I want to be a part of a real progressive movement, not a progressive knowledge circlejerk.

Hello neighbors! This was such a good essay from pullupgirl_, and a reminder to not lose touch with our friends here, across the digital divide, that I just had to share it. Reprinted below in its entirety from WayoftheBern. ~ Thumb

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I had a little epiphany at lunch today. Me and my coworkers were shooting the shit while we ate. Somehow we started talking about geopolitics, and one of my co-workers, let's call him Frank, accidentally refereed "Africa" as a country. Our other co-worker, let's call her Linda, teased him and proceeded to inform him that Africa was a continent, not a country, and then went on to name a few countries within Africa.

Frank was embarrassed, and said "I don't see why it's that important to know about places I'll never visit."

Linda replied "It's good to know about other places or else you'll have limited view of the world."

Frank's response: "Sweetheart, my view of the world is always gonna be limited! I'm stuck here with the rest of you and we ain't never leaving. Knowing all about the other countries ain't gonna help me unless I go to the bar on trivia nights."

Linda says "I like knowing lots of information because I get to feel like a smart asshole whenever I correct someone!" We all laughed at that.

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It's important to know that we're all friends, and Linda was just razzing Frank. However, this conversation made me think of something else. I have been in activists circles before, in fact, years ago I was very active in what most of you would refer as the "SJW" movement. One reason I left the SJW movement (or at least put a huge distance between us) is because I became frustrated with the lack of action. There were certainly people within the group that were trying to do the right thing and support the right causes, but there were also a TON of slacktivists that were just there to complain and make themselves feel superior to others.

These people would spend hours ranting, they would dedicate lots of time to call out everything the least bit problematic, and they would go around policing everyone's speech, to the point that you were afraid to talk least you say something "bad". When it came time to call senators, to rally for better policies, to make our stupid ass government work for us... crickets.

Thinking back on that conversation me and my friends had, I have seen a lot of "Lindas" within so called "progressive" activist groups, be it Socialists, Democrats, Communists Anarchists, etc. The difference being that they aren't joking like Linda was with Frank, and their remarks served another purpose other than making you feel bad. It was both a great way to keep certain people 'out' of the movement as well as signaling to other fellow 'SJW' about just how 'woke' you are. These activists waited for any opportunity to show off how much "progressive" knowledge they knew, and then make you feel like shit for not knowing it.

Let me give you a real life example. Way back when Black Lives Matters first started, a college not that far from me advertised an open forum where everyone was welcome to come, and it was the place to ask questions and get answers. Me and a few "SJW" friends at the time decided to go. After all, we're proud "SJWs" and we want to fight for what is right.

There were probably 60-70 people inside the campus, half of them being university students and teachers, the rest were curious locals. Everyone was pretty excited to see that many people interested in BLM. After the meeting started, the main speakers talked about racial justice for a while before opening up for questions. Honestly, it was awkward because NO ONE wanted to ask any questions. Finally, after a few awkward pauses, a young white woman, probably no older than 17, and with a very thick southern accent, stood up and said, "Nice to meet yall, I just got a question, why don't yall protest against black people killing other black people too?"

People groaned, gasped and tsked at her. There were a few snarky comments, and the speaker didn't answer her question but instead condescendingly told her what she said was racist (with no explanation as to why it was racist), and even some of my friends at the time were making fun of her accent, making fun of her clothes, and calling her white trash (forgetting that, ya know, I have the same accent and type of clothes, but I digress...).

Now, I agree the question was bad and ignorant, but here's the thing, she clearly did not ask the question in bad faith, and it was obvious she was trying to be as nice and polite as she could possibly be. She very clearly didn't want to offend anyone and she didn't know how to phrase it in more ""intelligent"" sounding way. But the bigger issue here is: she was at an open forum TRYING TO GET INFORMED. The speakers even said that this was the place to ask any questions you had and learn more about the movement.

Why have a forum for asking questions and learning most about it if you're just going to shit all over anyone who asks a genuine question? Not only did you not inform or educate this young woman about her question, but you also sent a clear message to anyone else that was curious or confused: Don't fucking bother asking questions.

