Last Night I Spoke to Ashley Wolthuis, Bernie Delegate Behind Claim Sanders Was Coerced to Endorse Hillary
Yesterday, on Twitter and Facebook a post was making the rounds that Bernie had been "threatened" by the Clinton campaign" with losing all the concessions he achieved on the DNC platform, unless he endorsed Clinton. Here is a screenshot of the text of that post:
Last night, after reaching out to many of the people who had either posted or tweeted this statement, I tracked down the original source, Ashley Wolthuis, a Sanders delegate from Utah, who was kind enough to return my "cold call" to her cell phone. Here is what she told me.
The basic thrust of the post shown above is accurate, she said, but the use of the term that Bernie was "threatened" she explained was overblown. She did indeed have conversations with various delegates associated with both campaigns, and she said it was "common knowledge" among most delegates that the Clinton campaign was insisting on Bernie making an endorsement prior to the convention if the more progressive parts of the platform would be retained. The talk among her the those with whom she associated, both Clinton and Sanders supporters, was that Bernie understood Hillary needed Sanders' supporters and that was the only reason she made any concessions at all regarding the positions on the DNC platform for which the Sanders campaign fought.
So, yes, Bernie made the decision to "endorse" her yesterday. However, in her view, Sanders ambushed Hillary on stage with the speech he gave, which forced her to, as I said yesterday in my video, give a "Bernie Sanders speech." She directed me to read this article by Chris Cillizza in the Washington Post, which she felt best explained what happened on that stage the two of them shared yesterday.
[A]ll of the speeches Sanders delivered up until today's in Portsmouth were aimed at explaining to Democratic voters why he would make a better nominee than Hillary Clinton. The speech today was, ostensibly, an endorsement of Clinton's presidential campaign.
But, really, it wasn't. Yes, I know that's how it was billed by the Clinton and Sanders camps. And, yes, he did say this: "I have come here to make it as clear as possible as to why I am endorsing Hillary Clinton and why she must become our next president." (It was the only time that Sanders used the words "endorse" or "endorsing" in a speech that ran 2,161 words...) [...]
... Clinton stood by his side throughout this recitation of his successes, nodding her head politely with a smile etched on her face. But it's hard to imagine that she or her campaign team were thrilled with Sanders touting just how well he had done — and how much better than everyone expected! — as the lead-in to his long-awaited endorsement.
But, surely, Sanders was simply touting his successes as a way of winding up to the big moment when he acknowledged — even subtly — that Clinton's more moderate, cautious and pragmatic definition of "Democrat" had trumped (ahem) his more liberal, populist one?
Nope! Not really. What followed in the speech was a laundry list of Sanders's talking points and policies supplemented with the phrases "Hillary believes" or "Hillary understands" or "Hillary knows" stuck in front of them.
According to Cillizza, Clinton put up with all of this because she knew she needed Sanders endorsement of her, though I also cannot imagine that she was very happy with the tone and content of Bernie's speech. Certainly that was what Ms. Wolthuis took away from what happened at that event yesterday.
Then she spoke to me about the conference cal that Bernie had with his delegates last night. Audio of the call, which can be heard here. But here are the main points of what he told his delegates, as Ms. Wolthuis stated to me,m and which mahakali_overdrive2 posted online at the Kossacks for Sanders reddit:
1. Sanders did not suspend his campaign. He said "absolutely there will be a roll call vote" at the convention, and he wants all his delegates at the convention to vote for him. Said the he and other of his surrogates will speak at the convention.
2. He praised the work of his representatives in obtaining significant changes to the platform that Clinton and DNC representatives opposed.
3. He said that he "knew the math." In other words, he knew he could not win the nomination in light of Clinton's lead in delegates and super delegates, but that he did not intend to give up the fight to advance progressive causes.
5. Said that within the "coming weeks" he will announce successor organizations to his campaign with the sole purpose of continuing the "political revolution" and promoting progressive causes and candidates in all fifty states. Does not want the energy of the progressive agenda to wither away. Said he will remain as figurehead of the movement, and that he will run again for his seat in the Senate in two years.
6. Said progressives need a 50 state policy to win back not only Congress, but also state houses and governorships from Republicans, and for that reason that he intends to support progressives both logistically and financially. Said he hopes to endorse, campaign for and support at least 100 progressive candidates in this election cycle, if not more.
7. He said his main goal in the short term was to fight to transform the Democratic party into a grassroots party and not a party controlled by big money donors. Said Democrats need less super delegates and more open primaries and much less dependence on big money donors. If this cannot be won in the Rules Committee, he will fight for it on the floor of the convention.
8. Said the after the convention, he believes Trump must be defeated and that will be his major effort, despite the big differences between Clinton and Sanders on many issues. Said he wants for personal reasons to have a Democratic Party majority in the Senate and House after the election.
9. Said he got Clinton to agree on the record to support free tuition for students attending public universities for families earning less than $125,000 per year. And also a program to help with student debt.
10. On health care coverage, he got Clinton on the record to commit to a "public option" under the ACA and a "opt in" for Medicare for people 55 years old or older. Also he said she agreed to double funding for community health centers, which includes dental care, mental health care and low cost prescription drugs for 15-20 million people across the country.
