Medical kidnapping, a legal extension of the police state

During a rare foray into my emails, mostly spam anyway, I came across this monstrosity:
medical kidnapping.

Medical kidnapping is the phenomenon of the state taking children away from their parents and putting them into foster care, “simply because the parents did not agree with a doctor regarding their prescribed medical treatment for the family,” according to the book, “Medical Kidnapping: A Threat to Every American Today.”

This is one of the most ill-conceived projects undertaken by our expanding police state, which by virtue of this policy, is able to destroy the family unit simply because a parent disagrees with a medical diagnosis foisted upon them by a physician or physicians. The underlying premise, as you can read in the cited link is that physicians are always correct, even when their diagnosis is "I don't know what's wrong". The usual terminology employed by physicians who thusly demonstrate their lack of knowledge is to say "It's all in their heads", i.e., psychosomatic.

I wish physicians could be almost infallible, but that just isn't so and never will be so. The number of variables to be considered in many medical dilemmas can be, and often is, absolutely staggering. Most modern pediatricians see over 100 patients daily. Even with so-called physician extenders (something like medical Viagra) to lessen the physician load, diagnosing young children, many of whom are preverbal, can be daunting.

Although the usual pediatric ailments, excluding inborn errors of metabolism, which are genetically determined, are viral or bacterial or traumatic, every busy practice is absolutely going to contain medical outliers. Most GPs, FPs, and pediatricians are simply not going to be experienced enough to recognize such things as mitochondrial diseases, rare bacterial and or viral agents. Many simply do not take the time to thoroughly obtain a good history from patient and parent.

Like Hillary Clinton, many doctors will excuse away their own knowledge failings, lacking the integrity to simply state "I don't know what's wrong. You should get another opinion." This deterioration of medical integrity is obviously foisted upon the unsuspecting public due to quite a few variables, of which this is a partial listing:

1. Increased remuneration of a physician by requiring return visits in lieu of either more sophisticated testing or appropriate referral.

2. Administrative overload foisted upon physician practices by insurance company and / or governmental bureaucracy.

3. The now universal requirement of electronic medical records (EMR), which are meant to increase medical information portability, but in reality result in hurried, incomplete, often pro forma information entries. These data points usually do not account for variations from the pre-selected choices poised by most EMR forms. This requirement usually results in a computer being placed in front of the physician, whose nose is often buried in the screen, rather than the eyes and ears being trained on patient or parent. Some patients report having no actual physical contact with the physician--i.e., a physical examination, even cursory.

The accusation of Munchausen by proxy [MBP] (i.e., false attribution of symptoms by a third party to a dependent [child]) is a serious LEGAL charge more often than medical diagnosis. If the "healthcare provider" takes a dislike to parent or other involved individual, the whole suggestion of this phenomenon is biased from the beginning. Often, refutation of the accusation of MBP, requires proving a negative. "You, Mr/Ms Parent are inventing this condition because I, the omniscient healthcare provider know everything. You who live 24/7 with young child, don't because you are an (uncaring, abusive, ignorant, malevolent dolt. So prove to me that the factitious illness you attribute to your child really exists." Guilty until proven innocent.

In the meanwhile, while the young dependent(s), allegedly victims of MBP, are taken away from the parents, unless and until the parent can gather enough medical evidence and/or legal assistance to restore the family unit. The residual trauma from such fired, unwarranted separation of child from parent may be lifelong.

The Funding Streams

Arizona stands out as especially bad when it comes to this sort of child snatching, but the funding streams that incentivize it are a national problem, said Connie Reguli, a Tennessee attorney noted for taking on Child Protective Services (CPS), in an interview with the Caller.

She said the problem started in 1974 with the Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA), a brainchild of Walter Mondale, Jimmy Carter’s vice president.

CAPTA is primarily controlled with funds from Social Security Title IV (parts B and E). Social Security Title IV provides grants to states for aid to dependent children. Title IV E provides incentives to place and keep kids in foster homes, while Title IV B provides funds for family reunification.

Reguli said that the problem is that Title IV E incentives dwarf Title IV B, by about an order of magnitude, she said. This creates an incentive to snatch kids.

She said another problem is the Adoption and Safe Families Act (ASFA), which provides extra financial incentives for kids in foster care to then be adopted out.

Follow the money. Money is king. Police have been incentivized to participate, even demand, such usurpation of family responsibility. Just like "civil forfeiture" used in suspected drug crimes or other offenses enrich law enforcement agencies, so does the CAPTA act.

