Hillary Clinton... #PathologicalLiar ?

Cross-posted at DailyKos - HERE'S THE LINK.


Good Morning!

ALREADY RECEIVED 4 HR FLAGS

AND A WARNING FOR THIS DIARY.

I EXPECT TO GET BANNED TODAY!

Any tips would be appreciated!

ClintonPathologicalLiar.png"Diagnosing pathological lying can be very
difficult for the untrained person.“

Before I begin, a word for our DailyKos' sponsor.

Markos… Will reality-based diaries like this get me banned on March 16th? Concerned citizens would like to know.


Pathological liars


Lying is the act of both knowingly and intentionally/willfully making a false statement. Most people do so out of fear. Normal lies are defensive, and are told to avoid the consequences of truth telling. They are often white lies that spare another's feelings, reflect a pro-social attitude, and make civilized human contact possible. Pathological lying is considered a mental illness, because it takes over rational judgment and progresses into the fantasy world and back. Pathological lying can be described as a habituation of lying. It is when an individual consistently lies for no personal gain. The lies are commonly transparent and often seem rather pointless.

There are many consequences of being a pathological liar. Due to lack of trust, most pathological liars' relationships and friendships fail. If the disease continues to progress, lying could become so severe as to cause legal problems, including, but not limited to, fraud.

Hillary Clinton lies… a lot.

This seems to be the alarming pattern, and it appears as if people on both the left and the right have been calling her on it for quite some time. Of late, two hashtags have gone viral which are demonstrative of this pattern and that the nation has noticed — the trending tags:

#WhichHillary & #HistoryByHillary

These are simply the facts.

What does this mean? What are the implications? What is the solution?

* DAILYKOS MEMBERS ANALYSIS *


Compiled in this diary are the opinions, observations and analysis of over 30 members of this community, both advocates of Hillary Clinton and critics of Hillary Clinton, and some, like Markos himself, who are both.

Let us review what’s been said, as a community.

  • DailyKos Owner — Site Founder: Markos Moulitsas (kos)

Flashback 2008

Markos’ opinion of Hillary Clinton was rather different 8 years ago than it is today, most notably was when he wrote of “the ability of the Clinton campaign -- including Hillary herself -- and their supporters to engage in some of the most patently ridiculous and bald faced lies;” he wrote of how “the Clinton argument is so asinine,” and “insulting to people's intelligence,” and “in [Hillary’s] world, the only things that are important are things that support her, she'd ignore election results in favor of the one (outdated) poll that confirms her manufactured reality.”


Insulting people's intelligence

[05/21/2008] One of the wonders of this primary season has been the ability of the Clinton campaign -- including Hillary herself -- and their supporters to engage in some of the most patently ridiculous and bald faced lies, knowing that everyone else knows they are engaging in patently ridiculous and bald faced lies.

[snip]

In reality, Obama leads by over half a million votes, for whatever that's worth (not much). But don't worry, the Clinton argument is so asinine, it has gotten little traction among super delegates.

In fact, it's so insulting to people's intelligence, that it's hurting the credibility of anyone stupid enough to use it.

Markos’ character assessment of Hillary in 2008:


Clinton: But whites like me!

[05/08/2008] She's already ignored and belittled every state and voter demographic that doesn't support her. So it only follows that since in her world, the only things that are important are things that support her, she'd ignore election results in favor of the one (outdated) poll that confirms her manufactured reality.

Fast Forward 2016

And yet, apparently, today, Markos thinks the problem is just that “she’s had 30 years of bullshit flung at her from the right,” and that we, on the left, are doing nothing more than maliciously shitting on our presumptive [prospective] nominee” and that it is nothing more than “right-wing tropes of sources.” (hmm...not sure if that’s correct grammar):

Markos thinks that the problem is us, not Hillary, and that our critical analysis — our critical thinking — is not “substantive, issue-focused and constructive,” when we make the case that one candidate has a history of being honest and the other has a history of lying — and that we should publish our analysis at Free Republic. Markos thinks it is merely that we are calling her “a sell-out corporatist whore oligarch.” Markos thinks we are resorting to cheap sloganeering when we use words “oligarch” or “warmonger” or “neocon,” as if it is our use of those words or phrases that is the problem, not Hillary. He wants us, on the left, to stop maliciously attacking” Hillary, and if we don’t, he will ban us from from his site, DailyKos:

Markos does add that, “Constructive criticism from the Left is allowed.,” but he is “not interested in furthering the Right’s hate-fueled media machine.” And, while I realize and respect that this is Markos’ site, I also know that it is the duty of all Democrats — nay, all citizens of the United States of Americanto responsibly evaluate candidates for their strengths and weaknesses, their honesty and trustworthiness, and determine their viability as a Presidential Candidate.

This process is called:

#VETTING

Nothing more. Nothing less. Nothing personal.

Think of the primary as sort of a sparring session. It is practice. We get stronger when we can identify our weaknesses and fix them. You don't want to try and fix them in the general election.
— brooklynbadboy

What if the weakness is in Hillary, and what if that weakness cannot be fixed?

Will Markos or elfling let people flag me, or worse, will they ban me for asking this and these questions?

Over the past 9 months, and most acutely over the past week, there have been a rash of diaries which expose the lies, inconsistencies, and apparent hypocrisies of Hillary Rodham Clinton and her campaign.

Just this morning, DailyKos Member, HumanOfEarth, wrote:

  • 1 Week, 6 Hillary Clinton Lies
    1. Nancy Reagan and AIDS
    2. Bernie Sanders and ‘90s Health Care Reform
    3. Bernie Sanders and the Clean Power Plan
    4. Bernie Sanders on Immigration
    5. Bernie Sanders and the Auto Bailout
    6. Hillary Clinton’s Emails and Her Sec. of State Predecessors

And while there is much I could quote from that informative diary, as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words, but first, to set the context:

“And I always get a little chuckle when I hear my opponent talking about doing it [health care reform]. Well, I don't know where he was when I was trying to get health care in '93 and '94, standing up the insurance companies, standing up against the drug companies."

The picture is rather damning...

CLINTON-bernie-letter-HEALTHCARE
“To Bernie Sanders, with thanks for your commitment to
real health care access for all Americans and best wishes.”’

And so is this pic, from DailyKos Member katchen’s diary:

Actually, I don’t think this lie is funny, not at all. In fact, I think it’s rather frightening in its implication.

CLINTON-SANDERS-HEALTHCAREjpg
“Well, I don't know where [Bernie Sanders] was...”

And the video...


As these photos and this video clearly indicate, Hillary has a lying problem.


However, DailyKos member csheila believes that Hillary is the victim (that we are “hunting” Hillary) ...and that we are “falsely accusing her of being a Republican” ...and that we are just like “Red State” ...and that we are merely “Hillary Haters” “orgasmically calling her a liar” ...and that our analysis is merely “enthusiastic squeals” and that our analysis “feels like middle school when the cool kids circle the outcast.”

Stop the Hillary Hunting
Hillary Haters are out in force tonight. Diaries abound falsely accusing her of being a Republican, ogasmically calling her a liar, and claiming she single-handedly destroyed Honduras. Calls to blanket Social Media with these memes are met with enthusiastic squeals. It feels like middle school when the cool kids circle the outcast.

With all this who needs Red State?

DailyKos member mrules believes that it is nothing but sexist, misogyny, and that she doesn’t “find Hillary to be any more or less corrupt than our standard male politicians over the last two centuries.”