11. Regarding his campaigning for Clinton, said that part has not been worked out yet.
12. On TPP, he says it should not come up in the lame duck session. Says our job is make all current elected Democratic Senators and Representatives to openly oppose the TPP. Wants Clinton to more forcibly oppose it. Said we have to wage a national fight with every ally we can find, even with those Republicans who have doubts about it, to stop the TPP from being passed in the lame duck session. We need as much pressure on Obama as possible.
Sanders delegate Ashley Wolthuis was very upbeat after getting off the conference call last night. She was especially pleased to hear that Sanders will continue to head up the fight for progressive change and a political revolution, and in her words "remain a thorn in the side of the Democratic Party."
For me, I will wait to see what happens at the convention, but I will not vote for Trump or Clinton in my state of New York. In any case, I am glad to hear that Bernie has not given up the fight for a political revolution.
Comments
I have a feeling Ed Rendell is gonna get some shit
on him before Sanders is done with him at the convention. Ain't too many people on Sanders' shit list, but I'll guarandamntee you that bloviating asshole shot straight to the top with his demand that Sanders do both at once.
Regardless....yeah, he's doing it:
It's a pity so many revolutionaries are bailing on the guy, they're gonna miss the best part...
Hi lunachickie,
I'm not familiar with Rendell's part in this.
As far as revolutionaries bailing, I think most everyone is confused as to what is going on. I don't know if there was a way for Bernie to be more forthcoming, but the comments from him and his campaign people over the last few weeks have been cryptic.
He says he did not suspend, but the Secret Service has ended its protection of him. According to one article I read, the campaign confirmed this. So, he's not a candidate, except in the case of keeping his delegates, he is. It's not surprising to me that some of his delegates don't understand, and might not go to the expense and time to attend the convention.
Reports have it that Rendell ordered Sanders to endorse
or the DNC was going to enforce their rule to this end, strip his delegates and disallow him from the convention.
The comments from his people are all filtered through either social media or American television. When do we stop taking them all at face value?
We've got to get our sources straight. Let me find that Rendell piece. Yes, I see there's confusion, but I am not seeing the confusion among his DELEGATES. They actually seem to have a handle on what's going on. It's the rest of these bloggers and Facebook/Twitter holics going hog wild and spewing unchecked bullshit that "he sold out". No, he didn't sell out. He hedged his bet.
Too bad it revealed that far too many of us don't have the stomach for an actual revolution while he's in the middle of it. Too many are coming all unglued, and the irony is that most of them are coming unglued at reading CNN and MSNBC. Who are both patently and demonstrably full of all kinds of shit.
Secret Service
You know, I just remembered I saw a brief clip on tv this morning with Bernie commenting on his new lack of SS protection. I think it was on the CBS morning show with Charlie Rose. He was asked about it, and said at least he didn't have to tell someone every time he had to go to the bathroom any more. He then commented on what a great job they did. So, anyway, that part is confirmed.
I haven't called him a sell out. My comments have been just trying to figure out the campaign that has ended but has a candidate who is still running.
I can confirm this confirmation.
Living in Burlington, these things are easily confirmed visually.
Had Rendell done that it would have lost the election
First of all I believe he is stupid enough to have threatened such a move. Secondly did he not understand that 45% of the Dems voted for Bernie? That they'd be furious with the Dems for pulling such a stunt? Thirdly, having someone like Rendell be in a position to make such a threat is more evidence that the Dem Party is a monster. People like Hillary, Bill, Rendell, Debbie and their little helpers who hate Bernie so much that good Progressive wins are called victories for "the Elizabeth Warren Wing", as if Bernie doesn't exist, are not people I'm going to associate with.
I believe he was ordered not to release
his delegates because then they wouldn't show up at the convention and that would embarrass Hillary at her coronation.
I know if I was a delegate, after yesterday, I wouldn't waste my money and time to go to the convention for nothing.
Hmmm, interesting, Shirley.
She has enough delegates to win without Bernie's so I wouldn't think she'd care. Maybe it does look bad if she doesn't get a big number. Don't know about this.
Yes, it's the number I was talking about. Too many empty
seats will look bad for her.
Do we have a source for that?
Still looking for the Rendell bits...
is this what you are looking for?
or do you look for a video of Rendell saying what is reported in this article:
Clinton allies try to entice Sanders with prime-time convention slot - The public push for Sanders to wrap up his campaign came after the Vermont senator dodged an opportunity to concede. - By Annie Karni - 06/17/16 01:49 PM EDT
or this?
Clinton Surrogate Ed Rendell: Sanders Needs To Tone Down Attacks & Start A PAC After Today
or this ?
Clinton Surrogate Ed Rendell: Sanders Supporters Better “Behave Themselves” At The DNC audio
or this here:?
[video:https://youtu.be/6yZsZKCKUHA]
https://www.euronews.com/live
Tragically, Bernie is now Hillary's/the 1%'s TOOL!
Not really
but if all these breathless proclamations are making a few of you feel better, well, don't let me stop you. Everybody grieves in their own way.
Those of you doing it before the body's even cold, though? Rethink that, please.
Lunachickie, remember the movie "Moonstruck"?
Remember when Cher's character slaps the guy in the face and says "SNAP OUT OF IT"? Well, that's what happened yesterday to me and many thousands of people. I'm not under the political illusion spell any longer. If you want to believe in this farce presented by the 1% then go right on living the lie. That is your choice.
I'm gonna say this one more time
please actually READ what you're responding to. Nowhere do I ever say I'm going along with this 1% farce. It's not what I am saying and it's not what I am doing. The man had no fucking choice yesterday.
