Friday night photos - OT

Hope I don't get in trouble, and am not stepping on anyone's toes... but I don't see anything up yet, so figure everyone must be busy and behind as I am. I gotta go, can't stay, trying to crash to get up early for birding and bugging tomorrow...

Here's a pic or so...

I doubt you are getting enough Painted Bunting lately, so just in case...

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The lucky shot of the week
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Sabinal River bank - ferns and cypress roots
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Red-spotted Toad - came out in an inch plus of rain the other day
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Have at it folks, will try to check back, but no promises...

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Socialprogressive's picture

Nice shots of the Painted Bunting. Very colorful bird. I wish we had them here in San Diego.

A variety of roses from the Balboa park rose garden.

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When I offer to wash your back in the shower, all you have to say is yes or no.
Not all this "who are you, and how did you get in here?" nonsense.

dystopian's picture

@Socialprogressive I just love a bloomin' rose garden. It must have smelled great! Amazing examples too. Great photos SP!

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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

vtcc73's picture

Here is the Google drive photo cache of my raw photos taken at Laguna Llaviucu. The lake is an alpine wetlands area being reclaimed in the Cajas Mountains of the Andes near Cuenca, Ecuador. It's an activity run by the Cajas National Park but isn't actually in the park. The land is on an old Inca road through the Andes from the coast to Cuenca. There is an old abandoned brewery on the site hence the need for reclamation.

The diversity of plants is incredible. There are 5-6 microclimates with their specific ecosystems. The space of a few feet along the trail around the lake takes you from one to the next. Each has different climate and plant life. It's shocking how fast cool to cold and wet changes to dry, warm, and sunny. The trees are loaded with bromiliads, tilandsias, and orchids. Mosses and lichens fill in the few bare areas of every tree and rock.

The first time we climbed out of the car we were greeted by the cry of two gray breasted mountain toucans. We only caught enough of a glimpse to know it was a toucan. The next day we got closer to a pair foraging through trees bearing a favorite nut. Photos were nearly impossible without a decent camera and long lens. That first day we were shocked to find a few Andean gulls, Andean teals, and the spectacular Andean duck. The bill on that male duck is visible from a few hundred meters away.

We've been trying to go back every couple weeks at the least. Everything changes quickly at the lake. Colonies of orchids and tilandsias bloom in mass so it's easy to miss the best if we don't go frequently. Plus it's just a great place to walk. A guide friend says there are two guided hikes available, a one night and a two night, that originate higher in the park, ~14,000', and end at Laguna Llaviucu. The lake a couple km west has Inca ruins and is one of the night camp areas.

This past weekend there was the first of two open houses this year at Ecuagenera in Gualceo. The second of the year is in November. This is an orchid research, cloning/propagating, and retail sales operation. They ship all over the world and have research facilities all over Ecuador and South America. The owner also travels the world looking for new orchids. He said they're expanding into other plant types but that's going a bit slow. Here's the Google Drive photo cache from the past two shows combined.

I almost wish I had a better camera but I know how many decent ones I've had and seldom used. Right now everything we take is on two iPhone 6s. It's fairly good for the close ups of small things that we prefer over big and flashy. We both carry a clip on macro lens that takes some incredibly detailed photos. My wife is a genius with the thing. Unfortunately for you guys none of her stuff is in the links. I'm a hack. Anything that looks good is pure blind luck.

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vtcc73's picture

@vtcc73 @vtcc73 One of the hummingbirds who we thought was a male is a mama. There are two who hang out in the eucalyptos covered vacant lot next to our house. She is always in the patch in the back of the lot close to our terrace. She's out there singing and displaying, why we thought she was a he, every morning and afternoon. I'll try to share the photo of the two babies.

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Dawn's Meta's picture

@vtcc73 never get to see. Birds are a favorite thing for us, and have way too many books. Our greatest find is a Huppe, which is a pan Eurasian Bird. We've had them in our driveway, so I throw them grubs which eat my Petunias but they love.