Progressive Men Suck Up All the Air in the Room...Again
The steady and at times, very ugly, dialogue that has developed into the Hillary Bad/Bernie Good freelance industry has been pulsing through the op-eds, comments and punditry on our side of the internet media since late last spring. The dialogue is mostly, like political journalism across the left/right media spectrum, a conversation among men (mostly white).

DailyKos Member Brysynner believes we are “demonizing” Hillary:

Why the demonization of Hillary is counter productive
Right now I've read Hillary is evil, a liar, a con artist, a corporate shill, a warmonger who wants to kill brown people, a Republican who's masquerading as a Democrat amongst other falsehoods. There is no way anyone with zero positive qualities should be winning a political race.

Conversely, I would suggest, for many of us, this is not about “demonizing” Hillary, but rather, this is about identifying a problem… vetting.

Obviously, the reason Hillary Clinton is “winning” might be because of (a) a virtual Media Blackout on Bernie Sanders for the first 8 months of the primary season in 2015, facilitated by, (b) Debbie Wasserman Schultz’s (DWS’) anti-democratic choice to help rig the election for her friend Hillary Clinton by scheduling only 4 debates prior to the first Primary, and (c) to schedule them on poor time slots, and (d) the ‘Clinton’ family name recognition, and most especially, (e) Hillary might just only be “winning” in the early states, and does not negate the fact that there might be a serious problem with Hillary Clinton as a Presidential candidate. Those factors which have been instrumental in her “winning” in the primary thus far, would not help her in the General Election where DWS’ corruption has no influence whatsoever. In other words, many Democrats are speaking up because we feel that:

“Houston, we have a problem.”
“Houston, we've had a problem.”

Are we wrong to be so concerned? Should our critical analysis be dismissed as Concern Troll? Are we seeing the evidence of a very real and very serious problem? Is the fact that Hillary is polling so poorly on “trust” and “authenticity” evidence that there is problem? Does Hillary have a serious problem that no one wants to call out, the proverbial “horses head” in the middle of the room?

The Empress Has No Clothes....

Compulsive Lying Disorder

A compulsive liar is someone who lies with ease and finds comfort in it. The person may even continue to lie when presented with the truth in cold, hard facts. Getting a compulsive liar to admit he or she lied can be nearly impossible.

Does it help when we make excuses or defend her for her as some of her advocates, like DailyKos Member melaka, have been doing?

melaka Mar 11 · 08:21:27 PM

I don't know, maybe it's because she was tired?

DailyKos Member MLWillis tells us:

I Was Acquainted With Hillary Many Years Ago
She “became acquainted with the Clinton’s and attended many [social] events they attended” and wants to be a “character witness for Secretary Clinton,” informing us that “Hillary was warm, gracious and funny. She always seemed to have a crowd of people around her laughing...” and “The times MLWillis spoke to her, she paid attention to what [MLWillis] said and she always remembered [MLWillis’] name and asked about [MLWIllis’] family." And, “If there were children present. she played with them, joked with them and then spoke to them like adults. You could tell that she genuinely loved them and was concerned with their lives.” MLWillis says that she “does not recognize the person that people describe when they call her a liar and a corporate shill or a murderer.”

Hillary was warm, gracious and funny. She always seemed to have a crowd of people around her laughing and if Bill were not near her, he often glanced over and smiled. The times I spoke to her she paid attention to what I said and she always remembered my name and asked about my family.

If there were children present. she played with them, joked with them and then spoke to them like adults. You could tell that she genuinely loved them and was concerned with their lives.

I don’t know if Hillary would remember me. I no longer live in Arkansas. My husband died quite a few years ago and I do not have the means to travel in those circles anymore. But I remember her. I have the greatest regard for her. I do not recognize the person that people describe when they call her a liar and a corporate shill or a murderer.

Understandably, I believe, DailyKos Member icemilkcoffee expressed the following:

icemilkcoffee Mar 10 · 02:47:40 PM

“I met her socially and she seemed nice to me in social settings”. This is not a useful character witness [for President of the United States.]

Myself, and the following DailyKos Members agreed:

Dump Terry McAuliffe, qphilo, Nate Roberts, megisi, pleochroic, ZhenRen, output, Mudderway, nosleep4u, SoberGuy, cal2010, BradyB, The Angry Architect, jlalbrecht, 2andfro, Greg Hume, vivling, Dante3214 and myself, sensetolisten.

And apparently, 9 anonymous DailyKos members not only disagreed, but so strongly about their disagreement they felt that icemilkcoffee’s comment should be hidden…. i.e. censored, and presumably, by extension, they wanted to send a message to icemilkcoffee’s that if he continued to post comments of this nature, questioning their “Pro Hillary Clinton narrative”, he would be banned. Elfling agreed (and I must assume, by extension, Markos and the entire site admin staff agreed) with this censorship and apparently she felt so strongly that she went out of her way to defend and advocate on behalf of censorship, offering the following justification:

elfling sensetolisten Mar 10 · 09:53:00 PM

I think this is one of those cases that can be interpreted either way.

One thing that I dislike about this comment placed in this diary is that it seems to have been written mostly to intimidate the diarist and to make the diarist regret having written a lovely and interesting first diary simply because it had nice things to say about the opposing candidate.

Perhaps that wasn’t the actual intent, but that is how it came across, I suspect, to those who flagged it: as harassment of the diarist, and especially a new diarist.

When I first read icemilkcoffee’s comment, it was in fact hidden, i.e., CENSORED, and had 3 HR Flags and no Tips yet. I assume this means that icemilkcoffee had already been sent an automated warning message.


CENSORSHIP

CENSOR-RED-2

  1. a : the institution, system, or practice of censoring
    b : the actions or practices of censors; especially : censorial control exercised repressively
  2. the office, power, or term of a Roman censor
  3. exclusion from consciousness by the psychic censor

For my part, I wrote elfling the following comment response:

sensetolisten elfling Mar 11 · 10:40:49 AM
elfling,

I. AM. NOT. BUYING. IT.

I do not buy this: I think this is one of those cases that can be interpreted either way.
I do not buy this: One thing that I dislike about this comment placed in this diary is that it seems to have been written mostly to intimidate the diarist.
I do not buy this: how it came across, I suspect, to those who flagged it: as harassment.
[snip]

DailyKos Member qphilo agreed with me, that the HR Flag was wrong.

qphilo icemilkcoffee Mar 10 · 04:13:09 PM

This is not an HR-able comment. A few social anecdotes about a candidate are just fine, as are disagreements with the extent to which that indicates character. I don’t see any abusive language, or personal attacks, or racism/sexism.

DailyKos Member Black Max defended the censorship and threat of banning, although, apparently, he claims to not have flagged it himself.

Black Max qphilo Mar 10 · 05:38:48 PM

Rule #1: DBAD. Major violation.

I challenged this DBAD rule and ruling:

sensetolisten Black Max Mar 10 · 08:23:36 PM

The DBAD rule is ill defined and as such, meaningless, and serves one an only one purpose, and that is to give people carte blanche to harass, bully and censor anyone who says anything that one doesn’t like. I call BS. I, for one, am tired of this sort of anti-democratic nonsense.

qphilo also challenged the DBAD ruling.

qphilo Black Max Mar 10 · 07:22:45 PM

Pardon me for saying, but I think you applied that rule too broadly in this case. One can disagree with the diarist. The rule as you applied it makes anyone who appears in a diary favorable to an opposing candidate into a DBAD. We can’t allow ourselves to slip that far.


qphilo qphilo Mar 10 · 09:32:15 PM

Without a reply, I decided to uprate. Flagging comments like the one above sets the wrong precedent, and stifles mere disagreement.


