Sexual harassment and the Court of Public Opinion

This Axe Swings Both Ways

This essay is a conflation of two important but somewhat related issues: the protections against gender abuse and a substitution for established legal systems. I suspect most of the comments will deal with the first issue but the second issue is actually at least as important.

This is Simply Business As Usual

With a few notable exceptions throughout history, the number of women in significant positions of power have been minimal. Cleopatra, for instance was an Egyptian Pharaoh, as were some of her non-Greek predecessors. Yet she became subordinated to men (Caesar, Antony). The appearance of women in hieroglyphics is a rarity.

Boudicca, warrior queen of the Britons, was another formidable female in governance and in battle, yet, once again defeated by another generation of Romans. Skipping a thousand years we come to Jean d'Arc, heroine of France whose inspiration defeated a formidable English army. Yet, she too, was sold out by a coward who lack both the guts and charisma she possessed.

In more modern times we come to such female giants in science as Marie Curie. Such female eminence in the sciences is gradually increasing within a relatively short period of time. Science is largely, but incompletely merit-based (a subject worthy of a different essay).

Ever since women's suffrage, the role of women in politics has gradually increased. However, in this particular area, women are just as susceptible of bribery as their male counterparts. The epitome of female corruption, of course, is H.R. Clinton.

But we are not discussing the slow improvement in the status of women throughout Western Civilization, as well as other cultures. We are discussing women (and a relatively small number of men) who are regarded as chattel, merchandise, without freewill or deserving of respect for their personage.

In modern America, this abuse has, until recently, been characterized as "business as usual": if a woman wants to "get ahead" then she must allow powerful males to abuse them in many different ways. A prime example of a woman who rose to power is Kamala Harris, about whom I have previously written. But she is a bit of an exception because her political profile has increased.

Let's talk of the accused and the accusers. In my personal and professional life, contact with abused females has occurred but such is the understandable reluctance of such people to voice their humiliating past, that only a small percentage will open up to discuss this, even with a physician. One of my very good friends, whom I have known for years, only recently confided her past abuses. This of course may have been made easier by the current unmasking of powerful individuals as sexual predators.

The past history in recent society of (usually) women reporting sexual molestation, rape and abuse has been shameful. Typically law enforcement agencies viewed these claims as not deserving further inquiry, or she wanted "it", whatever "it" was, of "they asked for it" such as by wearing certain clothing. I am not sure why the unveiling of such a vile practice (BAU) is occurring now but I certainly believe that the rape and abuse allegations against Bill Clinton, resulting in impeachment, may have helped loosed tongues heretofore silenced by fear of reprisal, shunning, loss of employment, all of which still occurs today.

I will not delve into the sociology of rape and abuse any further except as this applies to politicians.
A broad net is being utilized now to uncover perpetrators.

Al Franken, is gone from politics despite his lame rationales and Clinton-like faulty memory. In CA, a state Senator Debabneh has resigned after masturbation in front of a female staffer.

Two Texas Democratic office-holders have been asked to resign because of sexual improprieties.

Even Nancy "We Don't Need to change" Pelosi has requested Democrat Rep. Kihuen of NV to resign. I won't miss Kihuen, a hypocritical bastard against MFA / SP who will be primaried, if he remains in Congress, next year by a mother whose daughter died due to lack of medical care (a story for another time).

Another outrage, recently revealed is taxpayers funding without consent sexual abuse charges against Rep. Alcee Hastings.

The Treasury Department paid $220,000 in a previously undisclosed agreement to settle a lawsuit alleging sexual harassment that involved Florida Democrat Alcee L. Hastings, according to documents obtained by Roll Call.

Winsome Packer, a former staff member of a congressional commission that promotes international human rights, said in documents that the congressman touched her, made unwanted sexual advances, and threatened her job. At the time, Hastings was the chairman of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe, where Packer worked.

Hastings has also had ethical problems in the past of financial misdealing, but that charge got, pardon the expression, whitewashed without substantive penalty (he was censured by the House without loss of privilege--to abuse further).

To her great credit, Tulsi Gabbard has introduced legislation to expose secret misconduct settlements, for all misconduct, not just sexual harassment.

