A Nina Turner head-scratcher

Watch and listen to this interview carefully. I watched, as Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti occasionally popped in to try to get Nina Turner to recognize the depths of Joe Biden's failure -- the Democrats' failure -- but eventually I started to scratch my head and wonder "where is Nina Turner GOING with all of this?"

Because a Democratic Party that is completely sold out to well-paying special interests while anticipating a once-in-a-century defeat in 2022 can TOTALLY be relied upon to "fight harder," and because we can TOTALLY put pressure upon them to do the right thing.

You would think Nina Turner would recognize that she has nothing to lose, that the Democrats do not face any shortage of neoliberal social climbers and therefore don't need her, and that the Democrats' super-rich patrons are not suddenly going to transform themselves into nice people because the way one becomes super-rich in America is not by being nice.

Sure, it was nice that SOME of the Squad decided to call Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema on their act. But this is a real head-scratcher.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

...,so early in the process, when "seeing" it and remarking on it can get your bounced as a hater.

NIna is sheep-dogging. I noticed the other day that even Martin Luther King engaged in a bit of sheep-dogging for strategic crowd control.

On one hand, you must consider it a form of diplomacy. They don't want to be deplatformed by being confrontational (extreme). They want to survive to fight another day. And the fact is, the supreme power in DC stands against them, and stands behind Manchin or Sinema. The corporatists have always had the advantage in the US.

So, Nina, and Martin, and Bernie direct their bold and impassioned "I've got a dream" speeches to you, and to the disenfranchised left — the ordinary people who do not have a seat at America's political table. And the people are quite willing to be rounded up and sheep-dogged into imagining that together, they are a real coalition. They have influence in this Democracy — even if they don't have a lot of money to buy the legislators.

In reality, the Left never had a place at the table in the US — but that dream just won't die. Without that illusion, they'd be devastated by their own insignificance.

As the Progressivle caucus matures into their second term, and then their third — they will be handsomely paid for herding the Left and keeping them hopeful and compliant — and endlessly convinced the one of these days they're going to get paid family leave — One of these days, it will be the law of the land. Glory be.

The only way to break this humiliating and degrading political cycle is through the Clean Congress Initiative. The people must strategically vote against each and every incumbent from either party in every election. Never allow a legislator to have a second term in the United States Government. One and done. Only then will they have a fighting chance to make themselves heard.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Cassiodorus's picture

@Pluto's Republic

As the Progressivle caucus matures into their second term, and then their third — they will be handsomely paid for herding the Left and keeping them hopeful and compliant

Where is the money coming from to pay for this show, anyway? If someone was paying Nina Turner for the Democrats-only schtick, you'd think this money would somehow be traceable.

Otherwise, as far as I can tell there is no money in doing what Nina Turner is doing. The existence of The Squad is a testament not to the Democrats' inability to buy neoliberal social climbers for those districts (they can do that), nor to the Democrats' inability to buy off The Squad (they can do that), but rather to the Democrats' INABILITY TO DO ANYTHING outside of arranging quid-pro-quo arrangements with the super-rich and sounding neat and technocratic. (This collective inability has created a vacuum into which The Squad has jumped, in those districts poor enough to care. There's like, what, eight of them?) It is this vacuum that explains why the Democratic Party allows a "left" in the first instance. It's not because there's any money for the likes of Nina Turner.

Certainly this is visible to everyone here. People like Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Pete Buttigieg, and the rest appear in the public eye as NONENTITIES who don't belong in politics. It explains their crappy poll numbers, the lack of enthusiasm behind them, and their lack of interest in policy. You'd think the donors would be able to buy an army of Barack Obamas, or even people with a passing interest in oratory. But they can't. Hey I know! Let's "push them to the left" so they can sound like "Left" technocrats while still doing and being nothing. Is this not obvious? Is someone promising nonexistent money to Nina Turner so she can pretend there's something to these people?

