Premature Exhilaration?

Premature Exhilaration?!?

Is it possible?
Can it be?

The Democrats are transforming into a Fighting Force?!?

If you’re just waking up and tuning in:

Here is the Timeline as I understand it.
The info spread that Mitch McConnell was going to vote to acquit. Trial over.

Next, The Senate came to order at 10:00 and completed their final remarks by 12:00. The next step was supposed to be a vote—to Convict or Acquit.

Instead, Jamie Raskin asked for the Senate to allow witnesses.
The Gop objected.
A vote was taken.

And, just like that—-the Trial goes on.

I don’t think this will change the Outcome. But the fact that the Democrats are willing, eager to extend this trial, even as their President Joe Biden, wants it to end, is astonishing.

They got 5 GOP members, including Lindsay Graham! agree with the Dems to vote. The Vote was 55 for witnesses and 45 against.

Is this evidence of spinal structure, or stupidity?

Only time will tell.

(This is a reprint from TPW that I thought might be of interest and debate here.)

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snoopydawg's picture

phone call according to DanK @ DK.

Worth a read for the story and if this was a criminal trial I would call it the smoking gun. Maybe. Still depends on intent which Comey doubled backward on for HerHeinous when she was very naughty for using her private email server, not turning in all of her work product as required and then erasing 30,000 emails that were under subpoena, but any who... you know the rest. And as I said in the other essay on impeachment, Pelosi said that she knew that Bush was lying about the Iraq intel on Saddam/WMDs, but refused to impeach him for it or any of the crimes against humanity that came from Iraq war 2. Millions have been killed, numerous countries have been destroyed and slavery, torture and genocide are happening right gd NOW, but Trump was thee most dangerous president in modern history according to Bernie. And as far as I know Biden has not put a hold on any of Trump's action that allowed the military and CIA to get away with more war crimes. The Yemen war is still happening, kids are still starving to death which we said would NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN when it happened Again. And the arms deal with the Saudis has not been cancelled. Oh well, MBS released a woman who he had in prison for wanting to drive. All's good. And even after being impeached, Bernie says Trump will still not face reality and admit he lost. Yeah Bernie, call him a coward. Then look in the mirror at least twice. And then again every time that deal you made with dems comes up. You are not nor have you actually been who I thought you had. More info? PM me.

Who's a good mom? Sam got the last of the cream this morning while I had the powdered crap. A few more inches till she can drink out of the porcelain throne and she can jump up into MY chairs. A few puppy milestones. Guess I don't have to mention how BIG she is at 4 months. Hey maybe I'll be one of the lucky few and have a skinny lab.

Lol...my neighbor's dawg took off just now so she backed her car to the end of the drive, he came back, got in it and she .... did what? Did she just pull back into the drive and go in the house or did she back out and take the dawg for a short ride first?

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snoopydawg's picture

Graham had previously warned against calling witnesses, saying the defense would call plenty of their own and it would be embarrassing.

Graham focused on the idea that Trump’s defense would then call witnesses that could reinforce that certain elements of the Capitol siege planned and coordinated the attack beforehand.

“There’s mounting evidence that the people came to Washington preplanned the attack before the president ever spoke,” Graham said. He added: “If you open up that can of worms, we’ll want the FBI to come in and tell us about how people preplanned this attack and what happened with the security footprint of the Capitol. You open up Pandora’s box if you call one witness.”

This is already a given I thought. Pretty much everyone knew that Trump supporters were coming to Wash. to a rally and that there was the possibility of violence. Could they have known that people would try to break into the capital and actually stop congress from doing their job? I don't think many thought of that. It's sorta outside the box of any previous protest last year I think. But even if they hadn't they should have been so prepared with extra security that they could have had people either in place or moving there ASAP as soon as Trump told them to march to it. This is where they were unprepared and no new laws are not needed. They don't know that the ones in place did not work because they did not use them as written. This is on them And remember that it is Pelosi's job to make sure the capital is secure. Sorry no links, but from trusted authors if that counts.

Again democrats could have waited to try Trump in the senate so ALL the info can be shown. And if this is as bad as it sounds then Trump must be criminally charged as an instigator or accomplice.

Read this article from capital police. Eye opening. If true...

I don't trust anyone above me

It has been snowing hard for 2 hours and it is starting to stick to the road. Yay. We really need a few good storms which are lined up.

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@snoopydawg

you linked to is worth a read - credibility somewhat undermined by the repeated assertion
that Officer Sicknick was beaten to death - now known to not to have been the case - but officers' personal accounts of their experiences generally ring credible.

Part about the Capitol Police leadership having been warned of potential violent threats beforehand - which it failed to act on - is mentioned, though kind of in passing, almost at the end of the article.