Before mentioning Team Red's misdeeds, it is appropriate to flay another Minnesota Democrat, Dan Schoen, for his grossly hypocritical castigation of D. Trump (not that Trump doesn't deserve it)

A Democratic state senator who accused President Donald Trump of sexual harassment is now facing calls to resign after facing multiple sexual harassment allegations of his own.

Several women accused Minnesota state Sen. Dan Schoen of “persistent and unwanted” invitations to meet and allegations that Schoen grabbed them from behind and sent them photographs of male genitalia on social media, the MinnPost reported.

Schoen, a first-term senator who previously served in Minnesota's state house, knew of each alleged incident when the MinnPost approached him for comment, but called the allegations either false or taken out of context.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/23462/democrat-who-accused-trump-harassme...

But leave it to rich Republicans to make the biggest offer for sex, a 5 million dollar proposition to a staffer to conceive his child. I bed some rich Der. could top that offer and not miss the money--after all, it would be consensual, yes?

But wait, there's more: Rep. Linda Sanchez, a CA corpradem pleads for leniency: Congress should not be held to such high standards of ethical behavior.

If you ever needed proof that politicos don't believe rules of behavior don't apply to everybody, this is it.

Back to the pachyderm party: Roy Moore can't remember the claimed instances of sexual assault on young women. Unfortunately for the accusers, serial headline hunter Gloria Allred mucked up the case with a partly forged yearbook entry. Way to go Gloria--go away too. You lie just as much as Hillary. Of course, Donald "Grab Them By the Pussy" Trump is a fine role model who endorsed Moore. After all, buzzards of a feather flock together.

Now with further research, I am sure more of this duopolistic genital fondling etc. will be revealed. But the allegations above will have to suffice for now.

This leads into the second topic.

The Court of Public Opinion

In regards to the allegations of sexual misconduct, recent essays have included comments about letting the courts make the judgements before condemning the accused out of hand. Pardon me while I laugh. Were we living in a purportedly democratic republic, obeying the equal protection under the laws dictum; and were we living with a government that practices "presumed innocent, until proven guilty", then I would give some credence to that admirable request--but, respectfully to those who made those comments, you might as well wait for Santa to slide down your chimney. It ain't gonna happen. Repeat: equal justice under the law is a myth. It doesn't exist. Innocent until proven guilty does not square with the reality of prolonged incarceration due inability to making bond before your court hearing.

If you have money, power, fame, you don't need to show up in court, you send your flack lawyers to court, file motions for change of venue, motions to dismiss, motions for lack of jurisdiction. This series of activities by itself, regardless of associated pro-rich prejudices, leads publicly funded (usually underfunded) prosecutors to give up. After all, prosecutors are judged by their conviction rates, rightly or wrongly. They go after the low-hanging fruit--us.

If you need further confirmation of my thesis, please regard the following illustration of Equal Justice Under The Law:

The mechanisms directly producing this situation are:
1. media consolidation
2. media lying
3. alternative media suppression

To this must be added a general apathy by our citizens who are either working too many hours for too little pay and/or addicted to bread and circuses. The circuses may be terminated or inhibited by the end of Net Neutrality, in which case angry citizens who won't have their favorite guilty pleasures to distract them, might actually be roused from their stupor and get activated about something.

At this point in our decaying society, there are still a few issues that will arouse ire of the majority of the body body politic: gender abuse and directly connected to the issue pedophilia. The MSM is unable to contain these issues. Look at how much visibility is apparent now.

Here is where the Court of Public Opinion (CPO) comes into play. Harken back to 1793 and the Committee for Public Safety in France practiced the kind of Salem Witchcraftery justice. The one concern was whether we send the accused wretches to guillotine directly or do we actually put them on trial?

People: we have little power. More is being usurped by the PTB daily. As of yet, the CPO is one of the few potent weapons we have. I am not advocating beheading but I am advocating exorcism from the body politic. Without citing previous essays of political corruption written by myself, and others as well, it is my contention that the vast majority (but not all) of national elected officials and many local ones are psychopaths. Psychopaths are incapable of reformation. No treatment can provide them with the chief characteristic which they lack: concern for their fellow citizens.

This essay does not delve into more durable solutions to the present corruption other than castigate and then eliminate these perverts using the still-powerful CPO.

Here's what we need to do: Take a long line, Reel them in:

[video:https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=take+a+long+line+angel+city]

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Alligator Ed's picture

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of sexual misconduct revelations and sudden resignations has anything at all to do with a moral awakening. It looks more like what would happen if reams of collected dirt on Congress members were being released in an orchestrated crescendo, with the help of a complicit or compliant MSM.

