Well an American grand jury has indicted 13 Russians for interfering with the US election

So, should every country who’s elections we’ve interfered with do the same?

Special counsel Mueller: Russians conducted 'information warfare' against US during election to help Donald Trump win

•Special counsel Robert Mueller said a grand jury had indicted 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities for alleged interference in the 2016 presidential election

•The defendants allegedly conducted "information warfare" against the United States election process to help Donald Trump win.

•The defendants used fake American personas, social media platforms, and other Internet media to advance their scheme, according to an indictment.

*

Rosenstein said there is no allegation in the indictment that any American was a knowing participant in the scheme, nor is there any allegation that the scheme affected the outcome of the election.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/16/russians-indicted-in-special-counsel-rob...

No collusion? What happenef to that? And I can’t wait to see how Mueller pulls off their extradition.

EDIT: typo

up
18 users have voted.

Comments

seems to me. How does one illegally use the internet to influence? Boy, I almost can't wait to hear the explanation of that.

up
15 users have voted.

@lizzyh7
I don't know why it's so hard to believe this is real. It doesn't mean that Hillary wasn't an awful candidate who hijacked the DNC for her own purposes. I think there's too much apologizing for Putin by pointing to others, like Hillary, here.

up
2 users have voted.

Beware the bullshit factories.

@Timmethy2.0 for Putin crapola. And then head on over to the Intercept today and read James Risen, my God I used to trust that guy and have at least one of his books, but apparently he's decided he now wants to rejoin the MSM and is once again trumpeting how all the shit we've had thrown at us "proves" Trump is a traitor. Talk about gaslighting much? I will no longer check the Intercept at all, I already knew some of their writers were shills but to see Risen buy into it, well perhaps I am the naïve one to think we even have anyone left in this country with a functioning brain.

Just what does Russia gain from this? Destroying American Democracy? PLEASE. I would LOVE someone to answer that question with some kind of coherent answer. But that's not to be, nope, instead we're going to war with Russia because we elected a fucking moron to the White House all by ourselves but we certainly cannot admit that. We cannot admit that the moron was countered by one more warmongering America Firster who had a little bit better rhetoric but who at the end of the day is made of exactly the same ugly shit as the moron. USA, USA, USA!!!!

up
19 users have voted.
Pluto's Republic's picture

@lizzyh7

...with Reality Winner's life.

up
5 users have voted.

________________________

While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. — Eugene Debs, 1918

snoopydawg's picture

@lizzyh7

His hit job on Assange didn't go over well either on the Intercept or Twitter. Mr. eBay has always been a member of the 1% percent. The Intercept was created to write about the Snowden files. When's the last time they wrote anything about them? It more like they have buried them. Greenwald is included in this.

up
5 users have voted.

Sessions would have taken Jesus away from his homeless refugee parents

@lizzyh7
A feeling I would share.

Just what does Russia gain from this?

Sometimes I feel like saying that Putin messed with our system is like saying I saw the abominable snowman here. I just want to know wtf is going on in our country and just because our government f**ked with other people doesn't make it ok for the Russian government to mess with us.

up
0 users have voted.

Beware the bullshit factories.

Amanda Matthews's picture

@Timmethy2.0 @Timmethy2.0

It looks foolish to point fingers at someone else when you’re doing the same damn thing. More often and against more countries.

We ALL want safety and security. But that’s not the way it is. It’s a cruel world full of flawed individuals. Maybe if we expect ethical behavior from others, we should have shown some ourselves somewhere along the way, but we didn’t. Ask the Iranian or the Honduran people. We left them at the mercy of some cruel thuggish people after our CIA helped overthrow Mosaddegh
in 1953 and the Obama admin supported the narco-terrorists that overthrew Zelaya in Honduras in 2009.

We’re simply getting a dose of what we dealt out to others. It doesn’t make me happy either. But I understand why it’s happening.

EDIT: typo

up
3 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

@lizzyh7

Agree overall, albeit with a caveat: the other moron had long since promised Her donors that Bibi would be, immediately upon Her assuming Her throne, brought in for consultation and to institute that cherished illegally-US PTB-imposed Syrian 'no-fly zone' to have 'an excuse' to shoot down Russian planes invited in by the Syrian government - while the US military was not and has been asked to leave - to fight terrorists of the sort which the US PTB had (at American taxpayer expense) variously trained/armed/funded/worked with/was supportive of/complicit in bringing in, in order to (at American taxpayers expense) illegally overthrow another government of another people's country, to force in their own puppet-government to do their corporate/billionaire bidding. Trump at least slowed things down a bit, in that area, for a while.

