well well well

In a statement posted to Medium on Saturday morning, the general counsel for Hillary for America announced the campaign would get behind recounts in Pennsylvania and Michigan should Green Party candidate Jill Stein make good on her promise to look into voting totals in those states.

According to attorney Marc Erik Elias, the campaign has been reviewing their options since the loss to GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump, including allegations of tampering.

“It should go without saying that we take these concerns extremely seriously. We certainly understand the heartbreak felt by so many who worked so hard to elect Hillary Clinton, and it is a fundamental principle of our democracy to ensure that every vote is properly counted,” he wrote. “Since the day after the election we have had lawyers and data scientists and analysts combing over the results to spot anomalies that would suggest a hacked result. These have included analysts both from within the campaign and outside, with backgrounds in politics, technology and academia.”

Outlining the steps they taken, Elias wrote that, while they have not uncovered “actionable evidence of hacking or outside attempts to alter the voting technology,” the success of Green Party candidate Jill Stein to successfully launch a recount in Wisconsin has made them reconsider joining in.

raw story has it

Smithers!! Release the hounds!

BRING BACK BERNIE! Smile

(the real one not the hijacked version)

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I am trying to find some way not to give up on Green Party.
Stein seems to have "screwed the pooch, jumped the shark, eaten a big one, and just royally f***ed up".

Or it could be a great move, but I have my doubts.
I am sick of pols I support making "great moves" I can't understand.
Rats.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

She wants to preserve her credibility as an anti-duopoly, anti-corruption advocate while she takes an action which, if it does anything, can only help to install a fraudulent loser in the White House.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

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This is why I think they're doing it. If they find something "nefarious" enough to cast doubt on all states' election results (same statistical anomolies) then they could make a case to the electors that the election was illegitimate and they (electors) must vote their conscience.

Anyone else see it?

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lunachickie's picture

so much do I dread this. But it's occurred to me more than once, too.

And that's why I'm so hopping angry about the whole thing. That and the notion that I live smack in the fucking middle of Trump Country. I am livid at some folks "Who cares if it installs Clinton?" attitude, mostly because I feel like that's the ONLY reason it's a possibility at all, it has nothing to do with Jill Stein or her integrity, or the integrity of our elections. It's all about HER.

Seriously, people. If Donald Trump had lost, do you think we'd be having this discussion? I seriously doubt it.

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Alligator Ed's picture

Republican state electors will not have sudden pangs of conscience (an oxymoron really). Trump wins regardless of "the vote"

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If the vote was shown to be rigged. It would be new territory, Constitutionally.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

lunachickie's picture

the Electoral College didn't rig the vote, so it's not "illegitimate" as much as it is "a moot point".

All the more reason not to just ram this thing through.

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sojourns's picture

Clinton's sudden pivot to support the recount may be because if something does show up that may implicate further foul play on Clinton's part, this would be her and her team of lawyers only means to alter the recount?

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

lunachickie's picture

because there was at least one report of a precinct captain busting someone with a bunch of blank ballots somewhere.

Where? I don't know. Link? Don't have one, there are hundreds of thousands of precincts. But just imagine what a bunch of blank ballots can have done to them. Know, too, that they're not always dated. So there's that.

this would be her and her team of lawyers only means to alter the recount

There were too many people watching on Election Night, they knew Trump was polling far better and they knew they couldn't steal it then, by, say, magically Finding Boxes of Uncounted Ballots.

And after Trump was declared the winner, it all should have been over. And everybody quit watching.

And now--oh, look! It's not over!

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sojourns's picture

I don't need the link to believe you. Smile

There's enough of that lawyerly bs over at TOP.

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Lady Libertine's picture

has crossed my mind

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mouselander's picture

to see how many C99'ers are actually living on Planet Earth.

Nothing beats a good poll to take the pulse of a community.

What are the chances that a recount will result in Hillary Clinton becoming president?