There are no coincidences when it comes to media blitzes that ignite the high octane fuels of fear or moral indignation. There is sure to be a reason and a purpose behind it, whether we see it or not. The public is being manipulated, again. We need to ask questions and look behind the curtain at who is pulling the levers, and why.

To me it smells to me an awful lot like "Russia, Russia, Russia!!!", but with more desperation.

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Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes

Wink's picture

@ovals49
When the story grew to 3 then 4 then 5 members being accused the bells started going off.
Now, I don't doubt for a minute that there aren't 10% or more of members doing the hanky panky with the interns, maybe taking it a step beyond to harassment, or assault, even. But this recent tsunami smells of Russia! Russia! Russia!

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Deja's picture

@ovals49
Predatory sexual behavior isn't bullshit. Even if half of the accusers are lying hussies just trying to make a quick and humiliation-free buck or those ever important '15 minutes of fame', as some people claim, that would mean half are not bullshit.

When I hear claims that this is a smoke screen, I wonder if the ones saying it have ever been discriminated against, harassed, groped, stalked, or assaulted based on their gender and/or perceived stature. I get it that the media are literal mass manipulators, but this is not perpetuating a lie like RussiaRussiaRussia. This is a long-standing problem, that was finally allowed to be talked about, in public, and some people are actually being shamed for what is shameful behavior - finally.

Unlike the Russian boogieman, this is real, and happens every single day, all around the world.

What do you suppose this epidemic outing of abhorrent, oftentimes criminal behavior is hiding?

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@Deja advances. I don't consider it harassment until it is repeated after I've said to stop. Since the harassment stopped, I didn't need to go formal.

I do think this whole thing is orchestrated. 'Well, the Russia thing isn't working out so well - let's have a few dems take the fall so we can call for Trump's resignation.'

Some of the scenarios presented as harassment are ridiculous.

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dfarrah

Deja's picture

@dfarrah
So, they were all known previously, but were tucked away somewhere until the perfect time; and now, in order to get Trump impeached, they're pulling out old, ignored allegations?

Or do you think the media managed to go find an abundance of actors and actresses? You said "the whole thing is orchestrated".

Some of the scenarios presented as harassment are ridiculous.

Which ones?

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Wink's picture

@Deja
off when the 3rd story broke about a week after the first. And when the 4th story broke a day or two later... well, Russia! Russia! Russia!
That's NOT to say that the stories are untrue. Just that it appears someone is pushing an agenda, and the MSM is happy to go along for the ride. And, just like Russia!, jumped right in with both feet before bothering to corroborate squat.
And... just when we (or at least I) thought that s-e-x and politicians was finally -again- off limits to The Press - a la the days of JFK - as a result of the failed impeachment of Bubba (becuz America would have none of it), well, the recent press coverage seemed to be some Repub's way of reversing that, again returning to when they could play Gotcha! by exposing a politician's pants around his ankles, an intern in his lap.
No, I don't believe it's all coincidence. There's likely an agenda behind this. And a lazy Press willing to carry water. I could be wrong, and ymmv.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Deja's picture

@Wink @Wink
Like I asked dfarrah, did multiple members of multiple media companies keep files full of accusations for sometimes years, and then the puppet master said, "GO!" and everyone started dropping the stories into the public? I also asked if she thought these were all actors - which, by saying you believe the stories to be true, I don't have to ask you that.

The whole orchestration thing baffles me. How do you keep that kind of info tucked away for so long? We're not talking about just one television station in some remote corner of nowhere without internet or phone or newspaper access. How do you keep that many accusers quiet until "go time"?

Edit: corrected c99 member's name

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Wink's picture

@Deja
there was any orchestration. Nor do I believe this passes the smell test.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Centaurea's picture

@Deja

did multiple members of multiple media companies keep files full of accusations for sometimes years, and then the puppet master said, "GO!" and everyone started dropping the stories into the public?

And, most importantly, for this supposed "long game" to work, when they initiated this plan -- what, 10 20, or even 30 years ago? -- they would have had to know 1) that at some time in the future the American public would become receptive to confronting the harassment of women on a societal
level (and 10, 20 or 30 years ago, that was most assuredly not the case), and 2) that this future time of public receptivity would coincide with the exact time when they needed to use the accusations.