After the BLM meeting, our SJW group went out to eat. Most of the people in the group could not stop bringing up the young woman at the BLM meeting, and how stupid and trashy she was. The group kept bringing up progressive concepts and talking points, such as white privileged, basically verbally jerking each other off over how much progressive knowledge they knew, and then laughing at how stupid that young woman was for not having the same amount of knowledge they had.

Never mind the fact that most of the people in our group came from comfortable middle or upper class homes. Never mind the fact that they had access to better education and had the ability to go out and experience the world and the people in it. These same people that were supposed to be advocates against classism were cackling about how dumb and trashy someone was! And remember, this young woman had been TRYING to learn and expand her limited knowledge, yet it was the "SJWs" that had denied her the opportunity.

Isn't asking genuine questions and making an effort to learn what we progressives want? Aren't we trying to open minds and get more people to support progressive causes? Why, then, are we scoffing at someone who doesn't know as much as we do? Are we only going to support and welcome people into our group that have the same amount of knowledge as us? How are we supposed to change the world when we're basically acting like an exclusive club?

Now to be fair this kind of attitude is not exclusive to progressive activist groups. Elitism and tribalism is something you will find in literally Every. Single. Group. And while I have some problems with progressive activist groups, I also know plenty of people from these circles who are kind, generous souls who would never make fun of someone for being stupid or poor. I know plenty of "SJWs" that are always out fighting for progressive causes and speaking out against hate, and are out there making a difference.

However, I do feel like I hold these so called 'progressive' movements to a higher standard, because they are, in theory, SUPPOSED to be the ones advocating for various minority groups, be it gender, race, sexual orientation, class, etc. And it really pains me to see them engaging in the exact things they preach out against.

But more importantly, I am so critical of them compare to others because I KNOW they can do better. I believe that truly good movements must be open to criticism and critical of how they operate if they want to grow and keep going. And right now, I don't see them getting any better when it comes to their progressive knowledge circlejerk. If anything, it's gotten worse than ever, and what really sucks is seeing all that potential activism being washed down the drain due to ego and tribalism.

(Wow, I wrote a lot. Sorry for that, not working two jobs has given me some free time and I don't know what to do with myself)

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Steven D's picture

Appreciated.

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"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

Thumb's picture

@Steven D Haven't seen your cross-posts in a while. Don't forget about us!

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

sometimes the knowledge to explain. In certain circles where the ignorance is deliberate then I'll get really snarky.

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Meteor Man's picture

All Trump voters are not Nazis or racist. I bookmarked this story to remind me that I need to be understanding and not be judgmental of people who genuinely don't get it. The writer was raised Mormon:

We were not a household that approved of Bill Clinton. It wasn’t the blow job, though that didn’t play well. The perjury played worse, but the problem was really Nafta and the weapons ban and the vague sense that liberal thought was the gateway drug to communism (which was, for people who had seen the wall come down not long before, not an abstract fear.)

The epiphany:

It wasn’t until years later, until I had been quite poor in cities all over the country - which usually meant I was the only white girl on the block - that I understood that I had been lied to. By my government, by the media, by my culture; and there was no law that said you had to teach people true things.

There still isn’t. Donald Trump is the logical next step for a country that indulges itself in mass delusion to keep up appearances, and his supporters are saturated in all the same justifications and half-truths that I grew up with.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/raised-on-rush-and-foxand-taught-by-newt-to...

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"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

Alligator Ed's picture

@Meteor Man

Donald Trump is the logical next step for a country that indulges itself in mass delusion to keep up appearances, and his supporters are saturated in all the same justifications and half-truths that I grew up with.

Blaming Trump is correct. But not blaming Hillaryites is very incorrect. She, too, would have continued they lying, stealing, and murdering of Obama and the Bushes. In this reincarnation of 1984 truth is suppressed, lies are rewarded. Almost no one expects the government to tell the truth--which is a sad but true commentary on the disgraceful descent of our government into failure. All authoritarian governments lie but ours is so brazen they do not even pretend to do otherwise. The USA is the epitome of greed and slaughter. It pre-existed in this fashion before Trump and Medusa:

War without end.

