Open Thread - Thurs 26 Oct 2023: Learning about The Bridge

Submitted by Sima on Thu, 10/26/2023 - 5:00am

Learning about The Bridge

A few weeks ago I read an article, entitled 'The Bridge', by Scott Ritter about the experiences of his father-in-law (and others, including himself and his wife) in the Abkhazian war of 1992-93. The what? Well, that was my first reaction to the first mention of the war in the article. So I researched it. Wikipedia has the usual, sometimes boring, informative, coming from 'approved' history, article. It gives background and information and taught me a bit about the war. The BBC also has a short profile of Abkhazia which is informative. The region (much of the rest of the world does not recognize it as a country), whatever, is on the east coast of the Black Sea, and was/is part of Georgia once. Both were part of the USSR.


Map of the Region, from the BBC article linked above.

The Abkhazian war erupted in 1992 as tensions following the fall of the USSR grew. Ethnic Abkhazians, supported by Russians and Armenians, fought to regain the region from Georgian government control. In doing so, they massacred thousands of ethnic Georgians (and vice versa) and internally displaced or made into refugees something like 250,000 ethnic Georgians (see Wikipedia article linked above). The capital city is Sukhumi (founded by the Greeks in 6th C BCE) and was/is a place Russians go to vacation. The region/country's economy is greatly dependent upon tourism from Russia (see BBC article linked above). Time magazine did a photo essay of Abkhazia 20 years after the war (10 years ago), it's worth looking at and reading to learn more about the region.

With that little bit of learning I was able to place Ritter's article, 'The Bridge', in context, so to speak. And after reading it, all I have to say is...

I am ashamed that I did not know of Abkhazia or the conflicts and wars that happened in that area of the world as the Soviet Union fell, disintegrated and lost (and perhaps regained) control. I am ashamed but, how many wars am I supposed to know about? How can a human do that? So, I have to learn more. I guess that's a goal for my young old age period.

I am sorry that so many suffer so much, so often, as Ritter's wife's family suffered. Those who suffer have stories that are all different and all very personal, and yet they are all the same. All for... I dunno. I'm not in a place to judge, I cannot judge. Would I suffer to 'liberate' my country? Probably. Would I suffer if others were liberating their country and I was in it? Probably. Is this all just part of being a human animal? Is that what war is? I don't know. I do know this, WAR IS STUPID. But then, we all know that, don't we?


An abandoned train station in Tkvarcheli, Abkhazia. From this site, Roman Robroek Photography, which has more great pictures of the region and good information, which is very sad, in a way, about the state of the area in 2019.

Anyway, if you can, read Ritter's story of his father-in-law (linked above). I give much respect to his father-in-law, much respect to Ritter. I think the article helps me understand how Scott Ritter became who he is, diamonds, warts and all. And it helps me learn about experiences in other parts of the world, at other times, and relate them to times now. After all, Ritter's father-in-law could have been Palestinian, Ukranian, Crimean, Afghanistani, Turkish... some of the experiences would be much the same, I think. And the horror and sorrow would be the same for sure.

So, thanks for reading and here's the open thread - and remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving!

Tags: 
Open Thread
#scott_ritter
#abkhazia
#war
#refugee
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Submitted by Sima on Thu, 10/26/2023 - 5:40am
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Hope the week has gone well! It's finally gotten cold enough to put down a nighttime frost here. I guess we'll start taking down the tomatoes in the greenhouse soon. Heh. Other than that, the almost full moon is nice. Heard a coyote with one call that sounded like a little girl screaming last night. And then today, I heard a goose whose honk sounded like a puppy squealing. Kinda strange!

So, tell us about whatever is on your mind!

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Submitted by Enchantress on Thu, 10/26/2023 - 8:29am

How are you supposed to know about these things unless you see them? What passes for news is anything but. My son lives next door on my property. Sometimes he comes over before work. Many times, he has remarked "Why is that news?" to what is on. It's not. It's infotainment. If they actually showed the news, people might actually demand to have something done about all the problems in this country. And we can't have that.

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Submitted by Sima on Fri, 10/27/2023 - 3:20am
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@Enchantress
I say that to my Mom when I'm at her house as well. So great minds think alike! We certainly aren't very well informed by the news anymore. Maybe we never were? I dunno.