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"The future is inside us/ It's not somewhere else." -- Radiohead

Lily O Lady's picture

@Cassiodorus

save us. https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/01/19/americas-new-class-war/

I suspect that Democrats welcome new unions since unions have historically supported Democrats. Hedges (and I) hopes that the rank and file will defy their venal labor leaders and overturn the power of the oligarchs. We shall see.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

@Cassiodorus

is spot on, imo.

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shaharazade's picture

@Cassiodorus lack of interest in policy might be why people are losing interest in these so called progressives. Ive had it with PC yaking that does nothing but stir the culture divides. If the progressives want support then do something that matters and stand up up to the Democratic estabishment. Nina Turner seems to want to join the corrupt useless players that run the party. How does that helo anyone other then the owners of the place?

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@Cassiodorus

...and the Party chips in if they think the candidate has a role to play and can win the election.

Elections in the US:

The Democratic Party machine recruits new Democratic candidates to run for political office. They also recruit a certain number of Leftists. Radicals. The neoliberal, right-wing Democrats cannot mount a successful national election without the Left, who excite the hopes and dreams of the commoners. This bait and switch has been going on for nearly century. (The Republican Party machine uses an identical strategy, recruiting a selection of ultra-reactionary candidates to excite the masses.) This is the election kabuki of the United States.

Radicals want revolution to bring equality and progress to society. Reactionaries oppose change and social progress, and seek to impose the values of the past. This is the core conflict that serves as a distraction for the American people while the US Empire terrorizes the international world.

You know how all this works. This is how the neoliberals who occupy the Duopoly differentiate themselves, and temporarily convinces voters that US Democracy is all about making their lives better.

The Clean Congress Initative:

This applies to all members of Congress seeking another term (not just to progressive sheepdoggers and Tea Party populists.) These legislators are captured and corrupted when they run for a second term and accept Donor funding.

• The dirty money first arrives if and when a to newly elected member of Congress decide to seek another term.

• These payoffs do not come from the Democratic Party or the Republican Party. They come from corporate Donors and lobbyists under the rules of Citizen's United.

This is why you vote against any and all incumbents from either party. They are captured and forever compromised. Their ideology means nothing. Their loyalty is with the ruling psychopaths and the corporations.

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The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
The Liberal Moonbat's picture

@Pluto's Republic Sounds good. You pitch it well - BUT (at least one of) the argument(s) that has always kept me from supporting term-limits (in addition to the fishy sore-loser circumstances under which Presidential term limits were established to begin with) is, isn't this just going to make the Deep State apparatchiks STRONGER? Who's going to stand up to them without getting tossed into the moat by those who know how to operate the machinery and know where all the supply closets are? I mean, Ocasio-Cortez is an excellent cautionary tale of what happens to most idealistic greenhorns who face the Dungeon Keepers on their own turf.

Explain that to me, and maybe I could get onboard.

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In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is declared insane when he speaks of colors.

To paraphrase Jodie Foster: Human is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from.

@The Liberal Moonbat I skeptically disbelieve that she was genuinely sincere in the first place.

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The People's Party. Krystal opened the door wide open. Nina didn't say a word.

Just another fake.

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What on earth does Nina think she will accomplish here? She says nothing that is of interest to people who might or might not even bother to vote.

As long as what Democrats offer is this kind of self-involved useless patter, the (D) Party will continue to wither and die.

This is Not a casual thing. Or an accident.

Democrats are sticking to contentless blather rather than do or say anything that voters might want to hear. Every word uttered and unsaid, deed done or not done, leads to the inescapable conclusion that the planned and deliberate demise of a political party is happening in real time.

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NYCVG

snoopydawg's picture

@NYCVG

Didn’t she and AOC do a campaign event on the same day there were force the vote in 50 states? Nothing like ignoring the people who you want to vote for you by ignoring their biggest want.

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It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

Proud election denier

zed2's picture

I met Nina Turner once and laid out the whole problem with GATS and healthcare as described by the late Nicholas Skala. Which is a very huge thing and it is well described by him in his paper, which came out in 2009 in the IJHS shortly before his sudden death in August of that year, shortly after his meeting with the House Progressives.