Hoopoe

Our daughter and her fiancé saw one in Nepal and brought us a water color painted locally.

Accidentally, I looked up Cuenca, Spain, which is reachable for us and quite a surprisingly lovely place.

Cuenca, Spain

It's a UNESCO World Heritage Site.

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vtcc73's picture

@Dawn's Meta @Dawn's Meta Cuenca was the summer home to Inca kings and was first found by the Spanish in 1577. It is an oasis in so many ways. The climate is perfect. Our day varies by about only 20 minutes throughout the year so the temperatures are very consistent - 50 F -to 75 F. That's every day. There's no predicting the weather. The possibilities are sun, clouds, and rain. We get a combination of all three almost every day. We never know what order though.

The city is old but the infrastructure is constantly being improved and upgraded. We can get everything we need and most of the things we want. Most things take longer to do and are more cumbersome than people in North America are used to but that is offset by nearly everything else. For instance, it took parts of several days over three weeks to renew my car registration. The dealer had registered it in a small town with much lower taxes. My data wasn't in Cuenca's database. It took three weeks and talking to the right person to sort it all out. Next year it will take most of a day to do everything. Then this morning I had to have a screw removed from a tire and the tire repaired. 20 minutes later and the princely sum of $2.50 sent me on my way. The guys I used had excellent tire mounting and repair tools in a shed. They did as good a job as any I've seen in the states. My neighbor who told me about them has been here off and on 28 years and is married to a Cuencana. I gave them $5 and I still feel like I cheated them.

The city and people welcome expats. The city spent 2017 doing a study of how to better integrate the ~8000 strong expat community into the local culture. The report and the city's response are very positive with ideas. It was easy to become a part of the local neighborhood. It would be better if I had any decent skill in Spanish but we get by quite well. Our house hadn't even been completed before we became involved in installing an improved water system. We're also working on extending the city sewer to our two streets in the hills going up into the first of the Cajas mountains.

Terrace view.jpg
On a perfect day.

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A more common cloudy day. I think that I've seen more rainbows here in 18 months than in the rest of my life. I couldn't find the 4 or 5 double rainbow shots.

The best part of Cuenca is the people. They treasure family and peace. I've never known such hard working, fun loving folks. They do more with less than I've seen anywhere else in the six continents I've traveled. We visited for the climate, awesome diverse environment, easy living, and chose to return permanently because of the people. I've never made a better decision in my life.

Ecuador is very accessible for a visit or for a permanent home. Air fares from the US are very inexpensive and the flights aren't that long. It's a small country but is one of the most diverse on the planet with a clean environment. Travel within the country is easy but takes time. The trip from Quito is 55 minutes by air but 8-9 hours through the Andes by car/van. It's worth the drive though. There are several companies who offer reasonably priced group tours or design individual ones for a little more money. (I used Latin Frontiers and will again when we begin a wider exploration of South America. I can't recommend them any higher.) Almost everything needed by a tourist is shockingly cheap here as well. Plus the people seem to like having us here.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@vtcc73 @vtcc73

for all the excellent info and photos. We've been planning to leave since 2000.

As it turns out, for us, a better fit might be (not certain) the southernmost part of SA--likely Uruguay. But, we're looking at Argentina, as well. Although, if you keep talking about Ecuador, we might be convinced to reconsider. Smile (Worried a bit about the government, now that Correa's gone.)

Anyhoo, especially, appreciate the 'tip' about the SA tour group--Latin Frontiers. Just turned up this info from their website, and, will definitely contact them. There is the possibility that we'll wing it, and go on our own, since we've already lived in a Latin American county. OTOH, there's something to be said from seeing a place with guides who know it. At any rate, only have several more days 'til my phone plan turns over, and, I'll have international calling. Can't wait! Smile

Hope you continue to post photos. From all that I've seen, it is a very beautiful country. The one thing I don't like about Uruguay--other than the sky high VAT Tax--there are no real 'mountains.' Not good, IMO. But, so far, not a deal killer.

