Sander's Pivot on Clinton Support?

Could Bernie Sanders be signaling a pivot in his full-throated support for Hillary if she's the nominee? For months he's been saying that if he doesn't prevail in the primaries, he will support Clinton against Trump and URGE HIS SUPPORTERS to as well. That's caused a lot of angst here and been the source for many well-thought out diaries. It has spawned the Bernie or Bust movement and been the subject (and scorn) of many establishment pundits, and used as attack fodder among Clintonistas.

On Meet the Press this Sunday morning, Chuck Todd asked Bernie if he's ready to tell his supporters to vote for Hillary in the fall. Todd quoted Clinton saying she's done her part (cackle, cackle), will Bernie do his? His answer was well-parsed and packed a punch. Essentially he said that it's up to the nominee to bring supporters of the second-finisher into the fold. The way to do that is by telling voters how the nominee will make the country better for the middle class, the elderly, the environment, struggling students. Most pointedly, he stated that he will "not tell his supporters who to vote for; that's the responsibility of the nominee."

http://huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie_sanders_hillary_clinton_supporter...

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There's a stirring in the USA and it has temporarily lined up behind Senator Sanders. We want Bernie as the nominee. If he's cheated out of it, or otherwise is not the nominee, it's of critical importance that the movement for positive change continue.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

Alphalop's picture

They are, for the most part, wrapped up in Clinton's "Cult of Personality" and identity politics and I think at a subconscious level they assume we are all the same.

What they don't realize is that we are not members of "The Cult of Sanders", we are people that are issue and policy driven, that our support for Sanders doesn't come from us "Liking" the guy. (Not that I don't find him affable).

It makes me come off almost as an elitist to say it but I think the difference between Clinton and Sanders supporters is one group really likes the Person and the other group really likes the policies.

I could care less if Bernie is a guy I could relate to on a personal level and share a beer with, my primary concern is that the person I support and vote for supports MY agenda regardless of personal feelings about the candidate.

The Democratic Party is not a "Big Tent Coalition" it's a private, exclusive club.

To paraphrase Groucho Marx. "I wouldn't want to belong to any club that has Clinton as a member." Wink

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

The PARTY campaign to retrain control of the WH

And the BERNIE campaign to create a movement within the electorate to WAKE UP and take part in this democracy!!

Every time I see some party faithful post yet another diary about math I want to respond

WE DONT CARE.

And I DONT care... BECAUSE every single delegate equation I see looks like TWO PLUS TWO EQUALS FIVE.

and every nasty offensive PUMA comment claiming if we don't fall I. Line we will be responsible for President Trump... And I want to scream. WAKE THE F UP. if we nominate Her we risk a trump win!!!!!

It's why I support BERNIE!!!

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Orwell was an optimist

Jesus, JFK, MLK, RFK, FDR and God herself, could come to me personally, all at the same time, and beg and/or threaten me to vote for hillary and I'd tell them all to stick it up their collective asses. So Bernie's right, it's up to the nominee to win my vote. And I don't see hillary winning my vote. Maybe if her and bill would take every dime they have and disperse it among all they people they've harmed, I'd consider it. Or not.
BernieOrBust...

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elenacarlena's picture

I don't want to vote for Hill either. But my sticking point is I don't want Trump to be President. But I'm not making any decisions until after the convention.

So come on, Bern, take the rest of the contests in a landslide and go to the convention with more pledged delegates, so that we don't have a dilemma!!

PS: I would, reluctantly, do what I was told if it was by God Herself.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

Bernie, Jesus, JFK, MLK, RFK, FDR and God herself, could come to me personally, all at the same time, and beg and/or threaten me to vote for hillary and I'd tell them all

..... "Vade retro, Satanas!" ("Get thee behind me, Satan!" see Matt. 16:23)

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

We are issues people. Not party people.