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by on the cusp on Thu, 10/26/2023 - 8:39am

I learned on a tour of Georgia and Armenia. It wasn't newsworthy, it seems.
The guides in both countries did inform we tourists that the most likely place for WWIII to break out was there.
I have a long day in court, will be back this evening to catch up with current events which affect us all, and over which we have absolutely zero control.
The world is fubar.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by Sima on Fri, 10/27/2023 - 3:22am
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@on the cusp
I hope things went well. I think the guides were right, it could be where WWIII breaks out. But then, so many other places could too, and how sad and disgusting is that?

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Thu, 10/26/2023 - 12:17pm
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Abkhazia and Ossetia via the so called Rose Revolution. Georgia, with or without Abkhazia/Ossetia, is part of pipelineistan. Though the "Rose" in rose revolution comes from the flower, it was pretty much the first "color revolution" I learned of. Take a quick peek at the segment of a world that includes Georgia - right between Azerbaijan/Armenia and Evil nasty Rooshia.

The Caspian basin is full of oil/petroleum and, even during detente and the collapse of the USSR, we wanted to prevent any of that oil from transiting either Iran or Russia on its way to Europe. This was to culminate in the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline, which, in part, transits Georgia. Legacy routes involved going up the east side of the Caspian through Kazakhstan and over and down to the Russian Black Sea port of Novorossiysk. Lots of Russkie rail and pipelines were involved. Other routes ran up the west side, also to Novorossiysk , many thru Chechnya (You do remember Chechnya, right), which had a bonus in that the Chechens had their own petroleum resources to add to the stream.

Meanwhile, Georgia's president, Eduard Shevardnadze, who was pretty much liked and approved of by all, both within and without Georgia fucked up and began negotiations with Russia to arrange for the movement of oil through/from Georgia up to Novorossiysk and overnight Georgia was knee deep in "independent NGOs", all with newspapers, newsletters, broadsheets and the like denouncing Shevardnadze on various grounds and declaring that the last election was fraudulent, organizing demonstrations and the like, and culminating in a mass demonstration led by US stooge and tool (and ukie) Saakashvili. Eventually, Shevardnadze was forced to step down. The myriad instant pop-up NGOs were largely funded, surprise, surprise, by foreign governments in the US orbit and George Soros' Open Society Institute. Saakashvili wound up running the show and everything went downhill from there.

be well and have a good one

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Submitted by Sima on Fri, 10/27/2023 - 3:41am
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@enhydra lutris
history! I knew it was all entangled with 'energy' (oil) but didn't realize how much. Now I've got a lot more to look up and learn about. Thanks!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by humphrey on Thu, 10/26/2023 - 1:21pm

regards to the war crimes being committed by Israel in Gaza.

https://www.barrons.com/news/un-says-nowhere-is-safe-in-gaza-amid-israel...

The United Nations issued a stark warning Thursday that "nowhere is safe" in Gaza amid stepped up Israeli air raids in preparation for a widely expected ground offensive.

With Israel retaliating after Hamas's shock October 7 attacks with strikes on nearly every part of the Palestinian enclave, "people are left with nothing but impossible choices. Nowhere is safe in Gaza," Lynne Hastings, UN humanitarian coordinator for the occupied Palestinian territory, said in a statement.

Edited to add:

Either that is true or he just a lying SOB!

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Submitted by Sima on Fri, 10/27/2023 - 3:45am
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@humphrey
nowhere is safe in Gaza. Nowhere. I think this is the 'final solution' and Israel is going to kill and displace all the Palestinians. Not even reservations will be left.

As for Biden, I have no words. None. Just gotta shake my head in disgust.

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by earthling1 on Thu, 10/26/2023 - 1:54pm
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From this point forward, everytime I hear the term Holocaust, I will think of the Palestinian people.

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
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Submitted by Sima on Fri, 10/27/2023 - 3:46am
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@earthling1
And I agree. Gaza Holocaust. An Israeli 'Final Solution'.

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by soryang on Thu, 10/26/2023 - 4:10pm
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Thanks Sima! My understanding of the Georgian wars is somewhat limited. I often feel as if the US is meddling in the affairs of other states no matter how remote to serve its imperial goals, and that the lives of others are simply dismissed as not worthy of consideration. Once the old divide and conquer pattern is recognized, the moral bankruptcy of such meddling, leads me to look away, in disgust. The manipulation of ethnic divides within a state, is based upon a premise, that Hannah Arendt condemned in the Origins of Totalitarianism, the notion that the borders of the state as a political entity needed to correspond to the ethnic and cultural identity of one principal group. The rest were the "other" to be discriminated against, deprived of civil identity and then eliminated. I'm certain she would take a very dim view of the ongoing Zionist project as a paradigm of this grievously defective and exploitable concept of state.