Black Max qphilo Mar 10 · 09:52:31 PM

I didn’t flag it. But it was a dickish thing to say.

If overzealous community moderation censors discussion about a serious and prevailing problem with a Presidential Candidate simply because we don’t like what we are hearing, this could be setting us up for a major loss in the general election, if Hillary Clinton’s lying problem is as serious as it appears to be.

Markos admonishes:

There’s a difference between constructive and destructive criticism. Do I need to spell it out? It’s the difference between “We need to put pressure on her to do the right thing on TPP” versus “she’s a sell-out corporatist whore oligarch.”

I am not sure how that admonishment applies to censoring discussion of the candidate’s character.
Markos also admonished:

If you are a Hillary Clinton supporter being a dick, you are immediately on notice. That means comments like this one are sanctionable starting this second. The March 15 transition isn’t about giving Clinton supporters a chance to celebrate, spike the football, rub the faces of their opponents in the mud. It’s about uniting toward a common purpose.

Does this or does this not signify that Markos supports this sort of censorship and justification for banning? Am I “being a dick” for mentioning that Hillary Clinton has a lying problem?

JUST THE FACTS, MAM, JUST THE FACTS.

Hillary Clinton lies. She lies a lot. She lies so much that it could be a problem and cost us the general election. Her lies are often unprompted, and they don’t even make any sense, so much so, that we do have to ask our selves, as responsible Democrats, if this might actually be the symptom of a serious disorder?

Lying as a Symptom of a Disorder

According to Psychology Today, people with psychiatric disorders lie for a variety of reasons.

  • Admiration and Popularity
  • Control and Manipulation
  • Low Self Esteem
  • Disguising Failure

As responsible Democrats, we need to be informed.

Signs of Pathological Lying

Understanding the signs of pathological lying will help you identify if someone you know is suffering from this type of lying disorder. Pathological liars are addicted to lying, and this type of regular deception is often associated with another mental illness. Using a list of common signs can help you identify someone with a real lying addiction.

Signs Someone May Be a Pathological Liar

  • Individual Also Suffers from Mental Illness or Personality Disorders
  • Lies Bring Attention to the Person
  • Stories Are Impossible to Believe
  • Lies Make the Person or Situation Look Better
  • Lies Show the Individual as a Constant Victim
  • Individual Has Poor Self-Esteem

Identifying a Pathological Liar

  • Knowledge of the Individual's Personal History
  • Understanding of Individual's Psychological Stability

Suggest Professional Help
If you suspect someone you love has a problem with pathological lying, seek help from a qualified therapist. If the person who compulsively lies will not seek help, set your own boundaries firmly in order to avoid being hurt.

“Set your own boundaries firmly in order to avoid being hurt.”

Dear Markos, elfling, csheila, mrules, MLWillis, et al.,

If Hillary is evoking hatred, or any other characterization, it is probably with good reason, because people don’t appreciate being lied to. Lying is a form of abuse. The notable DailyKos Member Dallasdoc wrote an excellent diary that speaks to this abuse.

The Wound Has Been Reopened

silence_deathWe will always remember.

As the world knows by now, Hillary Clinton lit her credibility on fire yesterday in an interview with Mrs. Alan Greenspan:

“It may be hard for your viewers to remember how difficult it was for people to talk about H.I.V./AIDS back in the 1980s,” Mrs. Clinton, who was attending Mrs. Reagan’s funeral in Simi Valley, Calif., told MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell. “And because of both President and Mrs. Reagan – in particular, Mrs. Reagan – we started a national conversation, when before nobody would talk about it. Nobody wanted anything to do with it.”

She then tried to minimize the furor her outrageous lie caused by claiming she “misspoke,” and pretended she had meant their work on Alzheimer’s disease and stem cell research. Which she also mentioned in the interview, unfortunately for her.

[snip]

Sec. Clinton has been widely criticized for this statement, as well as for the “apology.” She has been predictably defended by her partisans, citing irrelevant Clinton Foundation work, making insulting false equivalency charges against her opponent, claiming that the problem is really sexism (the last refuge of a cornered Clintonite), telling us we just mustn't speak of it, pleading for sympathy because she must have been "tired," and of course by simple head-up-the-ass denial. Outraged commentary is appearing in many quarters, elsewhere we find mystification. And of course some concerned folks are advising us to get over it.

Well, we will not just get over it.

Hillary is not the victim. WE ARE THE VICTIM. Hillary is doing the lying, so we are the victim, not her. Hillary Clinton lies, a lot. That’s just the facts.

Truth is not an attack.

Lying is a malicious attack. And since Hillary is the one who is lying, Hillary is the one doing the malicious attacking. (Will you, Markos, ban any DailyKos member who repeats Hillary’s lies, and thus is maliciously attacking our presumptive prospective nominee, Bernie Sanders?)

This is a serious problem.

We do the Democratic Party a disservice when we attempt to divert attention away from this problem, and yes, there is a problem, a problem with Hillary — a very serious problem.

It’s not me. It’s not us. It’s Hillary.

What we are seeing is inexcusable and bizarre, as DailyKos Member Tom Rinaldo notes:

Hillary is having a very bad weekend

Her comments about the Reagans having been leaders in opening up a public discussion on AIDS were inexcusable, but in some ways even worse; they were bizarre. As Dallasdoc pointed out in his extremely powerful Daily Kos Diary The Wound Has Been Reopened: " Imagine if Barack Obama had presided over 7 years of an Ebola plague which killed over 40,000 Americans without giving a speech on it — even now."

In order to do a fair clinical analysis of Hillary’s “pathology,” if it is accurate to call it that, we need to take a step back and take a broad view of her actions over many years to really see the overarching pattern. And no, I am not a trained Psychiatrist or Psychologist, but any who are, by all means, please do offer your own analysis, I am merely a Democrat attempting to vet a prospective Presidential Candidate, in the primary season, gathering the facts to assist in an analysis.

Please do HR Flag my Tip Jar.

Shooting the messenger is not the answer.

I am being a responsible Democrat by calling attention
to a problem during the primary season, before it’s too late.


THESE ARE JUST THE FACTS


Hillary’s actions, and her lies, speak for themselves. Many DailyKos members have been making note of this for years, most notably, apparently, Keith Olbermann. I really miss Keith’s sane honest candid voice during this election, don’t you? I wonder what Keith would have to say about Markos’ March 15th rule and Markos’ ”March 15 applies to everyone, and I mean everyone” hypocrisy?

How would Markos react? I wonder.

In any case, this study must obviously prominently feature Hillary Clinton’s most glaring lie, the Bosnia Sniper Fire Fairy Tale, because it does set the stage for so much of what we are seeing, I believe, and who better to expose the truth than Keith?

  • DailyKos Member: Keith Olbermann
    Keith Olbermann shoots down Hillary Clinton's Bosnia sniper

...

How could a major public figure like the former first lady, think that such a transparent fabrication would go unnoticed? What does this suggest to you about her character? It’s a serious problem when a Presidential Candidate believes the fairy tales she has created in her mind. Most especially:

  • What kind of havoc might be wrought by a Commander in Chief of the United States Armed Forces who believes their own fairy tales?

I shudder to imagine.

