them at once, too!

—

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Submitted by Quilldriver on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 9:44pm

I love Bernie's counter punches.

I think if you're gonna get paid $225k for a speech it must be a good speech—Shakespearian. I can't wait to read it.https://t.co/N86ByFUUZD

— Bernie Sanders (@BernieSanders) March 6, 2016

Submitted by don mikulecky on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 12:51pm

hello

true to form...good to see you here

—

An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the time. It stands or it falls on its own merits.

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 6:12pm

good to see you Don!

Welcome to the refuge!

—

"the Democratic Party is not 'left'." -- Sabrina Salvati

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 1:14pm

Party loyalty calls don't make sense this year

Counterpunch article

Loyalty to political parties that stand for something, or that stood for something once upon a time, something worth caring about, would be understandable. But Democrats and Republicans stand for nothing except getting in each other’s way. If they ever stood for anything loftier than that, no one still living remembers.
....
Still, all is not well in the Democratic Party’s neoliberal-liberal imperialist world. The Clintonites know that hardly anybody likes their candidate. They realize too that a lot of people are “feeling the Bern.” Perhaps they also understand that there are many of us who would rather swim through vomit than cast a vote for any Clintonite, much less for Hillary.
And so, they are putting out the word: that it will soon be time for all good women (and men) to come to the aid of the party.

This is not exactly an appeal to loyalty for loyalty’s sake. It is just the lesser evil argument that has been sustaining the Democratic Party for as long as anyone can remember, gussied up with some patently false, but widely held, assumptions about that wretched party’s seemingly inevitable standard bearer.
...
Calls for party loyalty emanating out of Democratic Party leadership circles appeal to false beliefs (about Hillary Clinton) and muddled thinking (about the urgency of lesser evil voting). This is pathetic, but at least the diagnosis is clear.
On the Republican side, the situation is harder to understand.
...
Liberals who will be calling on Sanders supporters to remain loyal to the Democratic Party may not realize it, but it is far from obvious that her politics really is less “conservative,” in the GOP-Rubio sense, than Trump’s.

As has been noted many times, on many issues — including trade policies, overseas interventions, health care reform and according Israeli ethnocrats carte blanche support –Trump may actually be the less retrograde of the two. He is certainly less inclined to coddle Wall Street and to accord its criminal sector de facto immunity from prosecution.

Submitted by dkmich on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 1:13pm

Not with Hillary....

If she had an R after her name, she'd be the most dangerous one on the GOP debate stage.

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by Shahryar on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 1:19pm

"What if Hillary were a Republican?"

She'd be the toughest one. She'd want to get rid of Obamacare. She might say it doesn't matter if Obama is American or Kenyan, he shouldn't be allowed to select a new Justice.

She'd be the smartest one and she'd be the nominee. And all the Joebots would hate her.

Submitted by dsdrown on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 1:24pm

Not with Hillary

I work with high-paid professionals. Many who I know voted for Romney, went to an HRC fundraising event for this professional group (lawyers). The price of the ticket was $2,700 (which got you a photograph of yourself shaking her hand).

She is definitely appealing to high-paid professionals in many institutions. Because she will work to advance all their interests. It is as plain as the nose on your face. I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone would believe otherwise.

Submitted by LakeHillsLiberal on Sun, 03/06/2016 - 7:35pm

It's about taxes and regulation...

Clinton will not raise their taxes which Bernie will and he will absolutely regulate and go after corruption. Clinton will triangulate away from any promises she made during the campaign. I just listened to her say she would do something about lead pipes.....those pipes were in place during her husbands administration and no one did a thing. Our infrastructure has been is a state of decay since the 1980's....no one has done a thing. They would rather fight wars.

Submitted by Unabashed Liberal on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 2:12pm

Romney's remarks pointed to concern that Trump is not neoliberal

enough--for the One Percent, or the PtB.

So, yes, the CounterPunch quote below, is fairly accurate.

As has been noted many times, on many issues — including trade policies, overseas interventions, health care reform and according Israeli ethnocrats carte blanche support –Trump may actually be the less retrograde of the two. He is certainly less inclined to coddle Wall Street and to accord its criminal sector de facto immunity from prosecution.

I mentioned two issues the other day, as to 'why' (I thought) so many Reagan Dems have thrown their support behind DT. Ironically, of all the folks, it was Mitt Romney who affirmed my suspicions. He is clearly concerned that DT's stances on 'trade' and 'cutting entitlements' is not neoliberal, enough.

Here's a link to the transcript of his remarks, and an excerpt, below.

. . . Let me put it plainly, if we Republicans choose Donald Trump as our nominee, the prospects for a safe and prosperous future are greatly diminished.

Let me explain why.

First, the economy: If Donald Trump's plans were ever implemented, the country would sink into a prolonged recession.

A few examples: His proposed 35% tariff-like penalties would instigate a trade war that would raise prices for consumers, kill export jobs, and lead entrepreneurs and businesses to flee America.

His tax plan, in combination with his refusal to reform entitlements and to honestly address spending would balloon the deficit and the national debt.

So even as Donald Trump has offered very few specific economic plans, what little he has said is enough to know that he would be very bad for American workers and for American families.

Yeah, we got your number Mitt. Guess that thinking fits with your opinion that:

[video:https://youtu.be/slFZ8K2aBoY width:560 height:315]

Whew!

All these technocratic corporatist neoliberals are SO disgusting!

[Note: 'Regulars' know that, if anything, I'm left of the late Howard Zinn. So my comments about DT's, or any Republican candidates', stances that may be somewhat progressive, should NOT be taken as an endorsement of that candidate. Mr M and I have 'suffered through' watching all of the Presidential Debates, though; so, if I see that talking heads are spinning the candidate's stances in either Party, I don't hesitate to correct the record.]

If Bernie is knocked out of the race, I will not pull the lever for any neoliberal candidate. It's simply a matter of conscience.

But, as they say--"to each, their own."

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I'm still hearing reporters (on XM) say that they believe Biden is waiting in the wings, in case FSC implodes due to the FBI/Justice Department/IG investigations.

I don't know 'how' the logistics of him filing to run this late, would even work. But, I do fear, that like the Repub Establishment, the Dem Party Establishment 'might' step in, and try to foil Bernie's chances, if he were to appear to be overtaking FSC.

Guess time will tell.

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Submitted by BrutallyHonest on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 1:24pm

Our own demand

I understand the need and necessity for people to grieve the situation with DKos. However, can we all agree that after we have created a post, or made a comment that is cathartic, that we work to make this site a great place for people who want to have open and interesting debates? I plan on posting more diverse posts starting next week. One of which will delve into the world of competitive Jump Rope.

Also for those of us who actively support and want Bernie Sanders to win, lets provide ourselves with the best revenge by making sure that best candidate, Bernie Sanders, wins the nomination and then the election.

Submitted by hecate on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 3:14pm

agreed

The Li'l Markos place, that now seeks to shove people into the boneyard, it is, itself, a boneyard.

Bury it deep.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5MAjKXnh28]

Submitted by joe shikspack on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 4:48pm

evening brutally honest...

i like the way that you think, it's good for folks to move on as quickly as they can because there is stuff to be done. it may, however take some folks a considerable period of time to get over their anger at dkos, some of the things that happen there leave scars.

Submitted by jamess on Sat, 03/05/2016 - 1:32pm