You'd think that getting answers to questions like 'what did they know?' and 'when did they know it?' would be kind of important, but is anyone really pursuing that?

Not getting the impression that delving into that is a priority of the Dem leadership.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Blue Republic

And yeah I saw that they were still saying that SickNick was hit in the head, but the new story hasn’t been out that long and not every person has heard that the original story was wrong. I’ll give some a pass on it but it depends on who it is.

But it was nice to get the other perspective.

You'd think that getting answers to questions like 'what did they know?' and 'when did they know it?' would be kind of important, but is anyone really pursuing that?

Huge bubble of silence on what happened that day isn’t there? Democrats should have waited longer to impeach him or at least collected as much evidence of the event as possible and gone from there. Since they fudged it again and so badly they never wanted Trump convicted. Too much $$$ involved next few elections for Pelosi to pass up.

"Beware of Trump and Q." is the democrats motto from now on.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Blue Republic

Looks like this article is where the story got started that he got the head injury and died from it.

As Glenn points out Biden is still saying that even though it has been almost a week since the truth came out. Just think of that poor guy’s family having to go through this at this time. I wonder if they reached out to someone that could get the truth out? If so and they didn’t do anything....? But how sad for them. I wonder how many in congress know the truth? Pelosi? Remember democrats talked about his sacrifice this week during impeachment. Again I’m wondering about the family.

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snoopydawg's picture

Democrats just secured a major victory, winning a vote to hear witness testimony, and now they're talking about forfeiting that significant win and settling for a single meaningless written statement?

Mmm mmm, classic Democrats.
— Kevin M. Kruse (@KevinMKruse) February 13, 2021

Here is the story and it is a doozy

DK link

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snoopydawg's picture

So sad the Democrats will likely blow this again. They need to put the battered police witnesses on screen, and date Republicans to vote against the Blue.

So many things they could have done that would have put republicans in a very bad spot if they continue to support Trump. And getting rid of Trumpism is supposed to be WHY dems Say they are impeaching him. Instead their actions from the get go have shown me that their goal is to piss off Trump people and keep the 'civil' war going instead of us joining it as a class war. Seems so clear.

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snoopydawg's picture

So sad the Democrats will likely blow this again. They need to put the battered police witnesses on screen, and date Republicans to vote against the Blue.

What did Pelosi know about capital insecurity and when did she know and what did she do about it? So far I am not seeing much info from behind the scenes or any calls for investigations and public hearings. Wasn't the 1st one with capital police captain behind closed doors? IF so why?

As usual tho there are lots of "Don't be mean to democrats!" roadblocks going up.

I see the hate the Dems crowd have shown up.

And don't worry democrats got this.
They're saving it for the criminal trial.

Sure. Trump will be charged the week after congress works a full week after their next vacation. Psst. They only work 3 days a week. 158 days a year. Niiice.

Bottom line is this:

And those actions would have accomplished exactly what?

So they bitched when the GOP refused to have witnesses the 1st time, but are giving democrats cover for not doing it this time? Seriously if you think dems are really trying to hold Trump accountable thru impeachment then how can you defend them not doing everything to get it done? That should be flipping switches in minds, but they're doubling down. Lollll

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Dems CAVED.

When will I ever learn?

Not bloody likely. Too old, will keep hope alive until the very end.

Rather be happy than right.

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NYCVG

snoopydawg's picture

who pulled the plug on democrats having witnesses after they got an agreement to call one? I know...

'A Complete Capitulation': Outrage as Democrats Abruptly Back Off Push for Witnesses in Trump Trial

"Even if you're convinced no testimony will change the minds of 40 Republicans—and I think that's a fair assumption—leaving witnesses on the table is an incredible mistake," tweeted HuffPost's Matt Fuller. "After impeachment managers presented a fantastic case, the decision to fold is what will be remembered."

In the statement that was entered into the record, Herrera Beutler—one of the 10 House Republicans who voted to impeach Trump last month—said that "when McCarthy finally reached the president on January 6 and asked him to publicly and forcefully call off the riot, the president initially repeated the falsehood that it was antifa that had breached the Capitol."

McCarthy refuted that and told the president that these were Trump supporters," Herrera Beutler said. "That's when, according to McCarthy, the president said, 'Well, Kevin, I guess these people are more upset about the election than you are.'"

Judd Legum of Popular Information argued that because Herrera Beutler's statement had already been released to the public, the agreement to enter it into evidence is "objectively the same as a complete capitulation on witnesses and the Democrats should just own up to that."

"This is retreat. White flag. Malpractice. Completely unstrategic," added Adam Green, co-founder of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee (PCCC). "They just closed the door on others who may have stepped out, as Herrera Beutler urged last night. Just when we thought Dems were being bold and strategic. This is grabbing lameness out of the jaws of boldness."

