Pope talks transgender

Pope Francis was flying back to Rome from a papal visit to Georgia and Azerbajan when a reporter asked "given his firm denunciation of gender theory, how he could minister to Catholics who suffered from gender dysphoria."

Francis said he had ministered to such Catholics as a priest, bishop and now pope.

I’ve never abandoned them. When someone who has this condition comes before Jesus, Jesus would surely never say ‘go away because you’re gay.’

--Francis, displaying some lack of ability to distinguish between gender identity and sexual orientation

Francis recounted the story of a Spanish transgender man who wrote him a letter recounting his transition from a woman to a man who later married a woman.

And I received them. And they were happy.

--Francis

Francis praised the bishop who accompanied the man throughout his transition. But he criticized the man’s parish priest, who he said would yell “You’ll go to hell” when he saw him on the sidewalk.

Francis recounted that the man found a retired parish priest who had a different attitude: “He said, ‘How long has it been since you’ve gone to confession? Come on. Let’s confess so you can receive Communion.’

Understood? Life is life. Sin is sin.

--Francis

The pontiff acknowledged that the question of transgender Catholics poses a problem. It’s a problem of morality. It’s a human problem. And it must be resolved as it can be. But always with the mercy of God, within the truth.

While attention must be paid, he said, "in each case welcome, accompany, discern and integrate them” into the life of the church. “This is what Jesus would do today.”

He concluded by begging reporters flying with him on the papal plane: “Please don’t write ‘The pope blesses trans.’ Please.

What Francis seems totally opposed to is any attempt by transgender people to determine or explain the source of our human condition.

Share
up
0 users have voted.

Comments

enhydra lutris's picture

up
0 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

thanatokephaloides's picture

No modern Pope has any remaining tenable position on any LGBTQ people or their lives.

Two values that the Church advertises as first-priority -- universal lovingkindness and compassion on the one hand, the extremely obsolete Biblical understanding of human sexuality on the other -- leave any such Pope with a completely insoluble dilemma. Either one shows the compassion advertised, which flatly requires dumping the obsolete Biblical understanding of human sexuality and thousands of years of rulemaking with it; or one defends the old traditions, which are completely incompatible with any sort of compassion for LGBTQ folks.

Add to the Papal troubles the handcuffs imposed by the Conciliar Decree Pastor Aeternus (papal infallibility), and you've got a recipe for the very kinds of disasters we're now seeing. (And of which you just provided an excellent example.) Now that no Pope can even correct the mistakes of any prior one, this is the result.

Note: For anyone reading this who is inclined to complain that the claim of infallibility is narrow and restricted to a small set of conditions, I would ask any such reader to give an example of any Pope since Pius IX who contradicted a predecessor on anything because said predecessor made a mistake.

Anyway, were I a Cardinal facing election, I would avoid it in any way possible. (Voting for oneself in the election is the most reliable way to do this.) The modern Papacy is all burden and essentially no power. I've already had my fill of that class of responsibility, thank you!

up
0 users have voted.

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Your gender is fixed at birth. Sometimes your body doesn't match it and you need an operation. But it's not optional; not something you change on a whim. And the Pope chastised the priest that yelled "You're going to Hell" at the transgendered person.

up
0 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

thanatokephaloides's picture

I don't see that at all. I think the Pope is right.

The Pope is as correct as he can be, in view of the facts I pointed out above. To be completely correct, he'd have to take the fact-based stance that the Biblical view of sexuality is obsolete. He cannot do that and get away with it, despite the overwhelming likelihood that it's exactly "what Jesus would do". Any Pope attempting any such thing would shatter the Church like a fragile glass vase hitting the concrete, providing that he lived long enough to see it.

Pastor Aeturnus is one of two Papal Decrees which bode very ill indeed for the survival of Christianity in general and Catholic Christianity particularly. The other one is Paul VI's Humanae Vitae (no birth control or abortion). Neither one is supported by anything Jesus is known to have said, and Humanae Vitae is only supportable at all by running some of the worst of Paul of Tarsus through an extreme extrusion process.

No Pope can say this, but I do: These Decrees were mistakes. And unless the Catholic Church finds some way of breaking out of these handcuffs, it's very likely not to be around come 2100 CE or so. Trans, lesbian, gay, and bi people -- genderqueers -- are human beings with the rights of human beings. In today's spiritual environment (an open marketplace of ideas), any religion not willing to publically embrace this fact risks its long-term existence.

up
0 users have voted.

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Not familiar with "Pastor Aeturnus" as I'm not Catholic. Is that the doctrine of infallibility?

I must say as an atheist and former Protestant that this Pope is the only pope that I admire.

up
0 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

thanatokephaloides's picture

I agree 100% with your excellent post.

Thank you! Smile

Not familiar with "Pastor Aeturnus" as I'm not Catholic. Is that the doctrine of infallibility?

That's right. Promulgated by Pope Pius IX and the First Vatican Council on July 18, 1870. I grew up Catholic but am now Pagan, and I'm a history buff into the bargain.

I must say as an atheist and former Protestant that this Pope is the only pope that I admire.

Indeed, this Pope is a genuinely admirable man. I just wish I knew just how much of the "don't say that Pope Francis blesses trans" stuff is what he really believes in, and how much of it is "I don't want to start World War III in the Church". I strongly suspect the latter predominates. Pope Francis doesn't want Catholicism to turn, on his watch, into what much of Islam is today: a once united community shattered into mutually-destroying splinters.

One such splinter created as a result of Pastor Aeturnus is the Old Catholic Church in its various modern incarnations. You might want to check it out. It's folks who continue to believe in what was basic Catholicism before Pius IX became Pope.

And thank you again for your compliment! Smile

up
0 users have voted.

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Wasn't that doctrine what caused Lord Acton to say "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"?
A good quote to remember in this election, Hillary, Kos et al.

up
0 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

thanatokephaloides's picture

Wasn't that doctrine what caused Lord Acton to say "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"?

Yeppers, that's the one! Smile

up
0 users have voted.

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

elenacarlena's picture

I think tk is right, the Pope can't quite bring himself to say previous Popes were wrong and tear the Church apart, but he has a conscience so struggles to find a way to accept everyone.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. You don't need the Pope's blessing to know you're a good person any more than I do (as a disobedient woman).

up
0 users have voted.

Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.