Open Thread - Thurs 22 June 2023: Growing in Containers

Growing in Containers:
First off, this is an open thread, so post whatever you want in the comments, please! Me, I'm gonna be talking about growing plants in containers. This is something I've done for a long time and learned to make fairly easy and profitable and as completely organic as possible.


Anything can be a container! Anything Smile

Experience: I've grown plants in containers on the balcony/porch of my apartments in Philadelphia and Bryn Mawr, PA, in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England, as well as here in the PacNW of USA. The containers have been on the porch, in the greenhouse, in the hoop house and out in the garden. Every house or apartment I've lived has had house plants, which I love. I've got 30 year old houseplants, which have given other plant starts each time I divide them every few years. And I don't 'do' anything but water the houseplants, divide them once in a while and repot them at that time.

I've grown corn, potatoes, tomatoes, peppers, squash and melons, broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, mesclun, beans, peas, all kinds of flowers, berries, fruit trees, and more in pots. Once I learned the 'rules', at least those needed for my growing habitats, I've been successful with growing just about everything I wanted.

potato_boxes_sml.jpg
One year we grew potatoes in boxes, each box about 3 ft by 3 ft. Here they are in July. They produced a LOT of potatoes!

The 'Rules' or Considerations, as I Know Them:
1. The Pots or Containers: Clean, clean, clean. We grow many of our plants, like tomatoes and peppers (and squash, etc!), in 8 inch plastic pots. I hate the plastic, but we clean the pots between uses and we've had these pots (which I bought when I started the farm) for 30 years! Our flowers go into other size pots, and those get cleaned before each use as well. The seedling flats and trays also get cleaned and reused. Even the pots made from ceramics get cleaned.

To clean pots and trays we use a common household cleaner, like Mr. Clean. We use a scrub brush, and scrub them down, then rinse them out, wash them in water with the cleaner in it, then put them into a 'soak' for 20 minutes or so. The 'soak' is water with bleach in it; it's about 1 gal bleach to 15-20 gal of water. This bleach water will be strong for about 2 hours. So we can do 6 soaks in that time. We wash all our pots, our seedling and water trays, flats, etc, this way. Once 2 hours is up, and the bleach water is not strong anymore, we dump it on the cement floor of the greenhouse and spread it all over. This stops moss, molds, algae, fungi, and ants! We only dump once or twice a year, usually in the early spring when washing all the pots. But the effects of dumping the bleach water last us all year. Ohh, and the bleach water is almost 'done' when it is dumped and will be 'done' (the bleach has degraded and is not potent) soon after. Once the bleach water has lost its strength it can go into the environment and not harm, or poison, anything. Once in a while, I'll dump some old bleach water (from cleaning in the house) on parts of the floor, or throw it against the plastic and glass walls in the greenhouse which tend to stay wet (from plant leaks/drippings/etc). This stops molds and algae from growing.

2. Placement. You truly can put the container pot of your plant just about anywhere, with some considerations:
a. Sunlight - Most plants need a fair amount of light, or very strongly lit shade. Place the container where that is possible.
b. Air - Most plants need air. By that I mean air that moves gently, not stagnant, not super stale and super hot or cold. So, inside, by a window or in an area that gets air (like on a table in the living room), is great.
c. At the same time, unless the plant is a cactus, protect it from extreme heat. Water it often when it's hot/warm outside, mist its leaves, or take care to moderate the heat. We've got a fan which turns on in the greenhouse when it's over 85-90 in there and moves the air through, cooling everything. We had the same in the hoop house.

3. Bad Guys - Bugs and So on
Washing pots and trays will help control diseases, molds, and so on. Washing also kills baby aphids and such. Rinsing the floors and walls with the bleach water does this too.

If you get diseases, like molds, etc, treat organically, if possible. We haven't gotten these in years, but when we did, we sometimes got white mold. You can buy organic sprays for these, which we did.