Whoever set up this plan must have been prescient, downright psychic. They would have had to start collecting stories about behavior that at the time was not considered by society to be inappropriate. They would have had to locate large numbers of women who had these things happen to them and who would be willing to take the risk of talking about them, but who also would be willing to wait (for years? for decades? forever?) to receive help.

The prescient planners would have had to do all of this knowing that at some future time the American people's view would shift, and would start seeing these behaviors as inappropriate, right at the time when the planners needed to pull out the stories.

I have no doubt that the news media and their masters are using the #metoo phenomenon in their own best interests. That's their modus operandi. They will use anything and everything.

But if TPTB were trying to control this, it surely got away from them. This thing is organic; it's got a life of its own, because it's touching on something important.

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"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

Deja's picture

@Centaurea
I don't expect an answer from the person who made the orchestration claim. She has implied her contempt for abuse survivors, previously. Likes to repeatedly mention that once isn't harassment. Maybe she's just incredibly binary - has to be the exact phrase and/or behavior, 100x? (I'm still recovering from realizing women exist who slut shame, in a place like this. Their behavior [along with a handful of their time warp male counterparts - including their upvoters] has actually caused some members to leave, and at least one gave $100/mo to the site!)

Thank you for breaking down the absurdity of it all.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@Centaurea one of the essay's central points:

But if TPTB were trying to control this, it surely got away from them. This thing is organic; it's got a life of its own, because it's touching on something important.

From my essay:

At this point in our decaying society, there are still a few issues that will arouse ire of the majority of the body body politic: gender abuse and directly connected to the issue pedophilia. The MSM is unable to contain these issues. Look at how much visibility is apparent now.

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Centaurea's picture

@Alligator Ed

I think this is a very good sign for la revolution. The powers that be -- the oligarchy and the Deep State --would like to control everything and orchestrate everything so it gives them what they want. But their control is slipping, and they're losing their ability to orchestrate.

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"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

@Deja
and very real. However that does not mean that it is being exposed only for the obvious ones, that it is unacceptable and it needs to stop.

Consider the possibility of blackmail. The current very real possibility that we may have had a spy ring, or at the very least serious improper handling of Congerssional digital information for several years. There have been thousand of unauthorized logins on Congressional servers including terabytes of data downloaded to parts unknown for unknown purposes as well as stolen and misappropriated government issue IT equipment. The data not only includes Congressional emails of a private nature but also would include classified documents, subcommittee deliberations and memos and dog knows what else.

If the press is covering one thing wall to wall, there will be little airtime for other developing stories that may be making some VIPs very nervous.

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Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes

Deja's picture

@ovals49
And I know they point at squirrels a lot. They also refuse to cover certain stories (DAPL for instance - my co-worker had never heard of it). The media obviously don't want us to know about all the downloads, data & missing equipment. Too bad their Russia bs fell apart - Rooskies could have taken the fall.

Do you have an essay up on the missing equipment and data? Is this the Awan stuff or something new?

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@Deja
His co-defendant Hina Alvi has apparently made a deal of some sort. There have been attempts to intervene in the case, which has brought additional information forward to the court in the hopes of expanding prosecutorial attention to his role as a Congressional IT employee. The attempted intervention was refused for lack of standing.

Three civil law suits have since been filed by George Webb as his crowd sourced investigation of the Awans has opened into connections to uranium trafficking, possible EB5 visa irregularities, campaign financing sleight of hand and much more. Admittedly a Quixotic effort, if discovery and depositions result, this will become a huge story, one the public will not easily be distracted from. Both Democrats and Republicans are doing their best to ignore the Awan story, but it is beginning to gain some traction in spite of their lack of curiosity about just where all their data has been going.

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Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes

Alligator Ed's picture

@ovals49 Right now you can bet DWS is perspiring more than a cat on the proverbial hot tin roof. A recent citation I read is that the Awans had access to and transferred terabytes of info. That should make a lot of governmental types very anxious.

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@Alligator Ed

Unauthorized access to the Congressional servers is ongoing, it is not yet in the past tense.

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Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes

mimi's picture

and not other body parts. This is my swamp level reaction to your essay, AE. Thanks, you can make things clear.