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Right now, there's a very conscious effort by TPTB to turn those of us who should be working together against each other. It's ironic, and sad, to hear all the prejudice and stereotypes lobbed by those on the left at the "deplorables" as if they were a whole autonomous group. Yes, there are people out there clinging to ignorance and hatred out of orneriness. But there are so many more who just don't know any better and are willing to learn if someone can show them without making them feel less for asking.

To me, it's like a movement that went through education a while back that standardized tests were unfair to minority students because they assumed everyone had the same background and life experiences. This is the same deal. For instance, if you've only ever known a one horse town where everyone gets the outside world from Fox News, and you've only ever seen minorities on TV, of course you believe what you believe. That doesn't make someone a bad person, that just means they don't know. I'm not an expert, but I don't think a lot of lefties realize how small and insular small towns can really be.

Now, if they do know better and they chose to ignore reality, that's a different story. But I can tell you in my life, I've had a lot more really meaningful conversations with so called deplorables who asked me some questions people might mock, where the intent was trying to understand and learn. I've gotten much farther talking to people who make some outrageous comments than I ever have trying to shout them down. Someone who comes to a BLM meeting and is mocked for asking an awkward question in good faith is only going to leave with whatever prejudice they came with reinforced.

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Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.

@Dr. John Carpenter A friend's mosque did an open house a while back and the the whole event, but especially the Q&A, was an absolute model of how to make progress. People were made to feel welcome and comfortable. No questions were looked down upon and people did ask some pretty tough questions which were answered gracefully and respectfully. The speakers all did a great job of finding commonalities rather than trying to put up walls.

The only sad part was that I know they tried to get the word out via local media community calendar type things but they were ignored. The turnout was still great, but this was the kind of event that I thought was nothing but a positive thing and more people need to be exposed to.

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Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.

earthling1's picture

What is SJW?
Aside from that, I can say I'm familiar with this response.
A few months ago I decided to engage my counterparts on the right (Breitbart, Zero Hedge, Red State, Naked Capitalism, etc.) to get a feel for anything we may have in common. Which was much, really. But composing questions, honest queries, proved to be very difficult. Great care had to be taken to not appear like a troll or smartass, or even an outsider.
Even prefacing question with " This may seem like a dumb question, but I really would like to know....? could still bring derision and some very ugly responses. They are a suspicious bunch.
Which I think pullupgirl touched on as not just a right wing thing, but that all sides are conditioned to be suspicious. An inflection in the voice or even a southern "drawl" can spark doubt, distrust, or suspicion.
We should all practice giving in to benefit of doubt.
Thanks for a great catch, Thumb. Always good to see you post here.

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

SnappleBC's picture

I have "social justice warriors" in a pretty negative camp. If someone I was talking to applied that label to themselves I'd be backing away slowly -- much like I would if they called themselves a Democrat. My sense has always been that the movement is more interested in shaming and divisiveness than in actually improving social justice.

Put more simply, I see that banner as part & parcel with Hillary Clinton's "deplorables" and I find that viewpoint... well... deplorable.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

Alligator Ed's picture

@SnappleBC SJWs: too much empathy; too little judgement.

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@Alligator Ed

Just would like to point out, regarding an example given in the article, that social justice means exactly that; booting a group of American citizens out of their own country to appease another (and psychopathic) group who doesn't like seeing their freaking skin colour in 'their' country (stolen from other and darker-skinned-than-they people who they probably also don't like seeing around) is obviously creating more injustice within society.

Actual social justice - justice within society - necessarily involves trying to maximize justice for everyone, as far as is possible, and we cannot continue to allow ourselves to be conned by those trying to achieve unjust aims which harm others by their using the same labels as we do for just concepts, but for very unjust concepts and confusing the issues involved.

An urge to harm others based on their perceived vulnerability is not a 'legitimate point of view' or 'political statement'. It's a pathology.

Recognizing the perceptions of 'the other (Dark/propagandized) side' is one thing; allowing such as fascist propaganda 'equal time' with civilized concepts of actual fairness is another - and that way lies insanity.

I know that most/all of us here will have noticed this point, but the way this struck me as being treated in the article shocked the shit out me and I've seen this 'equal time between destructive BS and facts/sense/justice' propaganda used too many times against the American people to let it slide...

