Open Thread 2-2-17: I remember Buddy but memory is an odd thing

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Well, tonight is the anniversary of the last Buddy Holly show. This was 58 years ago. Had Buddy arrived safely in Minnesota and eaten healthy foods he'd be 80 now. The Big Bopper would be 86, Ritchie Valens 75. I wonder, if they were still alive, or if they had lived out their lives to be older men, how they'd be remembered. I think Buddy would have had a huge resurgence in popularity, don't know about the other two.

I had a little conversation with my Facebook "friend", Jesse Colin Young, about Valens. I'd seen the Youngbloods many years ago and they'd done "Donna". Jesse was as much of a fan of Ritchie as I am of Jesse. Needless to say Jesse and I aren't really friends but I was pleased to see him reply to my comment in such a way.

When we think of Buddy, Ritchie and the Bopper they're frozen in time in their youth. It's a similar phenomenon to leaving a place or a person. My folks moved us from Queens to New Jersey when I was 10. I remember very clearly my Little League team from Queens. A few years back I sent email to a couple of the guys from that team and they didn't remember it all that well. My theory is that it was a point on a continuous line for them, where they were 9 years old, then 10, then 11, etc. until they were 18 and left high school and went their separate ways while, for me, the thing stopped cold, freezing the last event in my mind.

We remember the Beatles as the group we heard in the early 60s which stopped after Abbey Road while we have to work a little bit to distinguish the Brian Jones-led Rolling Stones from the old geezers who travel around now. It sometimes feels like there are two Keith Richards, the young and the Dorian Gray portrait that currently performs. But those Beatles...still the boys, the lads.

Thinking about Buddy Holly, we can play the game "what would he have done?" Maybe he'd have been in the Wilburys or something like it. Maybe he would have gotten terrible. There's a group I like from the 60s, called the Gants. Somehow Mississippi put up with them. They were a rocking group! Well the main guy, Sid Herring, is still doing music but it's not my thing at all. Maybe Buddy would have gone too far into Bobby Darin style night clubbery. Maybe he would have gone country. We don't know. We can make up anything based on what he did up to the night of Feb. 2, 1959.

So I've got two things I'm considering here. One is commemorating my idol, Buddy Holly, the other is wondering how memory works, how it prioritizes events. That second thing also gets me thinking about each person's most important moments. Sometimes we don't recognize them as such when they occur. Well, I'll end here on that note while I go off to see if I can find my ten high spots.

Early Buddy

Middle Buddy

Late Buddy...written by Bobby Darin so where would Buddy have gone after this?

Some Ritchie Valens

The Big Bopper

The Gants...and Sid Herring as I want to remember him

The Rolling Stones...as I want to remember them!

and especially this...

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on Buddy Holly's home tape recorder after he died, that person would see a growing sophistication in chord structure and melody and a growing emotional depth. Those are among my favorite Buddy songs.

I like the fact that many of Buddy's recordings are now available with the backing vocals erased and you hear pretty much what the songs were like when first recorded. I also like that both versions of That'll Be The Day and Maybe Baby are available.

I think Buddy would have taken even greater control over what got recorded and released and his music would have come to be recognized for the national treasure that it is.

It was Paul McCartney, in large part, that got Lubbock to formally recognize Buddy with a permanent memorial. Buddy was very big in the UK and his songs continued to chart for a number of years after the plane crash.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

gulfgal98's picture

Buddy Holly would have been an even bigger influence had he lived. Look at how much influence he still has today and he was only in his early 20's when he was killed in the horrible plane crash. Valens was even younger than Holly, so it is hard to tell how his influence would have been.

I actually saw the Stones play live at Jack Russell stadium in Clearwater, Fla. in 1965. I was an early Stones fan and paid for a ticket for a friend of mine because no one else wanted to go. Their set was cut short due to a group of fans rushing the stage. I was not one of those, but I was sitting nearly straight on from the stage about mid way up in the stands. Mick Jagger had enormous stage charisma and the fans were screaming. The article that I linked above said several local bands opened for them. The only band I remembered was The Impacs fronted at that time by Vic Waters. The Impacs at that time were a very high profile local band. Billy Joe Royal was supposed to front them but could not get out of his record contract, so they hired Vic Waters.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane, or what is left of it.

Edited to add a link.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

the Rolling Stones to contemplating how memory works.

There have been a few PBS programs about how the mind, including memory works, but, speaking of memory, I don't remember much of the content. I don't know if that says something about me or about the programs. However, I do remember that an event accompanied by strong emotion impresses itself on our memories. CDs of those shows may be available online.

I also remember something from Dr. Spock or some other alleged expert on child rearing to the effect that age 11 is a particularly bad time to change a boy's environment.

I will hazard a guess that you did not want to leave your Little League team and felt wrenched away from it when your family moved, a strong emotion that would have impressed your Little League team on your mind more than it was impressed on the minds of kids for whom it was simply the next thing to do in the process of growing up.

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mimi's picture

EXCLUSIVE: Trump's Supreme Court pick founded and led club called 'Fascism Forever' at his elite all-boys Washington prep school

Gorsuch founded the ‘Fascism Forever Club’ during his freshman year at Georgetown Preparatory, a now-$30,000-a-year private Jesuit school that is one of the most selective in the United States.
He served as president until he graduated in 1985, according to his senior yearbook.

Georgetown Prep brings up some very infuriating memories in me, I wonder now, if Georgetown Preps is proud to have a famous US Supreme Court Justice in their former student body. They use stuff like it to prove they are a good school. Oh well. I wished I hadn't read that article.

Good luck with your new Supreme Court Justice. He has all the credentials ...

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@mimi Many thanks for this - I doubt I would have seen it otherwise.
It's important because it'll be hard for Democrats to let this unqualified person pass without a fight.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

mimi's picture

@duckpin @duckpin @duckpin
You think? Unqualified? Graduates from those schools are considered qualified. I don't want to bash Jesuit schools. There are a couple of 'good private schools' in the DC area most rich and political folks send their kids to. They are all 'well prepped' and 'ready to go' in the direction up the (political and financial) Hill(s) and they all 'network starting age 12'.

I didn't realize Georgetown Prep was considered 'liberal' or 'left leaning'.

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@mimi In my view this relationship with a Young Fascist group is disqualifying.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

mimi's picture

@duckpin

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Lookout's picture

http://www.human-memory.net/

It seems that our memory is located not in one particular place in the brain, but is instead a brain-wide process in which several different areas of the brain act in conjunction with one another (sometimes referred to as distributed processing). For example, the simple act of riding a bike is actively and seamlessly reconstructed by the brain from many different areas: the memory of how to operate the bike comes from one area, the memory of how to get from here to the end of the block comes from another, the memory of biking safety rules from another, and that nervous feeling when a car veers dangerously close comes from still another. Each element of a memory (sights, sounds, words, emotions) is encoded in the same part of the brain that originally created that fragment (visual cortex, motor cortex, language area, etc), and recall of a memory effectively reactivates the neural patterns generated during the original encoding. Thus, a better image might be that of a complex web, in which the threads symbolize the various elements of a memory, that join at nodes or intersection points to form a whole rounded memory of a person, object or event. This kind of distributed memory ensures that even if part of the brain is damaged, some parts of an experience may still remain. Neurologists are only beginning to understand how the parts are reassembled into a coherent whole.

I appreciate Buddy Holly, but must admit I don't sing any of his songs (although I've played along on a few of them).

I have been doing this one of late... Sometimes called "Hey Buddy can you spare a dime" [video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHD28SsJfXk]

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

in the years that didn't come for him.

I see everything from megastar Rock Operas, to twangy surf albums, to Muddy Waters Blues collaborations, to psychedelia laden concept albums, to duets with Carole King while Dave Brubeck sits in on keys, etc. etc.

The guy was a true prodigy, which makes it all the more tragic that his genius never had the opportunity to develop in ways we can now only guess at.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

Redstella's picture

I found this at the automatic earth, which has now become, as I mentioned in another comment, my reliable source. This explains in such an elegant manner what my thoughts are today. Protests, fine, but where were we when the damage was being done. I was in my cosy life, how about you?

https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2017/02/unrest-is-the-only-growth-indu...