What part of B do you not understand? HE HAD NO CHOICE IF HE WANTED TO GET TO THE CONVENTION. Did you or did you not want to see him there?
Further, once he actually gets his foot in the front door on onto the stage in front of cameras, he has exactly NO MORE LEFT TO LOSE.
Jesus Christ in a holy handbasket, please dial back the drama and start using your brain. He accomplishes NOTHING if he doesn't get his ass inside that convention hall. NOTHING.
don't worry, must people know that drama is just a theater play,
... oh the grief ... it's killing me ... /s
https://www.euronews.com/live
yup
thank you, luna! (sorry I havent been around here much but Im with you)
OMG. He was a democratic candidate with
1,900 delagates. No effin way they would have locked him out of the convention. You say you want a revolution, watch what would have happened if they tried to lock him out if he hadn't given in to their extortion.
You think not?
All 1900 delegates he got belong to him until either he concedes and ends his campaign, wins, or has the DNC strip them.
If you think for one minute that the DNC wouldn't have locked him out, you're giving them way too much credit. They've been cheating, openly. They would do anything to get rid of him.
Lunachickie, chill my friend. You don't know me and I don't
you --- I'll say that again. I haven't read every fucking word you've written here, okay. Your condescending tone is insulting. I am not a drama queen! I am not a fake! I don't pretend to hurt when I actually hurt. I don't suppose you read my diary yesterday, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I was not trying to be mean when I asked you about the Moonstruck movie, and I apologize if my comments insulted you --- that was not my intention! I was actually trying to lighten the mood a little, but I guess I misjudged the moment, and I didn't see some of your other comments. It isn't necessary for you to speak to me the way you are.
Wow so glad I saw this. Puts everything into a much more
Believable context.
I got Bernie's email and I read the transcript of the delegate conference call and nothing made sense with what I saw in the joint appearance.
I think "threatened" is probably the RIGHT word to use for what must have happened behind the curtains. hell, AHS like rendell have been issuing threats right out in the open... Like if Bernie doesn't endorse he gets NO speaking spot at the convention. (Which I was ok with because Bernie already has a permit to hold an outdoor rally).
Must admit I was a bit disheartened by yesterday's event but committed to continue the fight to break up the NY machine power hold on NY electoral politics (please vote for and donate to zephyr Teachout)
I was also heartened to hear Bernie confirm there WILL be a first ballot at the convention and Bernie is asking ALL his delegates to remain committed to him in that vote.. This is an in your face reminder. To the party elite, that a YUGE number of democrats are with BERNIE and the progressive platform and we ain't going away.
I am now of the belief that Bernie WILL campaign vigorously for a democratic victory... But he will do it while continuing to give a version of his very progressive stump speech. the party may well regret bringing Bernie into the fold as an endorser lol
#not politiciansUS
Orwell was an optimist
Great comment, thanks for sharing.
I think it's quite possible that you are onto something with that one.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
I don't give a rat's ass about the platform
Bernie is acting like every other politician, talk a good talk but in the end stick with the party. He could have waited until the convention, let the vote go as it will including the platform. If we had lost the platform and his nomination, he should have gone Independent. We had enough people and resources. But instead I watched a man that I believed in use the Boogieman Trump card. If I had wanted to vote for Hillary, I would have done that in the first place. I will never vote for Hillary, no matter who endorses her. I will not give money to the DNC. I will not support candidates who support the establishment. I don't give a rat's ass about preserving the platform, because Hillary WILL NEVER honor it.
What you may not be factoring in to the equation is that
by doing what he did the way he did it, and getting as much progressive stuff into the meaningless platform as possible that his most likely goal, or expectation, was not to get them to actually pursue it, but to be able to shine a spotlight on the fact that they are not Walking the Talk.
It will give the movement even more ammo to utilize to sway our progressive, but conned, progressive friends in the Democrats to get them to join the movement.
Bernie is by any definition one smart mofo and I think he is thinking 3 or 4 moves ahead on this.
It took me a lot of pondering and thought (as well as quite a bit of Bourbon and Scotch) before I was able to come down from my anger and disappointment and try to look at what the potential political upsides would be for his action and the more I do the more I think he may have made the right decision after all.
For those of us that are not privy to the information he is, as well as generally having the lack of how things work behind the scenes to so quickly judge him and assign the worst possible motives for his actions is at best hubristic.
So I beseech my fellow C99P peeps. please lets give it a little time and see what actually happens before we go all Clintonite and start throwing good people under the bus.
We are on the same team, and Bernie is still the Captain of it as far as I am concerned right up until he says he no longer wants to be.
I fully expect Bernie to use the political Acumen he has accrued during this primary to continue to work towards building the movement in preparation for the 2018/20 election cycles.
This man has always been a fighter on our side, don't write him off over what MAY be one bad call on the field. (And like I said, I am not certain after further review that the call was bad, I am reserving judgement on that decision, but not the man.)
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Hawk-Eye camera shows the ball In, or Out?
(Tennis metaphor - if the ball touches the line by even 1 mm, it's "In".)
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
It may be on sale, but I'm not buying it.
Hillary made concessions on platform issues — positions that she does not hold or believe in, positions the she would have never proposed on her own — in exchange for Bernie's endorsement prior to the convention?