The paper is very good. Its guaranteed to blow any Berners mind. You can read it on CiteSeerX at psu.edu

What has she done since then?

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zed2's picture

the brand of the Democrats to turn them into The Demogops?

I have been trying toget people to see that and there is a hell of a lot of evidence to that efect. Its because the WTO is an international buying off of the cheap labor countries with the jobs and wealth of tghe US middle class. in order to lower wages and loot the country for the oligarchs in 3rd world nations. (which they reopresent at helping the poor millionaires there become billionaires, to catch up with the US billionaires) People should notice that the Clintons have always been aboutthe interests of those oligarchs from around the world, and lots of corruption taking money from them, and the book Clinton Cash which appears to be true describes their foundation as existing in a legal grey area and often failing to disclose contributions, and the implications of this as being pretty sordid.

I have pointed out a connection quite possibly with the Achmea case and the hijacking of the voters wishes in the Slovak Republic and public health insurance. The insurance company managed to prevent a decision and legal precedent allowing a country topick to have public health insurance after signing a trade deal, a huge victory for them because they lost the case in the EU Court of Justice. All this happened - coincidentally or not, after they (the dutch insurance company Achmea) paid $400000 for Bill Clinton to give a speech in the rain in Holland. (the case in the European top court was between them and the Slovak Republic over the state insurance plan, the people of Slovakia had overwhelminglyvoted for a return to single payer after two years of Achmea. But they had signed a contract, a trade deal that seems to have tied their hands. What was more binding? In other words, did their vote mean anything at all? We didnt find out, the case was dropped on a technicality. I suspect Clinton is kind of a fixer for a trade-deal based plot to hijack democracy everywhere, a global coup, by the worlds rich to take over our planets future for them and them alone, using the WTO, TiSA etc. Destroying the very idea of a middle class anywhere and creating hollowed out economies without middle class jobs. Making the staffing firms (many of whom base themselves in India) the masters of most of those jobs. By skimming off the profits, the "cream" of millions of workers jobs, the firms that are the gateways to the wanna be rich's only chance at jobs. (Some have told me they must pay bribes toget those jobs) Making workers exchange places in order to disempower unions. And them. This is the real agenda. If you want public service jobs globalized, vote for globalists like the aforementioned three who want trade deals, because thats what they plan to do. Ending the middle class as we have grown up with it. And skimming off the trillions of dollars that currently goes to workers that they frame as "unsustainable" To them the only development that is "sustainable" is low wage . This isa thread that goes throughout their agenda, nobody can do well, wage wise or unionize and be called "sustainable" only their dreams are sustainable. Its all a cozy little clup to shut the 99percent everywhere out. And they frame that tomake the vast middle in the US look like the bad guy - in order to funnel the 1% wealth ever higher, to them, the elephants chart must be interpreted as meaning the middle class must be knocked down to the botom. Also as American type wages are wanted by the skilled workers in developing countries, america must be removed as a example of skilled workers doing well, since otherwise the needed workers would want more pay. America is being used as a bait destination for temporary workers, and permanent residency is being held up to them as a pize, but by the time they get it, the wages here will be barely higher than those they are fleeing. In other words its a bait and switch scheme. Just like health care.

They frame all these skills that they resell to make money off of as commodities and are attempting to devalue them by making them subject to new rules making them tradable services. Countries cant discriminate against thye "exports" of other countries, which means unions are illegal because they stand in the way of trade. They become disrimination and basically a crime. All laws against discrimination against historically mistreated groups must be subsumed by the new trade rules which invariably frame them as discrimination and illegal. Many co0untries have all sorts of discrimination against women and against the uneducated poor and so on, they cannot be shut out because their employers onl promote Brahmins, etc. Also if they discriminate against Americans that seems to be okay. So the shift to temping and subcontracting is expected to be the death nail in the coffin of woments rights in public workplaces because of the foreign subcontracting firms moving in. Since we cannot tell them who tohire, our workers will lose those jobs, leaving tio millons of Americans receiving a real kick in the teeth fromthese changes they may never recover from.

