I may have risked my TOP membership
but, maybe that's what I need to do.
I have strong connections to the community of people there. Well, a community of people there. They saved my life. Literally. Raised the money that I needed to get critical medical tests that my insurance wouldn't cover. Those tests resulted in a diagnosis a serious auto-immune disorder from which I was failing rapidly. Sending me and a companion to get those tests was one of the most humbling experiences of my life and I'll never forget it. So, I've stayed attached to the place, even as I know that I'm not a political fit.
But, maybe, it's time for me to just let it go. I'm having a hard time stomaching it. It's making me so very, very sad.
The Jed Lewison response the posting of his video about Hillary being a liar may have cemented it, for me. Content that was celebrated when the site was opposing her is now to be dismissed as "so 2008." I can't take it. I've lost so much respect.
Here is my comment in reply to him:
So, she’s a liar, but you support her, anyway? I don't get it? How can you call out someone’s integrity like that and then say you support them? Does integrity not matter? And, what’s this “move on from 2008” line? Did the truth about her history change between now and then? Does one’s record have no meaning? We aren’t supposed to look back at how a candidate has acted in the past as part of our assessment? This reminds me of Obama's statement that he wouldn't have war crimes investigated because we need to stop looking back and only look forward. Accountability requires looking back. History informs our current choices. Justice requires resolving past acts. If we shouldn’t look back, let’s shut down the whole criminal justice system. I’m losing so much respect here. This makes me so sad.
It's been a long grieving process, for me.
Comments
Dear Unaspenser
There's some major bullying, shaming and guilt tripping going on over there. It just reminds me to remain true to myself and my kids. I started getting involved in politics because of my kids. I wanted to be able to look them in the eye when they asked, "what did you do once you knew?" They got me marching. (Street action, another think the Almighty there doesn't condone)
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
My daughter
Is definitely a major motivation for activism. My testament to that ended up getting immortalized in a play about Occupy Boston.
I had no idea when I took my daughter to see it. It was a one-man show where he re-enacted the words of real people in Occupy Boston. He was amazing. I could tell exactly who he was portraying with no props or costumes. We are watching, mesmerized, when I suddenly realize that those words declaring that this person must fight for democratic principles, justice and sustainability for the sake of her daughter were my own words! They were the final words of the play. My daughter was very moved. It was surreal.
But that is the truth. I don't fight just for myself. I fight for our children and their children ....
That was a brilliant comment
I saw it last night, and cheered. Personally, I don't think Jed, who hasn't commented on anything since last December, woke up in the middle of the night just to respond to a diary on his video. I don't think it was Jed, at all.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
really?
you don't think Kos or someone else of note there got in touch with him?
They probably could have...
but what would be faster, and easier?
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
I have looked into some of the "long-time members"
whose are piling on the abuse over at TOS, and have discovered that many of them have been completely dormant for years until the last few weeks. Nothing to stop Kos or admins from signing on under a dormant membership.
The marriage between capitalism and democracy is over. –Slavoj Zizek
wow bis
that's interesting, but with what has been happening there, i don't find it at all hard to believe.
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
Good on you for
your honesty. Just because some users there did something really, really great and giving (and maybe even life saving) for you one time doesn't mean you must always remain indebted to them--particularly if your gratitude comes at a price of "looking the other way, against your own conscience". That's way too much to ask of anybody.
.
I noticed that I am the only one...
...to have actually recommended your comment. It was spot-on brilliant...
I want my two dollars!
Shoot, I thought I did!
I'll have to go find it again.
EDIT: problem solved. Can't believe I didn't rec that...I recced most of the comments on that diary, and this was one of my favorites.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
People tend to
fall into one of two categories in my experience. They either have a core ideology from which everything in their lives arises from or they just have appetites. Sanders and just about everyone here has a fundamental ideology that they base there decisions around. Markos, Jed and the Clintons are just appetites.
If someone with an ideology writes something that massively contradicts an earlier writing they feel obliged to explain the evolution - to show the working so to speak. To an appetite it just doesn't matter - and they don't see why it does to the rest of us. As to what group anyone in particular belongs to there is an easy tell - if hypocrisy really gets under the skin they are probably one of the good guys. On a brighter note not everyone at TOP is an appetite -it is always worth bearing that in mind.
The origin of the appetite thinking:
Jesse Jackson, on Bill Clinton - 1992
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
Wow! That quote from Jesse Jackson
is quite amazing, never saw it before. But it fits so perfectly.