Aphids - to us these are the curse of greenhouse growing, and very prevalent at times outside on roses, fruit trees, etc. We spray the outside plants (and inside ones if needed) with something like safer soap. We make our own, with regular hand washing dish soap, diluted in water, with a bit of vegetable oil to make it stick. I learned over time, and my husband did too, that the aphids outside were only bad for a couple of weeks, until their predators hatched and brought everything under control. Some ants will farm aphids on fruit trees, like we farm cattle. Except for the farmed aphids, we now just let nature take its course, and the predator bugs outside take out the bad bugs every season, all the time.

This applies inside the greenhouse and hoop house as well. We leave the greenhouse door open all season with a block at the bottom to stop animals. Leaving the door open helps moderate the temperature, but it also lets the predatory bugs, like ladybugs, some wasps, mantis types, spiders, etc, into the greenhouse. They eat the bad bugs and do a great job. In the hoop house we use screens with large holes over the door, so the bugs can get in, but the birds can't.

Vermin - Cats and dogs are the best for keeping rodent type vermin away and out. Birds can eat fruit and vegetables too, so putting up screen to keep them out of the area is good, or put bird netting over the pots and garden beds! It'll keep out vermin too, depending upon the size of the holes in the netting. If you don't have natural deterrents, like cats and dogs, then traps, etc, can help. Also, planting some things that the vermin don't like, like marigolds, in pots around the vegetable/fruit pot helps too!

4. Feed and Water
Feeding is very important for vegetable, fruit and flowering plants grown in containers. It isn't that big a deal (in my experience) for house plants. We feed organic fertilizer (like Jobe organic granular plant food), or, sorry to admit it, Miracle-Gro (for tomatoes and flowering plants). I put a heaping teaspoon full of the food on the top of the 8 inch pot for each plant. I then dissolve it, over time, by watering. The plants love it. I do this about once a month for vegetables and fruit, maybe every 6 weeks for pots full of flowers.

When the plants are first planted into the larger pots (like the 8 inch pots) we use soil from our compost heap. So the soil starts off fertile. But after about a month or 6 weeks, the plants have exhausted the nutrients in the potting soil, and they have to be fertilized. One thing to note, we do NOT use soil from our compost heap to grow seeds in seedling flats/trays. The seeds are started in sterile organic potting soil, so they have less chance of getting 'sick' before they can grow, get strong and deal naturally with any illnesses.

Watering - check the plants' water every day. Water if the soil is dry or is going dry. Don't fill the water catch trays underneath the plants if possible. This is so the plants don't sit in algae infested water. Instead, water from the top of the pot. We've used automatic waterers, set with timers, or handwatering. All work well. Vegetables and fruits in the greenhouse have to be watered about twice a day. Pots with flowers and such on the porch, in the garden, etc, need to be watered frequently as well, but only a couple times a week if that. So keep an eye out.

And those are the basics for container planting, at least, in my experience. I know others have had, or are having their own experiences. I enjoyed usefewersyllables comments about the self-watering wheeled planter, for instance. I learned stuff! And there's also particulars which I didn't discuss for different types of vegetables and plants (supports, trellises, hoops, etc) as well. I'll go into those later if people are interested.

So, thanks for reading and here's the open thread - and remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving!

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Sima's picture

Can anyone identify this mushroom? Or whatever it is? Found it a couple days ago growing in my bucks' enclosure. It's about 7 inches in diameter! It was growing right where the bucks eat their treats (clippings and trimmings of trees, brambles, etc). I turned it over so there's a shot of its underside. Was worried it might be poisonous so threw it over the fence and away from my animals. Here it is:
mushroom_sml_21_jun_2023.jpg

And here's the underside:
mushroom_sml2_21_jun_2023.jpg

Hope everyone is having/has had a great Thursday! If you've got container/pot stories (even the smoking pot kind Wink Smile ) let us know. Would love to hear people's experiences and learnings. And, of course, post whatever you're reading and learning about!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Lookout's picture

...but the NW is such a different world from the SE.

I had a buddy in the nursery business who used grow bags to start trees...made it easy to dig up and sell. I played with the idea of using them to grow boxwoods or some high value ornamentals, but never followed through. Ornamentals have never been my thing I guess.

We too have house plants that are decades old...seem like old friends when they're in for the winter. They are happy to be outside in the rain this time of year. I've gone to plastic (fake terracotta type) pots just to cut back on the weight when lugging them in and out. As for fertilizing, don't forget the power of urine. Use less than a cup in a gallon of water. Works as well or better than miracle grow (which I use for occasional micronutrient deficiencies).

Containers are a good idea with invasive plants whose growth you want to limit. The pot provides a means of control (unless it seeds out).

Well happy gardening to all. Thanks for the OT!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

usefewersyllables's picture

@Lookout
are a must here in Colorado: otherwise, the water evaporates out instantly given our normal humidity level of "0%", and you end up watering twice a day in the heat of summer. I wear, it is almost as if the water instantly flashes into steam and is gone...

They had hen's egg size hail last night on the concert crowd up at Red Rocks, and had a fair number of injuries and some hospitalizations as a result. There is essentially no shelter available there, unless you make the often-long trek back to your car. We've now had 13.51" of total precip for the year, against a normal annual of 14.4": and we're in for another round of big storms tonight. We've already had the wettest June on record, after the 4th wettest May, so we'll probably clear our annual average before the first of July.

And after that: back to the desert, most likely...

rain_0.png

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

OLinda's picture

@usefewersyllables @usefewersyllables

I am 8 miles from Red Rocks Amphitheatre.

Thunder last night that literally had me jump in my seat. It would be somewhat quiet (under the circumstances) for a few minutes, just wind and rain, and then BOOM!

Will check the car for hail damage today.

Terrible time to be at Red Rocks. Hope it is not too serious for those injured.

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usefewersyllables's picture

@OLinda

2-3" of rain, and a half-inch of hail, as well as a tornado on the ground about 2 miles away. Driving home, the retention ponds were overflowing, and one highway onramp I pass was flooded deep enough that there were cars stalled in it with water up to their windows.

My wife tells me that one of the local news crews was up at Red Rocks reporting on last night's storm this afternoon, and got caught in today's storm- with apple-size hail. That'll be fun to watch.

And by what I see on the radar, it's just getting started. So we'll definitely break the average yearly precip barrier tonight... Batten 'em down, CO people!

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

OLinda's picture

@usefewersyllables

Yes, quite a hail storm here this evening. Louder than yesterday but no thunder to keep me hopping.

Sure cooled things off though which I appreciate.

Sorry you had to be out driving in it. Be safe!

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Sima's picture

@OLinda
Had the house hit by lightning before. Now, the dog and I cower when we hear thunder. Be safe! I hope the weather gets better, and the people at the concert recover quickly.

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Sima's picture

@usefewersyllables
But not like that. We are now in for a long phase of 70+ degree weather and no rain. I will be watering soon. I never thought about water evaporating so quickly with containers, although I should have. The humidity can be about 10% in the hoop house. We've used automated misters to combat that.

Thanks for stopping by and commenting!

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4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Sima's picture

@Lookout
Those are cool. I've never used them, or heard of them really, before. Thanks for the link! I've used old milk cartons as plant pots, started my black locust tree in a milk carton! It's now about 4 trees, 40 or more feet tall Smile .

I didn't even think about mentioning fertilizing with urine, I've done it before tho. I didn't like the smell, after a while. However, we use it outside. It keeps the coyotes away too! And the rabbits! And it's very cool that it can replace miracle-gro.

I have to check my mushroom book, maybe the mushroom is in there. Could it be this? Leucopaxillus giganteus, maybe? I sure don't know Smile . Thanks for the great comment and info. I learned things!

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4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

enhydra lutris's picture

instructions. I am generally pretty remiss as to stuff like pot cleaning and such, which probably accounts for much of my frequent failures and general lack of success wrt container gardening. Nonetheless I have some successes, though my wife does far better. My best success is with starter plants produced by somebody else as opposed to stuff I tried to grow from seed, with the exception of carrots. It is pretty much time to get started on this year's crop(s), too late actually, but such is life. I did have a tiny bit of success sowing white clover in one planting bed after the crops were in and started, sort of a quasi-self-feeding planting bed.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Sima's picture

@enhydra lutris
I love carrots, and can't grow them very well. Not in regular beds, not in raised beds, not in containers. I think there are some nemotodes (I misspelled that, didn't I?) in the soil here that kind of do carrots in. So kudos to you and carrots!

It's late to plant, but I'm gonna do it anyway. I still have time, I tell myself, I still have time. So, we still have time!

That's a good idea with the white clover. We used to use that in the fields as cover crop, and it worked really well. Never thought about using it in smaller beds. I'm gonna try! Thanks for teaching me a few things and for stopping by!

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4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Sima. Now to get back to more mundane stuff.

Biden's teleprompter attempts damage control for his latest gaff.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4062935-biden-downplays-call...

Excerpts from the article:

President Biden on Thursday said that he doesn’t think that calling Chinese President Xi Jinping a dictator impacted the U.S.-China relationship.

“I don’t think it’s had any real consequence,” Biden said during remarks at the White House alongside Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

Beijing on Wednesday bashed Biden’s description of Xi, calling it “extremely absurd and irresponsible.”

“When we’re talking to our allies and partners around the world, including India, we let the idea of my choosing and avoiding saying what I think is the facts with regards to the relationship… with China is just not something that I’m going to change very much,” Biden said. “I believe —and I’ve said this for some time — that the hysteria about the relationship with China is collapsing and moving, etc., etc.”

The president on Thursday also added that Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who was just in China, had “a great trip.” He has previously praised Blinken this week for doing a good job in China to mend the U.S.-Chinese relationship.

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snoopydawg's picture

@humphrey

walk back the things Biden says. Tells the world that Biden isn’t in charge of anything more serious than picking what flavor of ice cream he wants. By my count this is the 6th time they have done this and poor Blinken. He got treated like a naughty puppy for no reason.

Did the UK just play chicken with Russia by bombing the bridge that connects to Crimea? Not quite an attack on Russian territory itself, but close. Russia warned that any attack on Crimea would be met with attacks on the decision making centers of Ukraine. Stupid people who are doing this need to wake the fck up before things escalate more.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Cassiodorus's picture

@snoopydawg Let's all vote for him. Not.

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"the Democratic Party is not 'left'." -- Sabrina Salvati

Sima's picture

@Cassiodorus
NOT. Not voting for him, NOT NOT NOT.

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3 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Sima's picture

@humphrey
do an animated image of Biden and then AI for whatever he says. I bet it'll be just as good/bad as a live version of him.

Can anyone take the president seriously? I don't think it's possible right now.

Thanks for stopping by and commenting.

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4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

mimi's picture

Sigh, some fifty five years ago my dear sweet sister fell in love with a very good looking man (that was very important to her). He was born and raised in Goa in India, and it was never quite clear to me if he felt more like a Portuguese or more like an Indian. Anyhow, my sister visited her husbands homeland in Goa and there she saw for the first time a bamboo grove, which she fell in love with.

So, when she seduced her husband to move with her in my parents house in grey, wet and cold northern Germany near Hamburg, she tried to make him feel a bit more "at home" and planted some bamboo plants in our garden.

oh well, who knew that bamboo roots run under the surface horizontally and then new bamboo shoots pop up everywhere.

Can you imagine that the bamboo plants in our garden go on my nerves? I would want to kill the bamboo plants for good and all the new bamboo shoots too.

But this plant seems to be "immortal"

Any ideas how I could Kill the bamboo plants in our garden?

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@mimi

it is a very labor intensive operation using an adze, shovel, axe and
other implements of destruction. I gave some root stock to a friend
and he now has his own little plantation as barrier to a neighbor.
Our stand came from a neighbor, too (under the fence). I use the
stalks as supports for the veggies.
good luck

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Sima's picture

@QMS
is a good idea! We do that, when we have to cut down taller bamboo stalks. They dry and make very good tomato, bean, pepper, etc supports. Digging up the tap roots can take out the bamboo but it's really hard work, as you noted. We sort of just cut them down, and then mow the area over and over until it gives up (IF it gives up, heh).