And I also seriously do not think that voters count beyond the facade of plausibility, especially since the Electoral College (abruptly switching to Trump from Hillary, just as various billionaires variously announced that they gave up on the Dems and needed a 'new brand') was used to override what was said to be the popular vote... there is no legitimate US government, of, by and for the people, guaranteeing equal rights, treatment and opportunity for all, throughout all States of the Union.

An undeniable landslide for Progs only might work, despite all this, if organizing for something like a nation-wide strategic vote was started immediately, before more 'laws' are passed in more places to make this impossible or the pretense of elections stops entirely, but even here, people are divided, something that's been carefully ingrained over decades into the American public consciousness ...

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@Timmethy2.0 @Timmethy2.0

The indictment says that a Russian organization called the Internet Research Agency sought to wage "information warfare" against the United States by using fictitious American personas and social media platforms and other Internet-based media.

While that effort was launched in 2014, by early to mid-2016 the defendants were "supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump ... and disparaging Hillary Clinton," the indictment charges.

As part of those efforts, the defendants also encouraged minority groups to either not vote for in the election or to vote for a third-party candidate. Both actions would have hurt Clinton, who received significant support from minority voters.

And after the election of Trump as president in November 2016, the defendants used fake personas to organize and coordinate political rallies in support of Trump, while also doing the same to create rallies "protesting the results" of the election, the indictment said.

On one day, Nov. 12, 2016, the defendants organized a rally in New York to "show your support for President-elect Donald Trump" while at the same time organizing a "Trump is NOT my president rally" that also was held in New York.

Mueller wants to criminalize political rallies and online election advocacy by anyone not a US citizen.

And somehow you think Putin is the problem?

up
19 users have voted.

"Friends don't let friends Russiagate." - Caitlin Johnstone

@Not Henry Kissinger @Not Henry Kissinger

As part of those efforts, the defendants also encouraged minority groups to either not vote for in the election or to vote for a third-party candidate. Both actions would have hurt Clinton, who received significant support from minority voters.

It’s that damn assumption that the Dems own minority votes again! Why is this never called out for the offensive and, yes, racist idea that it is?

Edit: and they aren’t even claiming that they can prove the efforts changed voting! FFS!

up
8 users have voted.
Amanda Matthews's picture

@Timmethy2.0

The U.S. has a long history of attempting to influence presidential elections in other countries – it's done so as many as 81 times between 1946 and 2000, according to a database amassed by political scientist Dov Levin of Carnegie Mellon University.

That number doesn't include military coups and regime change efforts following the election of candidates the U.S. didn't like, notably those in Iran, Guatemala and Chile. Nor does it include general assistance with the electoral process, such as election monitoring.

*

The U.S. hasn't been the only one trying to interfere in other countries' elections, according to Levin's data. Russia attempted to sway 36 foreign elections from the end of World War II to the turn of the century – meaning that, in total, at least one of the two great powers of the 20th century intervened in about 1 of every 9 competitive, national-level executive elections in that time period.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-us-intervention-foreign-elections-20...

FLASHBACK: TIME Magazine In 1996 Bragged About How U.S. Interfered In Russian Election

*

And Clinton was involved.

Communicating in code — Clinton was called the Governor of California, Yeltsin the Governor of Texas — the Americans sought Morris' help. They had earlier worked together to script Clinton's summit meeting with Yeltsin in mid-April. The main goal then was to have Clinton swallow hard and say nothing as Yeltsin lectured him about Russia's great-power prerogatives. "The idea was to have Yeltsin stand up to the West, just like the Communists insisted they would do if Zyuganov won," says a Clinton Administration official. "By having Yeltsin posture during that summit without Clinton's getting bent out of shape, Yeltsin portrayed himself as a leader to be reckoned with. That helped Yeltsin in Russia, and we were for Yeltsin."

The American team wanted Clinton to call Yeltsin to urge that he appear in his ads. The request reached Clinton — that much is known — but no one will say whether the call was made.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/18593/flashback-time-magazine-1996-bragge...

Golly! It was Slick Willie Clinton who interfered with the Russian election. And now it’s his bitter half and her crowd that’s whining that she lost for the same reason. And she had a phony Dosdirr doctored up as proof.