Hadn't even the Italian Mafia a Court of Public Opinion with regards to abusing pre-puberty children? One of the lies I can't stand in the MSM media reports is that they never distinguish between child abuse, meaning real children before puberty, and child abuse of post-puberty teenage "children". I think it's dishonest to use the word "children" and not revealing the age of the sexually abused victim. They shouldn't get away with this obfuscation, imo.

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@mimi Where in Europe can 13 year olds quit school without being charged with truancy? Or enter into a contract? Or make a medical decision? Get a marriage license? Legally change their name? Choose their own adoptive parents? Carry a lethal weapon? Buy a beer or pack of cigarettes?
Are you even remotely suggesting they have some authority over which adult they can engage in sexual activity is different from an 8 year old? because of puberty?

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Alligator Ed's picture

@on the cusp is not simply age-dependent. This issue is getting play because this is abhorrent to a majority of people. Secondarily, the exposure of primarily Damnocrats certainly speaks volumes about a possible genesis of these seemingly coordinated releases as a Republican plot but the Repugs are certainly not above reproach here either. It will be interesting to see when and if the press goes after the Repugs. But one thing certain, all Democratic virtue-signaling about them cleaning their own house will do nothing to impeach Trump. There are probably enough higher level Repugs who, like Trent Franks, will be on the way out.

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mimi's picture

@on the cusp
nor am I sure you understood what I tried to get at.

In my understanding a pedophile is someone who sexually abuses a minor child that has not reached puberty, ie children under the age of 8 to 10. If a child this age is raped I don't believe that the child would ever have had a chance to 'not consent'. May be my understanding is wrong. For these reasons I believed that even among the worst of the worst, Italian mafia etc, raping a child that has not reached its sexual fertility, was absolutely "never excused". Italian mafia guys I heard had an "honor code" and therefore took "justice" in their own hands, when a pedophile harmed a pre-puberty child. The same seemed to have NOT been the case in sexual molestation or rape cases of teenagers.

In my understanding sexual abuse of a person that that has reached its sexual fertility (which is reached earlier between 10 to 14) is different, as the child that has reached sexual fertility is aware of its own sexuality. I don't know why I think there is a difference in perverseness and pathology. If a teen is raped at that age, it seems to me, there could be a struggle and a fight to show a non-consenting sexual intercourse and it would be seen as violent rape between two non-consenting persons. To be clear, I said, COULD be a struggle, not WOULD be a struggle.

For that reason, if there couldn't be proven a violent rape, it becomes a question, if the sexual abuse was a non-violent inappropriate sexual harassment or molestation, to which the teenager was not prepared to fight against, so it could be interpreted (by assholes) as "consenting" or "asking for it" or not fighting it "because of shell-shock and fear" and of course, as Alligator ED so eloquently said, not fighting it and not coming into the public with it out of shame.

I don't think this has anything to do with the legal status of a minor. A child could be fifty years old and still be a child to its parents, though of it has reached legal age at age 18.

In German there is a word for having reached "Volljährigkeit". My dictionary translates that into "legal age" or "age of consent".

To consent to sexual intercourse, you don't have to have "age of conset", just have to have reached puberty and sexual fertility. A child of six years never has a chance to "consent". It is a victim no matter what.

Probably I am very wrong in my assumptions and to me it has nothing to do with saying that there is a difference to any rape victim with regards to its emotional and psychological devastation. In that sense you could say that the CPO is not a reliable measure, because the public opinion is often the reason why sexual predators get "off the hook".

I think the current coming-out of women of the past sexual harrassment experiences does have an effect in the court of public opinion in so far as that it could lead to curbing future sexual predator's behavior and that I think is good. I would hope and wish it has that effect. At the same token there is a counter balance to that, as soon as the court of public opinion comes to the conclusion that the "coming-out" is in itself used to abuse power.

So it's a double-edged sword.

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@mimi Good Goddamned wrong.
Age, not puberty.
Statutory, BLACK LETTER LAW.
I never thought I would read such a comment here as you just wrote.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

mimi's picture

@on the cusp
the meaning of BLACK LETTER LAW, nor statutory law in your mind. You are wrong. It feels to me you intentionally want to understand me wrong.

Sorry that I triggered your anger and frustration. I certainly didn't mean to cause you emotionally pain. I give up on trying to express myself again. I shouldn't try to comment in English. It apparently doesn't work well. Sorry.