Needless to say, there are other notable incidents of Hillary’s lies from the 2008 Primary season worth recounting, and I will cover them below in the context of a broader analysis, but first, let’s review the current news cycle to see what has prompted this diary today, because I do believe a notable Rubicon has been crossed worth noting. Over the past week there have been a number DailyKos members who have written diaries identifying Hillary’s lies.

  • DailyKos Member: sponson

As sponson rightly says, you really can’t make this stuff up.

You just can’t.

Hillary Clinton credits Reagans as a positive force on HIV/AIDS awareness

You can’t make this stuff up. And I did not make it up. See and hear for yourself. Reagan’s refusal to even say “AIDS” or “HIV” until the very end of his term is well documented. And here’s Nancy's Reagan’s record.

UPDATE: Hillary Clinton has issued a terse apology, devoid of explanation. Markos, will people be allowed to talk about this episode after next Tuesday, or will it be labeled a “right-wing trope?” I think the question is in order.

  • DailyKos Member: jamess

As jamess notes, Camp Hillary’s response is to make believe it never happened.

Take Two: Second time's the Charm on NBC

...what is perhaps even more amazing than that, is that after the public and twitter out-roar concerning that factually incorrect statement, NBC gave Ms Clinton a second try at the interview with Mitchell to get the story correct, before her out-of-touch mis-statement got totally out of hand.

This link has their updated new story labeled Nancy Reagan Laid to Rest After Funeral In California, but somehow inexplicably, Clinton now credits Nancy Reagan for her out-reach on Alzheimers research (instead of AIDS and HIV research) as she had said earlier…

[SNIP]

With NO Mention of the earlier faux pas given anywhere in the entire 3-minute piece.None.

……..

If I did not check the Stories here at the Daily Kos, I would have thought …

It’s just like — the faux pas never happened. Because according to NBC News — it hasn’t.

Newsflash

DENIAL OF THIS PROBLEM IS A PRESCRIPTION FOR DISASTER!

As jamess’ diary also notes, in case there was any doubts....

NY TIMES: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention first identified the disease in 1981, but Mr. Reagan, despite desperate calls for action and thousands of deaths, did not mention H.I.V. or AIDS publicly until 1985 and did not give a speech about the disease until 1987, when an estimated 40,000 people had already died of the disease and roughly 36,000 more had given a diagnosis.

  • DailyKos Member: Phoebe Loosinhouse

Phoebe is correct, I think, it does genuinely appear as if Hillary really believes the lies she is telling; Hillary is living in a different reality than the rest of the world.

What We Might Conclude From Hillary's Reagan AIDS Gaffe

So Hillary Clinton lives in a different reality regarding AIDS than the rest of us do. If she said what she said as a conscious revisionism in an attempt to burnish the Reagan legacy or sign onto it, that is unconscionable, not to mention stupid because of the aforementioned witnesses who lived through the Reagan silence and disinterest saw people die around them.

But the other choice is that Hillary believed what she said when she said it. Is that more comforting? How could someone in her position of power and leadership be so completely, totally off-base in her recollections? Since we’re talking about Reagan here, she’s veering into territory that Reagan pioneered, when he offered up movie vignettes as his personal experience.

[snip]

Here’s the biggest problem: if you look at the tape of the interview , Hillary is earnest, commanding and authoritative about something we know to be completely, and objectively false.

  • DailyKos Member: Little

As both Little and Phoebe note, and I do wholeheartedly agree, it is the earnest, commanding, authoritative conviction that is most troubling; no real Democratic candidate for President would say these things.

Is Hillary Clinton Running a Real Campaign?

You really have to watch her say it. It’s done with such conviction:

This cannot be a real Dem candidate for president. No real Dem candidate for president would ever say these words. This is the kind of thing that creates armies of extremely pissed off people — Dem people. (“AIDS” is near the top of the Twitter trending list right now.)

P.S. She’s already scrambling back.

  • DailyKos Member: Crashing Vor

I emphatically agree with Crashing Vor.

It’s not about whether: Hillary Clinton is qualified TO BE President?

It’s about whether: Hillary Clinton is even qualified TO RUN for President?

So Tell Me, How Do You Make Up for a Move this Bad?

That a political pro could make such a terribly tone-deaf statement, one which instantly turned tens of thousands of supporters into angry opponents (check your Facebook pals if you doubt it), is more than worrisome.

How’d it happen? Who knows? And who cares?

[snip]

NOT because it was racist. Because it was stupid. And someone who could pull such a rookie move was instantly marked as politically incompetent.

There are plenty of posts up about the history of Reagan and AIDS, posts questioning Clinton’s sincerity, yadda yadda. This ain’t about all that. The point of this post is not to ask, “Can this person be trusted to be president,” but, “Can this person be trusted to run for president?”

  • DailyKos Member: fladem

I completely agree, fladem, she did not “misspeak,” this is not a gaffe, and silence on this is unforgivable.

Is the Front Page REALLY going to ignore what Hillary said about Reagan and AIDS??

For anyone who knew people who died from this disease, it is hard to describe how completely wrong Clinton is on this. What she said was a LIE. It covers up when can only be described as a crime the Reagan Administration committed.

She did not “Misspeak”. This is not a gaffe.

You may think we need to rally behind Clinton for the general. Fine, maybe I get that.

But silence on this is unforgivable.

Something I would add: I cannot imagine Obama saying anything like this.

The list goes on and on and on……...

[NBC NEWS] Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton, who struggles with perceptions of dishonesty in polls, said Thursday that she doesn't believe she has ever told a lie and vowed to do her best to be honest going forward.

...

"You're asking me to say, 'Have I ever [lied]?' I don't believe I ever have. I don't believe I ever have. I don't believe I ever will. I am going to do the best I can to level with the American people," Clinton told anchor Scott Pelley.

[snip]

“It is obviously troubling that people have questions about me, which I will do my best to answer," Clinton said. "So people are really asking, 'is she in it for herself or is she in it for me?' I've always been somebody who believed and raised in my family and my faith that I, with my blessings, had an opportunity and an obligation to do what I could to help others. And that's what I will do as president."

In 2008, Jed Lewison (The Jed Report), DailyKos Senior Policy Editor and Editor of Daily Kos TV. Former communications director for Sen. Maria Cantwell, put together the following 3m15s video of Hillary Clinton:

  • Hillary Clinton - Lies
    HILLARY CLINTON {thick southern accent - WTF?}:
    When we get to talk about character, we need to look at the whole person. And we need to look at the kind of way that he conducts himself.

    Part of what I believe with all my heart is that voters are tired of people who lie to them. They’re tired of people who act like something they’re not.


HILLARY CLINTON: I am tired of people who act like something they’re not.

  • In this next video, Hillary lies about Bernie’s support of President Obama, whilst she herself is the one who has been criticizing President Obama; and as DailyKos Member TomP notes in his diary below, Obama is none-too-please about it.

If the disease continues to progress, lying could become so severe as to cause legal problems, including, but not limited to, fraud.
So severe as to cause severe legal problems…???

Legal Problems???

Well, everyone knows...

  • The FBI has 150+ Agents investigating Hillary Clinton’s use of a Private Email server.

    And while much can be said on both sides of this debate with regards to the FBI’s Criminal Investigation of Hillary’s use of a Private Email Server while performing her official duties as Secretary of State, (yes, Armando, “criminal investigation,” who are we kidding) that is not what I wish to discuss, here now today, because I could list a dozen diaries from both sides, but that is not what’s important. NOT TODAY. We shall all know soon enough the Director of the FBI, James Comey’s final recommendation and AG Loretta Lynch’s decision.