When besieged by propaganda and in doubt, we need to go to such as basic principles, mechanisms, consistent results; generally, whatever happens is at least similar to something which has happened before, to furnish a guideline. And, of course, the all-essential characteristic defining humanity in that sense: true empathy, which typically involves all prospective victims considered, weighing consequence to all, in a manner alien to the psychopathic, sadly and disastrously lacking this species-survival characteristic and believing themselves alone to be of any real importance at all.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Alligator Ed's picture

@Ellen North further discussion. I will briefly hope to clarify any misunderstandings of my article. Freedom of speech is the first Amendment--the FIRST--for good reason. Without it, there is no justice and can be no justice. This is true no matter how repulsive the content of that speech, it must be allowed--with one proviso: "Your freedom off speech stops at the tip of my nose".

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Elitism and tribalism is something you will find in literally Every. Single. Group.

That's the bane of our existence. That's why we have wars.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

"social clubs in drag disguise" referring to the political cliques he'd seen.

In my experience, if you look at people's mate-seeking and herd positioning during a political meeting you'll understand what goes on pretty well. You'll also see why the ostensible object of the meeting is rarely advanced.

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Orwell: Where's the omelette?

thanatokephaloides's picture

but there were also a TON of slacktivists that were just there to complain and make themselves feel superior to others.

These people would spend hours ranting, they would dedicate lots of time to call out everything the least bit problematic, and they would go around policing everyone's speech, to the point that you were afraid to talk least you say something "bad". When it came time to call senators, to rally for better policies, to make our stupid ass government work for us... crickets.

These weren't "Social Justice Warriors"; they are Injustice Collectors, a specific kind of psychopathically narcissistic "person". From the list of characteristics at the linked page:

1. Injustice collectors are never wrong. How is it possible that they are never wrong? It's simple: They are always right.

2. Injustice collectors never apologize. Ever. For anything.

3. Injustice collectors truly believe they are morally and ethically superior to others and that others seem incapable of holding themselves to the same high standards as the injustice collector does.

5. Injustice collectors never worry about what is wrong with them as their "bad" list grows. Their focus is always on the failings of others.

6. Injustice collectors are never troubled by the disparity between their rules for others and their own expectations of themselves. Injustice collectors rationalize their own behavior with great ease and comfort.

And especially:

10. The phrase "walking on eggshells" describes life with an injustice collector.

Unfortunately, political movements demanding change tend to attract these people, much to the chagrin of the remainder who are actually trying to change things.

The page at lisaescott.com is the one I've most frequently linked to here on c99, as the whole reason we're here and no longer on Daily Kos relates to the Injustice Collector culture over there (OT) and in today's Democratic Party. Item 10 describes life OT today, unless you're a HillBot Injustice Collector yourself.

Bad

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

gulfgal98's picture

listening to them can go a long way toward bridging the artificial political gaps that have been constructed between us here in the United States. Sometimes it is hard to not be judgmental, but often if you listen to why people feel the way they do, you can begin to find commonality and a dialogue along those lines.

I learned this from experience by spending four and a half years with a Peace vigil in a small western NC town. I met many self described conservatives who approached us from a stance of animosity but opened up once they realized that we were there to listen to them too. In the end, we often found more points of commonality than most people would think.

It always bothered me to see how far too many of the people and the entire administration over at the other place had absolutely zero room for dissenting opinions. We learn nothing in an echo chamber but we learn a lot by being willing to listen to whose who may disagree with us..

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Thanks, Thumb!

I count on you much as I do my fingers, lol - in this case, also as I know that I still have some bad responses to repeated 'right-wing'/corporate media/Dem-type propaganda lines which, if voiced, tend to cut off communications with someone merely carefully disinformed, something becoming common all over... We need these reminders!

Edit: we need to act positively, not merely react to something that strikes us as ignorant and mean BS against some population group, the latter of which elicits probably often the wrong reaction, from a positive angle, even if one tries to be fairly civil about it...

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Alligator Ed's picture

Nice article.

Too bad I don't have thumbs.

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