Last night's Sanders call and the reason for it.

Short post because I'm back on the iPhone for a few days. You know how it is. Needed air conditioning the past couple months so it's keep the electricity going or pay Internet (which you can't use without electricity) and somehow find money to pay all this and find someone to borrow something to live on until the 3rd of September (having had 32 cents in the bank for the last 9 days). My daughter Carrie has been an absolute angel and paid for my phone for a couple years. Without her I would' even have that.

NOT ONE WORD OF THAT PARAGRAPH WAS OR IS INTENDED TO ELICIT PITY. BUT IT IS WHY I INTEND TO FOLLOW AND WORK FOR SANDER'S NEW ORGANIZATION. I am poor and elderly and no one else gives a fat rat's ass about people like me, just Sanders. To every other politician out there I am no one, just an elderly 'worthless eater' as Shill's BFF Henry K. would say. This is a chance for people living like me to be heard. I worked for decades, paid my dues, and now I'm expected to shut up and go away. Fuck that!

Last night we had Progressive speakers before the meeting that spoke about every subject that Sanders campaigned on and how we CANNOT just throw up our hands in despair and quit. We need to start pounding doors, throwing house parties, talk talk talk to our neighbors and our community. PUSH BACK AND BUILD OUR OWN PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT. Elect people with progressive ideals and beliefs. He only mentioned 'Secretary Clinton' twice and not in a 'friendly' tone. Nor did he ever once say to cast a vote for her. He also mentioned the Dem 'platform' which he praised as being 'progressive' And he also said a lot of what is on political party platforms gets 'ignored' so we CANNOT depend on the hope that politicians will adhere to it, we must FORCE them to adhere to it. Even if it means taking it to the streets.

One of our speakers was Mr. Frank LeMere, a Winnebago activist trying to shut down the predators in White Clay. Read up on Mr LeMere. Wonderful man. He is a tireless worker who has fought for Native American right's for decades and involved in the endless effort to shut down the pipelines that the government is trying to force on us. And Sanders and every other speaker said that no matter what, the TPP must be stopped by any and all means when Obama tries to sneak it through during the lame duck session.

Long story shortened - a truly PROPGRESSIVE organization is being born and Sanders will not run it or be involved in it's operation. He's going back to the Senate and Jeff Weaver will lead it. Now many of us don't like Weaver but without him Sanders would never gotten as far as he did. This is a gift to us from Sanders. He's laid the groundwork. Now he says everything is up to us. And it is.

But I'm still voting for Stein, which is another thing. He said all people are welcome, but they MUST support progressive ideas and they must be willing to FIGHT for them. This is not a Sanders organisation and it is NOT promoting the Democratic Party. It is promoting the needs and rights of US.

Ending this now because I can't find my glasses and this post has taken me about a half hour to type on this cursed contraption.

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Lily O Lady's picture

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Amanda Matthews's picture

group (or as it's usually said 'get out shit together).

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

RejectingThe3rdWay's picture

Now many of us don't like Weaver but without him Sanders would never gotten as far as he did.

As Weaver is in the tank for $Hillary, I'm not sure that Weaver actually didn't hold bernie back thereby helping the neo-liberal establishment $Hillary.

I would suggest that Weaver be watched closely to see what he does, because if this is the lefts version of the Tea party being taken over by the Koch brothers I wouldn't want to support that in any way.

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When I was a kid, Republicans used to red scare people, now it's the Democrats. I am getting too damn old for this crap!

Galtisalie's picture

Well said. Solidarity!

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WindDancer13's picture

You might want to check into this program--Free Government Cell Phones.

This program is the only reason I have a phone.

This article gives a bit of background on the program, though the link above is the one you will wwant to choose a program suited to your needs. Something interesting from this article:

Just 54% of people who make less than $30,000 a year connect to the Internet via broadband, compared with 88% of people who make more than $75,000 a year.

This may be something to keep in mind while trying to spread Sanders'/Our Revolution messages.

I liked that Sanders reminded us of the struggles of the past in which people have died to bring about progressive changes. I think the last video that was shown spoke to that also (MLK, etc.). I read or saw something recently that talked about how the people from the 60s did not finish the "job." There was a really good start and some things got done, but then they let their guard down.

I think what Sanders is trying to do is make sure that we don't go to sleep again. If he were to remain in charge of the movement rather than handing it over to us and if something were to happen to him (he is 74 after all), then the movement might peter out much as a lot of the Civil Rights movement did after MLK was assassinated. That is what I call good leadership...teach a person to fish...

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Amanda Matthews's picture

Uses for her music money!

And I agree, he's telling us that there is work to be done and it starts now!

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

WindDancer13's picture

different amounts of minutes, so you can find one that works best for you. the phone is inclueded and different providers offer different types, so it is well worth checking out a couple of providers.

I use enTouch as my Lifeline provider and get 250 minutes a month call/text (not sure if that is each as I don't text) and 10MB/mo of web access--so when I get lost, I am covered. = ) For people who use a lot more minutes, I would recommend also getting Skype. For $60/year, I have unlimited outgoing/incoming nationwide calls with my own phone number.