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Shahryar's picture

I'm offended by these Facebook ads that say a "lucky winner" could have dinner with Hillary, as if she's the Queen. The slogan "I'm With Her" is scary cultish. Not "We the People". No, it's "I'm With Her". The energy flows from the individual to the Queen Bee. Ask not what Hillary will do for us, ask what we can do for Hillary.

Oh, and another thing. Many of us have stopped being Democrats. Some of us have remained Democrats only long enough to vote in the 2016 primaries. We certainly don't have any allegiance to a party that doesn't represent us, which is obvious to us and should be obvious to the party leaders. So if we're not Democrats now, why would we vote for Hillary? Would Dem leaders try to shame independents into voting for Hillary? 'Cause that's really what we are now.

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I have yet to find an HRC supporter who actually debates on the policies. Recently, on FB, I got into it with someone who resorted to calling me a Trump operative, who told me Bernie would be ashamed of my abusing her (because I gave her 6 links from both left and right to prove my point), that I'm a fool for believing anything media (unless condoned by her I guess?). They literally ran the entire gamut of everything but actually arguing Hillary's stance on anything. It was really mind boggling to see the echo chamber they live in to be laid out so bare for everyone to see. They are blinded by this idea that it must be her, for no reason that they can really summarize, other than to tell me I'm a damn fool. It's really sad.

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I am trying to avoid discussions with Hillary supporters on FB or anywhere else. I live outside a small town, and it's important to retain friendships. So I just don't engage. Being a small town, we all pretty well know everyone's position, won't change anybody by stating our position. so why lose friends.

Having said that, I am utterly sickened by Hillary and her campaign. 2008 deja vu, but worse.

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and maybe the most important way.
Even though the comparisons are made ad nauseam, and Clinton is still recognizable as the candidate she was in 2008, Sanders is very much not Obama.

In 2008, by the time my state's primary rolled around, I only had the two of them to choose from, and it was the most difficult electoral decision I ever made. I saw them both as having weaknesses as candidates, but almost no difference between them on policy (the public option was the only thing). In the end, the Iraq War vote decided it for me, and I voted for Obama, who proceeded to disappoint even my very modest expectations of him.

This time, though, the policy differences are enormous. Whatever Sanders shortcomings as a candidate, he more closely represents me on policy than any presidential candidate in over 40 years. Backing him has been as natural as breathing for me.

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There is an Internet Petition up to encourage Bernie Sanders to keep this Campaign going on all the way to November.

There are ways that he could do this (team up with Jill Stein and the Green Party).

See: http://movement4bernie.org/

And given the polling that he would attract, it would also be hard for the TV Networks to keep him out of the Debates (although the Parties would try very hard).

I think it is very important that he continue this Campaign all the way through to November, because with the negatives for both Clinton and Trump so historically high -- and both those campaigns on the verge of imploding from past scandals, or shady activities in their past ... it is very possible Sanders could really win it in November with just 30% of the vote.

Keep the campaign going!!
Sign the Petition: http://movement4bernie.org/

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elenacarlena's picture

than 50% of the vote. Read up on the electoral college. If no one has a majority, Congress decides. Specifically the House. Putting a Repub in the WH.

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lunachickie's picture

I kinda like the idea of "keeping it going to November", myself, because where else you gonna go??

And I am sick to death of "No, we can't".

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You can win a State in a 3-way race...in a breakdown like: 33% 31% 30% and 6%->other, and then you have won that State, and get the Electoral college votes.

That's why when Ross Perot was running in 1992, that's what they said back then, and why he had a real possibility of prevailing over the two-party system at the time.

As it is, States are commonly won in a 2-person races with just 49% of the vote and less (with some votes going to the "other" column).

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CaptainPoptart's picture

270 electoral votes are required but one can win with a plurality as was the case with Bill when Ross Perot ran. I believe he won with around 42% of the popular vote. But you are right about the decision shifting to the house if no one obtains 270 electoral votes. It would be interesting to see some polling of a three way state by state race.