So who pulled the plug on nail Trump's hide to the wall? Charles Koch. I bet you anything he had something to do with this, but he wasn't alone in making sure dems made their point, but couldn't prove it. This furthers my thoughts on the civil war being what the goal was. We'll see what happens with Trump now. Does he go away after being let off or will he continue riling up his base? What do the PTB want him to do?

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snoopydawg's picture

ZimInSeattle

Of course they did. Any kind of actual opposition to the Group Of Parasites is outside the purview of the Inauthentic Opposition Party. SOP for the IOP.

Hey Zim you still reading here? Come back. I miss you.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

We never learn.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

snoopydawg's picture

But I thought democrats impeached him so he couldn’t run ever again? lol.

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snoopydawg's picture

Twit is having fun with this. Me too.

How can anyone defend democrats not doing this?

FF3487B5-FA0B-4440-9182-327E59752DAD.jpeg

Democrats really screwed up here. They should have dragged this out because people were still focusing on Trump and republicans and not that the checks still haven’t gone out nor many of the horrible people Biden’s appointing and doing.

Kids are still in cages.
Millions of children in Yemen are starving to death.
Saudi Arabia are still getting billions in lethal weapons to use on Yemen.

What else were they hoping to keep us distracted from?
Hey Biden’s promising that he’s going to close Gitmo by the end of his term. How many times did Obama say that?

Twit is warning that Biden is coming for social security really soon. This is after he took price controls off epipen. Still okaying drilling permits even though!

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Raggedy Ann's picture

What a farce - I'm laughing hysterically cuz I knew the dimwits would bungle it. Get too close to their power and POW! the shit is over. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

snoopydawg's picture

@Raggedy Ann

I’m mean how can you go from insisting and then fighting for something only to say never mind when you got it? Will the dem sycophants finally wake up and see how the Washington Generals just threw the game for the Harlem Globbetrotters? If not then I have no idea what would. Some are tho.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@snoopydawg

We are looking at brain damage.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
earthling1's picture

to stay out of aircraft and away from large bodies of water.

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

lotlizard's picture

@earthling1  
“Chappaquiddick.”

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@earthling1

Trump's gonna need to stay out of aircraft and away from large bodies of water

Alexander Lebed

Paul Wellstone...

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From June 17, 2020, the 48th Anniversary of the Watergate Break-In:

Democratic Party Now -- Stupid or Crooked?

Of course one possible answer to the title of this essay is, "both." Nevertheless I submit that this question is extremely important. A recent superb essay on this board focused on how to talk with lesser-evil voting folks, and cited the infamous Chuck Shumer line about picking up suburban moderate Republicans while losing traditional lunch pail Democrats. Obviously, Shumer and company do not care to accomplish anything that would benefit those traditional supporters of their party -- so why should they try to win their votes? Thus they are just Republicans now. I certainly agree.

However, I think the Democratic leadership is even more corrupt than that. These people are not stupid at all. They live the lives they have chosen to lead which is to be professional fundraisers. It is not the interest of "moderate" republican voters that they care about. It is the interest of the people who donate money to their campaigns that they care about.

Chuck's glib comment was a toss off -- to explain his own prostitution as though it were an electoral strategy. It is indeed an electoral strategy for the donors -- to own both parties to make sure that they get the government they buy.

This is not a subtle distinction. In support of my interpretation I point to the collapse of the number of Democrats in office over the last decade. The leaders of this party are content to dominate the big cities while blowing off the rest of the country. This keeps enough Democratic politicians in office for it to be a "national" party -- but guarantees that it will never be in power.

The Republican Party concentrates on those exurban and rural voters. The Constitution gives more political power to lower population states in the Electoral College and the Senate. So the Democrats have settled into a stalemate with the Republicans, that locks the status quo in place.

Instead of contending over policy, the two parties put all their public advocacy into accusing the other side of illegitimacy, criminality and treason. Investigations galore! This unprecedented duel of cheap propaganda totally devoid of practical consequence has the effect of discrediting government itself. That of course has been the primary political project of neoliberalism since the days of Thatcher and Reagan.

Hard to give any credit to government today, isn't it?

Simultaneously, the main news outlets of the 21st Century sensationalize the accusations flying back and forth, with Fox News and Talk Radio revving up the Red Shirts and the Legacy Media serving up the bile to the Blue Shirts. There is no significant difference between Rachel Maddow and Sean Hannity. They are both entertainers with a particular schtick.

When I see a wide variety of advocacy on the internet that includes the thought that the Dems are too stupid to understand why they keep losing, I just shake my head in wonder.

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I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

@fire with fire Diet Republicans to the end. The end being 2022, when Republicans take the House and Senate and impeach Biden and Harris.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@TJ

which is a fairly lousy bet.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.