I also have a very cheap smart phone that I only use to connect via WiFi. I use it for reading books mostly as I can check out tons of books from my local library and through a couple of reading apps. Kroger's carries a number of WiFi-oriented phones, and they are often on sale for about $15. I could put Skype on it, but I really do not talk to enough people to do so, and I have never run out of minutes on the Lifeline phone. I use Skype for calling Comcast. = )

I know it's not a fancy phone system, but when it's the difference of having heat in the winter or food on the table, it works amazingly well. (My total phone expenditures per year is the $60 for Skype.)

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Cassiodorus's picture

This is not a Sanders organisation and it is NOT promoting the Democratic Party.

If Jeff Weaver is running the organization, isn't it pretty much his call as to whether or not the thing is part of the Democrats, or otherwise?

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

Galtisalie's picture

will be Democrats because in most places this will represent the left wing of the possible. But that doesn't make it a Democratic organization any more than DSA is. I certainly won't be putting my energy and dollars into supporting centrist Democrats. Beyond that ballot initiatives are not Democratic per se. And the kindling of local activists to fight for change at the grassroots level will lead to spontaneous acts that won't be directed from above.

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Galtisalie's picture

Here's a MSM piece on "the irony" issue with DSA and its support for Sanders and other candidates that support its goals: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/democratic-socialist...

One could see this kind of "irony" all the way back to factory-owner Engels' devoted support for Marx, pointed out in this MSM article: http://www.economist.com/node/14209490
See also http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-friedrich-engels-radical-lover...

Here's DSA's fundraising page: https://dsausa.nationbuilder.com/donate

This is a little dated about its finances: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/133109557

I do want to see information on how Our Revolution will deal with donor information and whether it will have self-imposed rules that go beyond whatever the minimum requirements are.

By the way, DSA also has a 501(c)3: http://fund-dsausa.nationbuilder.com/about

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orlbucfan's picture

I'm really puzzled by all the negative comments, wailing and gnashing of teeth, etc., etc. I didn't see the Bernster's speech last night as I was too fatigued. We crash early most nights anyway. Smile I refuse to become cynical and give up. Like I wrote over at TPW, there's a BIG difference between being a realist and becoming a cynic. I sure hope the GEN-Xers, and other young folks don't fall into the trap. It's precisely what the yahoos want. REC'D x 100%!!

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Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.

thanatokephaloides's picture

there's a BIG difference between being a realist and becoming a cynic.

False. They are identical, just as they have been ever since the times of Diogenes of Sinope.

The middle letters of the English word "believe" spell LIE. There's a reason for that! Wink

Doubt me here? Then answer this question I posted in another thread:

As a longtime veteran of the American anti-war movement, I can tell you that we've tried everything imaginable -- to exhaustion -- to get "our" country off the eternal war footing and the interventionist "unpaid world policeman" role which demands it. Protesting hasn't worked. Violent "direct actions" haven't worked. Voting hasn't worked. Striking hasn't worked. Monkeywrenching hasn't worked. Hacking (a form of monkeywrenching) hasn't worked. Wikileaks hasn't worked.

My question to you (and everyone else reading this) is: just how do we break the evil spell? How do we break the thrall of the warmongers? What will get us our country back into our hands and not theirs, now?

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

I don't know the answer to your question. I fear there is no answer.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

....... proclaim you an honest man!

Smile

I don't know the answer to your question. I fear there is no answer.

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

tapu dali's picture

I'll let people dig it out for themselves!

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

mimi's picture

because I am a realist and sometimes a humanist and not a cynic. Sorry. And I believe most know in their heart the answer as well.

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Personally, I'd suggest voting against all evil and spreading the word - fast!

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

thanatokephaloides's picture

Personally, I'd suggest voting against all evil and spreading the word - fast!

My plan exactly. I'm getting a lot of pushback from known-progressive loved ones (must vote KKKlinton because scary Trump), but I'm more scared that KKKlinton will start a war with fucking Russia than I am of anything The Chump would be able to do. So I'm voting Stein. Likewise, downballot, I'm voting anti-evil as much as possible (Satan presents himself as an angel of light, et al).

With The Chump, it's a pretty sure bet he'd be a Lame Duck from Day 1. The GOP is still trying to find a way to weasel out from under their nominee, for obvious reasons, even now. KKKlinton would be able to work with Congress, and I'm seriously scared of the results.

I also don't consider anyone a Democrat who would not have been recognized as such in a continuously loyal, never-slaveholding State in 1975. That species of Democrat is almost totally extinct today, as the "FDR/JFK Democrats" continue to DemExit in massive numbers. By this standard Hillary Clinton is still the same old Goldwater Girl she always was, but managed to get a "D" after her name courtesy of Bubba and some poor overworked County Clerk in Bumfuck, Arkansas.

One thing we definitely need to change in this country: All former slavery States, seceders or not, need to do their primary election processes last. Let the States who are un-tainted with that crime against humanity vote first and decide who will be running.

