Open Thread - Thurs 31 Mar 2022 - A Grower's Tale
A Grower's Tale: Slugs?
Long ago, when I was ohh, maybe 10 or 11, or even less, I went to a week long outdoor Boy and Girl Scouts camp sponsored by my school. It was in the Santa Cruz Mountains in CA. Some older teenagers were our guides and teachers as we explored the mountains. At one point, one of the guides showed us some slugs, a brown slug and a banana slug. He swore they were edible, and licked the slime off one to prove it. He challenged us to do the same, and I, being a dork, accepted the challenge. It was just like, well, like snot, with a more earthy taste. Gag worthy? Naw, but spit worthy, for sure.
Anyway, he told us that the brown slug (or red, or black or whatever, but NOT a banana slug) had been introduced by a European who wanted to grow it for escargot. The slugs escaped and ran (haha) rampant up and down the West Coast. They turned into big agricultural pests. You see, they are different than the native slug, the banana slug, and have no natural predators here. The brown slugs, those damned unwilling immigrants*, eat live plants. Our native slugs eat dead plants. Such a difference!
A banana slug, the good, native, slug. The second-largest slug in the world, apparently. Who knew?
Never thought much about slugs after that until I started growing food here in the Puget Sound area. Back then, in the mid 1990's, there were lots, and lots, and lots of slugs. Lots.
I'd started my first gardening when I lived in England, and I was taught to counter things like cutting worms and such, which are numerous in England, with a nifty little trick. Save your toilet roll tubes, the cardboard bit that goes over the bar on the toilet paper dispenser, and then use them to surround your brassica (broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, etc) and lettuce seedlings when you plant them outside. The cut worms and such can't get around or over or through the cardboard tube and... the plants can grow and thrive. The tube breaks down (organic!) and disappears by the end of the season. Voila! This works great in England.
Therefore, I did the same when I planted out my first broccoli transplants, grown from seed, by me. I had planted about a 4 by 50 ft bed of these little guys, each surrounded by a toilet paper tube. They looked so great! They looked so happy. My mouth drooled... broccoli (I love broccoli). It rained the day after I transplanted them. I thought that was awesome, because then no watering was necessary. A day after that I went out to proudly survey my young seedlings. And...
Every single one of them was dead or dying. EVERY ONE. Inside every other toilet paper tube was a brown/red/black/whatever invasive slug, fat on broccoli seedling, happily sheltered from any predators (if they even have any here) and the sun, lounging. I was devastated. For about half an hour. Then I realized I'd have to fight them darn slugs. And win!
The 'evil' european slug. Brown, Red, Black, whatever... 
And I did win, organically even. It took some learning, a lot of work, keeping an open mind, and a ton of observation. For 10 to 15 years I kept them out of my crops and my gardens. They were still in the pasture, in the woods, but not where I grew things. Then, they disappeared from most everywhere about 5 to 8 years ago without any action by me. I rarely see any of the non-native slugs anymore. I don't even see them much in the forests around here, although a few are still there, and sometimes there's 'blooms' of them if the weather is good for them. I think the reduction in their population is due to climate change, frankly. It makes me sad, even though the slugs are invasive and sometimes despised. I fought the invasive slugs for a long time, but I don't want to see them disappear. I just don't want them to hurt my crops.
So, thanks for reading and here's the open thread - and remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough!
Comments
Happy Thursday, Everyone!
I got a bit overwhelmed by the news last week. So I decided to talk about slugs! If anyone wants to know more about how I got control over the slugs, lemme know. It's weird saying that, and also being sad they seem to be declining in the wild. Ohh well. Have a great day, Caucus99%ers!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Happy to hear you slugged it out
with the invaders and won!
Thanks for the essay.
It was an ongoing fight
with the slugs, that's for sure. Hope you are doing well!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Ducks are one idea...
Regenerative Farm Combines Ducks and Blueberries
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfqPlDzWwjM]
They used the ducks to eat the slugs. I found that and their other reasons for ducks interesting. Hope your broccoli is doing well this year. Ours are looking good.
Happy gardening!