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@mimi of written codes and statutes that, when violated, send your ass to jail, or cause you to lose a civil suit.
Puberty...what? The 7 or 8 year old girl who has menstruation is suddenly different from the 16 year old who has not reached that threshold?
Are you suggesting a boy with hair on his balls is more responsible that the one who doesn't have them?
I can't wait to use your premise in court when representing a man who fucked an 8 year old.
I will mention your theory, and then get sued for malpractice, and then disbarred.
You claim to have live in the US, and claim to have raised a son.
Don't tell us you told him to check for a stained Kotex before he had a roll in the hay.
Just fucking don't.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

mimi's picture

@on the cusp
and for explaining to me what BLack Letter Law means. I had no clue. Do I need to add a snark tag for you?

The rest of your comment is Chinese to me. I tried to write English, but may be it sounded like Russian to you? My original comment had nothing to do with law at all. I happened to remember to have heard about an honor code amongst gangsters when it comes to rape of children, You nailed me on this and put the law in there, not me. I don't see where I have questioned or challenged the laws with my comment.

I find your response over the top and inappropriate. May be we can stop the conversation, as it obviously isn't good for both of our emotional health. Thank You.

Good Night.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@mimi
Living in the US does not automatically confer a US attitude, or understanding of US attitudes. You have to grow up in this uptight Puritanical culture to recognize just how hung-up we are on all manifestations of sex.

There's definitely a "grey area" in which some physically mature early-teens are also mentally and emotionally mature enough to handle sexual relationships - but the majority aren't.

US law does not recognize any "grey area" - it's legal, or it isn't. There's a more or less arbitrary age limit (which varies from state to state) below which sex is a crime (some jurisdictions make exceptions for when both partners are teens below the limit, and some don't), and above the limit it's ok if both parties are consenting. (This can be a very big "if", though.)

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

mimi's picture

@TheOtherMaven
that I don't understand or don't support them. I just wondered aloud of why in some groups (here it was the mafia's attitude as an example) or in others I know about, but didn't mention, the people of the court of public opinion make a difference between a pre-puberty and post-puberty 'children' emotionally and mentally, NOT legally. I guess laws might differ in various regions of the world about it, of which I do not know anything. I spoke about emotional opinions found in groups of people and wondered why that might be. I didn't say that I supported those differences they make, just mentioned that I see and witnessed them and tried to make sense of them to myself out loud. Seemed to have been a big mistake.

That triggered a response in 'on the cusp', which I didn't expect, and I reacted therefore harshly myself in my first response trying to explain myself. That was followed by another comment that I felt was a bit off and a direct personal "put-down, dare-you" like attack.

I guess or wonder now, if I triggered a sort of PTSD-like rage, related to a rape trauma, in on the cusp. If that was the background or the case, I regret that. It really was not worth to me to get into a discussion about it at all.

I would have redacted the comment, but didn't want to do it, as JtC doesn't like it and warned me before to stop redacting comments.

So, there we had the mess and I really like to put that behind me. I have no bad feelings towards on the cusp. I hope the same would be so for on the cusp.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@mimi This subject of gender abuse is much too important to be pigeon-holed into legalities, although ultimately that's where the official determinations will be made. In my mind, as small as it is, forcible intrusion into another's privacy or physical being is abhorrent. Somewhere limits have to be drawn, such as the semi-artificial "age of consent". There is a gray, not black and white demarcation when that consensual age occurs, m but for legal purposes, a line has to be drawn, admittedly somewhat arbitrarily but, by and large, meeting a general consensus. And this general consensus is the CPO.

The only uniformity of life is death. All the other "fine" distinctions are purely arbitrary.

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mimi's picture

@Alligator Ed

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lotlizard's picture

@on the cusp  
legal adulthood automatically comes with puberty. Age 15 is the upper limit, meaning you are an adult at 15 even if, for whatever reason, unmistakable signs of puberty are delayed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_majority#Up_to_age_15

Perhaps the whole ruling elite of Saudi Arabia should “resign” — for the good of all women everywhere, and of civilization in general.

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mimi's picture

@lotlizard
court of public opinion in other cultures, which are even 'worse'. But they exist. I don't want to continue to talk about this issue though. Thanks for your understanding.