A - 50 percent or better
B - Greater than 10% but less than 50
C - 1 to 10 percent
D - Significantly less than 1 chance in 100

Poll Maker

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inactive account

will you please cut the arrogant, condescending tone towards other members of this board only because they disagree with you. I've watched you do this for 3 days now and it's getting old.

I also saw the insulting comments directed at detroitmechworks 3 days ago, that you then proceeded to redact. Yes, I did read them before you redacted them.

Please stop.

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mouselander's picture

that the condescending crap is mostly coming from others, and I'm responding to it in a pretty measured way. Exactly why I deleted those comments you referred to. Since I don't agree with your characterization, let me tell you that I don't plan on changing anything.

If you're one of the mods here and wish me to remove my unwanted presence, let me know and I will be happy to oblige. All of the pro-Trump, anti-Stein bullshit I've been reading here has been making me somewhat nauseous in any case. If this is what passes for the "Left" in Cyberland, then I guess I'm going to have to start rethinking my political affiliations.

Thanks much for your input.

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inactive account

Deja's picture

I also see the anti Jill shit. See the anti Bernie shit too, but I don't get condescending. We can't - no, we WON'T - turn c99 into shithole DKos (filled with holier-than-thous talking down to everyone with a differing opinion.)

I've both loved and hated comments from you. We won't always all agree, but we have to remain civil. We really are on the same team. Don't go.

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mouselander's picture

shows how much attention I pay to the nuts and bolts stuff.

Anyway, I appreciate your (qualified) endorsement, but if the site owner finds my tone objectionable - whereas I consider that I've been one of the better actors here overall - then in my book that pretty much fits the definition of irreconcilable differences.

Sometimes you just have to face up to the fact that finding common ground is impossible, and it's best to turn the page and move on. Looks to me like it's time to get outta Dodge.

Happy Trails.

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inactive account

Cachola's picture

Before he addressed you I attempted to send you a private message asking you not to address us in such an arrogant way. I did not use the word condescending because sometimes English words escape me but I do find you condescending. I don't know what happened to the message. When I checked to see if I had an answer it was not there.

JtC saw your tone same as I did. And no, we did not communicate and agree to chide you. This was done independently of each other.

I am only chiming in because I don't think anyone wants you to leave or even make different or fewer arguments. Just to watch your tone, but how can you do that if you are not aware?

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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

mouselander's picture

I never received any private message from you - if I had, I would have responded.

Anyway, at the end of the day I guess I just don't feel very connected to this community anymore. Too many people who just seem to be in a different universe politically. When you have the sense that there is virtually no common ground whatever, communication seems kind of pointless. No hard feelings about it, but I feel there are better options for me out there.

Peace.

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inactive account

I'm only asking you to tone it down.

Yes, you have been one of the most measured here up until this recount issue flared. I couldn't believe you were acting that way that's why I put up with it for 3 days before I finally said something.

But I'm not going to beg you to stay, especially if you have no plans to stop the attitude.

Folks, yesterday I left a comment in another "recount" essay:

http://caucus99percent.com/comment/216873#comment-216873

Oh man...

not again. How many times do we have to have this argument?

This is exactly what I meant. By rehashing this essay after essay are we going to have any affect at all on the recount? No. So why do we keep going on with this, dividing the site, at each others throats over something we cant control.

Why?

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Big Al's picture

and they either can't help themselves or they don't know it.

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elenacarlena's picture

JtC, but my guess is that the posters didn't see the similar posts. Personally, I tend not to write about stuff I've already seen well written about.

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

dance you monster's picture

They know it's repetitious. The outrage vituperation passion cannot find enough outlet in one thread, or two, or three.

And that's the one argument I find against the recounts that has some validity: the mere contemplation of it extends a season of personality-based outrage instead of just letting us all concentrate on how the next administration will screw us and what we should be doing about that.

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it's doing a great job of dividing this community. Folks that are generally mild mannered turning to vitriol. To what end?