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Ducks are good
for sure. We have free range chickens, and they will eat baby slugs, but nothing bigger than about 1/4 in to 1/2 in long (if that). I don't blame them, those things are hard to swallow. Thing is, the chickens do not range out in the field we used to grow vegetables in, nor the fenced off garden we grow veggies in now. Why? They kick up all the soil!
The broc this year is looking great; well, the first planting of it. It's about ready to be transplanted into the garden. The second planting is waiting in the greenhouse, about 1/2 an inch tall :). Hope yours continues to do well! No cabbage whites!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Ocean Cleanup
Not sure how close this is based to your ranch, but maybe can get a deal on cheap sunglasses?
Victoria Canada is a bit north of you, but in the same neighborhood. This project is harvesting
plastic waste from the *great Pacific garbage patch* so far about 55,875 KG which is around
1/1500th of the estimated total. To be recycled. They hope to scale up.
https://theoceancleanup.com/oceans/
Victoria's just a wee bit
North of us. Drive to Port Angeles, get on the ferry, in Victoria. So about 2 hours travel total, if no ferry wait times. At first I thought this was about the container ship that sank and lost all its containers on the beaches up there. I really appreciate and support the ways people are coming up with to clean up all the ocean plastics. I would prefer we just not use plastic but... not a chance in hell. If it's used, I'd like it all to be recycled. Once again, not a chance in hell.
We have to use plastics for all our growing pots, seedling trays, etc. I wash them and reuse them over and over again. I think we last bought some about 15 years ago. Heh. Our big pots, I bought those almost 30 years ago! They are thick plastic, they last forever, apparently, and clean up easily.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
"how I got control over the slugs" Please do tell
I can't remember seeing one in Cloverdale, but down in Petaluma had to bait traps in the veggie garden. PBR in a pie plate is what I remember,
PBR - Pabst Blue Ribbon - BEER VIDEO
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF3kCGXBGSU width:420]
or if no PBR, then HAMM's did have what slugs liked,
Hamm's Beer Commercial Land of Sky Blue Waters Song
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZC3NUdjtug width:420]
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Cloverdale is full of not too slimy chewing pests, last year acquired a bag of cornmeal to spread around the young shoots, supposed to dry out pillbugs when they eat it. The opposite way to go from drowning in beer. It didn't work well, so the grains sat in the fridge, until yesterday I baked 'em and ate cornbread for breakfast. LOL last year's pesticide is this year's breakfast. Let the good times roll.
Mmmmmm. Polenta with shrooms is a mighty
fine breakfast.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
brocolli up to $3.69 a pound
hey you make cornmeal sound even better, right on. Don't forget the butter, that's what I always say.
Yestidday bought almost two pounds of brocolli, had price shock again. Did finally stop consuming my favorite food, chips, usually tortilla. Now trying to find other ways to fill empty belly. Too much salt made me do it but also wow the chips got crapified fast! Last month 11 ounce bag 4.19, this month 10.1 ounce bag 4.69. Next month, consult magic 8 ball. Tomorrow.
Tortillas...
Can you fry them yourself to make chips? Not everyone can. But... they are tons cheaper (corn tortillas), you can fry them, bake them, heat them in the microwave, etc. And they taste better (to me). Having said that, I still love tortilla chips and do still buy bags of them from time to time. I understand the addiction to them.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Pillbugs!
I have to admit, we haven't had problems with those around here. I think that's because they eat dead vegetation (like banana slugs do) unless there's a huge bloom of them. They like to hide under things in the daylight, because they are crustaceans (I just found out!) and need to be moist. So, maybe move things they might hide under, if that's possible, like plant pots and so on?
I posted a comment about how I got rid of slugs below for everyone to see if they want
https://caucus99percent.com/comment/565491#comment-565491
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Good morning Sima. Yes! Please tell how you beat the slugs.