Have a good one!

Pleasantry

Mollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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vtcc73's picture

@Unabashed Liberal I've not visited either but a friend returned from a several week trip to both and has spent time in Chile and Peru. He said that he likes Argentina the best but doesn't see living in any of them as possible. Security is a major concern but it is varies with specific locations just like it does in Ecuador. All of my research indicated that Ecuador was the best of the lot from the standpoint of security, cost of living, the US dollar is the official currency here, and the relative ease of obtaining permanent residency status. From every direction Cuenca looks superior to anything in Ecuador. I'd prefer using here as a base and traveling which is very easy to do.

The VAT is 12% which is about average in South America. Other taxes are rock bottom. The taxes on our house and land run $87/year on a roughly $400k valuation. The only other tax expense is vehicle registration which is based on vehicle value. I paid $1400 for a new Kia this year but it will decrease rapidly. The high cost of new vehicles helps maintain very high resale values though.
Our monthly costs run less than $3000/month and we don't really skimp on anything. Many friends live on Social Security and a small amount of savings. Technology and imported items are expensive but everything else is dirt cheap. Bus ride $.25, taxi $1.50 minimum to a few dollars to go anywhere in town. Breakfast, lunch, or dinner $2.50-$7 in a restaurant. There is always more food than we should eat. Shopping in the markets costs a fraction of using the supermarket but we still do very well for less than $100/week at the supermarket. Cell service $23/month for 150 minutes and 1.5 GB cell data. Everyone uses WhatsApp whose cell data is free for text, calling, and locations/addresses. There's free city supplied Wi-Fi in many public locations like parks. DirecTV is $30-75/month for most anything and 50 GB up/down FIOS is ~$200 on the edge of town where I live. In town it is $50-75/month. You can do better price-wise, but not customer service, from several other TV and internet providers. Health insurance equivalent to our very good insurance in the US is $117/month for each of us but health care prices are a small fraction of the US. $25/visit doctors, who also do house calls, and medications that are less, a small fraction, than our copays in the US when paying full retail are the standard. You do have to be sure that any meds that you need are available though. We haven't had a problem but I know some who have. A very nice Australian couple moved back to Oz after 7 years here when she suddenly could no longer obtain a critical med. You get the idea, it's cheap here. There are also considerable discounts on utilities, taxes, bus fares, and other things if you're 65 or older. There are senior lines and seniors are allowed to jump lines. If you don't step to the front on your own, like me, the guards usually take you there on their own. I'll use that perk when I've earned in in my eyes and I need it.

Marcelo is the owner of Latin Frontiers. (He also recently opened a small boutique hotel near the airport in Quito. His wife runs it day-to-day.) He's a great guy to work with building a trip. He often works the chat on their site in the evenings. Try the chat. You may get him. They only do selected countries in SA but he can probably offer an alternative if he can't meet your needs in another country. Tell him I sent you. He will design any trip you want and can negotiate a little on price. (Haggling is a time honored tradition in Ecuador.) You can also try his package group tours if you like. Both of the guides we had here have become friends. The guides in Ecuador go through a 2-3 year, yes, year training program to become certified to be a guide. It is a university level program that covers history, geology, indigenous peoples, plant and animals, environment, climate, languages, hell, everything we thought to ask about. These two are the only two people I know who come close to my wife's plant/gardening knowledge. The indigenous and medical use was, of course, well beyond her knowledge but this is their backyard. The tours included transfers between Quito and Cuenca by air, car/van driven by the guide, some meals, lodging with a choice, and friendly, expert company. I'm really fond of these two guides as well as Marcelo.

The political change with Correa's departure is as unwelcome as it was a surprise. I hate seeing the government cozy up to the US. The people here want better, easier lives with better paying jobs. They have forgotten the 1990s goat buggery of their country's economies by the US. This, IMO, is another example of the people not knowing their own history and who is really behind keeping their incomes and standards of living down. More neoliberal games for fun and profit by the moneyed bastards. The average age here is about 30 so it's no wonder they don't know what isn't taught.