Hell is empty and all the devils are here. William Shakespeare
Its pretty damning
I always keep it in mind when at TOP - helps me to stay calm.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
Nicely done
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
Outstanding comment
Gets to the heart of the matter in a very clear way.
Thanks CB
The thinking allows me to read the good stuff at TOP without being given heartburn by the crap.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
Awesome comment
That one will stick with me. Plus, I'm already picturing what a walking, talking appetite should look like in a graphic illustration.
Ha! I really want to see that
if ever you commit it to paper or pixels
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
I think the Buddhist realm of hungry ghosts fits the bill.
Bellies distended from greed, but mouths always agape due to insatiable hunger.
"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained." - Mark Twain
Appetite
PAC-MAN
Super-PAC Man!
The marriage between capitalism and democracy is over. –Slavoj Zizek
What can I say? I voted for JJ.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Jackson said it about Clinton
I think he was spot on.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
A man of the people, saying Keep Hope Alive.
His stump speech was one of the most emotionally moving I've ever heard.
This excerpt is from The Nation's endorsement:
Another variation on the hospital bed theme appears here (my emphasis):
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
You can hear his 1988 convention speech ...
at this web page
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
amazing quote by Jesse Jackson
that's an honest judgment by him of Bill Clinton, the tears he wept when Obama had won the Presidency, also were honest tears. I wonder what his judgments are today about Obama.
Better not think about. I guess the answer is painful to give and painful to listen to.
Yep. It has been
just mind boggling how people who frothed at the mouth over what Bush did thought the same actions were just fine under Obama - the endless rationalizations and excuses for Obama were shocking.
I've been pondering this issue for a long time. I finally concluded that these types of people have no genuine moral compass - these people are simply driven by what they personally like and dislike.
And, unfortunately, there are so many of them!!
dfarrah
The more I peek over there, Unaspencer,
any of us with current or previous health issues should stay away. I discovered that I stay healthier and happier without feeling like I'm living in a toxic household situation.
I can understand your feeling of indebtedness, but it would be healthier to Pay it Forward. peace.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
THIS!!!^^^
Absolutely, Una, you don't owe anything to anybody. They helped you because they wanted to do something good for you, and not to keep you indebted to them.
Whenever you can, pay it forward.
That place is sick. They are supporting a horrible candidate at all cost, even at the cost of their own integrity. That's what causes them to be so off the wall with their bullying and shaming and blaming of anyone who challenges them. They are desperate to defend their indefensible position.
Bullying is bad for the health, and esp to anyone who already has health problems.
Welcome aboard, Una. Your voice is welcome here. We may not agree with everything you say, but we believe in civility while we voice our disagreements.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
There's not much I miss about TOP - except
the fund-raising. Not because I have buckets of money to give away, but because it was such a great opportunity to do something for others.
But, as Riverlover said, staying away really does feel better emotionally and even physically. All that conflict and the abysmal level of discourse, the threats of banishment and time-outs -- like we're toddlers. Personally, I'm just too old for that bullshit.
Your loyalty (if that's the right word) is perfectly understandable. But leaving it behind -- maybe that's for the best.
Hell is empty and all the devils are here. William Shakespeare
I miss a few non-political corners
C&J, Animal Nuz, Top Comments, WAYWO and Quilt Guild (even though I'm not a quilter I love to look at them).
You might live in a community but you don't like all your neighbors, and think the mayor and city council suck balls. I approach the place with that attitude -- if/when I do go back and participate (I do still lurk once in a long while) I pick and choose my hangouts wisely. But if a neighborhood or town becomes so toxic that you have to move permanently, that's part of life as well.
I miss that, too. It felt
great to be able to give a little and be part of a much larger pool of money that meant significant assistance to someone in need.
That philosophy of mutual assistance is very dear to me. I assume other avenues will present themselves.
Keep in mind
that the dkos community that supported you and saved your life is not the same one that is there now. It's long gone. Kos decided he wanted a new 'demographic'. One that he believes reflects the Democratic party's core membership. So the delusional purist far left was driven off. We're 'fucking morons' in his and Ramn's eyes. He freeped his own site. The sad thing is that the elusive 'demographic' he lust's after is never going to fall for his authoritarian hate and fear filled reality.
In a way I sometimes feel he's doing the Democratic wing of the D party and the lefties who are increasingly leaving the party or registering as indies a favor by showing everyone exactly what the Democratic party has become. It's ugly and it's not going to work. Spreading hate and fear of Republicans and the left will not put this shattered Humpty of a party together again. The community I once belonged to at dkos is not welcome there anymore they are too democratic and don't accept the authoritarian reality that we the people have no other choice.