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First, in my 61 years I have never witnessed, even through the testimony of courageous feminists, the sort of behavior that's been described. But then, I've been a cab driver, not a politician. It seems that it is a disease of the rich and powerful, probably attracting the afflicted - Are you a rapist? Well run for congress and stay out of jail!. A pedophile who hangs out near a grammar school will never get invited to a vacation on the Lolita Express.
Second, the Court Of Public Opinion is fickle and more dangerous even than our more rigged and biased courts. You think that our legal system is biased against rape victims? It certainly is, but try being a young black man accused of drug possession, or a black accusing a police officer of murder. The rates of conviction? 100% and less than 1%. But just wait - some high profile accuser will herself be exposed fabricating her abuse. (Think about the time Roseanne Barr accused her father of abuse and her sister denied the allegation. Apparently it was a false memory implanted - probably unintentionally - by a therapist. Suddenly the allegations of child abuse disappeared and "false memories" became a blanket response to any allegation.) False memories are real, but so is child abuse. The two are not mutually exclusive, far from it, but the public's willingness to turn on one party and then the other is legendary. About 20% of the public (you can guess which 20%) is dying to have some accusation prove false. Moore will be elected, Trump will not be impeached, and some day soon the "High Profile Rape Witch Hunt" will go down in history with the "Satanic Daycare Witch Hunt" fad of the 1980s, as unfair as that could possibly be.

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On to Biden since 1973

Wink's picture

@doh1304

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

@doh1304 the murder of Jews examples of courts of public opinion?

We shouldn't be carving out exceptions to due process, even if the process fails in some instances.

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dfarrah

@doh1304 is easy.
All you need is a mouth and an outlet.

It requires sustained work and effort to take your case to law.

Now, arousing public opinion can be effectively used to support a case in law or Congress and legislatures, and it looks like that is what Rep. Gabbard et al are doing with their bill. I wonder if the sponsors had to get approval from Pelosi and Ryan?

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Mary Bennett

strollingone's picture

is a very nice axe.

People: we have little power. More is being usurped by the PTB daily. As of yet, the CPO is one of the few potent weapons we have. I am not advocating beheading but I am advocating exorcism from the body politic.

When I first heard of it, tar-and-feathering seemed barbaric. Now it seems somewhat quaint. It is time honored, very American, and probably not specifically illegal. May I suggest tar-and-feathering as a sign of our displeasure?

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@strollingone

When I first heard of it, tar-and-feathering seemed barbaric. Now it seems somewhat quaint. It is time honored, very American, and probably not specifically illegal. May I suggest tar-and-feathering as a sign of our displeasure?

It is "specifically illegal". The act itself, as commonly understood, is assault; and the act as normally completed -- lighting the feathers and thus the tar under them ablaze -- is both arson and felony murder.

So I don't recommend anyone reading this Comment trying this at home!

Smile

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

strollingone's picture

@thanatokephaloides

Only ever saw 'em being ridden around town on a rail. Must be a rough bunch where you are. Guess if it's agin the law we'll just have to let 'em do whatever they're a mind to.

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https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/hr4494/text

At the very top is a list of sponsors. I hope that is not a list of all reps who don't have this kind of skeleton in their closets.

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Mary Bennett

Alligator Ed's picture

@Nastarana I'll bet some of those sponsors have plenty of dirty laundry tucked under their beds.

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an interesting take on all this:

http://www.oftwominds.com/blogdec17/deep-state-wars12-17.html

I agree that T-Rump won't be impeached and is likely to win another term. I also think Moore will be elected in a last stand by Good Old Boys in defense of their Way of Life, i.e., unearned privileges, including gender privilege. Howsomever, the Republican senior senator stated publicly he did not vote for Moore, and something like Senate has right to vet its members, so we shall see. From what I can tell, Jones seems at best a lackluster candidate. It looks like maybe the senior Senator, I forgot his name, has ambitions of becoming a National Figure and finds Moore an embarrassment. I think similar reasons account for the presence of some Republican names among the sponsors of the Accountability Act. I am pretty sure Bratt has ambitions for higher office, and his district is in VA, where the GOP is not currently doing so well.