What is important is simply THAT exists.

Let me stress this: I am merely making mention of its very existence, which, in and of itself, is extremely troubling and highly indicative of a pattern
— a pattern of “legal problems.”

  • HILLARY CLINTON: When we get to talk about character, we need to look at the whole person. And we need to look at the kind of way that he conducts himself.

HILLARY’S 30 YEARS OF SCANDAL
AND THE ALLEGED
“VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY”


As we all know, Hillary’s history is riddled with legal problems, often dismissed as the “Vast Right Wing Conspiracy” and while Markos might not want us to promote the so-called “RW Tropes,” and I respect that (to the extent that it is truly or exclusively a RW Trope and not a criticism that we all share as US citizens), however, in the context of assisting in a Clinical Diagnosis, I would be remiss if I did not, at the very least, make mention of them, for they seem to be indicative of this troubling pattern.

This begs the question...

  • If these legal problems that have plagued Hillary for over 30 years are not part of a “vast right wing conspiracy,” are they indicative of a pathology?

I am not qualified to make that sort of a clinical diagnosis, nor I am qualified to judge the merits of these old legal travails, I am merely making mention of the alarming number and frequency, which one must admit, is suggestive.
DISCLAIMER: The source for many of these are notably RW groups, (this cannot be avoided, Markos, and if you want to ban me for merely mentioning them in the context of this analysis, then ban me) and no, I will not include the outlandish and truly frightening ones, nope, you may look those up on your own:

  • (1) Clinton’s use of the IRS against opponents • (2) Covering Bill’s dirty deeds • (3) Looting the White House • (4) Filegate: FBI files on GOP enemies • (5) Chinagate: Sale of high-tech secrets • (6) Travelgate • (7) Whitewater • (8) Hillary's 'missing' law firm billing records • (9) Pardongate: Hillary Senate contributions • (10) Hillary's cash cows and 9,987 percent profit • (11) Hillary Iranian fundraising, etc.

    The list goes on and on...

Hillary Clinton -- Lying for 13 Minutes Straight ...

At what point do we start to question? Surely the independent voters in the General Election will weigh these, causing us to lose votes, particularly if they are the centerpiece in a Republican SuperPac multi-billion dollar media blitz.


2008 PRIMARY ELECTION:
CLINTON vs OBAMA


HILLARY CLINTON: “...we need to look at the kind of way that he conducts himself.”
Well, how did Hillary conduct herself in the 2008 Democratic Primary against Obama with respect to the Florida & Michigan delegates?
How did Hillary conduct herself in the 2008 Democratic Primary against Obama with respect to running a clean “honest” campaign?

Well, about that “Obama is a Muslim” smear, you know... THE LIE !?!?!?

The Clinton campaign has been accused of smearing and spreading rumors about being a Muslim. In Decemeber two staffers from the Clinton Iowa office were fired for spreading Muslim email rumors. Again, as Recently, in Ohio there were rumors of her volunteers spreading Muslim rumors. These string of rumors are not accident. What we continue to see from the Clinton campaign is a pattern to deliberately undermine Obama as candidate. Hillary cannot go after Barack Obama on the issues, so she would rather resort to personal attacks. Here is what Los Angeles Times reporter Don Frederick discovered.

And how did Hillary respond when asked directly?


HILLARY CLINTON: “As far as I know...” ? WTF???

Diagnosis

Diagnosing pathological lying can be very difficult for the untrained person. Psychologists are trained to read between the lines and see the issues this diagnosis presents, as a disorder. It is listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Third Edition. It is a stand-alone disorder as well as a symptom of other disorders such as psychopathy (sociopathy) and antisocial, narcissistic, and histrionic personality disorders, but people who are pathological liars may not possess characteristics of the other disorders. Excessive lying is a common symptom of several mental illnesses.

Several Mental Illnesses…???

ClintonPathologicalProblem.jpg#GiveItAName



HILLARY CLINTON: “We came. We saw. He died.”


PSYCHOPATH ~ SOCIOPATH


Psychopathy or sociopathy is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited or bold behavior. It may also be defined as a continuous aspect of personality, representing scores on different personality dimensions found throughout the population in varying combinations.

Diminished empathy or remorse...?


NARCISSISTIC

Narcissistic personality disorder is a personality disorder in which a person is excessively preoccupied with personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity, mentally unable to see the destructive damage they are causing to themselves and often others.

Unable to see the destructive damage they are causing...?

Hillary Clinton's Assassination Remarks - Unforgivable.
  • Hillary brings up the specter of the Kennedy Assassination during the Presidential Candidacy of the first black American to run, when Obama had been receiving more death threats than all previous presidents combined, and if that is not indicative of “diminished empathy,” then I don’t know what is.

HISTRIONIC

Histrionic personality disorder (HPD) is defined by the American Psychiatric Association as a personality disorder characterized by a pattern of excessive attention-seeking emotions, usually beginning in early adulthood, including inappropriately seductive behavior and an excessive need for approval. Histrionic people are lively, dramatic, vivacious, enthusiastic, and flirtatious.

[snip]

HPD lies in the dramatic cluster of personality disorders. People with HPD have a high need for attention, make loud and inappropriate appearances, exaggerate their behaviors and emotions, and crave stimulation. They may exhibit sexually provocative behavior, express strong emotions with an impressionistic style, and can be easily influenced by others. Associated features include egocentrism, self-indulgence, continuous longing for appreciation, and persistent manipulative behavior to achieve their own needs.


ClintonPathologicalProblem-BLAMESHIFT
#DenyDenyDeny #Blameshift #MoreLies
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Comments

kharma's picture

It's a lifeboat where we can discuss issues that are too uncomfortable for some of our authoritarian types to rationally handle (for instance surveillance). Yes you will probably be banned over at DK but really that was why you wrote the diary anyway wasn't it? to piss off a bunch of people? Lisa Lockwood has a good calling out diary that isn't so offensive, maybe you can learn from that. Just ask yourself, what good are you doing for the movement if you only push people's buttons and are subsequently banned?

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10 users have voted.

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

Nah. This place wasn't created to have DK battles
It's a lifeboat where we can discuss issues that are too uncomfortable for some of our authoritarian types to rationally handle (for instance surveillance).

Thank you.

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8 users have voted.
sensetolisten's picture

Why would I care about a flame war with DailyKos Hillary Clinton supporters?

I care about our nation.

I think Hillary Rodham Clinton is a Pathological Liar.

Rather than criticize my diary for something which has zero to do with my agenda...

Care to weigh in on the actual question I am posing?

Did you notice that I took the time to respectfully include the opposing viewpoints? If you'd read my diary, you would have noticed that. Well, I did that because I wanted to demonstrate that I considered BOTH sides of the debate, to mitigate the flame war, not that I don't expect it anyway, but still, I did my part.

These is a serious problem with this candidate and the flame wars are a diversionary tactic to hide it.

THAT's my point.

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8 users have voted.

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman

I for one will log on a rec it.

GOS is trying to shoot the messenger and that never sits well with me. If that diary gets you banned then so be it. Fuck conforming to meet the new arbitrary standard.

Also I did not read anywhere in your post that c99p is just an anti GOS site. Today is the Eve of the Great Purge folks, there is nothing wrong with us venting over here.
Let's not be the thought police we detest, if folks need to vent about GOS then that is what they need to do and I support them.

Thank you!

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8 users have voted.
sensetolisten's picture

You words of support are deeply appreciated.