All in the name of helping Africa, Asia, etc.

The South Asian rich see the awarding of jobs to self taught, uneducated Americans as a threat to them. They accuse us of "hoarding" jobs by shutting their temping firms out. Its "discimination" against their workers. Certainly its a twisted kind of civil rights movement that frames the awarding of jobs equally to capable, motiovated Americans of all races and genders but in this new world thats been created thats whats happening. They want their fair share of the jobs to broker. That means a great many Americans who are framed as demanding wages that are too high as deservong of being pushed out. "Its their turn" to get the jobs now. We have had 26 years while they waited and negotiated over the terms, and in 2016 the Doha negotiations ended. Certainly some kind of deal was made, because of all the events happening now.

.They are protesting to the WTO when we subsidize education, healthcare etc, because those jobs ar earmarked to be globalized, (committed in GATS) since 1995. It was promised to them as part of a trade, otherwise other countries would have increased public healthcare, education and so on. In exchange for ending public services elswhere, we have to give up public jobs. because we insist that their countries "remain open to trade" by privatizing public services everywhere, so how could we ever allow any current or future increases in public education, healthcare etc. here, so now we cant, its forbidden to add or increase any public provision of any service beyond the level when the deals were signed, its only allowed to privatize them more and more, and outsource them more and more.

The world's direction was changed from getting better to only getting worse, which is called "progressive liberalization" and its a one way street, when these deals were signed and Dems have been hiding all this. Proving that the Democratic Party of today is the opposite of what it pretends to be.

They signed.our country's future away. When we signed their trade deals. Similarly, by leaving the EU, the UK is giving up the NHS, because an EU exemption to these rules just ended.

Its the opposite of what people think Brexit does. Because of their financial services industry they are going to find they cannot have heir NHS if they continue to sell their rich health insurance.NHS can only help people who could never afford health insurance. Its the same here, any public service can only be for those who hve virtually no income and itmust be a loan, if they gain any additional income, it disqualifies them, and money wrongfuly spent helping those who it turns becak were not entitled to it must be clawed back and they must be rebilled at the uninsured rate.

Health benefits spent on people who in reality were deemed tro have been ineligible- the working poor, must be clawed back. when they die it must be paid back. Its the same here. really want totake from them because they "dont deserve it" in their new meaner economy. They want to end the middle class and all decent paying jobs that dont require a super expensive education. GATS also privatizes all public services bit by bit in a one way process, "progressive liberalization" That ratchets in and cannot be reversed.. If anybody wants proof that they fully intend to destroy anything thats really progressive there it is. In order to buy off the wealthier elites in the poor nations, they want the money thats going to support a middle class in the US, EU, etc, to go to them, if they pay for the jobs. That becomes a sort of "reparatiuons' they can point to for africa, for India, etc. Except the irony is that those are actually the very same families who more often than people think, collaborated with the slavers and the colonialist governments. So they are actually the descendnts of the people who sold many Africans into slavery, also huge amounts of money were stolen in formerly colonized countries right after decolonialization, lent by US and European banks to be promptly stolen and put inh this huge offshore banking system set up by the British to stash this loot. These banks knew that it would be stolen so this debt which was stolen is "odious" meaning its a bad debt which they themselves lost by their own mistake. But now they want the poor countries to repay it and they are also doing something similar here, and they want the American taxpayer to be on the hook for it. They plan I am sure to steal a huge amount of money from us again, like happened in 2008 due to GATS. Exceptthis time I suspect triggering a punitive sanctions leaving the US a debt ridden shell. (To punish the people of the US for failing toprevent them from doing this) I have no special information. Its just what these international crooks always do when they think they can and its now been a decade since the last time they did it so they now want to do it again. I grew up spending more time with oligarchs than most people and I think I have a better idea what some of them think. (the drunk parents of some of my childhood friends, in California, ranting way back then.)

Anyway, I think I see this coming, and we're just like children they are taking candy from naive babies.. Thats how they see it. And they are well on their way to doing that too.