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Mary Bennett

Alligator Ed's picture

@Nastarana Like the battle axe pictured at the beginning of my essay, this anti-gender abuse axe , which is currently chopping off Democrats, is now beginning to start slicing into Repugnants. Trent Franks is the first. Absolute truth of this rightward counter-swing would be if Moore got ejected by his fellow Senators. It is still too early in the game. I do not think the Trump wing has consolidated enough power to orchestrate a solely "leftward" aimed offensive. There are Deep State factors pulling in many directions. In other words the Deep State is not monolithic, it is merely hidden.

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@Alligator Ed
to go over to TOP to watch the freak out about Moore winning. I am assuming he did win?

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Mary Bennett

@Alligator Ed
DK is consoling itself with the news that the Black precincts are not yet reporting. Like those precincts are going to be allowed to decide an election. Also, "this year we had a heckova candidate." I kid you not. I suppose 48% might be not a bad showing for a Dem in Alabama. Maybe he gets testosterone points for having been a federal prosecutor.

DK pity party starts at about 10:30.

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Mary Bennett

gulfgal98's picture

Maybe I am missing something here, but I have no problems with the CPO as a technique to rid ourselves of politicians who have abused their positions of power for whatever means. In general sexual abuse/harassment is the manifestation of the person with the greater power exercising it over a person who has much less or no power. If the CPO rids our governmental bodies of these abusers, it does not prevent the victims and authorities from using the regular legal system as a means of punishment.

The very type of people who are serial sexual abusers and/or pedophiles are also people who will use their power to take advantage of the system. They are sociopaths and should have no place in a position of power within our government.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Alligator Ed's picture

@dfarrah @gulfgal98 From a different comment:

Second, the Court Of Public Opinion is fickle and more dangerous even than our more rigged and biased courts.

This is true indeed but this is the greatest force for change we the 99% yet retain. I am all for a true level playing field type of justice system--just tell me when it rolls into town again--and for how long.
Were true equality being anywhere near existence, I would prefer a real court with real justice, not a corporatist charade.

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Meteor Man's picture

How the alt right and sloppy reporting smeared the 'Rolling Stone' journalist

I ran across this in the links at Naked Capitalism (scroll to the last story):

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/12/links-121217.html

It appears to be accurate and we'll researched. As far as the copyright issue:

Emails obtained by Paste from Oct. 31 show that when the book’s publisher, Grove Press, received an inquiry from The Guardian about the disclaimer, a representative responded that ”[t]he statement on the copyright page is incorrect. This book combines exaggerated, invented satire and nonfiction reporting and was categorized as nonfiction because there is no category for a book that is both.”

The book was published in the 90's but was pushed mainstream in 2017:

However, the narrative that the book was an accurate portrayal of the lives Taibbi and Ames led in Moscow wouldn’t really take off until October of this year—ahead of the book tour for I Can’t Breathe, Taibbi’s look at the death of Eric Garner and its aftermath. Jessa Crispin of The Guardian included a reference to eXile passages in a piece about liberal misogyny on the Oct. 19. Days later, the news was appearing everywhere, from The Daily Beast to The Daily Caller; Jezebel to Newsweek; Reuters to Newsmax; The Nation to Breitbart, and so on. Even Cernovich got in on the action, writing a Medium post titled, “Matt Taibbi Confesses to Forcing Employees to Perform Sexual Favors."

I was not aware of this detail, but it demonstrates the problem with the court of public opinion:

And yet, as soon as the baseless claims went mainstream, people were quick to try to connect them to an unrelated office conflict from Taibbi’s days at First Look. The speed with which this narrative formed and solidified in the national consciousness should give every reader pause.

Full story here:

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/12/the-destruction-of-matt-t...

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"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

Alligator Ed's picture

@Meteor Man is another. Not many people know of Matt Taibbi but millions know about Franken. Taibbi is an informative writer who writes good material. Those who know of him are the politically active--i.e., won't be taken in by such BS as Russia Russia Russia...or Hillary.

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Meteor Man's picture

@Alligator Ed @Alligator Ed
The article also covered Sam Seder:

Immediately, the firing drew backlash from journalists and pundits, who successfully lobbied MSNBC to rehire Seder.

One interesting point the article raised was how the initial story was pushed by "Gamergate veteran Mike Cernovich", but was quickly adopted by other outlets, including Newsweek, Reuters and The Nation, without any fact checking whatsoever. The herd mentality is a big media problem that undercuts the press on a whole host of issues.

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"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn