One Law for Thee, and Another for Me - Comey actually said it out loud: if Clinton had been someone else, his decision would likely have been different

So the Clinton machine is out in full force, claiming that the FBI found Clinton to be innocent. They like to boil everything down to a simple case of guilty or "hogwash"; spinning the truth is what they do. Their claims are lies, of course. Comey did not find Clinton to be innocent; no, what he actually did was find America's system of Justice to be guilty. Let me repeat that: Comey actually pronounced America's system of Justice to have a deeply engrained double-standard that allows the elite class to escape prosecution, and because of that double-standard, "no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case" against Clinton. Comey spoke with a straight face, without any hint of awkwardness or hesitation; his words had been crafted so carefully that most of us didn't even realize the meaning of what he was actually saying: "Yes Virginia, some 'men' are above the law." And in a huge win for feminism, I guess, the very first 'man' who was ever shown to be above the law was actually a woman. Hillary Clinton, you go girl!

Clinton is not innocent. Comey and the FBI found Clinton and her aides to have been “extremely careless” when handling classified information. Holy Private Key Batman! Extremely careless with classified information. That there is one serious black mark that is now and forever part of Clinton's permanent record. And if Madame Secretary manages to become Madame President, in an age where the top foreign policy risk to our country is deemed to be terrorism, she will reign in an administration for which the intelligence community has utter contempt. Clinton operated in a way that shows very little understanding or respect for the work that they do. She has rendered obsolete work that has most likely taken years and years to accomplish, and as a result, significantly added to their workload. One might even say she has made our country "less safe". Some (and by some, I actually mean many if not most) in that community are a tad peeved by her actions.

NSA Whistleblower: Clinton Emails Damaged U.S. National Security Much More than Manning, Assange Or Any Other Whistleblower

But the highest-level NSA whistleblower in history, William Binney – the NSA executive who created the agency’s mass surveillance program for digital information, who served as the senior technical director within the agency, who managed six thousand NSA employees, the 36-year NSA veteran widely regarded as a “legend” within the agency and the NSA's best-ever analyst and code-breaker, who mapped out the Soviet command-and-control structure before anyone else knew how, and so predicted Soviet invasions before they happened ... explains why Comey's statement is nonsense.

By way of background, recall that – when the American press reported that U.S. intelligence services tracked Bin Laden through his satellite phone – he stopping using that type of phone … so we could no longer easily track him.

This is exactly what government officials mean whenever they say that someone – say Edward Snowden, Wikileaks’ Julian Assange, or Chelsea (formerly Bradley) Manning – is threatening national security by “revealing confidential information-gathering methods or sources.”

I want to pause for a moment and check to make sure that we are all on the same page. What is being said here? Which is worse?

  1. A certain important factoid is shared with the enemy
  2. The enemy learns that their "information-gathering methods or sources” have been compromised.

Isn't option 2 the correct answer? The most damage is caused when the enemy learns that their "information-gathering methods or sources” have been compromised. And that makes sense, right? Doesn't option 2 affect a huge number of factoids, instead of just one or two? Ok, let's continue ...

Binney explained to Washington’s Blog the serious nature of Clinton’s breach of GAMMA classified information:

The compromise of this kind of cryptology success has a number of impacts on the ability of NSA to produce accurate intelligence on foreign targets of highest interest.

(1) This lets the leaders of a foreign country know that their communications have been compromised and that we read what they are saying, planning and intending to do.

(2) It compromises the fact that a particular type of encryption is readable. Not just the leadership; but, also all the others in that country and around the world that are using that encryption. [...]

(4) If other countries (like Russia or China or any others) know the encryption system involved, then they too will look at it for any weakness or flaws that would allow reading the system. [...]

(6) This presents the country using that system the opportunity to feed false information into the intelligence produced by NSA which means the free world.

(7) For NSA, this means that they have to find other ways to validate any intelligence they get from this encryption to insure the validity of the information they get.

Takeaways:

  • Discussing classified information on unclassified channels allows hostile players to "know what we know" about them. As a result, they will change their plays so as to better defend themselves. Discussing classified information on unclassified channels is a bad idea, in fact it is such a fucking bad idea that laws have been passed to make such activity "subject to sanctions". For us working shmucks, that is.
  • Hostiles won't use the old channels any more. All the previous work (perhaps even lives lost?) that went into discovering how to tap into the old communication channels used by hostiles has been rendered obsolete. Hostiles may continue to use the old channels in an attempt to spread misinformation. Anything that comes across old channels now still needs to be checked, but with an extra dimension (i.e. "they know that we know what they are saying, so why are they saying it?")
  • Hostiles will attempt to use new channels; hence a giant task has now been added to the intelligence community's ToDo list.

Ex-special ops group blasts Clinton email decision

A group of former special operations forces and CIA officials critical of the Obama administration blasted the FBI's announcement earlier this week that it would not recommend charges against Hillary Clinton over her private email server.

The president of the group, known as OPSEC, expressed disappointment with FBI Director James Comey's conclusion that despite Clinton and her colleagues being "extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information," there was no evidence of criminal wrongdoing.

"I had a great deal of respect for Director Comey. This is not what I expected. I don't feel that justice was done," said OPSEC's Jamie Williamson, a retired member of U.S. Army Special Forces.

"I know if I had done a fraction of the things that Mrs. Clinton did, we wouldn't be talking now because I would be sitting in jail many months ago," he told The Hill.

SLOW DOWN PLEASE ... WHAT DID COMEY SAY, EXACTLY?

Comey made it a point to say that if the exact same case had been brought before the FBI involving a different person, the outcome would likely been different.

To be clear, this is not to suggest that in similar circumstances, a person who engaged in this activity would face no consequences. To the contrary, those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions. But that is not what we are deciding now.

Let's look at it in slow motion:

In similar circumstances

a person who engaged in this activity

[is] often subject to security or administrative sanctions.

What do these words mean?. Don't they say: if the person was not Hillary Clinton, if the person was Steve or Jose or Juan or somebody else, then the consequences would been different for the exact same actions.

In other words, a different "punishment" would have been handed down for the exact same "crime".

If the person was Steve or Jose or Juan or you or me, they most likely would have been “subject to security or administrative sanctions” for doing exactly what Hillary did. Such sanctions might include losing one’s security clearance, paying a fine, and being placed on leave or terminated. But the person in this case is Hillary Clinton, and for that reason

that is not what we are deciding now.

Listen to Comey’s words once more in the following short (17 second) clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZIrCQuMU7A
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZIrCQuMU7A]

Hillary got a different kind of Justice than Steve or Jose or Juan or you and I would receive. She got a kinder, gentler form of Justice. And that in itself is tremendously wrong. Not because she was treated with kindness, but because America’s laws are supposed to be the same for all of us, regardless of shape, color, or size. The same yardstick is supposed be used for every single citizen. That's how the myth goes, right? If Hillary’s lack of intent results in no indictment for Hillary, then Juan’s lack of intent should result in no indictment for Juan. According to John V. Berry, such is not the case. Berry is a lawyer who specializes in security clearances; his opinion is that Hillary Clinton got off easy:

My legal practice involves representing clients denied or at risk of losing their security clearances. Facing the same set of facts outlined by FBI Director James B. Comey about Hillary Clinton and her aides, my less-well-known clients — whether an entry-level government contractor or a GS-14 federal employee — would be in serious jeopardy of losing their security clearances. In fact, I cannot foresee a situation in which an ordinary employee facing such allegations would be able to keep a security clearance with the types of concerns raised in the FBI findings. [...]

Clinton’s use of a personal server for classified government email, without appropriate approvals and security, would normally be treated as a serious security violation. Another security violation would be the storage and transmission of classified materials using personal (nongovernmental) means off site. Everyone involved in the setting up of the server, the transmission or storage of such information or knowledge of same would have had separate security obligations to follow regarding the rules for protecting classified information. Finally, providing classified information to defense lawyers who are not cleared to review such documents (as was alleged to have occurred) could also constitute a security violation for a regular employee.

According to Berry, lack of intent to cause harm is not a factor that weighs heavily in the outcome of many cases:

Consider the government contractor who comes to my office to see me based on allegations that she accidentally took home a personal hard drive containing low-level classified information. Even if the information at issue was not important, it is not uncommon for such an individual to lose her security clearance, be placed on leave and then terminated. This outcome varies, based on the facts of an individual case, but the risk is significant. Other common clearance cases involve government contractors or federal employees who accidentally email classified information to their homes and then face the serious risk of losing their security clearances.

What our entire country has just witnessed with Clinton's case is that there are in fact two sets of laws in this country: one for the rich and powerful, and another for the rest of us. Which some of us have suspected for quite a long time, but with Comey's statement we have actual evidence of it.

FBI's Clinton decision proves rules don't apply to rich and powerful

As I sat in my law office watching CNN's coverage of FBI Director James Comey's statement, where he outlined his department's much-awaited decision regarding the Hillary Clinton email scandal and all but concluded that Clinton had broken the law but would not be indicted, his words merely confirmed what I have always known as a former prosecutor and a current criminal defense attorney: Our nation maintains a separate and unequal criminal justice system that is stratified according to wealth and power.

Again, Comey did not find Clinton to be innocent! No, he actually pronounced America's system of Justice to have a deeply engrained double-standard that allows the elite class to escape prosecution, and because of that double-standard, "no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case" against Clinton.

"Yes Virginia, some 'men' are above the law." And some women too.

And that is why we fucking need Bernie Sanders to become president. Because FUCK THIS SHIT!

Additional Reading

FBI Director James Comey Just Explained Why America Doesn’t Prosecute The Rich And Powerful

The Rich Are Different From You and Me: They Don’t Care About Jobs and Their Money Buys Politicians

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darkmatter's picture

is more than cognitive dissonance. It is cognitive whiplash.

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Older and Wiser Now's picture

Not only did they let Clinton walk, they also wanted to send a very clear message that if others "tried to do it at home," they would most likely have the book thrown at them.

Nice.

And most of us have been caught like a deer in the headlights, saying to ourselves "WTF just happened?"

We really need to push back - It is crucial that people believe that laws are just. Otherwise, the system will break down right in front of our eyes ...

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~OaWN

TheOtherMaven's picture

Dallas is an early indicator of just that. One law for the .01% and their enforcer goons; another for the rest of us - and disrespect for, if not outright rejection of, the law is a real threat.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

divineorder's picture

has been going on in this country for many years.

HRC and her campaign should be faced with the truth at every opportunity.

Like this, por emplo:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/07/05/reasonable-indict/86731...

I would indict Hillary Clinton: Opposing view
Matthew Whitaker

7:45 p.m. EDT July 5, 2016

FBI director's judgment was that 'no reasonable prosecutor' would bring the case. I disagree.

Yet, Director Comey’s judgment was that “no reasonable prosecutor” would bring the case. I disagree. I believe myself to have been a reasonable prosecutor, and when the facts and evidence show a criminal violation has been committed, the individuals involved should not dictate whether the case is prosecuted.

One statute that Secretary Clinton could be charged with violating is 18 U.S.C. section 793(f). Under this section, a prosecutor must prove that:

•The person had lawful possession of information relating to national defense.

•Through gross negligence that person permits that information to be removed from its proper place of custody (or given to someone else, or lost, or stolen).

Although it might be intuitive that a secretary of State lawfully possess information that relates to national defense, the facts laid out by Director Comey also establish that this is exactly the type of information in this case.
SNIP

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

snoopydawg's picture

The real reason why she set it up that way, imo, was so that people from the Clinton foundation could also have access to it. Huma Abedin said in her deposition with JW that Chelsea Clinton also had access to their email server. Chelsea wasn't a state department employee, so why did she get to have access to it?
As always, follow the money.
Plus, Sidney Bluementhal also had access to the server and we know that he was being paid $200 thousand a year while working at the foundation.
It's the Clinton foundation that should bring down all of the Clintons, but who is going to go after them?

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

that her security breaches were deliberate.

The Clintons have security down so pat for themselves, they've been called paranoid.

So there's your intent.

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elenacarlena's picture

maybe not... https://www.google.com/search?q=afford+a+vet&cad=b&biw=1093&bih=495&dpr=...

What the heck does "no comment" mean? Why not just say yes or no?

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

The Clinton Foundation is getting a new coat of whitewash.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Older and Wiser Now's picture

machine. That is a fabulous point. I recall that Huma had an email, makes sense that Chelsea also did too.

Now I"m thinking about an IT phrase "walled garden", the concept of which seems very relevant. All the State Dept folks should be playing in their own garden, and nobody else. Clinton created her own garden of primarily Foundation folks, but then brought State Dept info into that garden. Not a good idea at all.

Thank you for your kind words, too. This essay started as a comment over on TOP, then I realized it had gotten long and I should probably make it an essay instead. Then it got even longer, lol, and I really started getting into it, and now I'm hoping that it gets read widely. I think I might have connected certain dots that many folks would have connected themselves, only more slowly.

P.S. SnoopyDawg this was for you of course, I hope you see it here. OT, but I'm starting to hate the UI here, it is too easy to add a new comment when you meant to reply to the last one.

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~OaWN

snoopydawg's picture

According to this article, Bluementhal somehow got top secret classified information from 4 NSA reports and sent them to Hillary from the Sudan.
I knew he was sending information from Libya to her.
Obama told her to keep him out of the state department, so she hired him as an information specialist in her foundation instead.
Was Obama aware of this and if he was, why didn't he shut this down?
Do the Clintons have something on him or did he just not give a good god damn about anything Hillary did?
He also told her to keep the foundation separate from her duties as SOS and she agreed to do so.
Now we know she didn't keep that promise either
Read this article
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-07/nsa-whistleblower-clinton-email...

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Older and Wiser Now's picture

He seems to have let her go away with so much.

And yet, now that I think about it, especially when he was brand-new at being Prez, it must have been rather daunting to be "supervising" the work of HRC.

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~OaWN

riverlover's picture

recall that there WAS no IG at State Department for four years of Clinton, too much trouble for Obama to select one until she had left. Does that smell like collusion, to have no oversight that might have come from an IG, and did, after she was pre-employed at running for POTUS herself?

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Older and Wiser Now's picture

Putting that into a picture, one gets this:

Comparison of Secretaries of State since 1997

Thank you for the opportunity to share this image once again.