Hope you will find that c99% has a many members that have rejected dkos's twisted version of what democracy and humanity looks like. Lot's of us are refugees from the dkos community that was driven out or left to find a better place.
Devil's advocate....
Don't burn your bridges. Just walk away quietly. You never know.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Look who's talking.
No insult here, dkmich. You are one of the folks over at TOP that I respect. I would always look for your comments/diaries.
The GOS is radically changed. You didn't see all the new usernames like now. Troll City, and I am sure they are pros. It's a shame that Markos is showing his true colors. He can't resist the "mean green." I only posted one diary there. It was a report of one of the first "Awake The State" rallies after the indicted Medicare crook was elected. I would not do it now.
Rec'ed. How do we do a T and R here?
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
Thanks for the compliment....
She said she needed help once, and they helped her. Will she ever need that help again? If there is any chance she might, I would encourage her not to burn any bridges. There are a lot of entitled people at that place.
The site is every bit as awful as you say it is, and yes the names of the posters have changed. I'm just beginning to think they're all sock-puppets and nothing ever really changes. Whether it is Dean, Obama or Hillary, the Kos Kops always seem to be on Kos' side.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
KOS and Outliers
So much has changed over there. I hated the new format and complained a couple of times about it but nothing happened. That is just a small irritant. I am on some other sites (Newsvine for one) that have lots of comments and you can easily read every one.
I was (still am "Old Gar" from 2012) not much for diaries nor was I much on pie fights which had almost taken the whole blog. I got one or two HR which seemed ludicrous and later began to realize the place was becoming a hotbed of trolls who were mostly hilbots or teabaggers wanting to start fights.
I am hopeful that Una
and anyone else who who needs help like smiley7 will be able in time to look here for support. I can see your point as dkos has a mighty fund raising machine but as the people of good spirit who help each other drift off or are driven off will she get that help there.
The last person I helped via dkos was Tia Rachael. A woman I love a lot. Smiley7 is another person I want to give what I can to.For now cross posting essays that are calls for help to our brothers and sisters in dire straits is something worth going there. Me I'm floating I rec and flag for my on entertainment and do not comment and could careless if the bones fall.
Can't we here get enough people who as a community can afford to help those of us who fall through the cracks? I don't know maybe your right dkmitch maybe she should not burn her bridges but still don't we have bridges we can build and offer? Entitled people are not the only ones who open up and help others in need.
T & R
You'll have to settle for an anonymous thumbs up.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Yeah. I have no need
For any drama around it. It's a personal decision. The only thing I'd been participating in lately was the Anti-Capitalist meetup. We are publishing that here, now, so I don't have to sacrifice that activity if I walk away from TOP.
I was there, Una, and I remember
all that transpired, and a lot of those people are no longer at the Orange. Some left a long time ago and are on FB now, some are here, some are not visible any more.
I understand how you feel (chronic Lyme sufferer myself) about that community but I will echo what shah and others have said--you/we have to do what is healthy and avoid toxins, especially abusive ones, as we don't really have the psychic muscle to fight senseless battles.
You are a fabulous person, you will be doing good things for people down the line when the opportunity arises, I have no doubt. I understand your sadness but brighter days are ahead.
Hi Sillia,
Hi Sillia,
I wanted to connect with you because I'm a chronic Lyme sufferer too. I'm hoping now that Johns Hopkins has decided there is such a thing as persistent Lyme, that we will make further headway on treatment. Already my doctor has been modifying protocols for other persistent bacteria such as TB and leprosy. It opens up new avenues of medications and protocols. Sometimes I'm hopeful. If you want to contact me to discuss more, I'm always happy to talk.
Good luck!
Nice to 'meet' you!
or, that is, it would be nice if it wasn't about this horrible disease...
Plenty of bacteria are known to go dormant, as you say, even strep does this and most likely H. pylori, likely others. Viruses do this too--the chickenpox virus most well-known example, herpes simplex, ... there's so much more to learn about microbes.
Yes, stay in touch and contact me by PM if you feel up to it. After six years I am on abx break for now and working on methylation issues. Lyme isn't done with me yet, though.
Folks need an account there
just about like a fish needs a bicycle, to steal the old saw.... Count me as one more vote for "just walk away quietly".
