Open Thread - Friday, July 3, 2015

Hello, I hope everyone is well. I am looking forward to the mass exodus of people. They are headed to the beach and leaving the bar stools empty. The NC beaches have had a fair bit of excitement. You would think someone would connect the dots to the warmer water.

I see where Daytona Speedway is exchanging American flags for Confederate battle flags.

God bless the USA.

Celebrate freedom, march on.

Have a great Independence Day weekend.

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I finally looked at the meltdown diary Unabashed liberal shared with us yesterday. Definitely a meltdown and definitely a clock.

I was looking for something else and found this. Found it interesting in that it confirmed some of what I remember and miss and some of what is totally wrong with that place. If it has a mission, it isn't progressive politics. That place is as progressive as my grandmother's diabetic socks.

Btw Joe, nice compliment was paid to you in that meltdow diary. Paraphrasing it said, evening blues made the front page look sick. Sorry I did't take a link.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

mimi's picture

They want to make me into the latest Jesse Jackson, but I'm not ideological at all," Moulitsas told me, "I'm just all about winning."

Exactly and he has lost.

"The simplest fact about American politics," he told me, "is that Republicans have a noise machine and we don't." Daily Kos, he decided, would become the Democratic noise machine

and by that pulled the Democrats into the sewer.

And Simon Rosenberg, the president of the centrist New Democratic Network (NDN), says that "frankly I don't think there's anyone who's had the potential to revolutionize the Democratic Party that Markos does." This great faith has put Moulitsas--an extremely smart, irascible, self-contradictory, often petty, always difficult, non-practicing attorney and web programmer with no real political experience--in the position of trying to understand, on the fly, what real power is and how it might be exercised, thrust him into a flailing, wild-eyed and bold solitary venture, trying to turn a website into a movement.

Not only does that sound like a dangerously wild-eyed solitary adventure, but the movement that is building turns against him. And I think rightfully so.

The site is for the true believers, not the aesthetes; its tone is harsh, impassioned, and frequently humorless.
And sometimes infantile and absurd. The site in recent months has become to seem like the site of some arcane political Thermidor with puzzled liberals being endlessly impaled upon pikes. In June 2003, after television cameras caught a cheering, thousand-strong mob in Fallujah dragging the charred, dismembered bodies of American contractors through the streets, Moulitsas linked to the reports and said of the contractors: "I feel nothing… Screw them."

Yep infantile and cruel at the same time. Kids can be like that.

"Scoop has the potential to revolutionize political participation," the NDN's Rosenberg told me. "The old model was that you used your body to take part in the political process--you drove voters to the polls, registered them. Markos's model is: You use your mind. You get to figure out what the party ought to be doing, you get to figure out what's wrong with the Bush administration, you get to be the intellectual. It's an infinitely more involving activity." Soon, Moulitsas's site had spawned eponymous new stars, well-read diarists who carried Moulitsas's crusades forward when he was otherwise engaged or asleep: Billmon, DavidNYC, Bill in Portland, Maine. If they were good--or outrageous--enough, he promoted them to the main site, allowing them to share space with him and exposing them to an audience that was growing by the tens of thousands.

It were only the "stars" he attracted and manipulated to the Front Page or away from it, that carried the site. Never his own writing. And that was very obvious.

When none of these things happened, there was a sense of incomprehension. All of Kos's confident predictions had been wrong. "It's a valid criticism. Looking back, I was too optimistic," Moulitsas told me. "[At] the beginning, I didn't even know what a margin of error was."

Did he go to college? Never had a basic statistic class? It's worse than I thought. I hadn't read much in the first years on the dailykos. But I always sensed something is not right. Markos used and in the later years abused the addictiveness of so called "spirited, noisy, splashy, cool" commenting and writing.

Moulitsas is touchy, far too self-assured, and easily provoked. But he's more interesting in person than he is on his blog, more thoughtful and funny and even a little bit more capable of self-criticism. He laughs, he makes fun of himself, he says absurd things and then takes them back, and then thinks again and doesn't--he actually enjoys himself. He told me a long story about egging on a blogger named Chris Bowers, who posts at MyDD.com, the same site where Moulitsas got his start. "I keep telling him, Chris, you've got to be an asshole, you're too soft for politics, the only way is to be an asshole, and you know what?" Moulitsas grins triumphantly. "He did. He's a lot tougher now."

Well only assholes would be proud of what he was saying. It's easy to make fun of yourself as a way to get away with "being the tough guy, who has no principles". He loved the hatemail he got. He used the hate mail to arouse feelings in the readers and enhance noise and division by posting the hate mail palooza. That's cheap, imo. Never could stand it. But from talking to kossacks in meet-ups I realized that people just loved that and thrived on them. That made me quite pensive and even more critical of his "tactics".

He paused for a minute, looking unusually non-agitated. "So the point is I know I have only a certain amount of time like this, and I'd like to make sure I do something useful with it."
The only nagging question is: What?

Apparently the usefulness is limited to noise diaries with the kind of bbb and BJ. So my nagging question is:
"What were you thinking you are doing, Markos?" I never came to the site for your writing, actually I thought it was horrible what you sometimes said. I came for the real journalists, who stood away from the noise (who you also used/abused as the ones who had to do the dirty work of "censoring" the people, who got too exited and upset in comments. Would have been much fairer to do THAT kind of work yourself. But in the end this is a "classy" site outsourcing the real work to those well-meaning and responsible writers ... pretty much for pennies on the dollar, I believe.

It so sad. I wonder what the same auther from the Washington Monthly would write today about the site.
And I regret to not have known more about the US and having discovered the EB so late.

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lotlizard's picture

In hindsight, that explains a lot about That Other Forum intentionally not living up to its potential.

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joe shikspack's picture

well, i'm hitting the road for the 4th, off to visit friends and relatives in pennsylvania for the weekend.

i scheduled a photo and music diary for tonight, but for some mystical gos reason it decided to publish now. so i'm just going to leave it up. i just don't feel like messing with it.

i'll post the photos in a separate diary here in a couple of minutes.

everybody have a great 4th!

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We are already up north at the lake, arrived yesterday around 2 pm. Cops everywhere. Be careful and enjoy your holiday weekend.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

smiley7's picture

and Tim; gingerly tip your toes into NC's coast for a while.

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NCTim's picture

Enjoying the lower population density.

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The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -

gulfgal98's picture

so there is not reason to go anywhere else for this holiday. I hope you have a wonderful holiday too, smiley. Smile

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

link

Though its existence was secret until last year, JTRIG quickly developed a distinctive profile in the public understanding, after documents from NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden revealed that the unit had engaged in “dirty tricks” like deploying sexual “honey traps” designed to discredit targets, launching denial-of-service attacks to shut down Internet chat rooms, pushing veiled propaganda onto social networks and generally warping discourse online....
Among other things, the document lays out the tactics the agency uses to manipulate public opinion, its scientific and psychological research into how human thinking and behavior can be influenced, and the broad range of targets that are traditionally the province of law enforcement rather than intelligence agencies.

It isn't just the UK. Canada does it too.

You've probably run into them before -- those seemingly random antagonizers who always end up diverting the conversation in an online chat room or article comment section away from the issue at hand, and towards a much different agenda. Hot-button issues like illegal immigration, the two-party political system, the "war on terror" and even alternative medicine are among the most common targets of such attackers, known as internet "trolls" or "shills," who in many cases are nothing more than paid lackeys hired by the federal government and other international organizations to sway and ultimately control public opinion.
Several years ago, Canada's CTV News aired a short segment about how its own government had been exposed for hiring secret agents to monitor social media and track online conversations, as well as the activities of certain dissenting individuals. This report, which in obvious whitewashing language referred to such activities as the government simply "weighing in and correcting" allegedly false information posted online, basically admitted that the Canadian government had assumed the role of secret online police. At the time, this was a great unknown to the general Canadian public.
Of course, the same type of online patrolling by the government is also happening in the U.S., particularly from the CIA and its infamous In-Q-Tel program. At a 2012 summit, former CIA director David Petraeus essentially admitted that the CIA has a covert online presence that it uses not only for data mining purposes but also to infiltrate online conversations for the purpose of protecting "national security" interests. Such interests, it turns out, include disrupting conversations that discuss topics like 9/11 truth, for instance, or U.S. involvement in giving weapons to Syrian rebels.

The U.S. government has also been caught censoring Reddit and Wikipedia.
So the next time you run into someone acting like the paid mouthpiece of the status quo, you might be right.

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(Reuters) - Euro zone countries tried in vain to stop the IMF publishing a gloomy analysis of Greece's debt burden which the leftist government says vindicates its call to voters to reject bailout terms, sources familiar with the situation said on Friday.

The document released in Washington on Thursday said Greece's public finances will not be sustainable without substantial debt relief, possibly including write-offs by European partners of loans guaranteed by taxpayers.

It also said Greece will need at least 50 billion euros in additional aid over the next three years to keep itself was afloat.

The fact that the IMF delayed releasing the report until after the negotiations were over shows that the IMF was complicit in this coverup.
It also shows that Syriza was telling the truth. Here's what the IMF reported:

Even with concessional financing through 2018, debt would remain very high for decades and highly vulnerable to shocks. Assuming official (concessional) financing through end–2018, the debt-to-GDP ratio is projected at about 150 percent in 2020, and close to 140 percent in 2022 (see Figure 4ii). Using the thresholds agreed in November 2012, a haircut that yields a reduction in debt of over 30 percent of GDP would be required to meet the November 2012 debt targets. With debt remaining very high, any further deterioration in growth rates or in the mediumterm primary surplus relative to the revised baseline scenario discussed here would result in significant increases in debt and gross financing needs (see robustness tests in the next section below). This points to the high vulnerability of the debt dynamics.
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