(Pissed off, moi?) Smile

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

WindDancer13's picture

censure the US for its warmongering. Thousands/millions of letters/emails/calls/whatever arriving regularly to the powers around the world as well as to international organizations, the international media and even to the public could start to make a dent. Granted they have their own issues with the global corporate takeover, but I really think that most people around the world do not know what is happening (they need to be informed) or do not know what to do either (we need a global anti-war effort)

Without a draft in place in the US, most people here aren't really aware of the death and destruction this country is causing around the world. During Vietnam, there were almost daily pictures of the body bags of US military being unloaded. Thanks to drones, we are not seeing that now...here, anyway.

The wars need to become personal for most people to decide that something needs to be done. Other than global efforts, we also need to find a way to make it known how these wars personally effect the daily lives and pocketbooks of the everyday citizen. It is possible that a lot of that could be done via social media. Flood the Internet and "small" town independent papers with the facts and educate the people (e.g., the bombs that were dropped today cost the same amount as your city's yearly school budget, and more will be dropped tomorrow.)

As long as other countries put up with or sanction US aggression, the wars will continue. Maybe they need a reminder of just why they are getting swamped by refuges and other problems that are putting their own countries at risk. I can picture many, many days of global anti-war protests, and it is a pleasant picture. Can you see it?

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Late Again's picture

General strike. It increasingly seems to me that this is probably the very last tactic short of violence that's going to have any effect.

Deny them your money, your labor and your participation. What are they gonna do? All the protesters (strikers) are at home, so your tear gas, tasers, guns and LRAD are useless. You can't flashbang every house in the US.

You can't force people into their work places at gun point.
If you can, you still can't force them to work and if you do, there's nothing to prevent the work from being sabotaged. People will always do whatever they can to resist once they have no choice.

I've been waiting twenty years for critical mass to be reached. I think it's close - Bernie woke up a lot of people at once - but I fear we aren't yet there, and organized resistance is going to become exponentially harder quite soon.

The first thing we need - something we should be working on now - is some way to communicate and organize, working as though there's no such thing as the Internet, because there very well might not be if TPP is passed. If we start something now, it will be in place for organizing such a strike when enough people have nothing left to lose.

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"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained." - Mark Twain

Yes, thank you for nailing it so beautifully! And of course the internet has long been targeted and under the hostile corporate take-over, corporations not liking what's said by anyone can simply arrange to cut off internet access to whomever they wish to silence.

Obama's handing control over Domain Names of the US publicly developed and publicly owned internet to private interests already - and as I understand it, (speaking as One Who Knows Nothing About Internet Stuff, of course,) control of this enables sites to be made inaccessible to those searching for them.

(Edit: this could be why so many of the larger once-progressive sites have gone 'corporate/Clinton friendly' - in order to stay on-line at all. Additional edit: and to avoid being sued for insane amounts of money by multiple companies for potentially reducing their future anticipated maximized corporate profits by speaking facts about them and encouraging boycotts.)

Organizing for things like that General Strike and boycotts of those (edit: corporations/companies) involved in the TPP, TTIP and others of that ilk must be done now.

People must also understand that under these, the people, animals and environment have no protections and are deemed to exist only to maximize profits for involved corporations and billionaires.

If people are not aware of what occurs in countries where the people and environment are not protected against corporate predation, they might want to look into it. It's appalling and nothing is done to curb it, except where international outrage and boycots are used. But the international outrage will now be fully occupied in all 'trade deal'-captured countries and as forcefully squelched in industrialized once-democracies as elsewhere - unless the corporate coup is prevented.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Anja Geitz's picture

But I won't be able to join you in this "revolution". I've just learned that the OR organization is being turned into a 501c4 that will limit the very thing Bernie purportedly says he wants to promote. Local races and local grassroots candidates. I'm also having a very difficult time justifying why Jeff Weaver is going to California and meeting with aides of billionaire Tom Steyer. I know this'll sting, maybe a lot, but this doesn't look to me like a "revolution" of getting money out of politics. It looks like the beginnings of a SuperPAC using Bernie's campaign as a marketing tool. And as such, I'm very wary of donating what little money and time I have to pay for Jeff Weavers salary.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

Tom Steyer is trying to promote candidates who want to stop global warming (at least so he says). Out of all the billionaires, he generally seems to be on the useful side of things.

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everything I've seen about Steyer is showing he's on the up and up. He's driven by the urgent need to stop GW. If he wants to give a few million to the cause with the expectation that one of the main items on it's platform is GW then that's great. Or we can sit around and whine about a billionaire helping with Our Revolution's funding even though it appears his hearts in the right place...

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Anja Geitz's picture

When you say he's on the "up and up". More precisely is this: Tom Steyer is a hedge fund manager who is very active with fundraising for Democratic Party and has been an early supporter of Hillary. What appears to be absent in his portfolio of accomplishments is his record on environmental activism. Unless of course you are referring to this:

Steyer co-chairs a group called Risky Business that raises awareness of the projected economic impact of climate change

My whining aside, no one is stopping you from donating your money to this walk like a duck organization. But I think I've earned my right to be skeptical in this clusterfuck of an election.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

promoting electoral candidates a 501c4--which prevents it from working directly with candidates?

The messaging promoting the organization doesn't square with what it can legally do.

Don't really know what they're doing up there. Ballot initiatives, I guess, but why not just say so?

Sorry. There's gotta be better ways to spend my time than this.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

thanatokephaloides's picture

Why is an organization dedicated to promoting electoral candidates a 501c4--which prevents it from working directly with candidates?

The messaging promoting the organization doesn't square with what it can legally do.

I smell lawyers. The kind of lawyers who are lawyer jokes in their own right.

Q. How many lawyer jokes are there?
A. One. This one. All the others are facts.

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

I keep thinking there's something I'm missing here, because it seems so crazy.

A change in the law, perhaps?

Or is it that Brand New Congress is supposed to be the candidate-promoting entity, and Our Revolution is supposed to be....what? A ballot initiative generator?

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

tapu dali's picture

I think you're not far off.

There's room for both.

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

organization, the relentless focus on electoral politics seems misplaced.

Just sayin'.

I guess I just think this was handled badly, and rather confusingly.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Citizen Of Earth's picture

to have the Candidates page on its web site (https://ourrevolution.com/candidates). A violation of 501c4 rules I assume (but I'm not a lawyer). My guess it that will be challenged at some point legally and the page will have to be taken down.

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Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.

Fri, 08/26/2016 - 7:47am — CitizenOfEarth

I'm surprised OurRev is even allowed

to have the Candidates page on its web site (https://ourrevolution.com/candidates). A violation of 501c4 rules I assume (but I'm not a lawyer). My guess it that will be challenged at some point legally and the page will have to be taken down.

If Our Revolution has been co-opted by corporate/Clinton interests, there will be no legal challenge that sticks, any more than with the corporate-favored Bush and Clinton campaigns publicly breaking campaign law - and Bernie may have been giving an indication by continuing to talk about electoral activities OurRev should properly not be able to engage in, before walking away from it. Bernie knows that his supporters will question and think about whatever he does and says which is out of character - and that they will look into things and find out what's going on. Bernie thinks ahead, always - something that we also need to be able to do - and recognize - in order to benefit from/understand whatever hints we may get from him.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

WindDancer13's picture

See my many comments in this essay regarding this.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Thanks, and I did see your much appreciated comments after posting, lol, but left the comment up because of the points about Bernie.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Late Again's picture

taking billionaire money and then turn around and do it yourself. Not only is it rank hypocrisy, it screams 'Establishment tactics!' which naturally leads people to think 'Establishment organization' .

And in my 'discussions' with HRH supporters where they insist there has been no impropriety, I insist right back that there should be no appearance of impropriety, either. How now do I make that argument without it also being hypocritical?

Either we want billionaire money out of our political processes or we do not. It doesn't suddenly become okay because it's a "good" billionaire who wants to contribute to our "side". That's no different than Hillary supporters defending Hillary for the same policies they eviscerated Dubya over.

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"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained." - Mark Twain

Hint: Bernie, evidently under duress, has, with his usual careful phrasing since the stolen nomination, disassociated himself from OurRev and knows darned well that the aware, such as yourself, will have nothing to do with Establishment/corporate/billionaire tactics. He trusts us to know better. Just as he knows that his supporters won't vote Hillary just because he's forced to say so, although there rather bizarrely seems to be a need to warn people off of Trump so that they are, ideally, left voting en masse for the Green Party, the only possible current electoral choice affording any possibility of human survival.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Change Happens from the Bottom UP.

Our revolution is not a bottom UP org.

Brand New Congress is a good database to find a good local candidate to get behind and Push.

But NO organization is going to achieve the change we need

WE are the engines of that change.

Me... Since I live in NYC I focus on pushing the candidates that will work with progressives to effect real change. people like Zephyr. and a whole host of local people running for local offices.. Who RAGE AGAINST THE (NY) MACHINE.

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Orwell was an optimist

Amanda Matthews's picture

And I'll wait until I see how the finances are set up and not go by anecdotal evidence like "I heard".

Do you think there are no wealthy people out there that can understand and be concerned about global warming, inequality, or war? From here on out, if that person is truly a progressive PUSHING for progressive programs and projects and programs I don't care how much money he has. Not a real rich fraud like Buffett or Gates, but someone willing to put their money where it benefits us all is my ally. Sanders lost a rigged primary. There is no more campaign contributions. There is, though, the FUTURE.

Sanders didn't ask for money last night. He didn't ask us to vote for Shillary. He did ask us for something though. He asked us to get off our asses and get to work be on a phone bank, canvassing door to door, or taking it to the streets. Like he said, that is the only way ANYTHING gets done. When the people get fed up and demand it.

There will be other organisations. Good luck!

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Anja Geitz's picture

Paper of record, but I'd hardly call their reporting "anecdotal"

Claire Sandberg, who was the organizing director at Our Revolution and had worked on Mr. Sanders’s campaign, said she and others were also concerned about the group’s tax status — as a 501(c)(4) organization it can collect large donations from anonymous sources

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/25/us/politics/bernie-sanders-our-revolut...

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

and stay focused on the job at hand.

The distraction: OMG JEFF WEAVER... (4)

The job at hand: ELECTING PROGRESSIVES TO CONGRESS..!!!!!!