For he record, turkey vultures will opportunistically eat them if they show up within range and draw the bird's interest, but they don't actively hunt them.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Didn't know that about Turkey Vultures
That's cool. Maybe other big birds will eat slugs? Our chickens won't unless the slugs are really small. No spit means no way to wash those things down! Hope your day was good, mine is going well. It's 50 outside! Heh
Oh, I posted a comment about how I got rid of slugs below for everyone to see if they want. Check it out! https://caucus99percent.com/comment/565491#comment-565491
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Slug slime is a deterrent and very few things, including
birds will eat them. Turkey vultures have incredible systems, their diets would kill most animals but don't faze them.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
First they came for the homeless
Outrage fatigue describes how I feel about this vid already having over a million views in less than one hour. Oof Joe Rogan, because nothing says "I care" like a forced labor prison camp, that is where he goes at the end. More free labor for fighting California wildfires, this time get homeless junkies. Sounds Shillenberger's final solution.
Michael Shellenberger's Solution for the Homeless Problem in California
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsTDA2DT72k width:420]
---
Do not look at the BigTech behind the curtain! AI yi yi!
How Your Shadow Credit Score Could Decide Whether You Get an Apartment — ProPublica
I sound like a broken record. This is mostly a landord problem, in my view.
Summer camp? Ha ha, just kill me now. I stopped looking for housing again already, guess my landlord is waiting for war to end and lower interest rates to return. I don't know. Speaking of landlords,
Student living in crowded Windsor home finds new place
Live in a tent in a backyard? Congratulations, you're not homeless! LOL WTF? There is a tent in someone's front yard right around the corner from here, across from the mayor's house. I am not kidding. I did check to see if my own fine neighbors would rent me a tent, but no. It's okay. You can't save everyone. This is wine country.
So you are safe for now?
He’s not going to sell the apartment? If so GREAT news for you. Are you still needing to see a doc in the box? Let me know, mkay?
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Outrage Fatigue Indeed
I just have no words. Every body needs a home. A safe place to live. Most everybody (not including killers and abusers, I guess) deserves understanding and tolerance and basic human rights. Make the drugs legal, like Portugal did, Crime drops like 80%. Make having a home a human right, like Finland and other places do. We can do this, we can fix this. We won't. Or I should say, the PTB won't.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
How I got rid of Slugs
What I found that works well for me with the slugs takes a couple of weeks, and then the slugs are gone for the rest of the season. When the slugs first emerge, when it's warming up some and raining regularly, go out at night for about 10 or so minutes a night, and kill every slug you find. You can dump the slugs into a bucket of old cheap beer (heh, like your videos!), or salty water (about 7:1 water:salt). Dump the slime that results on your compost heap! Other slugs will come to feast on it, and die as well.
I have another element of this protocol, but I don't know if it'll work for you. My veggie beds were in the middle of old pasture. Pasture that had cows on it for like 50 years. So, the pasture was very good, very rich (lots of manure!) and because it's in the PacNW, in a wet area, very, very tall. It was great cover for the slugs. So I mowed a berm around the acre or so where I was growing the vegetables. The berm, or path, was about 4 to 8 feet wide. Just wide enough so that a slug sneaking in from the tall grass would die in the sun traveling over the short mowed grass. Paths in gardens, gravel, mulch, woodchips, grass, work well this way too.
So, I mowed the berm every week or so, then spent a few weeks picking up the slugs every night. After that, all the slugs in the garden area were gone, and no new ones could come in over the berm! After a couple years, all it really needed was the berm kept up. There were few slugs that ever made it into the growing area.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
No problem with slugs,
but lots of other ones, so I will plant marigolds around my garden.
I love your one acre plot! I live on a hill crest, so despite 11 acres of my acreage being a cow and horse pasture, it is on such a slope, it just isn't good for a garden. We did till up 20ft by 40ft. It is soil that is enriched by years of manure, and decades of deal oak leaves. Very black and rich.
We will have to erect some fence to keep out rabbits, coons, and armadillos. I have fencing material in my barn.
No slug issues. Ants are the problem. I hate to poison and poison, when all it does is move them. I have friends who swear that urine will kill them. That is cheap enough to produce! Lol!
Take care, try not to let the horrible events happening depress you. I believe we will survive.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Sounds like a fine beginning garden!