Her concessions were to human decency and human rights for a population in severe distress — damned few of them — and Hillary was kicking and screaming "Noooo!" the entire time. But she was forced to agree not to impose a lifetime of indentured servitude on young Americans who dares go to college when they are not wealthy. This is one example of of an issue she very reluctantly compromised on. And Hillary only did these distasteful things in exchange for Bernie's endorsement.
So, we are all clear on the fact that the party platform is not binding on any democrat elected to office? Am I right?
And yet this delegate touted the fact that Bernie:
Beside the fact that college tuition support should not be means tested (subsidize colleges not kids); and beside the fact that we want universal health care, not a public option — who is dumb enough to fall for this "on the record" baloney? How many days before Obama betrayed his promises? Two?
So the point of this entire exercise is to elect more and better Democrats in the future?
It's easy to criticize, of course. This may be what progressives deserve.
Or this could all be an innocent mishmash of wishful thinking and projection.
(I'm more concerned with the Neocon preamble that Hillary put in the platform.)
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
And I started to wonder last night that IF
she goes for a public option to ACA, I'd bet she can hamstring that up like with Medicare Part D? Make it so that the public option negotiates nothing in the way of price reductions using it's economy of scale, and just lets it "compete" with private, for profit insurance, thereby massively increasing our debt as I highly doubt she'll really tackle high end tax rate increases. And sure, while people will be insured and that is a good thing, how long is that sustainable if you don't rein in the costs or raise the taxes necessary to pay for it? And we're still subsidizing a profit margin.
As for the college tuition, I wonder there too - how long before she just says it can't be done, and sure, we'll renegotiate the interest rate on your college debt but we won't reduce the debt. I put nothing past them anymore either.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
So true.
There are very few nations on earth that do not have national heath care systems. Even the very poorest have national health care clinics. They are all sustainable because they must be. They do not turn them off and let the people die of medical neglect. That only happens in the US. There are an abundance of economic models for the US to build from.
Perhaps the most sickening thing I witnessed during the primaries was when Chelsea made a brief appearance to slam Bernie for wanting National Heath Care for the American people. The Clintons apparently have a congenital brain defect where dead tissue envelops the empathy lobes.
As for college tuition and student loans, another disgrace that comes from ending a national investment in human capital, the first generation of retirees signing up for social security are also still paying on college loans. The government simply slashes their monthly benefits to accelerate the student loan re-payments, hurtling them into dire poverty.
That's this week's episode of "Life on the Plantation."
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
Analysis of Bernie's body language during 'endorsement'
Bernie Sanders’ Body Language Says He Angrily and Reluctantly Endorses Hillary Clinton
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Fox news does a lot of reports on body
language, too.
Well, as someone that had to study deception as part of his
career, I can indeed say that for those that can read it body language can be way more informing than the actual words coming out of the individuals mouth.
Even those that are skilled in it and know what the tells are cannot avoid them because they are largely autonomic, they happen without any cognitive awareness or control.
There are many good books out there that can help understand deception and the "tells" that come along with it. Some are hogwash written by amateurs, but others, which also tend to be the more dry and boring reads, are very, very informative.
Many people read body language without even being aware they are doing so. Ever get that impression of someone right after meeting them and even though you don't know them at all "Something" trips a warning buzzer in your head that says, "This person is off or something."?
That was you subconsciously picking up non-verbal indicators most likely. and I bet it was seldom wrong in it's assessment.
Maybe that is why so many of us have such a visceral reaction to Clinton, We sense the "offness" that comes from her words not matching her body language and we are picking up on the deception either consciously or sub-consciously.
Just my thoughts on the subject though as while I know a bit about the topic, I make no claims to being even close to an expert.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Firm believer in nonverbal indicators.
One of my college roommates took a class with Joe Tecce, leader in "blink theory," who analyzed Bush during the first Gulf War.
http://newspapers.bc.edu/cgi-bin/bostonsh?a=d&d=bcheights19910422.2.43
Interesting. Thanks for that link.
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
Looks to me like he got enough "committment" from her that
he can feel free to call her a liar to her face when she weasels out of it.
That won't change much overall, but I'm gonna enjoy the hell out of seeing that. Because I know I will
Thanks for the investigative reporting, Steven. It will be
interesting to see what Bernie means by "successor organizations to his campaign." Something like Dean's "Democracy for America?" Or Obama's "Organizing for Action?"
IMO, the Progressive Movement doesn't need yet another organization asking for donations. It needs a path toward unity.
I can't help but think of the Judean People's Front, the People's Front of Judea, the Judean Popular People's Front, and the Popular Front in "The Life of Brian."
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4]
"All Life is Problem Solving" - Karl Popper
I can't find the source
but I read somewhere this morning that one org was for policy, another for recruiting progressive candidates, and a third for voter registration and election fraud.
Sorry I don't have a source Alex. Well, I found one with one of them:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/12/to-furth...
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Bernie sold us out
Bernie Sanders sold us out, there is no other way to look at it rationally.
And what did he gain?
Seriously, what concessions were gained? I would like to know.
The lesson that I and many others have learned is that their is no political solution to our current mess.
Progressive, Independent, Gnostic, Vermonter.
I would say no partisan
political solution. The political revolution he engendered will have to be out of the duopoly which owns and runs both party's in the US. People throughout history have managed to bring down the oligarchical collectivists when they go to far. It is up to us, the people, globally. Corbyn managed today to hold his position despite the backstabbing New Labour, Blairite MP's holding a 'secret' vote to kick his socialist ass of the ballot. The austerity loving New Labour MP's say they are going to beat him 'fair and square' in the election. One thing you have to admit is that hillary did not beat Bernie 'fair and square' in this rigged fixed primary. The fact that the D party has not yet even convened to pick their candidate reveals that the fix was in all along.