Period.. End of story

Oh and turn OFF msm... Including the establishment papers of record. It's all corp PROPOGANDA at this point.

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Orwell was an optimist

Anja Geitz's picture

If your ALL CAPS point about electing progressives is your main concern, then why is it a distraction pointing out that OR will be prohibited to do this because of their 501(c)4 tax status?

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

From the job at hand... It's a designed negative... Rather the. A sum positive.

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Orwell was an optimist

WindDancer13's picture

way prohibits campaigning for or supporting candidates is false. See my many posts in the comments section of this essay.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

501c4s are supposed to be social welfare organizations, and here's how the IRS defines their relation to electoral politics:

The promotion of social welfare does not include direct or indirect participation or intervention in political campaigns on behalf of or in opposition to any candidate for public office. However, a section 501(c)(4) social welfare organization may engage in some political activities, so long as that is not its primary activity. However, any expenditure it makes for political activities may be subject to tax under section 527(f).

So yes, they can do some political activities (not defined here) but not as their primary job. Also, the portion of money they use on the political activities may be taxed.

But here's the thing: if you wanted to push progressive candidates down-ballot, why would you choose this particular kind of group? Why not choose a group that makes no restrictions on how you can push a candidate? Why not choose a group that can do that as its fundamental purpose? It makes no damned sense. And if you want an issues-based group, then why all the talk about candidates?

At the very least, the messaging was screwed up around this launch. It's like a Lucas prequel--I have to do a lot of work inventing in my own head the reasons and justifications for what I'm seeing on screen.

And I've got no idea why they thought a 501c4 would be better than a political action committee, which can do BOTH candidacies and issues work, with no restrictions at all.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

WindDancer13's picture

so I guess I will just post the information as no one seems to be willing to read it.

Examples of campaign spending by 501(c)(4)s:

Americans for Prosperity spent $33.5 million overall in 2012 focusing on opposing just a single candidate: Barack Obama.
...
[American Future Fund] More than $11 million was spent to support Mitt Romney.
...

From the same source, in the 2012 general election, 501(c)(4)s spent the following in support or to oppose candidates:
Planned Parenthood $1370143.38 support, $3673691.11 oppose
Patriot Majority USA $708515 support, $1980226.04 oppose
American Action Network $68417.5 support, $6349731.45 oppose
League of Conservation Voters $1316090.65 support, $6691073.24 oppose.
10 more on the list at the site.

Then there is this:

Republican strategist Karl Rove’s creation, Crossroads GPS, organized as a policy and grassroots advocacy organization under section 501(c)4 of the U.S. tax code, is a sister to conservative super PAC giant American Crossroads. According to its 2011 tax forms, Crossroads GPS spent a whopping $19 million on “grassroots issue advocacy” and another $1.6 million on “political direct." One of the group’s latest targets is former Gov. Tim Kaine, D-Va., who is vying for his state's U.S. Senate seat. Crossroads GPS made a $1.1 million ad buy, linking Kaine to President Barack Obama's spending policies, The Washington Post reported. The group is also targeting the president, last week announcing an $8 million TV ad campaign in swing states that criticizes his economic record.

And this:

Campaign fund morphs into social welfare group. President Barack Obama himself spun off a campaign organization into a 501(c)4 group, Organizing for Action (OFA), that is continuing to advocate for his policies. In February, for example, it ran a paid media campaign to pressure 13 Republican members of Congress to support strengthening background checks for gun purchasers. After coming under criticism by reform groups, OFA announced it would voluntarily disclose its donors, but it is only doing so four times a year in an awkward format making it more difficult to analyze. Its first disclosures last month revealed that the big donors are largely familiar faces--half of the two dozen donors who gave at least $10,000 to the OFA were also major bundlers of contributions to Obama's presidential campaign.

.
Apparently many here know so much more about how to organize than Sanders with his 30+ years of experience and his legal advisers, so I might as well save my breath.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

WindDancer13's picture

differences are in the various nonprofit designations. Larry Cohen in the Democracy Now video stated he was not going to go into the legal aspects at the time with Claire Sandberg. He was very diplomatic as he did not tell her she knows nothing.

Lobbying
One fundamental difference between 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4) organizations, is in their ability to freely conduct political or lobbying efforts. These activities include attempts to help pass or repeal legislation, as well as outreach to gain public support or opposition to legislation. 501(c)(3) nonprofits are limited to conducting only "insubstantial" lobbying efforts, determined by the size of the organization. Typically, insubstantial means that you would allocate less than 10 percent of the nonprofits total operating budget. If the nonprofit is found to have engaged in substantial lobbying efforts, it will lose its exempt status. Further, these organizations are prohibited from supporting or endorsing any candidate for public office. By contrast, 501(c)(4) organizations may engage in unlimited lobbying and promotion of candidates, provided that these efforts dovetail with the purpose of the organization.