Looks like we have to strap ourselves in and ride out the chaos coming at us. And continue to mourn Bernie...sigh.

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Arrow's picture

I had to.

You see them on the news from all over the world. Mothers,grandparents,sons and daughters holding the pictures up in protest and a demand for justice. How could I not join them?

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I want a Pony!

Mark from Queens's picture

Hopkins sang.

My Little League memories sparkle inside a kaleidoscope of AM radio hits in the car, with my cotton baggy uniform on mimicking the Majors and all the colorful school kids from my neighborhood and nearby who were stars in our world.

Then adolescence hit and some of the better players went on to play together in the "traveling league." There, on the bench while we were up, we turned our attention to the hard rock bands of the day and which albums we had and shared our appraisals. When music wasn't dominating the talk we teenagers did a lot of regaling each other about smoking pot, chicks and oh yeah, kicking the other team's ass, which we did a lot of. We'd sleep over each other's houses and all the families were friendly with and supportive of each other.

Ah man, great days I could write about forever...

To tie up those two early loves there was a moment in my mid-late 20's, far removed from those halcyon days, when I was rehearsing with a band in Soho before it was overrun with boutique shopping, that brought it back into focus, while ironically being in a whole other world.

I was staying at the guitar player’s apartment occasionally and got an excited call from my parents saying that B, the catcher on my team of those days, is playing at Yankee Stadium right now for the Seattle Mariners, and just hit a ball to left center and stretched it out for a double! On the other end, I’m standing with shoulder length hair with a couple of natural dreads sprouting because I haven’t taken a comb to it in years, looking at the guitar player whose hair is dyed 2 or 3 different colors and loved to trip on mushrooms, and a few other downtown stragglers lazing on the couch. The bass player is "homeless," surfing from one girl's couch to another carrying not much else beside a book and a toothbrush, and the singer is a pretty boy given to episodes of self-mutiliation. But at that moment I’m completely transported away from that grungy rock scene of the Lower East Side back to the reverie and camaraderie of that scrappy team of punky suburban kids on the ball fields of Long Island - and my heart just soars.

I had lost touch with B when we all went away to college and many of us, including me, stopped playing ball, while he went on to play both football and baseball at a major college in the South. But I can remember clearly the many times on the field and hanging out at his or my house for sleepovers or going to a concert. He was such a standout catcher, a field general, fierce competitor. Many times I was on the receiving end of his rocket arm to make a sweeping tag coming in from the shortstop position to nail a guy trying to steal a base. We rode bikes together all over his or my town, and after midnight snuck out my window to grab a feel from the neighborhood hussy. He wanted to learn how to play drums so I showed him some beats and maybe how to play a simple Cars song. We went to see Rush together and to this day I think the bowl of weed we gleefully accepted from the older dude next to us was laced; I was in a slightly trippy state until the next day and after the show blissfully unaware of the snow cone melting all over my concert shirt, making the others laugh.

I haven’t seen him since then, when we were rollicking around together on the ball fields of our youth and in the exploration and mischief of our adolescence.

Years later I got the chance to tour with a pretty big named star. Like B, I too got to play in a few, similar hallowed places, when I got to take the stage at Radio City Music Hall and Red Rocks.

It gives me no unending pleasure and pride to think of those two boys together, with dreams of baseball and rock n roll, Summer brothers with a lust for life, who actually got to feel what it's like to live out their dreams for a moment.

Man, that was something.

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Shahryar's picture

@Mark from Queens the Little League days, the Beatlemania days, the high school soccer team days, college, meeting shaz, seeing her walk down the street pulling her laundry in a little red wagon, then the LA days...and so on. I'm sure today and tomorrow and the next day and all will be those days too.

Looking back compresses the events into something solid, I guess. Meanwhile I'm wondering who B might be. Don't tell me! I'll figure it out. Smile

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mimi's picture

I don't see what this is good for. Time is over to persuade Fox folks with reasonable arguments. Disappointed. He should not co-operate with Hannity-style media, imo. Enough is enough.
[video:https://youtu.be/L6Z_gFfgi5s]

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