I still do not understand the
I still do not understand the platform fight. It is purely symbolic and I cannot remember a candidate of either party that runs on the platform. It is touted for one night at the convention and forgotten about. There have been times when a reporter will ask a candidate a " gotcha" question about the platform and the candidate wiggles away.
In my opinion he cashed in a lot of political capital for a few planks in a platform. I think there was an offer of the chairmanship of the committee of his choice if they win the senate. He could get more done in that position.
It's a distraction, intended to assuage folks, IMO. EOM
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
The endorsement was a mistake.
As much as they try to walk it back, make excuses, say it's not over, blame Hillary, etc., they can't undo this blunder.
The bottom line is the Bernie campaign simply didn't anticipate the huge blowback and are now seeing all their hard won support evaporate in one brief moment.
If he really wanted maximum support at the convention, he should have held out. If he wanted more concessions on the platform, he should have held out.
Instead he pulled a Kucinich, sacrificing long term movement politics for short term transactional trifles, and in the process has lost a lot of the trust that was essential to the success of his campaign.
He may continue to support Progressive candidates. He may continue to fight for progressive causes.
But in the eyes of many of his supporters he is no longer the hero willing to go down swinging for his beliefs, which in the end makes him just another DC pol who talks a big game but delivers very little.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Thank you for your comment.
You hit the nail on the head so to speak.
"Trust." That's exactly it. I hadn't thought of that word since yesterday until you mentioned it.
I can no longer trust him, which makes me very upset, sad, and again demoralized.
For example, say he campaigns for Tim Canova, the primary election is August 30, but he is again extorted by people in the DNC and then endorses DWS.
No, I cannot and will not ever trust him again. I feel horrible about that.
Yes, Shirley, I am with you my friend!
I feel horrible about losing trust in Bernie, as well. This such a tragedy! So, very, very sad!
So you wanted to send him packing for good yesterday, then?
The DNC rules are theirs to do as they see fit. Sanders agreed to play by them. Why is this so hard for some of you to get??? What he did yesterday is meaningless wordsalad, and now he got his foot in the door in Philly.
But no, according to some,
What complete nonsense. Had Bernie Sanders refused to say the word "endorse", the DNC would have taken his delegates and kept him out of the convention.
Those of you who think they wouldn't do that are deluded. They WANTED him to tell them to fuck off. And then it would all be over RIGHT NOW.
I guess that's what you wanted, though.
Nonsense
Let them try. Hillary needs Bernie a lot more than he needs her.
If the DNC pulled a stunt like that at the Convention, the resulting controversy (in front of a national TV audience no less) would have clobbered any chance of Hillary garnering ANY remaining support from Berners.
Hillary & Co. knew that, which is why they put so much pressure on him for a pre-Convention endorsement.
Bernie should have called her bluff and take the fight to the convention - like he promised us all he would.
Instead, in one fell swoop he pissed away all his hard won leverage for token planks and hollow promises.
Bernie ran a great campaign and did a lot of good things in the process, but in the end he caved at the very worst time, and has done a lot of needless damage to the movement as a result.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
So you wanted him to take that chance?
And what would you say if they'd called his bluff and HE LOST IT? You'd be pissed and you'd be SORRY. And then you'd say he was a dumbass and didn't want the job. And he would have FINISHED the movement that HE started FOR US.
I swear, some of you are just looking for reasons to give up. I don't want to believe that, but this information is readily available, and if y'all would stop jumping to conclusions and use your heads, you'd see it, you'd get it, and you would stop this infernal spread of nonsense in your disappointment.
It is OK and EXPECTED that there is disappointment. But the bailing means either you were never serious, you didn't understand the depth of the cheaters and to what length they would go to preserve their monopoly, or you don't have what it takes to participate in a revolution. If you fold at the first sign of duress, you're not ready to be part of one.
If he had lost her bluff?
He'd be a national hero.
I have no idea where you are coming from. How do you interpret my wanting Bernie to keep fighting as me wanting to give up?
Look, I believe Bernie's endorsement of Hillary was a grave political mistake, OK? I also believe as time goes on the results of that mistake will become even more painfully apparent.
But why you keep attacking my motives for believing that is beyond me, and frankly, I don't appreciate it.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Let's make something crystal clear here
I am not attacking YOU or your MOTIVES. I am attacking some of your words, because they are gravely wrong:
That is purely suggestive of the idea that you haven't been paying attention to anything other than the MSM that lies to you every hour on the hour, 24/7. Bernie Sanders would not be a "national hero" if Ed Rendell managed to call in his delegates and bar him from the convention. That is ridiculous. He'd be out, done, with no delegates and nothing to say at the convention.
He said he was going to the convention. He's going to the convention. Stay home and sulk if you want, that's your prerogative. Have an opinion, we all do. But the man made a choice that he could not avoid anymore. If you don't respect it, fine, but don't make shit up about him.
The endorsement was stupid and couterproductive.
Sorry you disagree.