Political and legislative activities

Political activities, according to the definition in use by the IRS, are defined as actions that participate in the electoral process.[9] The IRS does not consider direct or indirect political influence to be in the domain of promoting social welfare. However, a social welfare organization designated as a 501(c)(4) can engage in some political activity. Unlike the restrictions for 501(c)(3) organizations, 501(c)(4) organizations can legally participate in political activity in support of or opposition to candidates for office. These political activities cannot be the organization's primary activities and cannot be direct donations to a candidate for office or a candidate's committee.[10][11]

The IRS does consider legislative activities, commonly called "lobbying," to be activities that further social welfare purposes.[12] Thus, a 501(c)(4) organization may engage in an unlimited amount of lobbying so long as the lobbying is related to the organization's exempt purpose.[13]

If anyone is interested in how conservative groups are using 501(c)(4)s to finance campaigns and lobby. the following article has some monetary amounts that make sting your eyes: The Political Spending of 501(c)(4) Nonprofits in the 2012 Election

Sanders has been around for a day or two, and I am pretty sure he knows exactly which nonprofit designations will suit the purposes of Our Revolution better than those who are complaining. The media is not going to educate people about these things as they are too busy frothing at the mouth over anything that Sanders does.

An example (one that Claire Sandberg used) is the complaint against Jeff weaver allegedly saying that he would solicit funds from billionaires. If people would stop and think a moment, they might ask themselves just which billionaires are going to donate to an organization that is bound and determined to limit the influence of corporate self-interests? Secondly, there may actually be an honest billionaire or two left in the world. Ben and Jerry are only millionaires, so they don't count. = )

Edited to change an erroneous three (3) to a four (4).

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Thanks! TPTB are so intent on discrediting Bernie - and more importantly the concepts he represents and promotes - that there will be a lot of attempts to do so. Frankly, I mostly haven't had the energy to research things for some time and very much appreciate people bringing facts where I can see them.

But Bernie's proven character indicates that he does not have an ounce of 'sell-out' in him - and that he's a strategist, not a quitter. And I'll base my ideas of what he's capable of on what he's always proven he's capable of, as I will also do with the Clintons, Trump, etc. So if something smells corporate/Clintonesque, it won't be Bernie's idea. And if something is made to appear to smell corporate/Clintonesque, I'll have a pretty good idea of the source there, as well.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

WindDancer13's picture

just the powers that be who are intent on discrediting Sanders. I am having to keep a tight reign on my temper--and believe me it takes one hell of an awful lot for me to get angry--at the lack of factual narrative I have been seeing lately here. (Sorry, small rant...not directed at you at all, but needed to get it off my mind.)

"Bernie's proven character" is something some people seem to have forgotten or have decided to view as a fiction no matter what the facts are. Case in point would be the comments about Sanders just walking away from Our Revolution without anyone considering the laws that state he cannot head or even be on the board of an organization while being a sitting Senator. How blind can people make themselves?

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

My temper "spit the bit" a week ago.

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Solidarity

Anja Geitz's picture

Has been absent since the Convention when he decided to remain silent about the election fraud that took place during the primary. He then endorses the very candidate who stole the election from him and we are left scratching our heads. He invoked the word "Revolution" and all that it implied, giving us license to take back our power from those who oppress us, and then asks us to turn back around and support the very same system he fought against? Pardon me if I'm skeptical about what his motivations are right now and who exactly is running this puppet show.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

WindDancer13's picture

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

when I was on the board of a 501c4. Looks to me like the boundaries of what is legal are defined very hazily, when I juxtapose the text you quoted with the text I just lifted from the IRS. I bet you that it's just like with churches and politics--it's all in the enforcement. If you're a RW church, you can support politicians from the pulpit, and nobody will ever hold you accountable. Watch out if you're a Unitarian though!

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

I was an ex-Bernie supporter and contributor. I am no longer Democrat. Since 7/12/2016 Bernie endorsed Hillary Clinton, I do not believe in Bernie any more.

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As forgiving and trusting as some of you. A lot of time and money was invested in Bernie fighting -not quitting.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

The unrelenting negativity about Bernie that I see here & on other berner sites is so demoralizing.

As far as I'm concerned, he focused our attention last night. We have 2 immediate orders of business to work simultaneously. 1) defeat the TPP. 2) get some progressive folks/initiatives elected in November. The Our Revolution website has been updated & the candidate page is up. I may not have anyone to vote for in Alabama but by golly I can help get people elected in other states. Establish that beach head and then advance.

And yes, I'm still working for Jill stein. I never would have given the Green Party a look if it hadn't been for Bernie.

There's a quote that's been running through my head this past day: "it is better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness." I choose to light a candle.

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Bernie bashing also. I gave way more money than I could afford and made a lot of calls for the Sanders campaign and I don't regret it one bit. Without Bernie their would be no revolution on the horizon. We'd be staring at the same plate of shit. At least he's given us something to focus and work for. I'm with Jill and I too wouldn't have given the Greens a look without Bernie...

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

is conversations being framed in a way that makes it nearly impossible to talk.

Case in point: the idea of Bernie-bashing. Of course, there has been some actual Bernie-bashing on the site, the kind of personality-centered angst that often arises on such occasions. But reducing the criticisms and negative reactions of the site to "Bernie-bashing" is like putting them all in a blender. Suddenly the individual criticisms and whatever evidence or logic they were based on is gone from memory, and what's left is a generalized mush of a vaguely anti-Bernie color and flavor.