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I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance. - e.e.cummings

The answer would still be no. It is time to stand up and tell the Democrats where to put it. Not donating my vote to them anymore.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Damnit Janet's picture

They might make us pay to vote. Hell, you know how many hours it takes just to vote... And how many man hours and money it takes to find out why you weren't allowed to vote.

I hate these bastards. The Democratic Party has lost me for good. Fuck them. I'm focusing on election reform.

We need election reform and we need real journalism.

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

Alphalop's picture

I am honest enough with myself to know that I am quite certain that I would indeed have a price, I just doubt it is a price that the Clinton's could, or would, meet. Smile

(For example, for a Billion I would shout from the rooftops how awesome Clinton was, then I would turn around and use a significant chunk of it to get rid of EVERY one of her supporters in Congress and start a New Progressive Party.)

So yeah, I might have a price, but dammit that price is gonna be high enough that I could more than fix any damage my faux support could ever create.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Damnit Janet's picture

I don't know how others, and I know you were joking, but I don't know people can live so high on the hog while others around them are dying from poverty. Having a price is just as greedy as the takers.

Instead of money, we need the ability to share and help so that we can all provide for one another. Sounds pie in the sky but I think it's worth striving for. Smile

But maybe for a buhjillionzillion?? Biggrin

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

Exactly Right, because Fuck this shit!.

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I can't bring that to mind.

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Sea Turtle

Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

I've ever really heard him say he'd support Clinton was on a TYT interview, where he said his support had conditions of the Dems adopting a number of his positions.

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of his campaign. He was sitting down at a table with some newspaper people from a smallish community and the very last thing they asked him was if he would support her. He answered somewhat gruffly as he was getting up to leave. I'm pretty sure he said "yes".

I will see if I can find it today, and, if you would like, I will post it as a reply to this statement though I kind of hate to put it out there again.

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'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "

" I endorse Hillary Clinton for president" coming from BERNIE

at best he will continue to say he will do everything, he can to stop trump from being elected.... But he will stop short of endorsing Clinton.

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Orwell was an optimist

I think that the diarist is misleading us, without coming up with a quote and I would be surprised if s/he can find one.

Why would someone post something like this, I wonder?

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Sea Turtle

lunachickie's picture

Desperation isn't very pretty, is it?

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He has said that he will do everything he can to make sure Trump is not president.

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Big Al's picture

everything he can to prevent Trump from becoming President and is saying Clinton must convince his supporters to vote for her based on policy positions. There's no other way he can "do all he can" to prevent Trump from being elected except to help Clinton if she's the nominee. He can't run third party because that would split the democratic party vote and insure Clinton would lose, probably insure Trump would win.

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Bernie Sanders has been saying, quoting the polls, calling attention to the tremendous turnout for all his events, the enthusiasm, the individual funders, that HE is the better candidate to beat Trump.

If he is not the nominee, and after the O.I.G. report, and Clinton still lying about what she did, the super delegates still give the nomination to her, I expect Bernie Sanders to be a gentlemen, honest, and say she would be a better nominee than Trump.
End of conversation.

No way Bernie Sanders is going to campaign for Clinton, or the Democratic party, no matter what they put in the useless platform.

If Bernie Sanders is not the nominee of the Democratic Party, I expect him to join the millions of people looking at WHAT'S NEXT for the People's Progressive Party.

If Trump wins, short term loss. Positive aspect - the Clintons don't run for anything every again, and we keep them out of the White House.

So, not the ideal outcome. Still may be more running if weird Bill Kristol gets his way. Hell, even Mary Mattalin is now a Libertarian. Weird, weird times...

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

which is oddly enough, the assumption also of the Clinton camp: the idea that running as a third-party candidate will "split the vote" and ensure a Trump win.

In fact, I'm not sure that the evidence backs that up at all.