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Cassiodorus's picture

@zed2 Nina Turner is what she is not because of money but rather because the Democrats are such nonentities that someone like Turner can come along and carve out a tiny niche in the party just by exercising some degree of oratory. So why, in this particular interview, couldn't Turner call out the Democrats for what they are?

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"The future is inside us/ It's not somewhere else." -- Radiohead

usefewersyllables's picture

is the same as it has been for at the past several decades: to lose elections narrowly, so that their paid-staff/consultant/grifter class can go back to the donors (again) and say "Missed it by that much! Just give us even more money, and we'll win it next time for sure!”.

Right. Sure thing. Youbetcha.

The problem is that the dem party has invested so heavily, for so long, in losing. Losing guarantees that they don't even have to try and govern, and they can't be held be responsible for anything: all they can do is bitch and moan. Which will certainly bring in even more donations from the many wealthy people who are also heavy into bitching and moaning, but doesn't do jack shit to actually, you know, help manage any situation beyond fleecing their braindead donors. So we'll continue to hear lots of bitching and moaning about how they can't do anything, and of course nothing good will happen. They will lose. They are good at it. 2020 was an aberration.

After all, losing is profitable as hell, once you have the scam in place. The dem paid-staff/consultant/grifter class is making bank! Herself torched $1.4 billion last time out. Why would they actually try to avoid losing, when it pays them elephant-choking bales of untraceable donated cash? They just want to feed from that self-refilling (and self-fulfilling) trough for as long as possible. Just don't look to them for anything resembling leadership or support of the population at large. That's not what they are there for in this modern era, after all. There are pockets to be lined.

All the dems do is corrupt and destroy; whatever it takes to maintain their own private path to the donated cash slop trough. They are where ideas go to be diluted, co-opted, and die. We’ve seen this movie too many times. This voter will not be checking anything on a D ballot line. My vote will be third party only, if I bother at all.

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

zed2's picture

@usefewersyllables. did you read my several posts, they explain i think your observations.

The powers thatbe frame US wages as unsustainable, which means that they are not making the profits that they want or claim they deserve because workers are making too much. They compare US wages with ones n other countries and feel its unfair for them to have to pay more here, since all workers are human beings and on the average about equivalent in intelligence, although in terms of education, other workers may be better educated. (for what they pay)

Unforunately they have been working to change this, to bring our wages way down. There really is this big global deal and the US "middle class" is the big loser in it. In their world, that increases "efficiency" and even though we the people lose, they gain, and they, meaning their profits is what is seen to "matter".

thats what planners in Washington try to do, increase their profits.

If workers lose jobs by the million, the country is set uup more and more so that doesnt result in government spending. Because we are not allowed to subsidize things that businesses sell because of foreign investment in those areas. If the government supplied those things to the people, it might be stealing from foreign investors. (this is called indirect expropriation)

If we the people don't lose those allegedly over-high wages, if we don't lose, the other partners in the deal cant get what they made the deal to get, trillions of dollars in higher profits. That were made available by making "services" tradable in 1995. When Bill Clinton's administration allegedly created the WTO.

So if you analyze whats being done, our future is being traded away, they claim its beneficial because overall profits go up a lot when the amount that's going to our people goes down so much.; This is called an efficiency gain, look that phrase up. For example, the global economy has X billion dollars in efficiency gains due to the offshoring of y million US jobs to Mexico via NAFTA.

I can show you lots of economic analyses, they are predicting huge global gains of trillions of dollars going to the owners of mega firms and businesses all over the world which will come from the successful lowering so many wages and cutting so many jobs and pensions, especially. Get it, read my posts above, I think I do a good job of explaining this. Could you please let me know that you got this? If I dont hear back from you I am going to assume you didnt see them - at all. Basically that I am being censored, even here, of all places.

IF you dont follow read "The Basic Economics of the Services Trade", by Brian Copeland, et al.

I am no stranger to censorship.

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usefewersyllables's picture

@zed2 , no, I didn't.