Bernie did piss away his leverage, and it's not 'making shit up' to say so.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Well he obviously pissed away his leverage with you (smile but
After pondering all this for the last 24 hours.. Reading comments on various blogs.. Re watching the unity event, reading his email to his supporters and then the transcript of his conference call with his delegates lSt night I have a different view of things... And think, by getting the party ON RECORD, on a number of platform issues and then saying he and the progressives on the platform committee have reached all the goals they can and then appearing w/her and getting HER on record as supporting. The platform he has the leverage to push candidates and then to push legislation... And he is asking US to stay strong and stay focused o. The real goals .. Which has never been the presidency but the Path the party and the country takes going forward. If this is the play he has made I, personally, thinks it's brilliant and that Bernie may have actually increased his leverage.
Will be HARD for HRC to walk away from the hard fought platform issues if She wants BERNIE to be a surrogate and the Clinton wing obviously thinks it needs Bernie... and if Bernie is as he says. Going to be campaigning in "every corner of the country" and he does it by giving a version of his stump speech. OMG. It's just brilliant.
If this is what's going on Bernie may have just backed the entire party establishment into a damned if you do and damned if you don't corner... With no way for them to render him irrelevant since HRC has already sung his and our praises to the high heavens. Lol
Orwell was an optimist
Bernie stumping for Hillary...
will be far more damaging to the Progressive movement and its goals than him not stumping for her.
And if you think anything Bernie says to voters during the election will have any influence on Hillary or the Dems after the election, you really haven't been paying attention these last thirty years.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
He's going to the convention as a cheerleader
for Hillary. We already saw the coming attractions. Please stop trying to tell everyone who they are and what they stand for. I think you're just being rude.
I think it's just as rude
to come in here and piss all over everything the man does and did with what appears to be endless heart-rending hyperbole:
Think what you want. Your revolution is over. Some of us would like to continue, if you don't mind.
I'll say what I think. Thank you.
And I'll do what I have been doing: Supporting a candidate whose policies and positions are most close to mine. In that respect, I donated to Jill today and will be working on getting her on the ballot in my state.
Hey, not everyone reads every situation/event the same way. Why
not accept that, and move on?
And that's addressed to several of the more argumentative convos in this essay thread, not just these several comments.
Also, even if some folks' take on Bernie's endorsement differs from yours or mine, Luna, I don't see where that qualifies anyone to declare that the other person has 'given up.'
Please, why don't we all try to stick with expressing our opinions, and refrain from analyzing or characterizing the opinions of others.
Especially since this is a very happy day for JtC--and hopefully, for every member of our Community.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Jeeze Lunachickie
your the one who over the top drama queening.
This is unnecessary and insulting to people who do not agree with you. No ones saying he's a dumb ass. I hardly think his calling their bluff would FINISH the movement. It is not his movement and it's been a long time in the making. I would not have been pissed and SORRY. Besides saying he would endorse the nominee he said he was in it for the win. He said he would take it to the convention. I thank him for his run it showed people exactly what we are dealing with as far as anti-democratic partisan electoral politics goes. If he had of called her bluff I agree with NHK he would have been a national hero.
Nobodies looking for reasons to give up. Giving up on the Democratic party is a good thing imo. The revolution is not Bernie it's the people. Get a grip. Any bailing you see has to do with Bernie's campaign and candidacy which seems to me to obviously be over. If he works inside the party to reform it I wish him luck but there is no way that I'm going to participate. Been there done that on every level city, state, and national for at least ten years. Even joined my county Dem. party and got some so called 'progressives' elected. They turned out to be more corrupt then the last batch.
Nobody's spreading nonsense. Bernie did what he did and his reasons which are as far as I'm concerned are irrelevant. I'm sure he thought it was his best course of action. As he often said this is not about him. He is a politician not a bleeding saint. I know what lengths they go to and what cheaters they are. Questioning Bernie's move to concede and endorse is normal and democratic. I do not blindly unquestionably follow leaders even as decent a one as Bernie.
Maybe your not ready for a political revolution that about us and not them. Bernie is now them. that's no insult it's just how it is. I'm not bailing on the Democrat's they bailed on all of decades ago. Stop insulting people and shouting please. We are allowed to discuss Bernie in some other light then the one you shine on him. I respect the man but he is a pol and what he did is political and a valid subject to talk about.
Seriously ...
How are people so freaking dense about this?
Bernie is not our freaking savior. If your investment in this election, this process, hinged solely on whether or not he could be your own personal Jesus, then you're not really ready to be part of the revolution.
I'm curious--has a statement been issued to walk-back
the endorsement?
Thanks.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
National Mill Dog Rescue (NMDR) - Dogs Available For Adoption
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
I still don't understand how these concessions are victories
Clinton will say anything to anyone. The platform? Don't make me laugh. Nothing about the platform is binding and the progressive parts of the platform are near universally ignored after the election.
I see absolutely nothing here for progressives.
I think this is more of a case of strategically minimizing the
win of the opponent rather than claiming it as a "Victory".
Even I, who always cling to hope, have to admit that outside of the slim chance of a a Congressional charge of Perjury coming out prior to the convention we have to recognize that actual victory is no longer an achievable goal for this particular battle. This is but one battle of the many to come, so now it is more about maximizing our position for the next battle.
What I think Bernie did here was basically lay the ground work for a political version of a guerrilla war and is providing us the ammo now for the battle we have to fight tomorrow.