And you REALLY need to pay attention to Rosenstein’s very own words:

Rosenstein said there is no allegation in the indictment that any American was a knowing participant in the scheme, nor is there any allegation that the scheme affected the outcome of the election.

up
13 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

dkmich's picture

@Timmethy2.0

First, all the facts aren't out. Second, 13 nationals and three entities don't necessarily equal Russian state government. I now have dual citizenship. So does that mean I have to quit rabble rousing for a particular candidate on the internet or the Italian government will be responsible?

Do I believe that some foreigners trolled the internet just like David Brock's trolls trolled Bernie? Yes. Do I believe there are all sorts of money laundering deals going down between foreign states and our crooked politicians? Absolutely. What I don't yet believe is that the Russian government did anything untoward with our elections that we and they haven't done before. I don't believe that Russia made Trump win or Hillary lose, AND there still isn't an iota of evidence that Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta emails.

up
14 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

Amanda Matthews's picture

@lizzyh7

they go.

Like I said, how’s the extraditions gonna fly?

If I were a Russian this would be hilarious. For us, it’s a disaster.

up
8 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

@Amanda Matthews

... If I were a Russian this would be hilarious. For us, it’s a disaster.

Actually, the Russian people - who also defeated the invasion of (and essentially the first attempt of global domination by) the Nazis at great cost and will not again wait to be attacked in their home country - have again been living with the threat of the lunatic US Psychopaths That Be dropping nukes on their heads at any moment, since they looooove their delicious mass-murders and other abuses of attacked/invaded/dispossessed civilian populations, and I don't expect that that's very amusing for the people there.

From 2016 (emphasis mine):

https://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/russia-conducts-nuclear-drill-wit...

Russia Conducts “Nuclear Drill” With 40 Million As U.S. Pushes for War in Syria
Tyler Durden
October 4th, 2016
Zero Hedge

...40 Million Russians To Take Part In “Nuclear Disaster” Drill, Days After US General Warns Of War With Moscow

by Tyler Durden

As relations between Russia and the US disintegrate as a result of the escalating proxy war in Syria, which today culminated with Putin halting a Plutonium cleanup effort with the US, shortly before the US State Department announced it would end negotiations with Russia over Syria, tomorrow an unprecedented 40 million Russian citizens, as well as 200,000 specialists from “emergency rescue divisions” and 50,000 units of equipment are set to take part in a four day-long civil defense, emergency evacuation and disaster preparedness drill, the Russian Ministry for Civil Defense reported on its website. ...

... The fact that among the measures tasked for the civil defense team will be a response to “disasters and fires” as well as the rehearsal of “radiation, chemical and biological protection”, makes it clear that Russia is about to hold its biggest nuclear war drill since perhaps the end of the Cold War.

Why now? Perhaps, in addition to the sharp deterioration in relations between Russia and the west, where tensions are on par with the cold war, another answer may come from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Joseph Dunford, who last week warned Congress that the implementation of a No Fly Zone in Syria as proposed by John Kerry recently, and a centerpiece of Hillary’s foreign policy strategy, would result in World War III.

During testimony before the Senate Committee on Armed Services last week General Joseph Dunford rang the alarm over a policy shift that is gaining more traction within the halls of Washington following the collapse of the ceasefire brokered by the United States and Russia in Syria saying that it could result in a major international war which he was not prepared to advocate on behalf of. Senator Roger Wicker of Mississippi asked about Hillary Clinton’s proposal for a no fly zone in Syria in response to allegations that Russia and Syria have intensified their aerial bombardment of rebel-held East Aleppo since the collapse of the ceasefire.

“What about the option of controlling the airspace so that barrel bombs cannot be dropped? What do you think of that option?” asked Wicker. “Right now, Senator, for us to control all of the airspace in Syria would require us to go to war against Syria and Russia. That is a pretty fundamental decision that certainly I’m not going to make,” said the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff suggesting the policy was too hawkish even for military leaders.

As a reminder, Hillary Clinton strongly argued in favor of a no fly zone ever since October 2015, just days after Russia began a bombing campaign aimed at maintaining the stability of the Syrian government. “I personally would be advocating now for a no fly zone and humanitarian corridors to try to stop the carnage on the ground and from the air, to try to provide some way to take stock of what’s happening, to try to stem the flow of refugees,” said Clinton in an interview with NBC in October 2015.