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4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

@mimi @mimi But she did it for love.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Sima's picture

@on the cusp
Have a great day and weekend!

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4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Sima's picture

@mimi
But as you say, it grows horizontally, like frapping blackberries can. So, to keep the bamboo under control here's what I do. I cut down any tall shoots which have grown over the winter when the season starts, then I use a regular lawn mower, and mow down the new shoots before they get over 6 or 8 inches tall. It works, but it can be tedious.

Using the stalks for veggie support works as QMS mentions below. We use them to support tomatoes in the greenhouse.

Hope you can get the bamboo under control. Be well and thanks for stopping by!

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3 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

mimi's picture

@Sima

I just mow over all the new shoots. But they are everywhere in dense bush and flower beds too.

Oh yeah, my sister did all that out of love. What kind of stuff we do out of love ... can you believe it ?

Ok I will now ignore the bamboo. What an arrogant lover, thinks it is the alpha and omega of all plants., and must be loved accordingly. Not me, buddy. You and me that is now a love over life and death. Watch me. I will win. Fool

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Sima's picture

@humphrey
do what the Chinese celebs do, and work in the fields with the people. Maybe they'd learn a bit and be more respectful about those who produce and supply their food!

up
3 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

soryang's picture

@humphrey ...in China on youtube. I'm not sure what happened to her after she became a superstar. She had a brand of home products, wares, and clothing named after her. She went into a business deal with some corporation who ripped her off taking her trade mark. I guess she didn't read the fine print. After she got bogged down in litigation, she notified her audience that she wouldn't be making videos for some time, because she didn't want to promote her brand, which no longer belonged to her. Her attitude was why should I give them free advertising? Millions of people watched her videos.

Wow. She's back apparently!

She's into all the traditional crafts, she grew plants and herbs for her own use, made her own clothes, did a lot of food processing the traditional Chinese way. Then of course she prepared her meals from natural foods. She is actually a genius, I think, the mcgiver of the Chinese country life.

She spawned a large number of imitators particularly in Southeast Asia, where ordinary people began televising their rural life, and markets on the street in their village. Some of these people were pioneers in their own right, building huts, cabins and simple homes to live in, raising pigs, chicken, and fish. They also of course were farmers and did a bit of gathering in nearby jungle, bamboo thickets, etc. They raise virtually all their food on their small farms carved out of the forest. I watched a few of these rural youtubers literally build much of what they use, by the way from bamboo, an extremely versatile resource. Fences, buildings, containers, baskets, piping for irrigation, etc.

My wife is virtually hooked on these videos showing traditional folkways sometimes with varying degrees of modern tools and implements. Besides, southeast Asia, there are now youtubers from Azerbaijan, Georgia doing the same.

Ly Thi Ca one of Mrs So's favorites, we call Ly Thi Ca superwoman because she is so strong.
Vang Hoa I think this couple is representative of the SE Asian genre
Green forest life
Lu'u Linh Building New Life
Life Outside Freedom
Ly Mai Farmer
Forest Life skills DT
Thanh Trieu TV
Kong Survival / Off Grid Living
Building Life
Wild forests of the Carpathian

I was amused when a old Korean American friend of my wife came to visit for a few days last week. She hadn't seen this kind of video before she came to our home. She became enthralled right away. I saw her and my wife sitting on the floor at a small table preparing cabbage, chives, and garlic, while one of these programs was on in the background. For a moment, I thought I had been transported back to a traditional Korean village.

Example of the Liziqi copycats below:

Her videos are in a class all their own.

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語必忠信 行必正直

soryang's picture

@soryang ...but apparently, is not posting videos. Who knows whether she will or not. Apparently, she got her business back, but it's going to take time to collect? Anyway, it seems she has some other things she wants to accomplish.

This is her story as of a few weeks ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLSzM80IQ6k

Can't share the video. It's eight minutes, fairly interesting. I didn't know her background. Her videos didn't have much in the way of dialogue, just music or nature sounds. Aesthetically, very pleasing.

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3 users have voted.

語必忠信 行必正直