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~OaWN

snoopydawg's picture

After the earthquake and how anyone who wanted in on the reconstruction had to go through the foundation first. And how much the state department was also involved.
The Clintons made Haiti their private playground.
https://theruggedindividualist.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/another-blemish-...

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Older and Wiser Now's picture

That is so disappointing. And you wrote that in 2014 - I don't know that I've heard Haiti mentioned even once in 2016 ...
Sigh.

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~OaWN

snoopydawg's picture

I read sites such as counterpunch, truthdig, truthout and the sites that joe provides linked to articles.
The many skeletons in the Clinton's closets should have put them in prisons years or decades ago.
They have been playing in Honduras's political arena since 2001 and in so many other countries.
Plus, they provide their friends access to governments after they make a donation to the foundation.
IIRC, only 10 percent of the money actually goes to charity. They spend a lot of it on travel and hotels.

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divineorder's picture

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

about the perjury I haven't seen anything new.She clearly lied to congress more than once or will this be swept under the rug too. I find it hard to believe the repugs will let this go.

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WindDancer13's picture

I am still trying to decide if that is on purpose. Yes, they want to damage the Clintons, but they do not want to damage the elite system. The fact that there is a bunch of stories out now about documents being over-classified shows that they are trying to bury this rather than be transparent. We the People should demand that those email chains be released to the public if they really aren't that important.

WHY did she not know that information was classified? What was standard procedure for receiving classified materials? Was everything hand delivered to her desk? How much classified material did she handle over the course of four years? How would she not recognize that an email contained classified material? WHY was no one aware of what was happening in Benghazi? This was the Department she ran. She was in charge. Why wasn't Blumenthal questioned during the first FBI investigation? See lots of questions. But the Repubs will probably not ask any of them.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Older and Wiser Now's picture

That came up during Comey's questioning by Congress. If they are not asked specifically to investigate some matter, they do not investigate that matter. And for this last investigation, the referral was concerned about security.

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~OaWN

sojourns's picture

"no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case"

Reasonable (but inept) prosecutor being a prosecutor that understands that it would be near impossible to assemble a grand jury that would convict. Especially if forked tongue Hillary took the stand.

Shitty, Comey. Just shitty.

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

First of all, thank you so much for this essay and all of the links therein and in the comments.
I want to address one thing: "reasonable prosecutor".
Please note I practice law in state court (Texas), not federal, but the systems are based upon the same framework. Police do an investigation. They submit their files to a prosecutor's office for an "intake" examination as to prosecute, or ditch. The police might make a recommendation of a particular crime for prosecution, or might offer it with a recommendation of no prosecution.
An example might be a car wreck with a fatality. An investigation cannot determine if the driver was intoxicated, so no recommendation of indictment of manslaughter. However, the "reasonable prosecutor" might see something in that report that indicates a lesser included offense, and can proceed on that.
Comey is a cop, not a prosecutor, and he didn't hand over the files to a "reasonable prosecutor" to examine. He superimposed his idea of what a "reasonable prosecutor" might do with his file.
And he did so after Lynch's public announcement that she would go along with whatever the fbi decided, that her "reasonable prosecutors" would all play ball.
After her visit with Bill on the tarmac.
The system simply does not work this way for anybody other than Hillary Clinton. This is not how it works for our notion of justice.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

snoopydawg's picture

How could he know what a reasonable prosecutor would do if they hadn't seen the files?
As you wrote, his job was to collect the evidence and turn that over the Lynch.
He said enough that shows that there is enough evidence to prosecute her, but I believe that he was being leaned on to not recommend prosecution and that's why he said all those other things about her.
Especially the part that if any one else does what Hillary did then they would be prosecuted. That's the tell for me.
And Obama campaigning with her on the same day that the report came out leaves me to believe that it was Obama who was doing the leaning on him.
Remember months earlier, Obama said that she had done nothing wrong, but the investigation hadn't concluded yet so how would he know that?

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mimi's picture

to "manage" him to their advantage? I don't get it. I don't understand Obama. What is he afraid of? I mean, he is too intelligent to act like that just out of pure "kindness" towards the Clintons, what is it that makes him act without "logic"? It's so disappointing.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

I want to pause for a moment and check to make sure that we are all on the same page. What is being said here? Which is worse?

A certain important factoid is shared with the enemy
The enemy learns that their "information-gathering methods or sources” have been compromised.

...than Intentional dissemination.

When classified information is intentionally released, it is much easier to asses the damage, because you can determine. among other things, who received it, what was received, and the duration of the release.

When classified information is simply wafted out onto the Internet with a practically hallucinogenic disregard for even the most basic security procedures, there is no way of knowing any of that.

Basically, we have no idea who got what.

What also makes Hillary's behavior far worse (securitywise) than Manning or Snowden or Assange is that with a public release the information is out there for everyone to see - no country has a distinct advantage.

With Hillary's release, we don't know who has the information and who doesn't, so all negotiations with both allies and enemies take on an extra level of complexity and guesswork - all to our greater disadvantage.

Heck, Comey can't even verify a hack took place, although he says its 'possible'. He says that to somehow diminish the impact of Hillary's crime. But that's a lot worse than actually confirming it was hacked, since then there would be the possibility of a forensic trail.

Comey is clueless about the reasons gross negligence was built into the statute. He treats is as a lesser offense to intentional release, when actually it is a far greater one.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

TheOtherMaven's picture

and hoo boy how many cans of really stinky worms that opens!

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

she deleted before turning over the rest to the Feds.

Ironic isn't it? The only security people who don't know what was in those deleted emails are our own.

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reflectionsv37's picture

Very good point!! Maybe we could beg Russia, China and Iran to give us a copy.

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“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

that between now and November, Vlad and his pals are going to be releasing a LOT of those emails.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

Surely he would rather deal with Clinton than trump. Clinton is known dirty. She can be had. She has no respect for America, the American government, or the American people. Trump is an unknown loose cannon.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

As SoS, she helped start wars in Libya, Syria, and Yemen, fomented a coup in Honduras, installed a radical Islamist government in Egypt, and ratcheted up military tensions with China.

Closer to Russia, she set the stage for the violent overthrow of the Russia-friendly Ukrainian government, expanded NATO military presence further toward its borders, promoted missile defense in Poland and Romania, supported Erdogan's Islamicist government in Turkey, and used Western NGO's in Russia to try to undermine Putin's government.

I could go on, but you get my point.

And that was just as SoS. Imagine what Hillary, with her neo-con buddies, would do as President.

By contrast, Trump has said he wants to repair relations with Russia, work with Putin to eliminate the Islamicists, and reduce US presence in NATO.

So if you're Putin, who would you rather see as President?

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mimi's picture

playing some poker half-naked, amusing themselves and come up with shady deals that make them both "richer" but would save some lives with regards to not shoot and drop bombs on the wrong people.

Clinton could "die for a cause" before she would see that she "causes a lot of people to die" for her precious moralistic extreme view points. I don't think she could dis-entangle herself out of it.

Trump wouldn't care and just deflate his hot air and spit out some totally idiotic argument and make a deal that is the opposite from what he said the day before.

Both are loose cannons, but Clinton is a determined one to shoot in the one direction of her moralistic righteousness only, Trump may be the most amoral asshole in the world, but might just stop shooting all his disgusting hot air balloons and say "Hasta la Vista" you can play by yourself, Vladimir, and Vladimir just grins and will say: Alright, Trumpyman, I'll do.

I don't know how to express myself, but I see Clinton as the boneheaded, stubborn, extremely moralistic one and that is dangerous. Trump is an appalling idiot who uses the worst folks and their instincts to produce an atmosphere where any sort of vulgar, racial and tribal instincts in people's guts get used for his business / political power grabbing intentions. And so, behaving like he does becomes "business as usual", which is very dangerous as well, because, if you eliminate the "shame and guilt factor" of ordinary people over their racial and tribal instincts, the hell breaks loose. Many of the stuff that got said in recent weeks and month was said during the Weimar Republic. So, it's dangerous.

It would be great, if none of the two would be voted into power.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

Quite the opposite in fact.

She's certainly not any less adverse to stirring up racial animus when it suits her political purposes. Her 2008 primary campaign is clear proof of that.

Don't get me wrong: I don't want either of them either, but when it comes to a choice between someone who might one day be a war criminal in the future and someone who is an actual war criminal in the present, I'll take my chances on the future.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

mimi's picture

"moral" in connection with Hillary Clinton's arguments of her policies. She is moral in her own mind to herself, that doesn't mean she is moral to anybody else looking at her. May be I should have used quotation marks. Or a snark tag... I meant quite the opposite of what you read out of it and mention here in your comment. It's disturbing to me that my words can't be understood in a way I meant them. Just don't know how to express myself better.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

My mistake for misreading.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

mimi's picture

I have found most of the real dangerous extremists, developed in such personalities out of their own perceived moral consciousness and righteousness. That I believe is true among extreme leftist "revolutionaries" as well as extreme right-wing, so-to-speak religious motivated "moralists". May be that is the point where other people see it borderline to psychopathy. But I am hesitant to use the word like psychopath (as many have used here), because I don't understand and may be don't have much trust in the people who define that word.

I guess I am having a language problem here.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

I have found most of the real dangerous extremists, developed in such personalities out of their own perceived moral consciousness and righteousness.

The real goal is not truth seeking or creating a better world.

The real goal is attaining power through moral intimidation.

They perceive morality as a weakness, and seek to exploit that weakness by molding a well meaning person's morality to their own selfish ends.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

WindDancer13's picture

differently. Comey made a point to say that people she wrote to from her account were hacked. That suggests that she was an open door. Really, good hackers do not leave a trail. I forgot who said it, but the gist was that if foreign governments did NOT hack her that the person who was talking would be really surprised by the lack in their intelligence community.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

but if he explicitly admits it he explodes his whole reasoning for not enforcing the statute.

That's why he said 'possibly' rather than 'duh, of course'.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

WindDancer13's picture

She said the possibility of the server being hacked was mere "speculation" on the part of Comey. Her comments seemed to be directed at casting suspicion on Comey's credentials.

Meanwhile, he would have to show that the server had been hacked beyond a reasonable doubt, and that may have not been possible. All a defense attorney would have to do is create that smidgen of doubt and the case would blow up, which is exactly why I think Comey did not recommend an indictment. He could see from the interview that she would be able to create that doubt.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

for the statute to apply.

The publicly released emails to Blumenthal and others are conclusive proof of dissemination just on their own.

BUT.... if there is evidence of a hack, that goes to specific intent, because if she knows the server has been hacked and does nothing about it, she is intentionally leaving the door open to other hacks.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

reflectionsv37's picture

BUT.... if there is evidence of a hack, that goes to specific intent, because if she knows the server has been hacked and does nothing about it, she is intentionally leaving the door open to other hacks.

I wonder if this has something to do with the immunity deal and apparent gag order of Bryan Pagliano, the guy who setup and maintained her server. If anyone would know if the server was hacked, it would be Bryan Pagliano! Funny that there is not a single email anywhere to or from Bryan Pagliano even though he worked for the State Department for 4 years.

Does Pagliano know that Hillary's server was hacked? Could he have attempted to report the breach to someone in an email that no longer exists? There is something very suspicious about the lengths they are taking to keep Pagliano's role and knowledge in all of this from the public.

If that server was hacked, and it was known by Clinton or others in the department, and they then did nothing to change or rectify the problem? Whoa! That would add a whole new dimension to this travesty of justice. I really wonder if we'll ever find out what Pagliano knows?

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“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

I wonder if this has something to do with the immunity deal and apparent gag order of Bryan Pagliano, the guy who setup and maintained her server.

it has EVERYTHING to do with the immunity deal.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

Must certainly be assessing the damage as we speak. You know they aren't Hillaryites.

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My guide explained how she and everyone voted for the single candidates on the ballots with no hesitation. These people were selected by the party, so the citizens always voted for the persons because the party had carefully selected them, and the party knows best.
Compare and contrast.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Blasphemy101's picture

How are the Democrats not seeing the writing on the wall? It is obvious at this point. Oh well, when you lie down with Clintons, you are bound to get scandals.

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War, War Never Changes - Fallout Series

jwa13's picture

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When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.

elenacarlena's picture

Wink

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

elenacarlena's picture

"investigate the investigation" comments. If by some miracle she beats Trump, but still has a Repub Congress, there will be no "get things done," it will be all impeachment considerations all the time.

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

Good, nobody sane wants the things Clinton will do being done.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

elenacarlena's picture

Maybe if it finally gets through to them that she will be completely hindered in everything, they will consider voting for Bernie.

Please visit and rec our fundraising diary at TOP, Pets, Vets, and the People Who Need Them. Thank you!

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

WindDancer13's picture

how does this effect our foreign policy. All the governments now know that she cannot be trusted with classified materials (as do our secret service agencies), and they all know she lies big time (and even for no known reason). So govt's know she is careless and not to be trusted. How are we supposed to negotiate with anyone? Obviously, there won't be any negotiations with those she doe snot want to do so with...just bomb them. But we do have allies.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

lotlizard's picture

I'm not happy how it appears they boarded the must-stop-Trump train some time ago. Even — or especially — the supposedly left-leaning papers.

I think the truth of the present situation since 9/11 is too much of a hot potato for them as it threatens the image of the sacred post-war alliance with the global MIC comprising the U.S., NATO, and Israel.

The populist alt-right seems to have usurped the niche an anti-imperialist, non-Stalinist German left used to have — fearless criticism of the establishment and exposure of things the elite would prefer remained hidden from the public.

Even in the face of constantly being called conspiracy theorists, terrorist sympathizers, anti-American, anti-Semitic, etc.

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mimi's picture

The populist alt-right seems to have usurped the niche an anti-imperialist, non-Stalinist German left used to have — fearless criticism of the establishment and exposure of things the elite would prefer remained hidden from the public.

Thanks for your comment.

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jwa13's picture

The $hill just lost the general. WAY TO GO, DWS, and the DNC!! You brought (foisted on) us another weiner!

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When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.

moneysmith's picture

ABC poll shows 93% think she should be prosecuted. Ninety fucking three!! That's every sentient being in the country and then some. George W. Bush, at his worst, didn't have numbers like that. How the heck can she win an election after this?? The Dems are committing suicide nominating her.

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Hell is empty and all the devils are here. William Shakespeare

moneysmith's picture

it is here.

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Hell is empty and all the devils are here. William Shakespeare

WindDancer13's picture

Not the most reliable source.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

murphthesurf's picture

"She who shall not be named " will face impeachment immediately if She is to take office....
Unfortunately, I fear, that will trigger a greater war in the middle east as a distraction. ..look out Iran, sigh.

Peace -
Murph

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Older and Wiser Now's picture

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~OaWN

I know it's only a tiny bit of the bs Comey spewed, but Hillary's old servers were decommissioned? Really?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/decommissioned

Who uses the term "decommissioned" when they stop using a piece of personal equipment?
Sounds, oh, so governmental and official, doesn't it?

I hate it when I have to decommission my laptop, don't you? Then again, when I toss a laptop, it's not a federal crime.

The Bush crime family and the Clinton crime family. Is this really the best a nation of 324 million souls that invented a workable, modern republic can do?

smh

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reflectionsv37's picture

it gives one the impression that there was concern and thought put into how to dispose of those pieces of sophisticated hardware and the highly classified information that was contained on them. If has a much more concerned sound than the likely truth that they were simply tossed into a dumpster somewhere!

But Comey may have covered his tracks there too. He did state that they were "de-commissioned" in a variety of ways! One of which was probably in the dumpster, but that would be a little devastating to Hillary if he used the word dumpster. That would probably destroy his "intent" theory.

One of the questions I'd like an answer to is... How many of these fucking servers were there? Did everyone have one?

What I wouldn't give to sit down on an have a 3 hour, one on one, chat with Bryan Pagliano. Of course, I'd secretly video tape the whole thing!

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“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush

riverlover's picture

with a CD that was supposedly used by the military to overwrite all files (including OS) 5-6 times with enough gibberish to make anything unreadable. I think we physically broke the HD as well. And there was nothing, nothing involving any pron, state secrets, might have been some personal correspondence, physical printouts of which have been incinerated (burned).

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

WindDancer13's picture

they were "decommissioned." A server is nothing more than a high-end computer with specialized software. To go through several in four years suggests that there was something wrong (in more ways than one). I built my current two desktops over four years go. They are networked with my laptop and each other. Since then I have updated the memory in both, upgraded a couple of hard drives to ones with more capacity and updated tons of software (including moving from Windows XP to 7)...without losing any information. My computers get one hell of a lot more use than an average of 21 emails per day. So why would someone "decommission" a server? Did anyone ask that question? If so, I would like to know the answer.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

And already, to be all ready for the Bush-initiated corporate coup Hillary Clinton promoted around the world, with no protections to be allowed for any but involved billionaires and corporate interests - force-feeding the public with unlabelled unwanted and unsafe foods so that the right companies can profit to the maximum anticipated by them and establish global food monopolies, not to mention selling more petrochemical/GM pharma drugs for resultant illness/dysfunction:

https://www.organicconsumers.org/essays/organic-traitors-team-monsanto-a...

June 29, 2016
Organic Consumers Association
by Ronnie Cummins
Genetic Engineering
organic_traitors_website.png
Organic traitors Hirschberg and Robb

Editor's note: This article was written and first appeared before the Senate voted on July 7 to pass the Roberts-Stabenow GMO labeling bill. ...

... Despite the fact that GMO- and pesticide-contaminated foods are dangerous, despite the fact that at least 90 percent of American consumers want to know whether or not their food is genetically engineered, despite the fact that the now-enacted Vermont GMO labeling law is already forcing major food corporations (General Mills, Campbell’s, Kellogg’s, Danone, ConAgra, Pepsi, Frito-Lay, Coca-Cola, Mars, Hershey’s, Wonder Bread, Starbucks, and others) to either disclose GMO contamination in their products, or reformulate and remove GMOs, a self-selected group of so-called “organic leaders” and Clinton Democrats in the Senate have gone over to the DARK side.

The growing list of Organic Traitors includes the head of Whole Foods Market, Walter Robb; Gary Hirschberg, the CEO of Stonyfield Farm and the pseudo-pro GMO labeling group Just Label It; the Environmental Working Group, represented by Scott Faber, former head lobbyist for the pro-biotech Grocery Manufacturers Association; UNFI, the largest wholesaler of natural and organic foods; and the OTA, led by “natural” brands such as Smuckers and White Wave, and represented by their Board Chair Melissa Hughes from Organic Valley.

These self-selected “Good Food” and “Organic” leaders have been telling Congress behind closed doors—and now publicly—that they and the organic community will accept an industry-crafted DARK Act “compromise"—the Stabenow/Roberts bill— that eliminates mandatory GMO labeling and preempts the Vermont law with a convoluted and deceptive federal regime for QR codes and 1-800 numbers that is completely voluntary, with no firm guidelines for implementation, and no provisions whatsoever for enforcement. Perhaps even more outrageous, the legal definition of “bioengineered” foods under the new DARK Act means that 95 percent of the current GMO-tainted foods on the market, including foods made from Roundup-resistant and BT-spliced corn and soy, would never have to be identified.