A trend is quite evident here. The state takes upon itself the right to prejudge the actions of citizens on the basis of no more than hearsay, which much of the medical inferences often are: unsupported by fact.

Of course MBP does exist and often, due to medical unsophistication of such perpetrators, are easily discovered. When MBP is difficult to prove, the diagnosis MUST be supported by an independent and qualified second opinion. Such an opinion requires consultation with experts in medical specialties able to make such determinations--not a police sergeant or a nurse administrator, etc.

If this phenomenon were an isolated instance of the exertion of state power into our private lives, it would not be as disturbing as it seems were it not for the pseudo criminalization of rights of assembly, free expression, right to bear arms, freedom from warrantless each and seizure, warrantless inquisitions such as FISA.

Other instances of possibly unwarranted judicial intrusion involves vaccination. Many vaccines, notably the Salk Polio Vaccine have been a tremendous boon to the overall health of people world-wide. Other vaccinations, such as influenza vaccination, amount to nothing more than medical roulette, betting on 00 as to the next flu epidemic. The choice of vaccine components, even if the so-called inert ingredients are discounted, usually results in a bad guess. The correct infective strain is often not discovered until the epidemic is half over and the correct vaccine becomes available at the tail end of the influenzal lifecycle.

With a little more effort, other instances of medical failings leading to coercive judicial action, will be discovered. My purpose is not to provide a list of intrusive quasi-medical decisions given the force of law, but to advise of this most recent abusive practice of medical kidnapping.

Share
up
0 users have voted.

Comments

Alligator Ed's picture

This illustration shows clearly a design to save medical insurers money at the expense of both patients and physicians:

up
0 users have voted.

makes a crack about internet diagnosis is not doctor for me. S/he should be damned grateful I'm interested enough in my health to take the time to get involved.

I am mixed on "medical kidnapping" just like I am about forced vaccinations. I am pro mandatory vaccination, but I think they give too many to soon pumping a child full of a touch of this and that disease. I'm not convinced that all immune systems are equal and can handle the barrage. As far as forced medical treatment...what about the religious crackpot who wants to kill their child over a simple antibiotic? Life is never black and white.

up
0 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

@dkmich @dkmich
i cannot bear to write down here, the punishments i would reserve for parents whose children die because the parents, driven by superstition and/or ignorance and/or conspiracy delusions, withhold from them basic medical treatment.

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Alligator Ed's picture

@UntimelyRippd Relatively few treatments of serious diseases, such as cancer, exist without associated possibilities of life-threatening complications. The risks are rarely quantified according to important variables, including diet, associated conditions and medications needed for those illnesses. If medicine is going to controlled by the legal system, rather than enlightened, i.e. concerned, physicians, then we are back to forced hospitalizations for "mental illnesses" such as not believing government propaganda. Joe Stalin, in his more benign moments ordered many such dissidents into psychiatric prisons for daring to question the Soviet State. Now we have Uncle Sam beginning to assert primacy in medical decision making, not just on health care financing.

up
0 users have voted.

@Alligator Ed
And if a child is going to die because his parents won't let him have a transfusion, I am ready to argue in favor of a policy that says: We put the child's corpse in a crypt. And we brick it up. With the parents inside.

And that will end that bullshit.

As dkmich said, it isn't black and white. The state can always overreach (as with that poor teenage girl in Massachussetts a few years ago). Life is never perfectly fair. Life isn't even fairly perfect. There will always be dilemmas. There will always be cases right on the line where half the population thinks one thing, and half thinks another. Somewhat tragically, we live in a society that gives weight to the opinions of people who think their mythologies carry some significance. Either the state accepts the responsibility of protecting children from their parents, or it does not, but once we choose "accepts" the argument about whether the state has the right is gone. Over. Argument settled. At that point, we can only strive to shape a state -- a set of public social institutions -- sufficiently imbued with humanistic values that the best decisions, given the available information, will be made as often as is measurably possible. It can never be 100%. I've explained this before, once quite recently. There will always be false positives and false negatives. Sensitivity versus Selectivity. This is fundamental to the nature of deciding, it is a law of the universe, as surely as "2+2=4", as surely as gravity, as surely as the Uncertainty Principle.

And yes, Today, I Won The Internets, because I was able to construct a paragraph that, although it was not planned to do so, arrived at a moment where the only sensible, reasonable phrase to come next was, "as surely as the Uncertainty Principle".

You're welcome.