First, Clinton seems likely enough to lose to Trump with or without Sanders in the race, precisely because she can't convince Sanders' supporters, or a lot of independents who aren't Sanders' supporters, to rally behind her. And it's her responsibility as a candidate to convince them to do so. So far, she's convincing them in ever-increasing numbers NOT to do so. In fact, her numbers are dropping even among Democrats.

This idea that somehow a Sanders third party run or indie run would "split the vote and insure Clinton would lose" seems to me an unexamined assumption based on some old political ideas and some outright mistakes.

In the first place, there's the notion of "splitting the Democratic party vote." Evidence shows that Sanders has, if anything, greater support outside the party than in, a fact that I glean from his repeatedly doing much better in open primaries than closed ones. Whenever independents can vote, Sanders is much more likely to win. Increasingly, during the primary, Clinton has relied more and more heavily on closed-primary states (though she seems to need voter purges to win even there).

My point is: Sanders is not primarily (heh) relying on the "Democratic Party vote." His greatest strength, his base, is in the 43% of the electorate that have no party affiliation. The only reason he ran as a Democrat is that the two major parties are the gatekeepers to the mainstream press, without which a man who has only 3% name recognition isn't going to get anywhere. It's *that* monopoly, or duopoly if you believe the two parties are separate entities, that's been stifling our national politics for decades: they and the press are in bed together, and anybody who doesn't pay the gatekeeper doesn't get access to the press and remains unknown.

You can't "split" a vote that you don't have, and Hillary Clinton doesn't have that 43% of the electorate. Only 19% of them approve of her, and that number has been plummeting for months (it was never very good to begin with).

All Sanders needs, outside of the indie vote he already has, is to persuade 18% of registered Democrats to support him. That's less than 1 in 5, and I don't think that's likely to be a steep lift. Clinton, on the other hand, has to persuade the independents, who appear to utterly despise her.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

gulfgal98's picture

This is the main reason Sanders was forced to run as a Democrat. Add to that, he would have never been allowed to participate in the few debates that the DNC allowed.

The only reason he ran as a Democrat is that the two major parties are the gatekeepers to the mainstream press, without which a man who has only 3% name recognition isn't going to get anywhere.

I also keep reminding people that Dr. Jill Stein was arrested in 2012 when she tried to enter the debates between Obama and Romney. She was not even allowed to enter the auditorium without being arrested. This is the stranglehold that the two major parties (one party/two faces) have on our electoral process.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

There are so many of us walking with Bernie that the PARTY can't find a way to jettison Bernie without 1/2 the "democrats" walking from the party...

At this point even if she wins she and the 3rd way have already lost... And will be hamstrung for her entire (one term) presidency.

So be prepared to do this whole thing all over again in 4 years only, by then the GOP will have a more credible candidate then Trump.

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Orwell was an optimist

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Alphalop's picture

He can't run third party because that would split the democratic party vote and insure Clinton would lose

With the Libertarian candidate throwing his hat in the ring that will pull a LOT of Trumps independents and some of the moderate republicans splitting them as well.

In a 4 way race, if Bernie could get on all the states ballots in time (unlikely), this could indeed lead to a path for victory in the General.

It completely changes the dynamic if you have 2 "spoilers" entering the race that both have a chance of pulling decent numbers, which I think would be the case in this scenario.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Like the Koch Brothers. I can see Gary Johnson being viewed as an insurance candidate for Hillary, to make sure Trump doesn't beat her. Of course, this stupidly ignores the biggest beneficiary, the Green Party and whatever People's Party we create.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

Raggedy Ann's picture

He wants to be POTUS in a bad way. He'll campaign vigorously. I don't know if he'll take Koch money. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Bill Weld was a very popular Republican Gov. of MA. Money too.
Expect he'll pull some Republican support - he was considered "moderate" as a Republican, as most New England Republicans were then.
He's 70. Still has a lot of good friends in Republican party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Weld
Posting this link so you can read ( laugh) who tried to make him Ambassador to Mexico Smile

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Big Al's picture

I suppose anything can happen now with the circumstances we're in.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

set of ideas about American politics, IMO.

This is not 2000. We are about a million miles away from where we were in 2000.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

gulfgal98's picture

has stated that they will be on the ballot in all fifty states. So if Bernie took up Jill Stein's offer, he could run on a 3rd party ticket.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Alphalop's picture

they were only on the ballot in 22 states as of recently?

Did they manage to jump through all the loopholes in the rest? I remember that two were particularly onerous but cannot recall which off the top of my head.

But if that is the case it makes my decision to switch to green pending the formation of a new party (which I think is still the better long term plan) after the convention even more easy to support.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

lunachickie's picture

50 state ballots, that was NOT the case as of about a month ago...

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Alphalop's picture

has ballot access in 21 states. (I had no idea there were this many small parties. we need to get a lot of the progressive ones under one umbrella.

The table below lists the distinct ballot-qualified political parties in the United States as of April 2016

Total state affiliates for each political party, April 2016
Political party Number of states
America First Party 1
America's Party 1
American Party 1
American Shopping Party 1
Americans Elect Party 1
Conservative Party 1
Constitution Party 13
Democratic Party 51
Ecology Party 1
Grassroots Party 1
Green Party 21
Justice Party 1
Labor Party 1
Legal Marijuana Now Party 1
Libertarian Party 33
Liberty Union Party 1
Moderate Party 1
Mountain Party 1
Natural Law Party 1
Party for Socialism and Liberation 1
Peace and Freedom Party 1
Progressive Party 2
Reform Party 4
Republican Party 51
U.S. Taxpayers Party 1
United Citizens Party 1
Various parties calling themselves
"Independent" or "Independence" parties 15
Women's Equality Party 1
Working Families Party 4

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

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Orwell was an optimist

Democrat, Republican, Progressive, Dixiecrat

I think the world would have been better off if FDR hadn't dumped Wallace for Truman in 1944 and Wallace ran on the Democratic line in 1948.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

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TheOtherMaven's picture

and Truman was not the worst choice FDR could have made. (He also considered taking William O. Douglas off the Supreme Court for the Vice-Presidency.)

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

featheredsprite's picture

It might put Trump in office, or it might not.

Statistically, Bernie has a better chance of stopping Trump if he is the Democratic nominee. But that doesn't mean than running as a 3rd candidate would necessarily be a foregone failure.

In such a case, of course, we'd have to work like hell with Brand New Congress, which maybe we ought to do anyway.

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

featheredsprite's picture

If Bernie were to declare as an independent candidate for president right after the convention, we could get him on the November ballot in 36 states. These include the entire West Coast, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, and New Jersey.

ETA: Link to info

https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_access_for_presidential_candidates

It's a long page, the pertinent information is about halfway down.

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

jiordan's picture

just, as others have said, he will do what he can to prevent Trump from being president. Frankly, I don't know what that means and I've quit trying to figure it out. Maybe a warning that even after the convention they'll have to cater to the progressives for votes? It changes nothing, if you ask me, because she'll lie all the way to the swearing in and then throw the entire country under the bus so the Clinton Foundation can continue filling its coffers.

The Green party isn't viable in my state and unless Bernie files paperwork to be a write-in candidate here, I'm SOL. So if its Clinton v Trump...I'm going to be leaving President blank and focusing on down-ticket races. The rest of the country can figure out which narcissistic asshat is going to sit in the White House, I'm out.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

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Orwell was an optimist

support of clinton. Actually, every time some jerk-off reporter tried to force him to say so, he looked like he had a bad taste in his mouth.
I promise you I am not saying this without having done my homework. Lately, he just says he will do whatever it takes to keep trump out. I'm thinking he was unaware of the extent to which clinton would go to get the nomination. I also think that actual theft, and tampering of the vote, renders any promises he made null and void. It does seem he is eaten up by it, most likely because he is an honest man who detests going back on his word, but I don't doubt that he sees we have to be protected from clinton getting into office. His tenacity is incredible, he himself is extraordinary. He will do the right thing, whatever that needs to be.

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'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

in his first interview.

This is one way in which Bernie speaks up for democracy.

It's not the voters' responsibility to vote for Hillary Clinton; it's her responsibility to convince them to do so.

Also, he knows that she will never support the list of issues he wants her to support--although I'm a bit worried about the platform. Bernie acts like the platform actually means something, and that weirds me out a bit. Obviously, it means about as much as toilet paper, and is used accordingly.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

riverlover's picture

I don't even know how to research that. Was there ever a line drawn that was not later erased?

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

it appears that it was non-binding in 1928, so this isn't new--
but having the Party leadership go against a strongly stated platform plank used to be one of the things politicians might get called on. For instance, the platform includes language about protecting Soc Sec and not cutting it, yet everyone from Steny Hoyer to Barack Obama wants to cut it. Once upon a time, they might have been held accountable for that. But for that to happen, you'd have to have a media that held the powerful accountable.

Once the media is complicit and corrupt, all this stuff has the basic value of toilet paper.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Alphalop's picture

as their primary information source anymore.

The trend has been continuing at an accelerating rate.

And from looking at the average age of viewership of most MSM outlets, it keeps getting higher and higher. I think that this indicates that more and more seniors are adopting technology, particularly social media, despite the historical pattern of older people being "Set in their ways" and just sticking with it.

This could be due to various factors, such as the COLA mentioned above and the lack of critical media coverage on it as well as it rapidly becoming the way family members keep in touch. Grandma doesn't just want a weekly call anymore, she wants to be on my FB feed, so she is learning the intertubes. Smile

The stereotype of Seniors being too old to figure out how to set the clock on their VCR is as dated as, well, The VCR.

The "Tech Savy Senior" isn't just becoming more prevalent because "the dinosaurs are dying off." they are growing in number because internet capable devices are becoming easier and more intuitive to use every day.

Heck, even my mother doesn't call me any more, she texts. She went from Hating them to barely ever actually talking on the phone and she is pushing 70. (And couldn't program the damn VCR either back in the day, lol!)

I think this is gonna help us tremendously because we really all do agree on a majority of the most important issues and the more we realize this without having the media gate keepers placing us at each others throats instead of theirs, the more say we will have in our government.

I dunno, I am just rambling some thoughts here but I think things are going to continue to get better the more we use the internet to organize and communicate (which is why we need to fight hard for Net Neutrality) and no longer have to rely on a very small group of people to tell us what is going on in the world and how to feel about it.

I just hope it happens fast enough to matter.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Alphalop's picture

the future.

For example, if he get's the party to agree to pursue several progressive goals and then they do little or nothing to achieve them it provides further ammunition towards establishing that the Democratic Party is not in support of the very things it claims to hold dear and would better enable us to further build the movement and a viable third party.

People talk about Obama's "11th Dimensional Chess" or whatnot, but I think Bernie is even more forward thinking.

I think he is less concerned about winning the match then he is about changing the very rules that the game is played under.

Bernie has always been a forward thinker, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this calculation has not already entered his mind.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

On the most popular "plank" in the history of the party: Social Security.
The platform says they'll protect it and keep it from being cut, so what's up with the cuts to the Social Security Administration and the repeatedly proposed cuts to Social Security itself, in the form of chained-CPI--which were in Obama's proposed budget, for god's sakes? What's with Steny Hoyer giving speeches in favor of cutting Social Security to the Third Way?

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

riverlover's picture

that there was no COLA increase last year, or a few years ago. We know what things cost (unless we are in custodial care). So I think the natives are restless, just light a match.

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Alphalop's picture

it is but one.

The more things we can get them to commit to the better.

This way, if they follow through, then great, and if they don't, while less great still useful to us as it will provide us with more political ammunition with more "groups" of voters.

Don't get me wrong, I still think the only viable path forward for progressivisim is via a completely new party, but this either slows down the damage before we do so or works towards driving more voters to us as they realize that the Democratic Party has morphed into the Republican Party from pre-falling of the rails days. Smile

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Politicans feet to the fire !!

It is one of the most basic issues BERNIE has based his campaign on... Change happens with US standing up and demanding change.. In numbers so great politicans either do what we send them to do or we vote them out!!

We are seeing just a peek of what's going on in the back rooms with and or about BERNIE. He IS going all the way to Philly and he IS making demands and he WILL be an organizing force to make sure the PARTY does not move back to center right ... Because WE will continue to rally behind BERNIE...

The revolution is NOT about winning one primary.. It's about unrigging the entire rigged system... YAY

IMHO it's about F'in time too

(Smile)

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Orwell was an optimist

I'm sick of their "vote for her or else" meme. They simply will not admit that if she wins the nomination that it's her responsibility to win Sanders supporters over. That's what leadership is supposed to be about, amirite? She's supposed to unite the party. To say that it's supposed to be up to Sanders is an insult to the campaign and the message. It's up to her. Ignore at her own risk.

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riverlover's picture

That is not the new rule set. But we don't have to abide.

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Cassiodorus's picture

You are supposed to be terrified by the prospect of a Trump Presidency, without regard to your current terror at the prospect of a second Clinton Presidency.

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"The future is inside us/ It's not somewhere else." -- Radiohead

and that trump was installed to make her path easier. the history we have of diebold and voter suppression makes it hard to dismiss their rigging concerns.

i debated a clintonista on twitter yesterday, and like krugman and the rest, she decried the 'rigged' critique of many sanders' fans. I explained to her that millions of americans didn't trust the two party system or trust clinton. she tried to tell me how progressive clinton really was and how nothing is 'rigged' about the primaries.

"dont't try to convince me, that's not the point. convince the tens of millions who have no faith in teh system".

that is what i told her. that's what she and the rest don't realize:: having already alienated millions of people with establishment politics, they DO NOT have a platform from which to lecture us on what isn't rigged, on what is acceptable, on what is electable.

the establishment has lost all credibility.

and no amount of internet or pundit spin will change that. it's way too late. that's the point....it's too late.

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did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war

he did here over a year ago (and why Black Agenda Report began calling him a "sheepdog" for the Ds):

"STEPHANOPOULOS: So if you lose in this nomination fight, will you support the Democratic nominee?

SANDERS: Yes. I have in the past.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Not going to run as an independent.

SANDERS: No, absolutely not. I've been very clear about that."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-fallout-baltimore/story?i...

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lunachickie's picture

doesn't stop him from running as a Green.

Hey, I'm just sayin'....

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His answer was well-parsed and packed a punch. Essentially he said that it's up to the nominee to bring supporters of the second-finisher into the fold. The way to do that is by telling voters how the nominee will make the country better for the middle class, the elderly, the environment, struggling students. Most pointedly, he stated that he will "not tell his supporters who to vote for; that's the responsibility of the nominee."

I also saw an interview (Tavis Smiley?) where he said that he (paraphrase) "didn't control" his supporters. And "could not guarantee" anything.
Wow!
A little thunbnail math - there are about 66 million Dem voters (that's what Obama got in 2012) 40mil are independents, and 70% of those are "left leaning' (trust me, that's what makes the umbers from 2012 work) That's 28mil - but most of those won't vote for Hillary, so say she loses 15mil. There are 36mil Dems, but what? 35%? won't vote for Hillary. Some of those will come around, but let's say -12mil. 66 - 15 - 12 = 39 million votes. McCain/Palin got 60 million votes in 2008! That's how bad it could be.

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On to Biden since 1973

and refused to endorse clinton? and had to fight hard just to be allowed to speak at convention?

and today he endorses a clinton. and now rubio endorses trump. man, politics is fucking weird....

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did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war