If you are looking for a reason as to why, consider this: I don't recall asking for (or particularly needing to have) my own observations explained to me. You aren't being censored. If anything, you are simply being ignored, at least by me.

Try using fewer syllables. Hope that helps.

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

@usefewersyllables

makes sense

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zed2's picture

for millions of Americans to lose their jobs so they can be outsourced and offshored?

Because we just make too damn much, thats the core of what they are doing by signing all these trade deals thatintend to replace expensive US workers with low cost guest workers both here and elsewhere. . See this paper.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.574.5527&rep=re...

In the deal they also make it so only a very few totally free, noncommercial services, like lighthouses, can be public services. (UNless there are commercial lighthouse providers, which there actually now are, but lighthouse services miraculously are still free to boat owners, and so is GPS. Thats because there is really no practical gain to selling it, yet. At some point GPS may be privatized, though because as I said, the rules demand it if a service has competition or is provided on a commercial basis, anywhere in that country's territiry. For example, some countries allow the bottling and selling of clean air. This means that the government cannot provide it and unfairly compete with the "legitimate owners of that market" . Nor can it aid and abet those who do with public funds. This is why the Democratic Party if it is part of the goivernment could never allow a true progressive to be nominated. They already agreed not to.

Understand? Yes, that means healthcare and all higher and adult education both as well as water are supposed to eventually be completely privatized, incrementally. Very little if anything is not supposed to be privatized. (and globalized)

What about the healthcare services for the destitute, like medicaid, and the primary schools for the poor?

Well, I think you probably get that they can only be given to the truly poor and that only they will be eligible. If they are not eligible, they will have to reimburse the state for subsidized services mistakenly given to wage earners.
This is the ideology they promote, you'll see if you read the fine print.

Americans will be directly competing with foreign firms and their workers for all jobs eventually, if our leaders plans are implemented.

And the wages paid in the wage exporting nations may be very low because employers are expected to flock to the countries with the least regulation.

The foreign firms operating in the US, now, to start, currently now are supposed to pay a legal US wage for that area. But that requirement is being challenged and may well vanish, because the foreign countries claim it discriminates against them and their workers because it being in a treaty which we entered into they claim they are entitled to use their primary competitive advantage which is much lower wages to win the jobs. And that makes sense, because why would we have signed the deal if we didn't mean to replace our workers with cheaper ones to increase the efficiency? Because of automation, jobs are in fact going away for good. Many businesses don't need practically any workers any more. So US workers need to know this to decide who to vote for. No matter how populist or communist or fascist a politician is they cannot exert any legislation to regulate jobs that don't exist. Even their own. If technology gives us ways to say, do any business automatically, even the business of governing, without (expensive, corruptible, whatever) workers,that's just what happens. Humanity will go on. Also, they all may have to compete with alternatives.

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zed2's picture

She doesnt understand the language the neoliberals are using. Also the legislators hands have been deliberately tied. So they cant do what Nina says the Dems want. All those things are off limits because they cost corporations money. She literally has it all backwards. She is in denial because she literally shut out the truth because she didnt want to start a progressive party, she s being lazy.

She feels shes fighting for justice but they beat her before she even started, way back in 1995 our opponents of both parties went to the international level to cancel out our voters.
They joined up with the other sleazy oligarchs of the world and set up a whole amoral justice system to make sure no justice is done, as we define it. And its working
.

Its called The General Agreement on Trade in Services, and it blocks the entire Democratic agenda.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@zed2

Remember the KISS principle "Keep It Simple, So-there!"

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

zed2's picture

They cant do anything about healthcare with voting now, its 2022 not 1991. The treaty that blocks us was signed years ago, US Healthcare is OWNED by corporations, Voting, if any is done on this matter is in the WTO. One country, one vote!

This is Nicholas Skala and a few weeks after this he was dead.

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zed2's picture

tory skill, like Obama.

Obama was legendary for sweet talking black people out of their homes in public housing.

US client state Iran was heavily involved in dealing heroin throughout the word, especially Ashraf Pahlavi, "Princess Ashraf"

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