Despite the warnings, the former Secretary of State and current presidential candidate, who has a well-known hawkish position towards regime change and matters related to Russia, has continued to advocate this position which has gained traction in recent weeks among top US diplomats. ...

... Russia, in turn, has countered that if the Assad regime falls then terrorist groups including ISIS and al-Nusra Front will likely fill the resulting power vacuum descending the country into an even greater harbor for international terrorism. Ultimately, the Syrian conflict is fundamentally about the transport of energy, and whether Russia maintains its dominance over European natural gas imports, or if – with the Syrian regime deposed – a Qatar natural gas pipeline can cross the territory and make its way to Europe. ...

I dunno, would brutal, murderous home invaders be termed 'hawkish'? Seems they'd qualify, going by this.

Telling that she's been in there affecting policy-for-power-and-profit, especially considering that the Clintons had been out of public office for years and that The Mad Bomber would have had no chance of winning any free and fair election where non-psychopaths were permitted to run.

(And I still can't figure out how Putin hacked the multi-millionaires/billionaires and Electoral College who both dumped the Dems pretty much at the last minute, these giving Trump the Presidency over what was said to be the popular vote...)

And what's also telling is that The Psychopaths That Be have made no preparations for their fellow-citizens among The relative Poors, who can't afford/get access to luxury bunkers TPTB believe they can access in time, since they'll be the ones starting the global extinction of life on the planet and expect to have plenty of warning to be 'safe' inside a comfy cell, until the power's interrupted or their shelter's breached, or the safe water supply runs out, or any number of other things.

Apart from the radiation and various other issues, I really don't think that such as those postulated metal 'trees' as replacement for the global natural life support system are going to produce enough oxygen around the globe to replace that produced by the entire web of life, which even now, while ever-more-rapidly dying of industrial/military pollution, destruction and greed, still (while what remains survives) providing all we need to live - or to support anyone breathing out there following Mutual Assured Destruction and catastrophic global dimming for a decade or more... in other words, TPTB plan to destroy the world, including their often-stolen wealth along with the worth and concept of money, to jail themselves for however long they last, cooped up in there, as the 'victors' over human-kind and life itself. But I suppose, in their view, at least there'll be nobody else left to have anything at all, which is something they certainly seem to feel strongly about.

Also, for those in doubt about the Russiagate scam, this resource was posted on site a while ago, in another thread:

https://medium.com/@markfmccarty/the-russiagate-hoax-the-dirty-dossier-d...

Mark F. McCarty
Mark McCarty is a biomedical theoretician/applied nutritionist who occasionally dabbles in political writing when he becomes sufficiently appalled and terrified
Nov 16, 2017
The Russiagate Hoax, the Dirty Dossier, DNC Corruption, and DOJ Obstruction for Hillary — A Compendium of Sources

Just because they keep repeating the Big Lies doesn't make any of it true.

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Amanda Matthews's picture

@Ellen North

destroying OURSELVES, they’re not doing it. And the excuses our PTB use are basically ridiculously fake. And it IS funny. It’s very dark humor. Not everything is haha funny.

Look at Carlin. He made his living talking about the things people do to harm each other. And we still laugh our asses off at Carlin to this day.

For example:

up
0 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

The Aspie Corner's picture

....for rigging elections all over the world in the name of 'Murican porky interests?

up
13 users have voted.

@The Aspie Corner Because American interests are the most important thing in the world, and if you dare question that, well you are apologizing for Putin and should probably be expelled from the country, pronto. s/?

up
9 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@The Aspie Corner

13 nationals and three entities with no proof they impacted anything - pfft.

up
10 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

Pluto's Republic's picture

@dkmich

...laying all of the evidence before me, so that I can determine if he has sufficiently covered his boney white ass.

He left the FBI and the DOJ a complete shambles.

He should declare victory and get out of Dodge, pronto.

up
10 users have voted.

________________________

While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. — Eugene Debs, 1918

The Aspie Corner's picture

@dkmich Besides, if the US were held to the same standards we hold 3rd world dictatorships to with regards to international law, our government from federal to most state levels would be imprisoned. It's what they deserve.

up
5 users have voted.

Didn’t his troops of bots do precisely the same “information warfare” activities on social media?

up
18 users have voted.

@TB mare and many more than 13 of them. But...you know...it’s ok if you’re a Clinton.

up
4 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

that kicked people off the voting rolls or changed their party affiliations. Why isn't DiFi, Schif and Warner all over that, hmm?