All of his, "Hillary Understands" statements were likely parsed that way for a reason, because now when she invariably goes against them we can then say to the holdout progressives in the Democratic Party, "See, even though she understands we need these things she chose to do what was best for Clinton and not what's best for us!" Etc.
Tactically, what he did yesterday was quite sound in my opinion if you view it from the perspective of future engagements down the road.
I feel that it has the potential to further erode the Democratic base and make it easier for us to poach them over to either the New Progressive Party or the Greens when Clinton (if she even manages to beat Trump) does what we all know she will do.
Sure, some die-hard Clintonites will forever remain true believers and back her most Republican of actions, but many more will become disenchanted over time, and if we can have a new house ready for them to move in to that is all fresh and shiny new with none of the rot that their old one was infested with I think they will indeed choose to move.
That is why it is imperative we keep moving forward on the creation of a new party.
Then when the DNC says, "Fuck em. Where are they gonna go..." they can say, "Over there, where my real friends are." How many of us that are planning our #Demexit now, or that have already done so, would have done so sooner if we would have had a viable place to go?
I could be over or under analyzing this, but I have been spending a lot of time with my notebook jotting down pros and cons to try to come up with a rational explanation for why he chose to do what he did and other than a leopard suddenly decided to change his political spots after decades of proudly wearing them these are just some of the things that I thought were possible.
Sorry, this is kinda rambling, but I have some stuff that I need to do that requires mobility so I did what some earlier poster suspected I did earlier. I.E. "Smoking Something." and was just waiting for the muscles to relax enough to allow me to do so.
I can't wait for my robot body... lol!
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
I don't either
but haven't we all realized that years ago now? Why are we so freaking hung up on this word, "endorsement", when we know all those other words in this "Democratic Platform" don't mean shit either?
I think that Bernie Sanders is doing the best he can with what he has to work with. I've been accused by others of "cheerleading for the 1%" by pointing out repeatedly that he had no choice. I submit that not everyone understands what a scumbag Ed Rendell is, but holy shit, I am telling you, he would have stripped the guy of his delegates and bounced him from that convention and then blamed it on Bernie--and he would have been backed up by all those damn supporters of Team Hillary, which includes all our crooked media stenographers. And they would have gotten away with it, just like they have gotten away with so much else..
Now, I do, verily and sincerely, apologize for my strident tones today, but my biggest problem with it all continues to be that I read this endless grief about how Sanders SOLD US OUT when he has done exactly no such thing. He kept his word and he is still keeping his word. To me, having that aired out over and over by a select few, repeatedly, is catchy, and it will turn into many if we're not careful. And that is giving Camp Clinton exactly what they want. We must stay united.
I refuse to yield her one damn vote, and so should we all. But don't blame the guy who showed us the way. Just stop that. Please!
I wish I could vote this up more than once.
(Edited for clarity / blockquote).
He didn't sell us out because he didn't get squat
He just did exactly what he's been saying he's going to do. I really don't care either way. His endorsement doesn't sway me to vote for her in the least. I just think it's a damn shame that dems would give him absolutely nothing real, and fight tooth and nail against even doing that...
Bernie can finish out his career as he'd like. I have great respect for him, but I will not follow him down that road of lies.
Thank you Steven, for all the
Thank you Steven, for all the time and energy you have been putting into your writing. You are a treasure.
~OaWN
Hillary isn't a leader
Hillary sacrifices the people and movement for herself. Jill Stein can win and be a great leader.
Beware the bullshit factories.
It's like you have never been listening to Bernie
All of you that feel betrayed and your trust was misplaced are out to lunch. It's as if you never listened to anything Bernie said in the beginning and through out his campaign.
Bernie Sanders was crystal clear. He would support the Dem nominee, he would never do anything to risk a potential Trump Presidency and he would take his fight to the convention. Now you can argue that he should have gone third party, that Trump is not as much a danger as Hillary and he should not have done any concession prior to the convention...But he didn't promise you any of that. You made that up in your head as to what you feel he should do. He told you the opposite, yet many of you are complaining about him delivering what he said he would do all along.
So sorry, I get that your pissed about the outcome - who isn't ? But after his lifetime of work on progressive issues, your hurt feelings don't amount to nuthin'. It's your fault you chose to believe some of what he said while not believing the rest. None of this does not mean you cannot work and vote for Jill Stein. It also does not mean you cannot find other avenues to channel progressive causes outside a Bernie Sanders campaign. But it's your fault for not listening to him and no, I am sorry, but your sensitive feelings about being betrayed are misplaced... at best.
You remind me of the Hillaristas that went after Bernie on his civil rights work, until they found out he was getting arrested before most of them were born. Yeah right, Bernie is not someone you can trust...whatever. It's no god damn wonder lefties can't get it together...so many of you are nothing but purity trolls.
Please stop with your broad personal insults.
Just state your points you want to make and how you feel, but telling people they're "out to lunch," and "purity trolls," accomplishes nothing and is just plain rude.
What's RUDE is going on and on and on
and on, in post after post after post, in freakout mode.
I'll stop thinking the worst when you get a grip on your emotion and understand that YOU WERE NOT BETRAYED.
Deal?
Please stop.
luna...
please stop, you are not the arbiter of folk's opinions or emotions. If folks feel betrayed, that's for them to decide. Please stop.
and dontcha know...
it was more difficult for Bernie to say that shit than it was for us to hear it?
I think everyone is just trying in their own way to cope with the disappointment. Those emotions bubble out of people in different ways. I think it's ok for folks to vent. If indeed we have revived a real movement, we'll come together.