Fact is, I was only using DK as a source because it is so rich and replete with BOTH sides of the debate. I am loathe to engage in any flame wars and that honestly was NOT my intention. Note, I did include both sides of the debate in my diary essay. My intention being, that I was trying to show how we, as the victims of abuse, are enabling the abuser, which is classic behavior for people who are abused.

We make excuses for them.

My focus, though, is on Hillary's perpetual lying (not DK community,. per se, though that is a necessary part of seeing the big picture) which seems life-long. I suspect in the coming days and weeks, we are going to see more and more lying, so this story ain't over. far from it! And when the indictment hits, and it is gonna hit, I am just certain of it, then Hillary is gonna be lying threw her teeth and blaming everyone under the sun, including Obama. Watch.

Thank you, again, for the supportive words. Means a lot to me.

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4 users have voted.

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman

Guess what my offense was?

I posted Hillary's own words the comments of the diary about Mike Browns Mom endorsing Hillary.

"Super predators....we need to bring them to heel"

then I followed it up with some supporting facts :). I'm glad I did because I didn't realize that originally the term was written by an asshole from The Weekly Standard. So she was repeating right wing bullshit and check out how bad the article was-

Nationally, there are now about 40 million children under the age of 10, the largest number in decades. By simple math, in a decade today’s 4-to-7-year-olds will become 14-to-17-year-olds. By 2005, the number of males in this age group will have risen about 25 percent overall and 50 percent for blacks.

To some extent, it’s just that simple: More boys begets more bad boys…. James Q. Wilson and other leading crime doctors can predict with confidence that the additional 500,000 boys who will be 14 to 17 years old in the year 2000 will mean at least 30,000 more murderers, rapists and muggers on the streets than we have today.

Sound like anyone you know? Maybe Mr Trump.

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sensetolisten's picture

I care about the question posed in my diary.

I cite opinions from BOTH side of the spectrum in order to show both perspectives in an even handed balanced manner.

Do you, JtC, honestly think Hillary Clinton might actually be a pathological liar?

Like, for realz?

Serious question.

Forget DK.

Answer the question.

The lies we are seeing are just bizarre.

Can you at least agree to that?

Doesn't that make you even a little suspicious?

If the lies continue, and we all know they will, sooner or later, someone will have to see the obvious. The lady lies too much in too many weird ways, and for no apparent reason. Reagan and HIV/AIDS? I mean, weird stuff.

Did you actually take the time to read my diary and watch all of the videos? You can't have, because you've commented too quickly.

I am making a clinical case, as a non-clinician, yes, but with deliberate patient research.

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7 users have voted.

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman

We have no problem with folks expressing their angst over what DKos has become, I share that angst. There are no rules against discussing DK. From the onset of c99p well over a year ago, we have always wanted this site to become a voice of it's own, IOW to not be the anti-Kos.

This is nothing personal about this piece. It's about the impression that this site is a launching pad for a blog battle with Daily Kos. It was never meant to be that. I understand that was not your intention, my intention is to not let us devolve into that position.

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9 users have voted.
hecate's picture

doesn't exist. A big magnet flew over, and erased all its tubes. People will see that. Eventually.

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7 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

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5 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

sensetolisten's picture

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4 users have voted.

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
sensetolisten's picture

Is Hillary Clinton a Pathological Liar?

It only takes on "flame war" proportions because of the censorship effort at DK, we should not lose sight of that. THEY use that "flame war thing" to divert attention from the real topic. IS SHE A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR?

But/so...
The question really is an innocent stand-alone question.

Yes, as I mentioned several times, I do use quotes from DK, but only because they are a great source material to illustrate both sides of people's responses, but not because it's about DK.

This really ain't about DK at all. My diary is NOT about DK. My diary is about Hillary Clinton. I really am asking a very serious honest question.

IS. HILLARY. CLINTON. A. PATHOLOGICAL. LIAR?

Because if she is, and I honestly do think she is, then we are going to see more and more lies, but not just that, we will be seeing other problems that are symptomatic of other related disorders.

This is a serious concern of mine. I do not believe she is well.

"Diagnosing pathological lying can be
very difficult for the untrained person."

Diagnosis

Diagnosing pathological lying can be very difficult for the untrained person. Psychologists are trained to read between the lines and see the issues this diagnosis presents, as a disorder. It is listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Third Edition. It is a stand-alone disorder as well as a symptom of other disorders such as psychopathy (sociopathy) and antisocial, narcissistic, and histrionic personality disorders, but people who are pathological liars may not possess characteristics of the other disorders. Excessive lying is a common symptom of several mental illnesses.

Again, this is not about DailyKos.

This is about the COMMANDER IN CHIEF of the United States Armed Forces.

We take for granted, because she is a public figure that we have known for so long, that she must, relatively speaking, be "okay," but that actually may not be true. There might be something terribly wrong with her. She has been living in an insulated Secret Service bubble for 25+ years. What do we really know about her? We think we know, but we don't, not really. And no one who does know her closely would dare speak ill of her. So, is it possible, yeah, it's very possible that she is a pathological liar, with other disorders to boot.

In any case, we shall see how she comports herself in the coming days and weeks, and I will probably revisit this question again, when more evidence arises, or erupts.

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2 users have voted.

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
joe shikspack's picture

there are many other reasons evident in her record and her statements that make clear that clinton is not a good choice for the presidency.

as you note:

Diagnosing pathological lying can be very difficult for the untrained person. Psychologists are trained to read between the lines and see the issues this diagnosis presents, as a disorder.

i am not a psychologist. i am fairly certain that jtc is not a psychologist.

you say that you are not a psychologist.

why are you asking people who are almost surely not psychologists to confirm a diagnosis?

there are other questions that are running through my mind right now, but i think that you probably get the idea of where my train of thought is headed.

i think that i just want to say that i feel you are overreaching in this diary.

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3 users have voted.
Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

I notice that front page essays have comment counts and notification or new comments at the bottom of every essay so it's easy to tell if something has been added without referencing the comment stream or the content stream. Is it possible to do that with community content as well? Just a thought.

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4 users have voted.

" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

dkmich's picture

If it can be done on that page, why not other pages? I use the content page and my comments in my account. Can "my comments" be a hotlink next to my account? I would also like to be able to add a comment at the bottom of an essay. When I'm on my phone (computer) and get to the very bottom of a big post, I either have to scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll back up to the top to enter a new comment, walk away, or reply to the last person on the thread and apologize for hitching a ride. Mollie has been most gracious.

I wonder if Johnny can tell we are eager for his next upgrade.

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5 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

why not just bookmark the "My Comments" page? That's what I do.

I can put a "New Comment" editor at the bottom of every page, just like the way that DK5 does it. I did that here a couple of months ago when it was just us few and people got confused and put their comments in the wrong child/parent position. I can put the editor back at the bottom of the page if you wish.

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1 user has voted.

the comment counts and notification of new comments are displayed on the Community Content page, at the bottom of each teaser. Do you not see them? That's weird, does anyone else have that problem.

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3 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

They look the same to me.

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1 user has voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

I wrote that comment while being actually in an essay - this one, where they don't show up at the base of the diary. I didn't realize they show up on the main community content page, because I have hardly been going there - I was almost entirely reliant on the streams. I'm glad I know now because it's a much easier way to track the essays that most interest you.

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3 users have voted.

" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

Good, for a second I thought I had one more item to put on my ToDo list. Thanks for the input, Phoebe.

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1 user has voted.
sensetolisten's picture

I don't think you took the time to read my diary, did you?