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dance you monster's picture

. . . but I think you may have to step in more visibly to decide where you want your site to head.

Before the Ides influx this was an issues-based site. Now it's dominated by personality- or party-based politics. The election was the source of much of the latter's energy, but it doesn't look to be diminishing. For many this has been going on too long.

I'm not sure that singling out mouselander, who's simply gotten pissed off at the tone of the personality-obsessed and didn't play as nice as we'd like, is the way to define the site. And honestly, the ill-mannered tone was flying in all directions.

It's your site, your call.

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Anja Geitz's picture

Seems to be leaking over into personal messages too. I received a foul mouthed "response" to a comment I made that was akin to dropping a nuclear bomb on someone holding a squirt gun. Disproportional is an understatement.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

elenacarlena's picture

Only for organization, agreement, or if you need to gently and privately tell someone something negative. YMMV.

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

Anja Geitz's picture

Seems intrusively heavy handed. Then again, some people have anger and impulse control issues. Whaddya gonna do? *shrug*

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

Deja's picture

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lunachickie's picture

breaks your heart, doesn't it?

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Lookout's picture

http://trustvote.org/latest-update/

Agree or disagree, but be informed. Jill and Trustvote are working together on this recount. Someone here clued me in.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Wink's picture

about.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

but if we don't take this out of the realm of loyalty to politicians, we're going to get nowhere.

I voted for Stein in both 2012 and 2016. I was intending to Demexit right into the Green party, which I did once before (2001-2005). I've never been against the Greens or Stein.

But the fact is that this move is at best hideous strategy based on conceptions of reality that are out of touch with the level of corruption we currently face. At best it suggests a frightening level of naivete on the part of those pushing the move (Stein and others) and at worst, it suggests that Clinton forces are puppeting Stein.

I have to be able to acknowledge that possibility without it making me a traitor to Stein, to the Greens, a shithead who supports Trump, or any other version of what being a bad person is in left-wing circles.

We must get beyond personalities and loyalty and focus on what's actually surrounding us.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Alligator Ed's picture

Due to the Electoral College and the rampant bipartisan election corruption, it will be impossible for HRC to claim the election was hacked--after all, didn't Barack say before this election that "It is impossible to corrupt national elections in the United States"?

But, politicians are rarely bothered by inconsistency, so HRC's many PACs suddenly provided formerly respectable Jill Stein (for whom I voted) oodles of cash--more than her pre-election finances to proceed on a Quixotic quest to right electoral wrongs in the US versus the likely meaning: install Medusa in the White House.

Woe be to you, Killary, if even one state should flip your way due to a recount. You will then feel the full force and vengeance of the Hairball. He will suddenly realize that you haven't suffered enough and maybe Jeff Session will get the green light to put your ass in prison.

So, Hillary, I do hope your finance recount does flip one state your way. Then one small semblance of justice might be served.

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"So HRC's many PACs suddenly provided...oodles of cash"

Also, did you mean PAC or Superpacs? There is quite a difference.

For the record I donated to the recount & I'm neither.

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I suggest that, if you haven't already, try thinking about all this from Stein and the Green party's perspective.

Potential Benefits

1) Future vote gains. Third Parties stand absolutely no chance of even getting 5% if election fraud exists (which clearly it does).

2) Major election reform. Third Parties stand to gain a whole bunch, possibly the most, from any kind of comprehensive election reform

3) Minor election reform. Third Parties stand to gain from even minor reform at the state level.

4) Exposure. Third Parties suffer from lack of name recognition

5) Affecting change. Third Parties existence are usually more about affecting change than winning.

Risks

1) Activist backlash. One needs to not look any farther than this site.

2) Major turmoil if #3. However, note that this is not necessarily a risk for Stein or the Green party.

Given these 5 points (I'm sure others can think of more) and very few risks, it is a no brainer that you would want to challenge results. Note that there is precedent for green party candidates funding recounts.

Funds

There are simply not enough purists out there to fund it alone.