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

snoopydawg's picture

@dkmich

I think they give too many to soon pumping a child full of a touch of this and that disease. I'm not convinced that all immune systems are equal and can handle the barrage

Children should be vaccinated for childhood diseases, but it seems that the number of vaccinations keeps going up with less time in between them. Vaccines are basically safe, but they have caused deaths and very bad injuries that people shouldn't just poo poo and say that they are safe. Lots of girls that got the guardisal vaccine for HPV have had serious issues after getting them. If I was younger there is no way I would get it. And some states want to make it mandatory for boys to get it. No forced vaccinations. Not for that.

up
0 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

@snoopydawg
@snoopydawg
person was ever harmed by Gardasil.

Post hoc, propter hoc. It's the purest, simplest, most perfect of logical fallacies, so deeply rooted in our cognition that every single one of us does it now and then, and some of us more often than that. Some of us do it almost all the time. It is at the root of most superstition, a hell of a lot bigotry, and an endless array of poor decision making. It is the un-epistemology, the singular bane of humanity. I mean, don't get me wrong, you can actually get pigeons to succumb to PHPH, but what humans have is the astonishing capacity to imagine causation in the most abstract of forms. We don't need to be duped into PHPH by guys in lab coats, PHPH is what we do unless someone warns us off.

If 3,650,000 13-year-olds get Gardasil vaccinations in a year, uniformly distributed at 10,000 per day; And if 365 of those 13-year-olds -- 1/100th of 1% -- experience during that year the onset of one of any number of rare, serious, unpredicted, poorly understood health problems, also uniformly distributed at 1 per day -- but with no causal link to the Gardasil vaccination -- then about 15 of them will in fact experience that disease onset within 2 weeks of their Gardasil vaccinations, at which point their parents will go ballistic. Meanwhile, if 1% experience some sort of uncommon but not rare medical problem -- a bad fever, or a migraine episode, or 2 days of puking, or some such, then FIFTEEN HUNDRED of them will have that experience within 2 weeks of their vaccination, and if only 10% of their parents fail to comprehend the post hoc propter hoc fallacy, we'll have another 300 dimwits telling 2 friends who tell 2 friends who tell 2 friends (nevermind telling 200 foolsbook "friends") that Gardasil made their kid sick.

If Gardasil caused the onset of ... well, anything really ... that would show up, really clearly, as a massive spike in cases coinciding with the vaccine's appearance. Just as, for example, there's a complete collapse in cases of measles corresponding with the introduction of the measles vaccine. 25 years ago, I found myself arguing with some clown who tried to argue that the drop in diseases like tetanus, typhus, measles and such was due to better hygiene. I mean, for fuck's sake, the data are not equivocal. There wasn't a magic moment in improved hygiene that preferentially reduced only measles shortly after the introduction of the measles vaccine, followed a few years later by another magic moment in improved hygiene that mysteriously addressed the rubella that had stubbornly resisted MMIIH #1, coinciding with the introduction of the rubella vaccine.

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Alligator Ed's picture

@UntimelyRippd Concurrency is not the same as correlation. No cause/effect relationship is demonstrated with out proof of mechanism other than coincidence. Trying to get most people to realize this is practically useless. Very few of the unenlightened choose too become enlightened: "don't bother me with the facts, I have my own opinions".

up
0 users have voted.

@Alligator Ed @Alligator Ed
that is applied across millions of people, because that absolutely guarantees that bad things will happen to some of them within 2 weeks of their application.

It's surprising that more people haven't claimed that taking a driver's test caused their kids' first-ever onset of migraine, or their leukemia, or their pregnancy, or whatever.

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

snoopydawg's picture

@UntimelyRippd

There is no way you can state unequivocally that no one has been injured by this or any other vaccine. Why do you think that the pharmaceutical companies badgered congress so hard to be able to hide injuries caused by vaccines? Or why they pay people who have been injured and make them sign a confidentiality agreement?

up
0 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

@snoopydawg
"There is not one shred of evidence ..."

And there is not.

Period.

If you think there is, you are mistaken.

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Alligator Ed's picture

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg As in many things, genuinely bad results can occur with any medical procedure, even so basic as taking a common medicine. Without valid comparative studies, such as double-blind, placebo-controlled, trials it can be virtually impossible to prove such outliers are subject to a causal relationship between treatment and response. The responses may be either the goal of treatment (i.e., efficacy trials; FDA phase I studies) or an unwanted side-effect. For relatively infrequent results, there are two approaches:
1. Simultaneous, controlled tracking of treatment results, or
2. Retrospective studies of large groups of people potentially subject to a disease or who have undergone certain procedures/medications.