If you think I care about a "flame war" with DailyKos, you have no idea what I am saying here in my diary.

Please read it.

I was trying to diagnose a serious psychological problem.

I was actually trying to diagnose a serious psychological problem.

I actually think there is a serious psychological problem.

I have provided a extensive evidence and information in order to help people see that there actually is a serious psychological problem.

After reading my diary, do you want to honestly tell me that you do not agree, that there is a serious psychological problem?

I am not trained in this field, no, as I've mentioned in the diary, but the facts are pretty glaring. There is a massive history here of perpetual lying, really bizarre lying. Strange lies. It's not me. It's her. And I took the time to quote dozens of DailyKos members who have seen pretty much the identical thing.

And if Hillary Clinton has a serious psychological pathological problem, she needs to be removed from the race.

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7 users have voted.

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
kharma's picture

I mostly agree with the points of your diary but I don't think so much pathological. Yes Hillary is a liar but I think she is a calculating liar. She says what matters for Hillary.

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5 users have voted.

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

sensetolisten's picture

benefit Hillary, but that "Reagan & AIDS/HIV lie????"

How does that benefit Hillary?

Look, I figured that diary was my last participation in DK, so no, I have no interest in spending any more time there, so I appreciate completely agree with the sentiment that c99 is its own thing, but those comments and dairies were from DK, from Markos himself, so maybe that diary was my "reality-based" good-bye to DK, with an in-your-face here's the truth statement.

Hillary has a problem, many problems, and we need to expose them.

And all the while, the FBI investigation draws closer to a close.

LEGAL PROBLEMS???

Yeah, you could say that again.

I hope you see where I am going with this.

If she is indicted, I would bet money that she will be, some massive stuff is gonna come out in that implosion. And then she will pull out of the race, and then Obama is gonna pardon her, of course, because he doesn't want that scandal miring his last days in office. And that case would bring out too much stuff.

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3 users have voted.

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
TheOtherMaven's picture

IMHO it was a cynical, calculated ploy to reach out to Reaganites everywhere and reassure them that yes, she was on "their side". She seems to be stuck back in the pre-Internet era, when politicians could say anything with little if any chance of being caught out and called on it.

Nowadays you can't get away with it - but that just doesn't seem to penetrate her impermeable bubble.

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7 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

CambridgePulsar1919's picture

Agree completely.
My first thought upon watching her statement was 'she thinks Reagan Democrats are part of her base'.
Maybe she's right.

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5 users have voted.
sensetolisten's picture

...as caring about AIDS/HIV, do you? And any that do, would surely know the truth, so such a lie would only alienate her from that segment of that base.

Sorry, makes zero sense to me.

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2 users have voted.

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
CambridgePulsar1919's picture

Reagan Dems seem to enjoy pretending they didn't have a hand in the horror that was the Reagan/Thatcher era.
Hillary wouldn't want to make anyone feel unwelcome in her camp by stating the truth about what assholes the Reagans were.
'Big tent' full of rotten fish...

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3 users have voted.

to pick up any "rational" Repugnants left in this country. There are plenty of them still who revere Reagan, and they're more the type to reject Trump on the bigotry grounds. Not that many of them are not really bigots, but these would be your "respectable moderate" types, who just may swing over to her side because really, they don't want to seem bigoted and in the end, they only care about the economics. They are all neo-liberals after all. That was my very first thought too when she made that dumbass statement. That and she could really care two shits about anything honestly progressive. Shows her colors more than she and her supporters really care to admit.

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0 users have voted.
WoodsDweller's picture

but I don't think pathological.
She is someone who places no value on the truth, and so has a very low threshold for lying. She lies when she sees the least advantage to herself in doing so, thus a rational (if immoral) decision. Interestingly, her "tell" seems to be the only time she gives a forceful, straightforward answer to a question is when she is lying. Everything else is meandering obfuscation.
As TheOtherMaven observes

She seems to be stuck back in the pre-Internet era

and in fact seems to be stuck in the past in several ways. The Reagan comment (unbelievable in its tone-deafness) is probably a reflection of warm feelings she holds for the Reagans and nostalgia for those good old days. She wanted something positive to say for the occasion, and some wires crossed in her brain and she sort of remembered something about AIDS (which I doubt she gave two shits about at the time), so rubbish came out.
I always attributed the Bosnia thing to a fear-induced Walter Middy moment. She had probably worked herself up into a fear frenzy before she landed, and nothing happened, but what stuck in her mind was her fear, not the reality.
BTW, she is not alone in failing to adapt to the modern world. Back in the day, New Deal politicians learned how to campaign using radio, but never made the transition to television. Now many seem stuck in the TV era and don't understand the Google machine.
It's all much easier to just tell the truth than to try to maintain a web of lies.

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5 users have voted.

I like this world. It's not perfect, but everything I love is in it.

sensetolisten's picture

any sort of a clinical judgment, I am merely accumulating and studying the evidence. And I suspect, we will have more evidence of lies in the days and weeks to come.

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2 users have voted.

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
kharma's picture

How does that benefit Hillary?

She gets cred with Reagan worshippers.

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1 user has voted.

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

sensetolisten's picture

She gets cred with Reagan worshippers.

You may be right, though. And maybe she is thinking about the general election. But then, I would imagine a "Pathological liar" has a convoluted logic for how every lie benefits them in some way or another, not saying it is sound logical, but there probably is a logical progression in their mind. And this is where someone who is trained would have to take over, because that subtlety is beyond my laymen's armchair theories. I was actually posting this and providing all of the facts that I could find, in the hopes that someone who did have actual training and expertise in this field could add their two cents.

My gut feeling is that something is really amiss with her. My spidey sense is just screaming, "Don't let that one anywhere near the WH. She is not fit for duty!" ...and each time some new bizarre fairy tale comes out of her mouth, those feelings are reaffirmed stronger! And as I said in my diary, I felt like last week a certain Rubicon was crossed.

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1 user has voted.

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
Gerrit's picture

suggest though that the list, and the case for pathological lying you've assembled, is mixed in with a historical list of DK's corporate sell-out. I would separate the two lists. Then post the case for pathological lying separately. The DK case is most appropriate at GOS. Here we don't give a darn about DK; it's just bobbing in our wake.

I do think that Clinton will be indicted, if not along with her aides, then shortly thereafter in the process of discovery and plea bargaining. The publicly available evidence is already damning and I think the FBI have a lot more material they're keeping secure. The case you make will, one would think, be a part of the eventual prosecutorial strategy.

Let's think about how to use the list of her lies. We agree more or less with the material you've assembled. Sadly, it is wasted at the GOS, where ideological commitment makes it unviable. Here's where we are today.

The difference between the Clinton (neo-)liberals and the Bernie progressives is fast becoming as large as that on the other side between the racist corporatists and the racist fascists. These differences are fundamental and the public anger over the status quo is such that both assemblies of co-existing alliances are being torn apart. Following this election, we will have four de facto parties, plus the Greens. (I'm a Green Party member.)

Two of parties grasp already the case for her pathological lying: The democratic socialists and the racist fascists. The racist corporatists share the same worldview as that of Clinton's neo-liberal corporatists. They all live the same lies. So we have two parties who already understand she lies continuously and two who share her lies. I think that we Bernie democratic socialists could use the list of lies in private discussion with persuadable people.

Could you think about creating such a list of lies? Separate the DK list - then give it a ceremonial burning in your fireplace. Give thanks for the good experiences and good friends at DK and burn it. Then present the list of lies here - as is, and perhaps downplay the pathological because you're not a psychiatrist so that it doesn't detract from the really useful list of lies. What do you think?