Or, to steal another overused cliche from Robert Heinlein, "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes time, and annoys the pig."
we ARE the community
I was there since 2004 and made a lot of connections to people. I supported fundraisers where I could, met up with people at the first Yearly Kos conference -had people I considered long distance friends. It was hard for me to stay away - but it gets easier. I cannot hide my disappointment in the change in attitude from "better Dems" to "get in line." I never once got flagged, got a hide rate - but I bring that here and to other new sites. The more we all find out fit here, we will create that kind of real world support for each other. Right now, we have a campaign to win, and probably after November, a party to either makeover or a new party to establish that addresses our issues.
Glad you are here with friends, Unaspenser. I was Chun Yang back there.
Hey Una, nice to see you. So glad you found your way here
Brutal comment about Hillary from Christopher Hitchens b/f he died
Don't believe everything you think.
The "move on" sentiment would make sense
If Hillary herself had "moved on". But her 2016 campaign has demonstrated quite clearly that she has not changed. The number of ways that she has outright lied, deceived, and/or manipulated the voting public is off the charts.
Seriously... the woman hired David Brock. That pretty much says it all.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
I feel sad and disapppointed
I'll have to try MUCH harder.
I threw a sock at Kos and only got back one measly flag.
And then, when I defend a poster who posted
with
I receive two measly flags.
I'll have to take more time and try harder.
You see, Markos pissed me off back in 2012 with his comments about the poor and homeless on HIS DAMN SIDEWALKS!
I can't hurt Markos, but I can laugh at him loudly.
With their hearts they turned to each others heart for refuge
In troubled years that came before the deluge
*Jackson Browne, 1974, Before the Deluge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SX-HFcSIoU
The "Fuchinng Morons" comment!
That was the proverbial straw that turned me off markos. I shot a nasty comment that if we were such effin morons then he was worse. Never got anything back. BTW I was never aware or knew how to see if someone got HRs or flags or any of that other important $hit. I just know that there came a bunch of new names that were obvious trolls and were stirring up dissent all over the place.
Hang in there Unaspenser
Your touching post makes me feel sad - for you, for all of us, for what has become of DKOS. (Am I correct in assuming TOP means the Orange Place? I just asked PFiore8 as well?)
I too have so many fond memories there and appreciation of the many wonderful people who without knowing where helping for me recovering from major life and health traumas.
But there is no denying that the place also has a lot of mean-spirited, intolerant, and nasty people, who periodically form vigilante gangs to ostracize those they see as "others."
Dkmich's advice, upstream, seems wise. Don't do a GBCW or go out on a limb and get banned as after this election things may get back to a more tolerable state. There are still many good people there. I wish more would set up parallel accounts here. It took me a long time before I saw one of pfiore8's notes about Caucus99, and I'm still figuring out the minor changes it takes to post.
What a refreshing feeling not to have to second guess every word out of fear of getting banned from a site one has been at for over decade.
I wish I were better at emotional support, Unaspenser. The way my father showed love was to give us long lectures. So please accept my intentions as caring. I started by trying to do one of those group hugs thingies, ((((Unaspenser))), but I just couldn't do it without feeling self-conscious.
JED GOES ROGUE
I am much like yourself. I read Jed's loooong rant about the "pathological liar" and even though it focused on 2008 and earlier, it still rang true for today. Then his "pissing backwards" just floored me. How could a sleuth who did such an in depth expose' turn and smooze up to one he so aptly vilified?
Here is my take - - He is now an entrepreneur with big bucks in the game. "Money talks - BS walks".
Excellent comment....
And so sad about the comment (and commenter) to which it was in response.
As you said, what's changed about her? From what I've seen of her campaign so far, not a god damned thing.
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
-- John Lennon
Power is ruthless when it can not hide
Unaspenser
I have followed you for years and thought it was a good sign when you came back after being banned
I like poking Kos' in the eye with all the Bernie diaries
Hillary and the oligarchs are fighting to continue to control the government and they are getting nasty as a strategy
I don't think it is going to work and it may turn off more people
I have had the sense for some time that Bernie is going to win and his momentum is going up
Kos is making a choice between being another TPM or progressive. If Bernie wins the nomination, the anti Bernie stuff should stop and then the democratic party will have to rally around the Bernie movement
Maybe it is too much to hope for that the democratic party will follow the Bernie movement. The labor unions kept their place at the table of power and lost their edge and the democratic party might do the same thing
The world has changed and it will take a political revolution to address our problems
Una - you are one of the voices that kept good thoughts about TOP in my mind
But I can understand why you like so many others have decided to stay around a little longer or to totally leave TOP