An example would be the incidence of polio in persons becoming ill prior to the advent of the Salk vaccine compared to infection rates in a similar group of people who were not vaccinated when the Salk vaccine became available. The same approach can be applied to Gardasil or other drugs thought to be harmful. The problem is that, using this approach, a very large comparator group must be used in each scenario. The rarer the disease occurring naturally or as a result of treatment, the larger the two groups (usually only two groups, treated or not treated) are necessary. In the cited example, untimelyrippd's analysis of, say, Gardasil, cannot be proven NOR DISPROVEN. Outliers do exist and the results can be every bit as pathologic as feared--but the proof requires analysis, using comparable subgroups; which then necessitates large groups of like-treated individuals. I, too, believe that some vaccines cause side-effects. In the case of the 1976 swine flu vaccination, the number of people sustaining severe neurologic injury was so large, especially compared to prior flu vaccines and subsequent formulations thereof, was overwhelming. No equivocation is possible about that one particular vaccine's property of causing harm.

P.S., never get a flu vaccination. Pneumonia immunization is another thing. Pneumonia rates in elderly people receiving such vaccine generally are lower without common ill-effects--though there always will be some--causally-related.

up
0 users have voted.

@snoopydawg
The only "evidence" available to you (or me) is pure post hoc propter hoc: A teenager was vaccinated, and then at some point in the next 2 hours to 2 weeks developed some sort of symptoms, and now that teenager's parents go around telling anyone who will listen that Gardasil caused their child's medical issue.

We cannot, of course, know whether there is any other evidence, perhaps being evilly kept from us by those evil anti-human bureaucrats at the CDC (most of whom would be pretty surprised to discover that they hate people and want to harm them by deliberately lying to them about the risks of Gardasil and other therapies). But then, we also cannot know whether there are aliens in a freezer at Roswell.

So the problem is that lacking any data-supported statistical argument, post hoc propter hoc is one of the worst categories of evidence there is (mind you, it's not great even when there is a data-supported statistical argument: correlation does not prove causation). As I remarked in my other comment, it is likely that hundreds of teens are injured in accidents shortly after receiving Gardasil vaccinations. It is certain that thousands of teens bomb an exam within a week or so of their vaccination. Thousands break up with their boyfriend/girlfriend. Many contract oral or genital herpes. Others tear their ACLs. Not one of these distressing events are ever blamed on Gardasil, for exactly three reasons:
A. They're not unusual -- everybody expects them occasionally.
B. Most people, medical professionals and layfolk alike, understand pretty well the causes of all these things.
C. Few minds can easily hypothesize a reasonable and likely mechanism for Gardasil to cause the event.

This being the case, they don't trigger anyone's PHPH the way that some oddball diagnosis will. Well, fine: but just because something unusual happened doesn't mean it's connected in any way to something else that happened somewhat earlier. This is especially true when the something else that happens millions of times. It's like the lottery: "Somebody has to win". Well, if some teens occasionally buy scratch-off lottery tickets with any frequency, some of those teens are going to win a few hundred bucks -- maybe more -- during the week after their Gardasil vaccination. Regardless, only a lunatic would go around explaining that the Gardasil vaccination causes lottery wins, because his daughter one $1000 the Saturday after her vaccination.

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

snoopydawg's picture

@UntimelyRippd

hundreds of teens are injured in accidents shortly after receiving Gardasil vaccinations. It is certain that thousands of teens bomb an exam within a week or so of their vaccination. Thousands break up with their boyfriend/girlfriend. Many contract oral or genital herpes. Others tear their ACLs. Not one of these distressing events are ever blamed on Gardasil, for exactly three reasons:

Not.

Sheesh..

up
0 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

@snoopydawg
you aren't understanding what I'm saying. Which is bothersome, because I think I was very, very clear. Only a complete dumbfuck would imagine that just because dozens of teenagers bomb a test at school within a week of a Gardasil vaccination (which I absolutely guarantee you happens), that Gardasil might be causing teenagers to bomb exams. Well guess what? It makes no more sense to think that, because somebody's teenager first started having seizures 73.6 hours after their Gardasil vaccination, Gardasil was the probable cause. Every single day some teenager or teenagers in America have their first onset of seizures. Inevitably, some of these first onsets will coincide with Gardasil vaccinations. Inevitably, because every week thousands of teenagers have vaccinations, and every week a handful of teenagers experience an initial onset of seizures, and some teenagers are going to belong to both groups. You cannot conclude that Gardasil was the cause. You must not. To do so is to abandon reason in favor of an ideologically driven superstition that leads you away from being able to interact cogently and rationally with the physical universe in which you exist.