Or where is the investigation of Hillary buy the DNC and having total control over it? I'd say that is much more of a problem that some alleged Russian bots playing on Twitter and trying to entice people to vote for Hillary or for Trump.

Even in the wording of these indictments there are wishy washy words suck as attempted to, might have and other words that only hint at something the might have done, but no proof that they did anything.

Champagne corks are popping on ToP this morning after this news came out.

up
17 users have voted.

Sessions would have taken Jesus away from his homeless refugee parents

The Aspie Corner's picture

@snoopydawg They're still pissed they didn't get their right-wing candidate into office and will take any opportunity to get their jollies, no matter how small.

up
7 users have voted.
Amanda Matthews's picture

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg

Primary where the Sanders supporters supposedly got all violent snd were ‘throwing chairs’. You know, where poor Babs Boxer was so ‘scared’.

EDIT: eas/was

up
11 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

snoopydawg's picture

@Amanda Matthews

Then there's Bill playing at the voting places in Massachusetts which is so obviously illegal, but no one said much about that when he did it. His being there disrupted the voting because his security detail had to keep people away from him and with all their vehicles in the area people couldn't find places to park. You mentioned this the other day.

The Nevada caucus vote was stolen when the No votes were much more than the Yes ones but the lady decided to go with the Yes ones. Plus she started it 30 minutes earlier and when lots of the Bernie people were still signing in.

up
8 users have voted.

Sessions would have taken Jesus away from his homeless refugee parents

Amanda Matthews's picture

@snoopydawg

the DNC just expect us to shut up, contribute, and give them our votes.

up
5 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

edg's picture

I firmly believe Russians hacked and continue to hack American computer systems and networks. That their intention was to throw the election to Trump instead of for financial gain is much, much harder to believe. Criminals go where the money is. Hacking DNC database to get rich donor info makes sense. Hacking state voter registration rolls to get SS #s and addresses for identity theft purposes makes sense. Thinking that spending a few hundred thousand bucks on an election in which the candidates spent billions made a difference reeks of insanity.

up
10 users have voted.
Amanda Matthews's picture

@edg

to this day.

The FBI Relied on a Private Firm’s Investigation of the DNC Hack—Which Makes the Agency Harder to Trust

*

Setting aside the nonsensical first half of the tweet, there’s actually an interesting question worth revisiting buried in the second half. Why wouldn’t the Democratic National Committee allow the FBI to check their servers during the investigation of the DNC breaches during the 2016 election?

The DNC maintains there’s a simple answer to this question: According to the group, the FBI never asked to see their servers. But FBI Director James Comey told the Senate Intelligence Committee back in January that the FBI did, in fact, issue “multiple requests at different levels” to the DNC to gain direct access to their computer systems and conduct their own forensic analysis.

Instead, whether because they were denied access or simply never asked for it, the FBI instead used the analysis of the DNC breach conducted by security firm CrowdStrike as the basis for its investigation. Regardless of who is telling the truth about what really happened, perhaps the most astonishing thing about this probe is that a private firm’s investigation and attribution was deemed sufficient by both the DNC and the FBI.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2017/05/09/the_fbi_is_harder_to_...

What Is CrowdStrike? Firm Hired By DNC Has Ties To Hillary Clinton, A Ukrainian Billionaire, And Google

*

In lieu of substantive evidence provided to the public that the alleged hacks which led to Wikileaks releases of DNC and Clinton Campaign Manager John Podesta’s emails were orchestrated by the Russian Government, CrowdStrike’s bias has been cited as undependable in its own assessment, in addition to its skeptical methods and conclusions. The firm’s CTO and co-founder, Dmitri Alperovitch, is a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, a think tank with openly anti-Russian sentiments that is funded by Ukrainian billionaire Victor Pinchuk, who also happened to donate at least $10 million to the Clinton Foundation.

In 2013, the Atlantic Council awarded Hillary Clinton it’s Distinguished International Leadership Award. In 2014, the Atlantic Council hosted one of several events with former Ukrainian Prime

Everything, the hacking, the collusion, this whole RUSSIA! routine is to cover for Clinton Creature/DNC corruption.

up
2 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

SnappleBC's picture

I'm trying to understand how what these evil Russians did is in any way different than what Israelis do every day. Well, except the Israelis are way more open and effective about it.

Because if we're going to get serious about foreigners interfering in our elections I'm fine with starting with these 13 Russians.... so long as we move on to the more pressing ones too.

up
1 user has voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard