Pro-Life and the Democrats

There is a debate going on in the Democratic Party and it's likely to be important.

A group of pro-life Democrats met with Democratic National Committee Chair Tom Perez at DNC headquarters in Washington, DC on Tuesday, according to Kristen Day, the executive director of pro-life group Democrats for Life of America. Day said that members of her organization as well as other Democrats who identify as pro-life, including Democratic congressman Daniel Lipinski of Illinois and other current and former elected officials, attended the meeting, which takes place as the party is struggling to win back power in Washington.
Democrats for Life of America delivered a list of requests to Perez that the group wants the DNC to fulfill in order to reach out to, and welcome, more pro-life Democrats into the party, according to Day.

I'm of two minds on this issue.
On one side it's wrong and unrealistic to expect women to give an inch on what happens to their bodies, and I believe that most religious people understand that.
On the other side, I've known and worked with people in the Salvation Army and Catholic Church. Many of them are moral, motivated people who walk-the-walk. They are people who I respect. They are the kind of people you want on your side. You need on your side.

So how this plays out is not something I will bother to predict, or even make a judgement call.

Instead, what I want to talk about is the term: pro-life.

The New Testament presents us with a struggle between two different kinds of power, Crossan argues, the Roman imperial model of power that promises “peace through victory,” victory guaranteed by lethal force, or “Jesus’s peace through justice.”
Jesus was executed by the Romans in order to further their domination of the occupied Jewish community. It was naked power, exercised as only the Romans could, through the extreme torture and eventual death of prisoners through crucifixion. Being pro-execution, whether in ancient Rome or Texas today, is more about power than it is about justice.
I find that much of the “pro-life” position seems to come from a similar view of power; it’s all about control, a top down conception of power. The anti-abortion movement is often more about controlling women’s procreation than it is about protecting life.

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If someone is truly "pro-life" I can respect that.
But if you call yourself "pro-life" and also support killing people, then you are nothing but a hypocrite. You should call yourself "pro-fetus" to be more accurate, which is the equivalent of being "pro-black" or "pro-white".
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You can’t reconcile being pro-life on abortion and pro-death on the death penalty. Almost all the early Christian Fathers were opposed to the death penalty, even though it was of course standard practice across the ancient world. As far as they were concerned, their stance went along with the traditional ancient Jewish and Christian belief in life as a gift from God, which is why (for instance) they refused to follow the ubiquitous pagan practice of ‘exposing’ baby girls (i.e. leaving them out for the wolves or for slave-traders to pick up).

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Notice how 63% of pro-death penalty people will knowingly risk executing innocent people, which weakens their defense of protecting an innocent fetus.
Let's not make the mistake of stopping at the death penalty.
The "pro-life" crowd also prefers the mass murder of war as well.
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Even as late as 2008, the Christian Right continued to support war.

Most evangelical leaders still support the war in Iraq and want the United States to "stay until the job is done," according to a survey released Monday.
Even those who say the invasion of Iraq was a mistake based on faulty intelligence believe that it would be wrong to now leave, according to the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE)'s February 2008 Evangelical Leaders Survey.
"We should not have gone in," said one respondent, who was only identified as a denominational CEO by the NAE. "But we are going to need to stay in long enough to prevent chaos and to stabilize the country."
Other evangelical leaders insisted the war is just, President Bush was right in his decisions, and the United States should stay the course.
"Iraq represents that existential threat we have from global Islamic Jihadists," responded another unidentified leader. "We must defeat it in Iraq, Afghanistan and then act preemptively to destroy it wherever it emerges."

So should the Dems welcome in the pro-life community?
I say, yes.
But they should also tell the "pro-life" hypocrites to keep walking.

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They can be pro-alien and anti-apple pie for all I care. I just want them to keep their religion out of my life. Nobody passed any laws against heterosexuals getting married just because they believed gay people could marry. The religious right has abused their power to a point that they deserve no consideration. In fact, churches should be taxed, and religion should never be a reason for an exception to anything.

I can't wait for these loons to push the envelope far enough that the Church of Satan and other religious groups can give them everything they asked for. If I owned a business, first thing I'd do is refuse to serve Evangelical Protestants.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

CS in AZ's picture

@dkmich

Yes, absolutely. And this goes beyond what democrats should allow into their party, which I don't care about, and it goes beyond the obvious hypocrisy that so-called pro life people don't actually care about protecting life, even babies.

The issue of getting religion out of politics, out of our government, is essential to the larger issue of single payer healthcare. The Hyde amendment has to go away. Tax money will be spent on reproductive health services, including access to a full array of birth control options including tubal ligation and vasectomies, and abortions. Without that, it's not universal healthcare.

As long as religious beliefs are allowed to determine the law in this supposedly secular country, this wall is almost impossible to scale or break through. People can believe what they want, but they aren't supposed to base laws on religion. We have to get there. So no, I don't think people who want laws to reflect their religion should be accommodated. At all.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@dkmich

I can't wait for these loons to push the envelope far enough that the Church of Satan and other religious groups can give them everything they asked for. If I owned a business, first thing I'd do is refuse to serve Evangelical Protestants.

You might want to check out The Satanic Temple. Their principal religious practice is to "push that envelope". From the linked site:


About Us

The mission of The Satanic Temple is to encourage benevolence and empathy among all people, reject tyrannical authority, advocate practical common sense and justice, and be directed by the human conscience to undertake noble pursuits guided by the individual will. Politically aware, Civic-minded Satanists and allies in The Satanic Temple have publicly opposed The Westboro Baptist Church, advocated on behalf of children in public school to abolish corporal punishment, applied for equal representation where religious monuments are placed on public property, provided religious exemption and legal protection against laws that unscientifically restrict women's reproductive autonomy, exposed fraudulent harmful pseudo-scientific practitioners and claims in mental health care, and applied to hold clubs along side other religious after school clubs in schools besieged by proselytizing organizations.

source

As for unilateral taxation of churches, I'm not an enthusiastic supporter; but for the principal reason that I'm leery of any incursion on the Wall of Church-State Separation no matter whence or how it might come. Of course, I do support taxation of profit businesses held by churches, and I do support taxing entities which claim to be churches but are really for-profit businesses (like $cientology or Focus on the Family). I realize that's a complicated can of worms, but religious freedom is critical, always has been, and always will be.

Smile

n.b.: Focus on the Family doesn't claim to be a church, but it still claims the tax exemptions of one. Bad

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

gulfgal98's picture

@dkmich Religion has absolutely no place in government, legislation or otherwise. We are a secular nation and it constantly concerns me how the religious right keeps pushing their agenda into our laws.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

@gulfgal98 @gulfgal98 Hillary was very open to term limits on abortion, and it was based upon her stated religious belief. There is nothing new here. She was the titular head of the Party, and it seems she still is. The Party needs voters, donors, and Planned Parenthood has been so defanged, it just isn't as important as it once was.
I despise laws of the land that are passed to give religion the upper hand over science, reason, and the contravention of separation of Church and State.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

EdMass's picture

There is no compromise.

You either believe human life starts at conception, or you don't.

This is an observation.

I will not say which side of the fence I am on.

But there is a fence.

It shall not be easily or ever resolved.

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Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!

Firesign Theater

Stop the War!

@EdMass
over the issue of abortion. In the first place, it is not a yes/no, pro/anti kind of question. It is rather, an ill-defined controversy that is fraught with moral and religious complexity, for which there can not possibly be any single, universally-acceptable solution. The issue is highly divisive, and is prone to being used as a political football that benefits no one.

IMO people would do well to chill out a bit, and start practicing the arts of compassion, tolerance, and mutual respect, rather than trying to distinguish absolute Right from absolute Wrong.

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native

Big Al's picture

isn't as hypocritical as any pro-life warmongering Christian? Seems to me the pro life hypocrites would fit in just fine. Democrats and the democratic party are currently the leading warmonger organization on the planet while pretending to be benevolent humanitarian interventionists and protectors of demockery. That's as hypocritical as it gets. What's the opposite of pro-life? Those that are for abortion rights, i.e., democrats, are just as likely to be pro-war, pro-torture, pro-imperialism, and just as anti-women's rights as the anti-abortionists, and just as hypocritical. In fact, maybe they deserve each other.

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EdMass's picture

@Big Al

It's this:

Democrats and the democratic party are currently the leading warmonger organization on the planet while pretending to be benevolent humanitarian interventionists and protectors of demockery.

IMHO, befuddled Christians are no match for the PARTY...

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Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!

Firesign Theater

Stop the War!

CB's picture

"But we are going to need to stay in long enough to prevent chaos and to stabilize the country."

BTW, the real existential threat to the world is American foreign policy.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@CB

BTW, the real existential threat to the world is American foreign policy.

The real existential threat to America and all her People is American foreign policy as well! Our rulers intervene in the decor choices of other nations while our own national home is burning to the ground!

Diablo

EDIT: This is why I continued supporting Bernie Sanders in the face of Clintonites who castigated him for lacking foreign policy experience. My response: "It's about time we had an Administration driven by domestic policy for a change!"

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

earthling1's picture

on the moon or Mars is what is needed.
Let these religious fools fight it out till they reach scorched Earth.
They can't all be the "real" religion.
But I suspect they would all start getting along if they knew non religious people were waiting in the wings to return and repopulate. This time in humankinds image.
There is no one they hate more than non believers.

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

snoopydawg's picture

the Catholic Church is located in Rome?

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

EdMass's picture

@snoopydawg

You got problems with Romans? Present day Italians? City States? The Pope?

Next you'll be besmirching Constantinople. Oh wait...that doesn't exist anymore.

Anyway.

Stop being so smug and cut it out.

Are we clear?

Wink

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Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!

Firesign Theater

Stop the War!

thanatokephaloides's picture

@EdMass

You got problems with Romans? Present day Italians? City States? The Pope?

Next you'll be besmirching Constantinople. Oh wait...that doesn't exist anymore.

[video:https://youtu.be/Wcze7EGorOk]

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

EdMass's picture

@thanatokephaloides You are a dangerous person...

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Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!

Firesign Theater

Stop the War!

edg's picture

Even though saying so has gotten me threatened and tr-ed on another, orangish site I used to visit.

I'm pro-life in the sense of being against abortion, war and the death penalty. I'm pro-life in the sense of being for free prenatal and medical care for children. I'm pro-life in the sense of being anti-gun and anti-violence. And I'm pro-life in the sense of being for government regulation of the workplace, the environment and motor vehicles.

I'd never take away anyone's right to have an abortion but I'd love to see them become obsolete. I'm strongly for low-cost or free and universally accessible birth control, for universal sex education, and for consensual alternatives to abortion.

There's no reason to keep pro-life individuals out of the Democratic Party. We need to reopen the big tent and welcome those who agree with us on most issues. Seeking 100% agreement on all issues is a fool's game and has cost us far too much already.

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@edg

Anyone can believe whatever suits them as long as they practice their religious faith and not me.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

edg's picture

@dkmich

But some of my foundation is based on the Catholic beliefs I was raised with.

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Wait, I really don't care who they let in since I'm done with the dem's anyway. As far as being pro-this or anti-that its much easier to say than do, unfortunately most things just are not that simple but in this country it seems everything has to be black or white (and I'm not talking about race although that might apply as well) when really most of it is grey.

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@pro left

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native

orlbucfan's picture

Jesus Jerks as they were called in my long-ago younger years. It didn't matter that he groped kids and proudly admitted as such, they voted for him anyway. The Christian and Moslem Religions are both guilty of patriarchy. One good reason why the world is filled with wars, pollution, and overpopulation. I just want them to stay out of my life, period! Rec'd!!

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Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.

definition, it's actually pro-life across the spectrum and I can dig that. It's at least Consistent.
But if you haven't struggled to Save a baby and lost, don't lecture me about abortion.
If you haven't watched an intra-uterine injection, not just once but time and time again- don't lecture me on abortion.
If your wife has Not been in the hospital for Two Weeks getting said treatment to bring the baby to term Enough to (maybe) survive- don't lecture me on abortion.
If your wife has Not had an abruption(look it up) and, quite literally, almost died- don't lecture me on abortion.
My daughter lived three days in an intensive care incubator while the docs struggled to save her, and lost.
Two years later, different city, hell, different Country and the same scenario plays out Again! This time with a boy, and no, there were no treatments. I convinced(?) my wife to abort because I almost lost her once and was unwilling to chance THAT again.
And yes, this was military(Full Health Care!) unless it's termination.
It's an Extremely PERSONAL decision that No One should have to make. But they do. For reasons that are Nobody else's business.
Don't like abortion? Don't Have One Then!
Just
Don't lecture me on abortion.

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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .

If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march