Although I'm somewhat familiar with this Korean history I hadn't noted the coincidence of the dates of the assassination of Resident General Ito Hirobumi and Park Chung-hee on Oct 26 of the respective years 1909 and 1979.

I can't get Tim's tweet to load. So here's the link with a pictures of Kim Jae-gyu sitting at the table tied up on the right. (Is that a bottle of Chivas?). And Ahn Jung-geun, photo on the right.

https://twitter.com/TimothyS

I have one historical post concerning Ito Hirobumi related to Korea-Japan relations, still relevant, It's probably my most viewed English interpretation of a South Korean historical broadcast.

(Source- KBS 1 History Journal, ep. 199) Ito (right) was assassinated by Korean patriot Ahn Jung-geun (left), October 26, 1909 in Harbin, China.

Ito Hirobumi and Colonization of Korea

I was looking through some wikipedia links related to the Park Chung-hee assassination and found the Kim Jae-gyu, bio on wikipedia, a good segue into the topic. Kim Jae-gyu's relationship to the opposition leader Kim Young-sam who later became president of South Korea is very interesting.

Kim Jae-gyu

These are some other odd but characteristically Korean things that came up recently:

S. Korean military was unaware of N. Korean boat that crossed NLL for more than 3 hours

John Linton, descendant of US missionaries and naturalized Korean citizen, to lead PPP’s reform effort

I doubt it. Missionaries/ministers are a suspect class. They make a great vehicle for foreign intelligence influence.

Moon Unification Church heir with family connection to Kahr Arms, leads cult event in Pennsylvania-

Rod Of Iron Festival In Pennsylvania Shows How Dangerous And Deranged This MAGA Cult Is

The Rod of Iron Festival in the woods of Greeley, Pennsylvania, sure knows how to put on a show: a 50 person choir flown in from Japan, firearm giveaways, and a bonfire. Too bad it’s all organized by a cult that “worships” guns and was started by one of the sons of Reverend Moon, the founder of the Unification Church who claims to be a messiah.

Since 2020, the Pennsylvania Sanctuary Church, a sect of the Unification Church (aka The Moonies), has held a festival in October celebrating firearms, the 2nd Amendment, and of course former President Donald Trump. The former President has never attended, but they have been able to pull in conservative names like Dana Loesch, Alan Gottlieb, Steve Bannon, and this year Sebastian Gorka and Jack Posobiec.

The article says that the choir there was flown in from Japan. The Unification Church organization in Japan is on shaky ground after the assassination of Shinzo Abe. Concern over fund raising excesses were alleged to have motivated the assassin; the assassin's mother gave away the family savings to the Moon organization. Abe and other LDP politicians were said to have political ties to the organization. Prime Minister Kishida at one point, reshuffled his cabinet, removing known Unification Church support recipients. Don't know if it's possible to staff an LDP cabinet, without Unification Church connections.

This article suggests as of June this year, the Japanese government was seeking to remove the organization's status as a Church.

Japan asks court to strip Unification church of religious status

Abe’s grandfather, the former prime minister Nobusuke Kishi, was instrumental in helping the church establish a presence in Japan in the late 1950s to counter the growing influence of communism and trade unionism.

The suspect in Abe’s assassination, Tetsuya Yamagami, said he blamed the church for bankrupting his family after his mother, a member, donated more than 100m yen to the group two decades ago.

In the months after Abe’s death, reports emerged of the church’s close ties with politicians, including a large number of MPs belonging to the ruling Liberal Democratic party.

In response, Kishida ordered party members to cut their links with the church and launched an investigation that focused on how it raised money to fund its activities around the globe.

Credit to Tim S. for tweeting/Xing the English language links to some of the above reports.

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Submitted by Sima on Fri, 10/27/2023 - 4:31am
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@soryang
There is a lot to learn here for me, I am diving right in! I had no idea a Moonie sub-cult was all out Maga. I have no idea why, I mean, why do they trust what Trump says now, instead of what he said 20-10 years ago? Ohh well, maybe I'm just too cautious or disbelieving or something. Reading about Kim and Park... very, very interesting! Thank you!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so