Slopes are tough but... maybe can do some perennials there; berries, grapes, etc. Maybe corn? I dunno, depends on the steepness.
Ants are a pain in the keyster, or they can be. I solved some of the problem with safer soap. It's organic, and it can work on them. I especially hate the cowboy type ants. They herd aphids and eat the juices the aphids excrete. They get all over the fruit trees, herding the aphids. The safer soap takes care of the aphids and the ants have to move on. We have tons, and tons, and tons of frogs around here. Pacific tree frogs and bullfrogs and so on. They eat a LOT of ants, and aphids and more. So they are very much encouraged.
Edited to add: What kind of fencing? We have to use fences to keep out rabbits and so on, sometimes. Having the open field really helps, because the predators keep back the little varmints. We use hog panels for the goat areas, our goats are small, and the panels keep out coyotes and cougars and such. Out in the field, we use electric netting. Around the herb garden we have wooden panel fencing, but that has to have chicken wire on it, to keep out the chickens and the stray rabbit or two! One thing that works really well, along with the fencing, is our dog. She's very, very smart and very attentive. If she's out and about, the varmints stay way.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Fencing
used here is called hog wire. Posts are t-posts. Easy to put up, easy to get out, rolled up, stored.
I have friends who are in our local Master Gardeners club that use soap as an insect repellent/killer. I haven't tried it, but might this year.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Soap works well
We make a mixture of soap and water, sometimes some vegetable oil as well. Just a bit of the oil and the soap. The oil lets the water/soap cling to the insect, the soap and oil together get through the insect's 'skin'. The mixture is great for taking care of caterpillars, like cabbage whites, and hard bodied insects too, as well as mites, aphids, ants etc. I don't have my recipe for it handy, but it's about 2.5 tbls of liquid soap (pure soap, or dishwashing soap) and 2.5 tbls of vegetable oil to 1 gal of water. We put it in a spray bottle or backpack sprayer to apply. Works great.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Sounds like the formula I have heard used before.
It also kills mosquitoes in big puddles, small ponds. We have a big skeeter problem here.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Thanks, Sima.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Hi Sima
That sounds like a very creative and effective solution you came up with for your garden and conditions.
Here, it’s been extremely hot and dry. You’d think that these conditions would have an impact on slugs, but no, they're eggs must be well alive in the soil. It seems like the watering I give the seeds also sprout the slugs.
I can’t count how many seeds, and how many times, in how many ways over the years I have planted them, only to be promptly devoured over one or two nights just after sprouting. At this point I am more amazed by their tenacity than I am bitter about their savagery. I will organise a pot and soil to plant cilantro seeds in (a favourite of theirs and mine), hoping this solution might produce some success. Collars work well once the plant is established and they can’t just drop in from a neighbouring leaf above it. They don’t like bending backwards and then over the lip. I just wish they were big enough to pick off and dump down the bank, and the eggs under my seeds don't germinate.
Happy gardening and more comfortable weather.
Gads, that's a lot of slug and snail species!
Eep! It's funny how the native species don't eat the plants, but the dead stuff, but the invasive ones eat plants, like here in the PacNW. I know that's not cut and dried, but it sure seems that way. I am lucky in that I'm not gardening under tree cover. That's rare for here, but I lucked out and got some old pasture land for growing things. In fact, just about every tree on my land I planted myself. Heh. So I don't get them dropping from above into the plants. I've experienced how watering brings up the young slugs/snails from eggs that are in the dry soil. It sucks. That's why I would go out every night and hunt slugs in the dark for 10 or 15 minutes or so. After a few weeks, if I kept new ones out of the growing area, the slug eggs would be all hatched and gone.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Thanks Sima
I will try to be more robust about picking the tiny ones off before they become bigger, but what a pain. The leaves above the seedlings I was referring to were of neighbouring garden plants, like kale that is taller.
It must be very satisfying to see trees growing that you gave life to.
Thanks for the insights
The black slugs have started overwintering in my fields and showing up in a few garden spaces. Still small enough the chickens eat all the pickings provided.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.