Open Thread Friday 6-26-2020

When we started this conversation on China it may have seemed a little over the top to mention the US might be involved in a war with China. It is not a new concept and it did not begin with Trump and his appointment of Peter Navarro a China hawk.

This article "We Are Already At War With China" published in 2017 by CommonDreams highlights a 2015 video from The Daniel K. Inouye Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies (DKI APCSS), a US Department of Defense institute.

The professor did not use the word war. I suppose that word would be a bit awkward when talking about an adversary that holds over a trillion dollars worth of our bonds. But if it looks like a war, sounds like a war, and acts like a war, why not just call it a war?

This is not a war with weapons of the traditional kind, the ones that shoot bullets or explode, the professor explained. But it’s war nonetheless, being fought every day in many arenas, such as international financial institutions and economic organizations, foreign aid, telecommunications systems, ocean beds, outer space, cyberspace, as well as political maneuvering for control of the South China Sea, Tibet, and other lands on China’s rim.

We are at war with China. Who knew? Apparently, the Pentagon knew. So did all the “security practitioners” from friendly nations in the Asia-Pacific region who come to Waikiki to learn the arts of this new kind of war. The rest of us may not yet have gotten the memo.
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But the seeds of our violent conflicts, and how we planted them, go unseen by the general public at the time. The conflict is always blamed on “the enemy” who wants to do us some evil—like, for example, challenging the U.S.-led order and subverting overwhelming U.S. military power? That was often given as a reason to wage four decades of cold war against the communist bloc, including mainland China.

(full video 45 mi)(about a 4 min segment on South China Sea and 2020 targets)

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This article gives a fair explanation why US is trying to not have China be a leader in 5G technology.

If you look carefully, you will find that underlying major economic developments are fundamental innovations in communications.

One of my favorite examples is the development of railroads in the second half of the 19th century where telegraphic communications integral to railroad operation enabled the building of efficient transportation systems that transformed the industrial world.

Telegraphy enabled the control of the railroad traffic and the efficient operation of the trains over long distances. This network made possible the integration of resources, industrial and agricultural, over vast areas of the US, enabling the building of the world’s premier economy.
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Fast forward to the 20th century and the development of digital wired and wireless communications. More recently the Internet was combined with other new technologies to transform the world.
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5G wireless technology now being implemented will have a comparable transformational impact on industry and commerce. It enables powerful and flexible wireless access to a ground-based communication system able to handle enormous amounts of data. In particular, 5G enables reliable and ubiquitous machine-to-machine networks

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How we spend our money effects the economics of our communities. This author explained how very clearly.

Many people and even economists have real misconceptions as to how the economy works. Where money flows and who it enriches is a key component of economics, the failure to consider this is a blind spot many people have. After years of being told everything revolves around spending, this diminishes the important role savings plays in the scheme of a balanced economy. Fans of Keynesian economics that encourage government spending to stabilize the economy during a downturn tend to discount the importance that where and how money is spent matters a great deal.
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The following examples highlight this matter. Just for fun imagine the money allowing for these purchases is flowing from the recent 2.3 trillion dollar CARES Act.

Consumer one decides to put a new roof put on his home. This includes tear off and re-shingling. This labor-intense job pays a lot of local workers from those delivering and hauling away the old roof to those selling the shingles, those installing them, and even some folks at the local landfill. As a bonus, the shingles are made here in America. Putting even more ceiling on the cake is that it improves not only his property but raises values in his neighborhood enriching those living nearby.

Consumer two uses their money as a down payment on a new Hyundai. The Hyundai Motor Company is a South Korean multinational automotive manufacturer headquartered in Seoul. Hyundai builds the vast majority of its vehicles at its plant in Ulsan, South Korea. It also operates plants all over the world with one in Mexico and a plant in Alabama. When I tried to research how likely the car was to be made here I hit a wall. One thing for certain is that it is packed full of South Korean parts and with each sale a bunch of dollars heads overseas.

In the final example consumer three slaps, small businesses, brick and mortar retailers, and the 30 million-plus Americans recently unemployed in the face. His online purchase from Amazon of products made in China and shipped from a facility located in another state. Just like in the case of consumer two a bunch of the money heads overseas but real disaster for the community is absolutely none of the money stays there. This sets the area up for a new wave of store closings, prolonged unemployment, and declining real estate prices.

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Open thread all discussions are welcome.
My participation will be limited today. I may not be responding until this evening or tomorrow.

edited - grammer

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In a parallel universe, social unrest is harshly dealt with...

zunzi-officers-img.jpg

“Two police officers are injured,” 2014. In this prescient piece, Zunzi pointed out the power disparity between the police and protesters. (Zunzi)

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Lookout's picture

A pleasant cool one (66) here. Already picked blueberries and dealt with jap beetles in the soapy bucket. Finally got neem oil yesterday to start spraying today.

How Oil Drives The South China Sea Conflict
more here: https://www.globalpolicyjournal.com/blog/07/08/2018/oil-history-and-sout...

It is so odd to me how oil drives war as burning oil leads to our extinction. The epitome of insanity.

5 excellent minutes on today's wars from Maj Danny Sjursen

The entire piece is good but this 5 min is insightful - the empire's wars has come home.
More from Danny on our use of mercenaries...
https://original.antiwar.com/danny_sjursen/2020/06/23/the-new-american-m...

Let's hope the empire collapses before we start a China war. Already we're urging India to get one going. Ironic that Russia is trying to mediate -

The border clash between India and China on June 15, which left dozens of Chinese and Indian military personnel dead, has significantly heightened international tensions. While the US has aggressively intervened on the side of India, Russia sees the clash as a major challenge to its geo-strategy and has been heavily involved in trying negotiate a resolution to the conflict.
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India, especially under Prime Minister Narendra Modi, has been fully integrated into the war drive by US imperialism against China. India has undertaken major military purchases from the US, including very advanced military technology that the US only sells to its closest allies, and the countries undertake a large number of joint military exercises. Under Modi, New Delhi has also made its military bases available to US warships and warplanes.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/06/23/russ-j23.html

Well have a good day everyone, and let's hope we don't start WW3!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

studentofearth's picture

@Lookout has a whole new meaning after listening to Maj. Sjursen. The fight is between ordinary people trying to live out a lifetime within their communities and the Empire. The Empire has shifted over the centuries. The goal of extracting wealth and sending it to the top tier remains the same. If all the nations throw us out all those tactics come to our homes and communities.

Good luck on tackling those jap beetles. Hoping our cold nights keep those insects out of my garden.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

enhydra lutris's picture

"War is the continuation of politics by other means."

(Vom Kriege, published posthumously in 1832.) Though his analysis of the military side of war was based heavily on Frederick the Great and Napoleon Bonaparte, he was born shortly after the "American" Revolution and lived beyond the "War of 1812". He was an astute observer and analyst. Though he had certain cultural prejudices and preferences, and vaguely Hegelian in his formalisms, he cannot have been unaware of the implication of that continuum that Diplomacy is simply War carried on by other means, perhaps a mere prelude to armed conflict.

He was certainly acquainted with Thomas (

life is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short

) Hobbes and his declaration that the natural condition of man is

a condition of war of everyone against everyone

. For Hobbes, the way out was the social compact.

It's been ages since I read either of them, but the US has been at war for its entire existence, not merely foreign wars, but wars against the indigenous people of the territory it was conquering, wars against renegade enslaved persons, wars against labor organizers and their organizations and others. War is our natural state of being to the extent that it is how we organize against anything, hence the War on Poverty and manifold other similar "wars" on various diseases, crime, drugs, litter, etc. ad infinitum. Our history, right through today, and perhaps more obviously then ever today makes it clear that for the US, diplomacy and politics (and trade and advertising and news releases and everything else that comes to mind) are truly WAR Carried Out by Other Means, a prelude to armed attack, which is made more clear by the incessant threats and saber rattling embedded in it.