Things are in motion with the Greens, Brand New Congress, and something I saw for the first time today:
http://www.resetbuttonmovement.org/ An election reform movement
Also there's move to amend http://www.movetoamend.org/
and TYT's WOLF-pac http://www.wolf-pac.com/
Let's not let the flame that Bernie has ignited die from disappointment. The struggle has always been a long game.
I posted this earlier today but this seems the right place to put it.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
I am in love with this comment.
Very inspirational and aptly stated.
We need to keep our spirits up and stay focused on our goals
Thanks so much, I needed that smile that you gave me.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
I genuinely think for now. We need to stay focused on BERNIE
and give him all the backing he needs...
Bernie needs to go into PHILLY with his support base IN TACT. if we start peeling off he loses the very leverage he has used so artfully up to now.
13 million voters
200 million in donations
And a very activist base of progressive hellbent on no longer being played then marginalized
And YOUNG PEOPLE ... Who don't give a chit about party loyalty uber alles
I am ready to continue to give this support to BERNIE. At least until after the convention. I believe we will know if he has "sold out" or is playing the best game of politics I have ever seen.
For now I am almost totally convinced it is the later.
(Smile)
Orwell was an optimist
I am focused. It was Bernie who left me yesterday.
I have moved on from him.
That's true and I thank you for being way nicer than me
I am pissed, the more I read here today and I'm sorry to rant and piss and moan and get up everybody's asses, but this Clinton Debbie Downer shit is going to be the end of us if we don't GET A GRIP.
Most of us who are hugely disappointed have made a few comments about it and then gone offline. But a few folks are bringing everybody else down in the process with all these insane, wild-eyed posts about OH MY GAWD HE BETRAYED ME AND SOLD ME OUT AND CAPITULATED AND HE'S JUST LIKE HILLARRRYYYYYYYYYY for almost 24 hours now! And that is Grade A bullshit, straight up.
If we want a revolution, you can't afford to fall apart, and I can't afford to watch you. If you're serious, buck up, grit your teeth, settle down and start working down ticket for SOMEBODY, whether it's Green or Dem. Use that energy for something USEFUL.
Everybody will be fine.
They will find their own way to cope and move forward. It helps to be patient and supportive.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Bingo.
Been saying, few would listen.
Bernie Sanders was crystal
I can't speak for everyone, but personally, I thought that given the Hobson's choice between telling one small lie and becoming a quisling, Bernie would have picked the lie.
A bit more purity would have saved us from decades of lesser evil voting. I fear we may have learned too late that we should actually care about our own principles, instead of dropping them whenever the Democrat on offer doesn't live up to them.
Nope sorry
That's your interpretation of events and more importantly, projection of outcomes. He said what he said and now people don't like what those words meant. You feel that makes him a quisling ?
Bernie is deathly afraid of a Trump Presidency. Many lefties are not...but that's his choice to pick her over Trump, not yours or mine. He feels if he does not support Hillary, that may fracture the vote and hand the nomination to Trump...a highly plausible scenario.
I honestly wish ...
... I was "deathly afraid" of a Trump Presidency. I wish I could agree with Bernie on this but I don't. I'm more "deathly afraid" of a Hillary Presidency, but bottom line, it's the people pulling the strings whom we never see who will continue to do so until they are stopped.
The word "quisling" has really negative and horrid connotations, to me, as a Jewish woman and to call Bernie, a Jewish man, a "quisling" is seriously out of line, imo.
Bernie has also been crystal clear on what he means by a political revolution. He has said over and over again that the only power we actually have is in numbers -- the Establishment, the 1%, has all the other kinds of power - i.e., money, etc.
I really do understand that emotions are high and I'm trying to keep my cool here, but some of the comments tearing down Bernie as an individual (as opposed to disagreeing with his tactics) are very hurtful to read.
Beat in the USA.
EXACTLY
why I have been in full on bitch-mode.
I can apologize to anyone I've offended and I am perfectly willing to do so on or offline. But I cannot apologize for being furious at the just-as-strident, over-the-top, inflaming rhetoric of "Bernie Sold Us Out" I've been reading here since yesterday. Now I see new friends here calling him a quisling, too? I'm sorry, but that's a bit much.
So I'm gonna shut up now and go away for awhile and let the admins here sort it out. Just as those have the right to be upset, some have the right to be righteously pissed-off at our own for doing exactly what Team Hillary wants us to do...
To Steven D,
Thank you for always going beyond the normal copy and post, and digging deeper for the behind the story story. I find it extremely admirable as to how you are willing to connect with a total stranger in order to get the truth. It is not the first time you have done this and I am extremely appreciative for your doing so. Thank you again and thank you for sharing it with us!
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Fox News interviewed Jill Stein.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lelEx10_PMQ
I was impressed with how well Jill held her ground. She would be great in a debate!
[And yeah, now I have to be grateful to Fox News. Damn.]
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
lol - I've fallen in love with Morning Joe
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
My guess is Jill Stein's offer had something to do with it
When Jill Stein offered to step aside and let Bernie run for President as a Green it must have alarmed the crap out of the Clintons, the DNC and the Democratic senators with whom Bernie works. I think the heat was turned way up on him to reject the Green Party. The idea of a whole new party is scary like all new ideas. It's up to us to jump in the water first and the politicians will follow.
Beware the bullshit factories.
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