Thank you for the hard work you have put into this. Reshape it as a persuasion tool. Best wishes, sensetolisten

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Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.

Bisbonian's picture

Big grin.

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4 users have voted.

"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

sensetolisten's picture

Although, several items were to illustrate the possibility of other disorders, like "psychopathy (sociopathy) and antisocial, narcissistic, and histrionic personality disorders."

And while, yes, some of the lies do serve the "corporate sell-out" agenda, (like "Single-Payer" and "Where was Bernie during her health care battle?") but they are still lies.

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3 users have voted.

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
joe shikspack's picture

I was trying to diagnose a serious psychological problem.

I was actually trying to diagnose a serious psychological problem.

I actually think there is a serious psychological problem.

perhaps if you are serious about this line of inquiry, a political community blog may not be your best resource.

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1 user has voted.
Stephen Carll's picture

Unless you praise HRC as the bestest, most wonderfullest candidate in history, you're an asshole. And after seeing what they're doing to you at GOS, I'm glad I can register "No Party Preference" here in CA and still vote for Bernie.

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16 users have voted.

“I'll show you politics in America. Here it is, right here. 'I think the puppet on the right shares my beliefs.' 'I think the puppet on the left is more to my liking.' 'Hey, wait a minute, there's one guy holding out both puppets!'”- Bill Hicks

I am not professionally qualified to discuss this, but my reaction upon reading about the AIDS response in the MSNBC interview was that there is a possibility of early onset Alzheimers. I would not wish that upon anybody, but it seems like a possibility that should be explored. There are instances when she seems to live in an alternate universe.

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6 users have voted.
sensetolisten's picture

So this is not a "new" thing.

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2 users have voted.

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
TheOtherMaven's picture

That's quite a rant, and while I admit the points are justifiable, IMHO it went on about twice too long.

I don't pretend to know what's in Mrs. Clinton's mind or how it works, but I have never - ever - seen a candidate for any major office, from any party, with such an appalling penchant for sticking their foot in their mouth so far, so hard and so often. (Yes that includes Bush the Lesser.)

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10 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

PastorAgnostic's picture

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1 user has voted.
sensetolisten's picture

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2 users have voted.

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman

But I admit I am curious about how the Bernie ban works out. I thought Kos would back down but so far he is holding firm, basically conducting a political purge of 60 percent of the people who were on his site before today. He's got support from some authoritarian personalities (aka hall monitors).

Kos is playing the same game as the corporate media. This morning on MSNBC's "Morning Joe" they said Trump needs 53 percent of the remaining Tea-GOP delegates, and he is the likely nominee. But Bernie needs 54 percent of Dem delegates and he has no chance!

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7 users have voted.

"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

CambridgePulsar1919's picture

Kos wouldn't be the first site to push out Berners.
I and many, many other people were forced out of another site by the 'Blue Team' HillBot admins.
And that was before the first primary had even taken place.
One of the female admins waded into comments and started trolling Berners, and then when they responded in kind, called in another admin to drop the ban hammer, citing 'misogyny' and other unspecified violations of the TOS.
Then after the fact they pasted a list of new rules of conduct for the primaries, and then promptly ignored them, allowing Hillary trolls to do their thing unrestrained, while banning Berners for simply asking for explanations or clarifications pertaining to the bannings/new rules. And many if not most of those banned were not newbies, they were well-respected members of that online community, who had shared camaraderie through the bad Bush years.
IMO, what we're seeing now is insiders with authoritarian personalities who couldn't give 2 flying frijoles about truth, fairness, or the 'democratic process'. They seem to embrace the same 'House of Lords' mind-set that created Superdelegates.

Oh, and as an addendum, let me state that those of us purged from that other site tried to get something like C99 going, but sadly fell short.
I hope this site remains viable, as it is very much needed as an antidote to the kind of trumpery that's dominant at Kos and elsewhere.

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3 users have voted.
sensetolisten's picture

So be it.

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2 users have voted.

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
dkmich's picture

It only matters if it is negative or positive. Getting into a pissing match with dailykos is a losing battle even when Markos agrees with your politics. Getting into a pissing match with dailykos and markos is asking to be banned. Much easier to log out and walk away.

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11 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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Gerrit's picture

profile into gibberish - very outlandish gibberish I might add Smile and walked away. I was sad at losing the connection with folks like you but the GOS made it difficult to maintain a peaceful heart. I was delighted to discover c99 and it's lovely to see so many good folks come over here to contribute. This site has so much potential.

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3 users have voted.

Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.

sensetolisten's picture

I did not mean it as a pissing match. They may be doing that, but that is not my motivation.

Just facts, m'am. Just. The. Facts.

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2 users have voted.

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
JayRaye's picture

bringing out the DSM.

Others have dx dementia or brain damage.

I think its better to point out the lies, all of them, no dx necessary.

She's the type of candidate that is continually lying, period. And that's the type of president she will be also. We were already lied into war by Bush, seems we should have learned our lesson that a liar as President who laughs at the deaths of others cannot possibly be a good thing, nor the "lesser" evil.

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10 users have voted.

Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons

Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

I'll just speak as a writer. When I write I usually do a stream of consciousness first version where I just write down everything that burbles up. And then I go back and edit ferociously and think, does that advance my argument, POV or whatever? Is that sentence to gratify me or the reader? I try to take out anything that can be misconstrued or slanted or lead to charges of misogyny, insensitivity, racism, sexism, bias, etc. That is one area where DK has been a great training ground and it makes you a better writer.

You had the kernel of a great diary, which was a well written and highly documented compendium of Hillary and her struggle with truth and reality. You could have and should have lost about 9/10ths of it, IMO. The inside baseball DK stuff about hide ratings and upvotes doesn't help anyone, is boring and derails your diary. I don't think many people care for amateur diagnoses of clinical diseases. Drawing attention to the behavior and letting people reach their own conclusions as to cause and motivations would have been the better road to getting your point across without alienating 90% of your reading audience. Plus, the diary was simply way too long. Sometimes writing one diary gives you the seed for 2 or 3 more.

I am sincerely offering these comments as constructive criticism from one writer to another. Just my opinion, take it or leave it.

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8 users have voted.

" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

sensetolisten's picture

If I wanted to spend more time on this, I would consider revising, but I really have spent too much time already. I would rather focus on the details of the Email Scandal.

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2 users have voted.

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

I was just sorry to see the main trunk of an epic diary get consumed by blog war kudzu. I always thought the secret to writing for Daily Kos was pretending you weren't writing for Daily Kos.

I'll look forward to anything you write about the email scandal. I've followed it closely and have seen all the derailment and obfuscation that has resulted. It was very eye-opening to see how shallow the ethical base of the Democrats really is, since they were/are willing to throw every tenet of open government and transparency and accountability out the door for Hillary's sake. Nothing has disgusted me more in modern politics than that.

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5 users have voted.

" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

Great advice from a great writer! Thanks.

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4 users have voted.
ArthurPoet's picture

Her lies are big time bizarro. It would explain quite a lot of what we are seeing, now that you mention it.

Hmmm....

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3 users have voted.

• Move Sooner, Not Faster •
(((../\..)))
Borkrom's picture

Welcome to the land of truth, do not be afraid this community wants and accepts knowledge.

I am so glad not to be in a echo chamber, I want to be engaged and learn new things and be with positive people that are fighting the good fight.

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5 users have voted.