They need to piggyback on backers of a major candidate. Given the enormity of the Clinton's supporters angst this is a perfect opportunity. It makes sense to go full bore after them. You do this by picking the states that would benefit them and give them a 'chance'. Some have said, why not choose 1 swing, 1 red, 1 blue state? Sure that does makes some sense but that would destroy the funding aspect of it. You would not get the distraught clinton backers. They need to a have 'chance' to win.

Outcomes

The most likely outcome is minor issues that get soon forgotten about and are only really talked about on blogs like C99. This may lead to #3 listed above (which is a small step towards #5). Just like 2004. It may also lead to more awareness, which creates more people who would fund recounts or election integrity issues in the future, again number 5.

If for some reason massive fraud was actually discovered (existence and discovery are two different things). #2 happens big time which may lead to #1. As does #5. #4 also happens a little bit more.

Any way you look at it #4 happens at least a very little bit. That one is a long hard uphill slog.

...

Simply put this is in their best interests. They are leveraging their interests being inline with others as well. It makes perfect sense from their perspective.

EDITS: sorry, had some edits just to clean some stuff up

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It's true right now like it was back then. The old devils are at it again. When I say devil you know who I mean these animals in the dark malicious politicians with nefarious schemes charlatans and crooked cops. - 'Old Devils' William Elliot Whitmore

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

of accuracy or justice. Not with the political, legal, and media systems we have.

The last time this was tried, we got the Help America Vote Act, which used the existence of disabled voters as an excuse for putting touchscreen voting machines everywhere.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

I don't get the negative response to Jill Stein on this. I'm thrilled to see her doing this. It damned sure won't come from the Republicans or the Democrats; both parties are vested in keeping the current clusterfuck in place. Even if the only result is to add impetus to a demand for paper ballots and hand counting of same, it will be a positive result.

I'd also be fine with a mob going after electronic voting machines and tabulators with clubs. In fact, I'd cheer them on.

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As stated by CSTS, one of the problems I see is that the narrative we receive will likely be cleansed of any wrongdoing by the Clinton team and the DNC. (I realize that is redundant.) The Clinton's and their foundation appear to be above the law. How can you trust any recount voting results? There seems to be as many ways to taint/distort/massage or argue these potential results as there are ways to steal the election. Define objective for me. I wish this would lead to fairer elections in the future, but I don't see the potential for less corruption as part of this storyline. I tell you, this acceptance of the propaganda about Russian interference is scaring me.

To JtC - I value this site for many reasons. One is that I feel safe coming here to voice my feelings of being overwhelmed by what I see unfolding in the US and the world right now - my questions, my concerns, fears and hopes. I really, really need to read other voices calmly discuss these issues to help level my mind and emotions. I think I would otherwise cry. I agree that we need to also be talking about what we do from here. How we cast our passions towards ideas and actions that support better possibilities and a future that is less desperate and more connected. We need to remember that the more we allow ourselves to be divided, the more likely the concentration of power/money/resources within the oligarchy will solidify, leaving less and less for the rest of us. Which of course, will lead to more divisions and infighting with those to whom we need to be building bridges.

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I have decided nothing I think about it will stop it. It will happen. Whether I am thrilled or pissed, it is going to happen.
It is time I think about something else.
If one positive change in our voting system improves, I will be glad. (Surprised as all hell, but still glad.)
Our input might have been worthwhile before the recount petitions were served.
Our input was not requested.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Alligator Ed's picture

I am not the only one who believes that Clinton may be entering the Lion's Den bychallenging the election via recount.

An article published on Yahoo today: Clinton playing with fire lends creedence to my theory that should even one state's voting result overturn a Trump win in that state, she will find herself with a session with A.G. Sessions. Darnold does not do well with what he regards as personal effrontery. Words immediately come to mind: Special Prosecutor. But of course Hillary is so arrogant, she will not entertain the thought of desisting from the misguided Quixotic quest for meaningful election result change.

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