China is simply the latest example, not that the war on China is new, but merely that it is now "news". It is fundamental to understanding the US that we acknowledge and become truly viscerally aware that the US had never extended any of the benefits, burdens, privileges and concepts of the "social contract" to foreign nations, persons and ethnic groups, and most certainly not to Asia or any Asian nation or ethnic group. It is now possible to convey that to a wider portion of the populace insofar as some are starting to understand that the social contract is broken here at home, within the US. WE need to utilize that growing awareness to work to block yet another hot war, anywhere, and especially with China. Part of that could be through efforts to limit and restrict all of the wars here at home upon our own people. I put understand in italics above, because what they are beginning to understand is only a partial truth. The real, sorry-assed truth is that there has never been a social contract here in the US except a limited one between and among the oligarchs and elites. There has never been one that TPTB have been willing to extend to we the hoi polloi and that truth has to be fully and widely understood as a societal and "political" fundamental basic truth if we are going to really bring about any lasting changes for the better in this country.

be well and have a good one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

studentofearth's picture

@enhydra lutris Oregon Territory (Washington, Idaho and Oregon) and China in about the same time period to conquer the lands and people for God. The Native Americans were quickly conquered with techniques perfected in the Northeastern and Southeastern tribes. The Chinese nation is still fighting against Western expansion and control of their lands. The path has taken many twists and turns. Religion, trade, military, education, diplomacy, political coups and business expansion have all been used to varying degrees at different times. It is a fascinating ongoing story.

Thanks for expanding your thoughts on the topic.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

I stumbled onto this video and it offered a good background as to the monies involved depending on who wins the 5g wars. The guy is a "venture businessman"--I have not watched his other videos but seems he might be on the right but looks to avoid some of those issues.

Huawei Ban Explained

In terms of Huawei and China, it seems more an economic war which given the stakes, probably has turned very ugly in ways we don't see yet. BTW same is happening with Russia. Nothing to do with election interference, but an economic war to mainly stop Russia from selling energy to Europe and instead using US energy sources.

But pushed too far, I can see the conflicts going hot.

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studentofearth's picture

@MrWebster important points.

Missed this on Thursday.

China's Huawei Technologies [HWT.UL] said on Thursday it had received planning permission for a 1 billion pound ($1.2 billion) research and development facility in England.

Rural America has been heavily invested in using Huawei equipment to provide internet and cell phone services.

Viaero is among 60 or more telecom operators swept up in a directive by the Federal Communications Commission to remove components produced by Huawei, which the U.S. government alleges could be spying on behalf of Beijing. U.S. officials have long been suspicious of Huawei, encouraging telecom giants such as AT&T Inc. and Verizon Communications Inc. to avoid using gear from the Shenzhen-based company. But smaller carriers turned to its low-cost, reliable products to help them roll out networks in underserved regions. That became a problem after the Trump administration launched a global campaign to persuade U.S. allies to block Huawei from their 5G mobile networks—part of an intensifying trade and economic rivalry.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

@studentofearth The government is forcing them to change equpitment but will not help with the costs effectively local market carriers. Makes me speculate that outside the US and EU, Huawei will dominate as they can offer much lower cost equiptment.

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magiamma's picture

And fires. And methane.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/world/europe/siberia-heat-wave-climat...

Afternoon all.

Thanks for video. I want to watch the whole thing now.

Take good care and have a good one.

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Stop Climate Change Silence - Start the Conversation

Hot Air Website, Twitter, Facebook

studentofearth's picture

@magiamma does not bode well for minimizing earth's heating up past a critical point. A feedback loop by the earth's climate control will not prioritize human life and comfort. I guess it is one day at a time.

Thanks for stopping by.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.