Same goes for "whining" or "negativity."

While the relentlessly negative tone on the Net these days is hard to take, and I agree that it's time--maybe past time--for us to focus on something more positive, you can't get rid of criticisms by putting them in a big pile and calling them "whining" or "bashing" or "negativity." Individual criticisms demand an individualized response--dealing with the criticism on its own terms and deciding whether it's valid, or not.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Here's my specific list of themes in Bernie comments that I have no time for:

"Bernie sold out for 30 pieces of silver".

"Bernie woke up with a horse's head in his bed"

"Bernie was a plant"

"Bernie gave up"

I have no time for this. They don't help my blood pressure. Comments deploying these themes are most prevalent at kfs and wotb. I simply can't go there any more.

They are reduced, but still exist, here & at TPW. They flared up in the past 2 days because of the our revolution kefuffle & live stream. Hence my annoyance. What's worse, it's just endless rumor feeding on itself. We don't have facts!

I personally think Bernie should adhere to the FEC campaign donation rules for our revolution. The idea that "oh but these are Good Billionaires" is something I'd expect Hillary, not Bernie, to say. I guess I'm going to have to write to the senator, because there's no contact info for our revolution.

I don't have quite the same feeling about the sanders institute, if it ever gets going. To me, I see that as a democratic socialism think tank, to counter the libertarian Cato institute, whatever the heritage foundation is, etc. a place for fellows to earn a living while they write articles, make tv appearances etc helping to spread the good word about democratic socialism. Somehow I don't gave a problem with a sugar daddy or 2 there. Rationalization, I know.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

…around the time they did what they were paid to do for the Neoliberal Establishment:

...But reducing the criticisms and negative reactions of the site to "Bernie Hillary-bashing"…. you can't get rid of criticisms by putting them in a big pile and calling them "whining" or "bashing" or "negativity."

Conversations framed in a way that makes it nearly impossible to talk.

And, thus, they threw gasoline into the Hillary Dumpster Fire. A lot of voters were blinded by that light. It woke them up and it changed them forever. A lot of people have gone silent. There are fewer bumper stickers and yard signs than ever before. People are pissed that they are afraid to reveal how they are voting, afraid of physical attacks. The unintended consequences, I imagine, will be something to behold.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato

And what happened at TOP is that my complaint is exactly that - my personal complaint. I can't stop you from writing that stuff.

Markos decreed what we could write at TOP and employed/deployed people to enforce it.

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tapu dali's picture

We have 2 immediate orders of business to work simultaneously. 1) defeat the TPP. 2) get some progressive folks/initiatives elected in November. The Our Revolution website has been updated & the candidate page is up.

A 501(c)(4) can be issues-oriented and work for [1].

It CANNOT agitate for specific candidates vs others, so [2] is not permitted.

That's what people are upset about: many thought that OR was going to actively support Progressive candidates of whatever Ilk. But as a 501(c)(4), it can't.

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

WindDancer13's picture

It CANNOT agitate for specific candidates vs others, so [2] is not permitted.

See my long answer a bit above. People are swallowing he bait again without doing the necessary research and pushing a destructive narrative. It is a sign of the negativity toward Sanders to not think for a moment that he--after 30 plus years--does not know which type of organization will work best for a progressive agenda.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

I was on the board of a 501c4 in 2009. Unless the law has changed since then--and maybe it has--you cannot support candidates. That's the difference between a 501c4 and a political action committee.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

WindDancer13's picture

that can be formed under the rules of a 501(c)(4) including associations of employees as well as social welfare groups. The organization's stated purpose makes a huge difference in its work with campaigns. At the risk of repeating myself indefinitely, I believe that Sanders and his legal advisers know exactly what this type of organization can or cannot do and would not start out by hamstringing the movement.

If you listened to his broadcast, you may have noticed that he spent a lot of time discussing ballot measures and other activities beyond campaigns. This would indicate that this is a much broader organization than just elections and will be in keeping with the requirements of a social welfare group as long as there is no excessive campaign involvement, but that is Brand New Congress's focus, so working with like groups is vastly important rather than duplicating efforts.

From a 2003 IRS publication (pdf):

IRC 501(c)(4), (c)(5), and (c)(6) organizations may engage in political
campaigns on behalf of or in opposition to candidates for public office provided
that such intervention does not constitute the organization's primary activity.

Meanwhile, in the link I provided in my previous comment, you will find that there are plenty of 501(c)(4)s that contribute to campaigns. From that article:

Overall, dark money groups reported $300 million in independent expenditures in 2012. Of the 50 groups who spent the most, 15 are 501(c)(4) nonprofits. Using our Follow The Unlimited Money tracker, Political Ad Sleuth, Ad Hawk and return on investment calculations, here is how they made an impact in the race for the White House and Congress.

Please note that Americans for Prosperity spent $33.5 million overall in 2012 focusing on opposing just a single candidate: Barack Obama.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

If that's true then the Dems will have to try and pass it next year when they control the Senate. And will the Tea-GOP House go along? The Party of NO may rescue us.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

Thu, 08/25/2016 - 8:04pm — rmwarnick

I read that Mitch McConnell says TPP won't get a Senate vote

If that's true then the Dems will have to try and pass it next year when they control the Senate. And will the Tea-GOP House go along? The Party of NO may rescue us.