Several of the Organic Traitors are now trying to avoid the ire of the organic community by pretending that they are not fully in favor of preempting the Vermont law with the Roberts/Stabenow DARK Act. Anger and resentment are mounting, with calls for companies to pull out of the OTA and renewed calls for boycotts of the Traitor Brands, who are also members of the GMA. ...

... In lobbying for the DARK Act, the OTA has employed the notorious Podesta Group (the same PR firm hired by Hilary Clinton and the Biotechnology Industry Association) to convince Senators to stab consumers in the back. ...

... In an even more outrageous lie, Stonyfield Yogurt chairman Gary Hirshberg, who is also founder of the bogus corporate organic front group, Just Label It, an organization that worked behind the scenes with USDA Secretary Tom Vilsack, former biotech Governor of the Year, is now telling the press:

We are pleased this proposal will finally create a national, mandatory GMO disclosure system, protects organic labels, and will cover more food than Vermont’s groundbreaking GMO labeling law.

Food Democracy Now goes on to say:

After years of using Just Label It as a corporate front group to undermine real grassroots campaigns and GMO labeling ballot initiatives and people like you, Gary Hirshberg and Just Label It are finally showing their true colors and working publicly to make it easier for corrupt Senators to vote for this toxic backroom deal that will undermine every American mother's basic right to know what's in the food they're feeding their children, like mothers in 64 other countries around the world already possess.

The bottom line is that the junk food “parent” companies of leading organic brands such as General Mills, Kellogg’s, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Danone, Smuckers, ConAgra, do not want GMO labeling, so they’ve instructed their underlings in the OTA to tell Congress (Republicans and Clinton Democrats alike) that it’s OK to kill the popular Vermont bill. Among the outrageous lies of the Organic Traitors is the claim that “25,000 more products” will be “labeled” under the DARK Act, when in fact, as even the FDA was forced to admit this week, almost no foods will have to be identified by a QR smart code or a 1-800 number, five years or so down the road, when the DARK Act finally gets implemented.

In other words, business as usual will prevail. Shut up and eat your Frankenfoods.

This is not just a battle over our right to know what’s in grocery store foods. Consumers want labels so that we can avoid buying GMO and pesticide-tainted foods. Period. We need labels, like the European Union, so we can put an end to our suicidal “business-as-usual” industrial food system and regenerate public health, soil health and climate stability.

Millions of health-minded Americans, especially parents of young children, now understand that cheap, non-organic, genetically engineered, industrial food is hazardous. Not only does chemical- and energy-intensive industrial ag/factory farming destroy the environment, destabilize the climate, impoverish rural communities, exploit farm workers, inflict unnecessary cruelty on farm animals, and contaminate the water supply, but the end product itself is inevitably contaminated.

Routinely contained in every bite or swallow of non-organic industrial food are genetically engineered ingredients, pesticides, antibiotics and other animal drug residues, pathogens, feces, hormone-disrupting chemicals, toxic sludge, slaughterhouse waste, chemical additives and preservatives, irradiation-derived radiolytic chemical by-products, and a host of other hazardous allergens and toxins.

There can be no such thing as “coexistence” with a reckless GMO-driven food and farming system that undermines public health, destroys biodiversity, damages the environment, tortures and poisons animals, destabilizes the climate, and economically devastates the world’s two billion seed-saving small farmers.

We need mandatory labels so that we can drive Frankenfoods, chemical agriculture, and factory farm products off the market. And if Congress and the Organic Elite take away our right to know, they will leave us no choice but to boycott 90 percent of the foods on grocery store shelves—in other words, everything, unless it’s labeled organic, grass-fed, or non-GMO. If the DARK Act becomes law, QR codes and 1-800 numbers will become the “skull and crossbones” label alerting consumers to boycott this product.

For the past two decades, Organic Consumers and our allies in the Natural Health Movement have taken on some of the most the powerful companies on Earth—Monsanto, DuPont, Dow, Cargill, Archer Daniels, Kraft, Unilever, Nestlé’s, General Mills, Coke and Pepsi—the same companies that are responsible for releasing billions of tons of climate-disrupting greenhouse gas pollution, as well as the pesticides and junk foods that harm you and your family's health.

Now is the time to stand up against Monsanto and the Organic Traitors. Call the OCA toll free line 888-897-0174 and send a message to your U.S. Senators: Stop the Dark Act and let the Vermont GMO labeling law stand. And while you’re at, you might want to go to the Facebook pages of the Organic Traitors and give them a piece of your mind...

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Guess I'll have to stop buying the Stonyfield Farm yogurt!

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