It's this simple: If 10,000 teenagers are vaccinated every day, we will over time observe many, many instances of teenagers experiencing "rare" and "unusual" and "uncommon" within a short time after their vaccination. It. Is. Inevitable. There will be a very small number who simply drop dead without warning. There will be some who experience a migraine for the first time. There will be some who have psychotic episodes for the first time. There will be some who attempt suicide. It will happen. It would happen even if we "vaccinated" them with nothing but saline solution. If we randomly selected 10,000 teenagers per day and marked a little dot behind their left ears, some of them would have some sort of negative medical experience within a week or so, because out of any sample of 10,000 teenagers, somewhere between 100 and 1000 of them have some sort of negative medical experience in any given 2-week period. It's simple coincidence.

I will say one final time: You have no information, none, that justifies even suspecting that anyone has been harmed by Gardasil, nevermind asserting such as confirmed fact. You are succumbing to superstitious thinking, stimulated partly by your general mistrust of the medical establishment.

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

studentofearth's picture

have been an issue for multiple years. The pattern of abuse keeps expanding to other areas of American lives. Especially a problem if there is profit to be made for various players. Legislation helps, but often work arounds are found by the original players once no one is looking again.

Most of my adult life there have been news stories about forced cancer treatment for minors.

All agencies of U.S. law enforcement are on a manhunt, not for suspected terrorists or even convicts escaped from prison, but rather a mother and her 13-year-old cancer-stricken son./


How the Elderly Lose Their Rights:
Guardians can sell the assets and control the lives of senior citizens without their consent—and reap a profit from it.

After a stranger became their guardian, Rudy and Rennie North were moved to a nursing home and their property was sold.
...
On the Friday before Labor Day, 2013, the Norths had just finished their toast when a nurse, who visited five times a week to help Rennie bathe and dress, came to their house, in Sun City Aliante, an “active adult” community in Las Vegas. They had moved there in 2005, when Rudy, a retired consultant for broadcasters, was sixty-eight and Rennie was sixty-six. They took pride in their view of the golf course, though neither of them played golf.

Rudy chatted with the nurse in the kitchen for twenty minutes, joking about marriage and laundry, until there was a knock at the door. A stocky woman with shiny black hair introduced herself as April Parks, the owner of the company A Private Professional Guardian. She was accompanied by three colleagues, who didn’t give their names. Parks told the Norths that she had an order from the Clark County Family Court to “remove” them from their home. She would be taking them to an assisted-living facility. “Go and gather your things,” she said.

A couple of other horror links:
Feb 2019 The Face of the Elder Guardian Trap
Guardian Abuse Cases: List of Guardian Abuse Tactics

up
0 users have voted.

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

snoopydawg's picture

@studentofearth

I've heard a little about elderly people losing their homes, but the story you wrote about is absolutely horrible. Can you even imagine someone doing that to you?

The story about Lily is hard for me to understand. How can a court just give away a person's autonomy without talking to the rest of the family?

From your first link.

Samuel has been named as guardian to about 50 Floridians. In a telephone interview, Samuel defended her actions as being centered on what she sees as quality care for her wards. She insisted that all real estate transactions made on behalf of her wards have been approved by the court.

Seriously? People don't even have to be family members to take guardianship over another person? Damn this is so wrong.

Florida law gives any “adult person” the right to file a guardianship petition and question someone’s competency including a neighbor, real estate agent, business partner, unhappy lover or total stranger in a hospital or nursing home.

Imagine if this happened.

Dr. Sugar points to the case of the guardianship lawyer in Boca Raton, Florida, who filed a petition against Donald Trump during the presidential campaign. Attorney James Herb claimed Trump exhibited signs of histrionic and narcissistic personality disorder and asked a judge to order a competency examination to determine if he was competent to hold office.

This is still wrong, but it's kinda funny...

up
0 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Alligator Ed's picture

@snoopydawg where lawyers are allowed to practice medicine. How about a contingency fee that limits their compensation based upon cure? The cases can then go to appellate court if the patient/client seems not to be getting better but the lawyer disagrees: "S/he is still breathing. I want me money!"

up
0 users have voted.