They are a corporate/billionaire representing party, so I wouldn't like to bet on it. Do they or their owners/funders have the sense to realize that these corporate coups kill off not only their golden goose but their life support system in very short order? Many Republican officials claim to not believe in evolution or any science their backers don't like because they reveal facts having the potential to interfere with their profiteering at all cost - to all others.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

tapu dali's picture

This looks to me like a very Machiavellian move on McConnell's part.

If one has a Hillary Presidency and a Democratic Senate, will H push for a "No" vote, as she claims she wishes, or not? Will she veto TPP?

If she doesn't, then shouts of "Hypocrisy" could well arise across the Political Spectrum, and H will be shown out, very early in her Presidency, as having been full of b.s. during her candidacy.

Many Democrats will very likely revolt.

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

We have already been shown Hillary's true colours - and she won't care any more as President than as a Presidential candidate that voters don't trust her for darned good reason. She'll have conned/invented enough votes to get into office and to hand over the powers delegated by The People to various public offices in government/Justice intended to serve the public interest to hostile self-interests under cover of 'trade deals', to become corporate management of the American assets, human and otherwise. And as long as they need her, she'll be rolling in money and whatever power they allow her.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Allowing considerations of the OR tax status to circumscribe or define the purpose of a 'revolutionary' political organization runs counter to the very notion of revolutionary organization. Seriously people, if we want to break away from the limitations of a two party system and the oligarchy that maintains it, why are we even considering limiting the scope of the organization's activities to provide tax relief for contributors?

Bernie's primary run was funded largely by millions of small donors like myself, many of whom pay little or no Federal Income tax. The tax deductibility of those contributions means nothing to those who are not in need of additional tax deductions.

The focus on tax deductibility is a tell, and what it tells me is that OR is moving away from the people powered grass roots organization that shocked the establishment with it's power and commitment to social and economic justice, becoming just one more tax dodging organization holding it's beggars bowl out for the alms of those who have more than they need.

The oligarchs can not be expected to fund their own demise, so why are we stuck on the importance of providing tax deductibility at the cost of limiting the organization's activities?

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Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes

WindDancer13's picture

limited in what can be deducted. The movement needs a central organization. If we have not learned by now that a hundred progressive groups going off in myriad directions is not working well for us, we had better learn it soon. The Republicans learned that lesson quite sometime ago which is why they have been so successful in taking over state governments.

There is also the issue of paying the salaries of people to hold the organization together. While people may be willing to donate to specific candidates or causes, it will be much harder to get them to fund the organization that brings it all together, so a strictly grassroots funding mechanism will not work.

See my long answer further up the thread on the fact that a 501(c)4 is the correct designation for this type of organization...and give Sanders some credit for knowing what he is doing.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

I assumed incorrectly that it was primarily about deductibility for contributors rather than the structure of the organization and overhead expenses.

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Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes

Sick of playing the Sanders' guessing game. As far as I'm concerned, the game's over. Once you gain my trust, then lose it by doing the opposite of what you say you are going to do, you'll never regain it again. The man called for a "revolution", but really didn't mean revolution because he quit. He didn't call out the fraud, and that makes him a fraud. How can Bernie expect us to fight for some amorphous, leaderless thing, when he won't fight? Fool me once, yadda, yadda, yadda!

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Sick of playing the Sanders' guessing game. As far as I'm concerned, the game's over. Once you gain my trust, then lose it by doing the opposite of what you say you are going to do, you'll never regain it again. The man called for a "revolution", but really didn't mean revolution because he quit. He didn't call out the fraud, and that makes him a fraud. How can Bernie expect us to fight for some amorphous, leaderless thing, when he won't fight? Fool me once, yadda, yadda, yadda!

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lunachickie's picture

Sanders Sold Out motif here is getting fairly tedious and banal. While everyone is entitled to their opinion, that's an opinion that simply is not based in fact. Nobody's "guessing" here. The guy tried to beat the corrupt at their own game and he got "beat". Now he's been marginalized and has been compelled to start tap-dancing on fucking cue--anyone who can't see that and continues to insist "he was always a fraud" can't possibly be arguing in good faith, because by accusing him of always being a fraud, you are removing faith from the equation from start to finish. .

Period.

One more time for the folks in the back of the room--Bernie Sanders' candidacy being upended and marginalized because others fucking cheated and stole his ballots and threatened him doesn't make him the sellout. For the love of FSM, if you're going to keep crying about how he done you so wrong, can you please at least come up with something more original?

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lunachickie, I need to add another million virtual recs to the enormous pile I'd like to have given you and can't, since it's only one per comment.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Your naive imaginings about "Bernie being threatened" are more tedious than my dealing with the facts (what he said, did, and how he treated his delegates in Philli), plus you can't prove the "threats" are real. And, I don't scream insults at those whose opinions differ from mine. I you can't handle this and refrain from cursing, you need to get therapy.

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