Cuenca is an oasis in this respect too. To everyone's surprise we have a new mayor who is an indigenous person. He came from out of nowhere to win handily. He hasn't hesitated to shake up the good ol' boy power structure so far. The first thing he did was delay the new tram's, Tranvia, service entry for seven months. It's long delayed, well over budget, and wanted by the people but the old mayor refused to fight the interests of the bus service owners and fix very real problems of integrating Tranvia into traffic. They also are back pedaling on affordable fares. This is all stuff that should have been settled in the planning stage but was left to fester. He's having none of it. Good on him.

I hope you figure out what you want to do where you want to go. This has been one helluva life reset and adventure. It's a bit daunting to consider but was surprisingly easy once we got into doing something. You know where to find me if you have any questions.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@vtcc73

around, kibitzing for quite a while today--while my Spouse waits on me to resume working on some spreadsheets for him (they have to do with his impending retirement). So, unfortunately, I've got to run and help him for a while. However, I'll be back to reply to you, as soon as I can cut loose, and take a break.

Hey, really appreciate the time you've taken to furnish us so much info about Cuenca. It sounds like a fascinating and very beautiful place.

A number of years ago, I followed the blog of a couple who expatriated there, and thought it sounded pretty much like Paradise. IOW, almost too good to be true. But, from what you've said, doesn't sound like they exaggerated. (We also know folks who visited Ecuador--including Cuenca, for months--and really liked it, but, one of them had serious medical problems that complicated things for them. So, they had to return stateside.) Mr M and I may have to start 'rethinking' our plans.

Biggrin

Seriously, will catch back up with you (here), later.

Mollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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vtcc73's picture

@Unabashed Liberal @Unabashed Liberal Our exploratory trip was in January 2017. We used Latin Frontiers owned by Marcelo Bolanos (SP?). They have a group "Retiring in Ecuador" tour they were trying to fill up. I want to say it's September but I'm not sure. There was no group planned when we wanted to come down here and we really wanted more flexibility including extra days free here in Cuenca. I had a visa attorney I wanted to meet with as well as a couple of her associates for things like household goods shipments and rentals/real estate. We wanted to explore on our own since it was our area of interest. Like you everything seemed too good to be true.

The plan Marcelo put together followed the group plan. We started by being picked up by our guide, Freddy Nasevilla, Freddy Nashville he's called. Since we were living south of Nashville I think this was Marcelo's sense of humor showing. We were with Freddy for about five days. We visited and stayed in Old Town Quito then left for two night to Otavalo and Cotacachi in the north. We stayed at 500 year old Hacienda Pinciqui. Neat place and only recently not farmed. The it was back to Quito for the flight to Cuenca.

We stayed at the Hotel Santa Lucia two block from the cathedral and Parque Calderon in el Centro. That's right in the middle of everything. We spent a few days in and around Cuenca before driving south to Loja and Vilcabamba for two nights in an eco hotel. Interesting place is Vilcabamba. It's lower ~5000' vs 8500' for Cuenca and much warmer being subtropical. It's a very nice place to live but had way too many expats for our tastes. Then it was back to Cuenca and five days free at the Santa Lucia.

Our guide for the Cuenca was Eddy Ochoa. Eddy and I stayed in contact and do to this day. He was also our transport for our free days. That was an arrangement between us. Without his assistance we might not have moved here. He was available to show us the good living locations closer to nature and less city. It was exactly what my wife needed to see when we needed it most.

I showed up in Quito, ~11,000', with the beginnings of the mother of all upper respiratory infections. I thought I had pneumonia by day 3 and had been torched in the strong ecuatorial sun at high altitude. I was miserable. I could barely breathe, walk, or sleep. I sounded and looked like I had TB. I can't remember feeling worse in a long time. I felt terrible for over a month. Yet it was the best vacation/trip ever. I liked it that much. It says a lot that we chose to move here.

We also met with Sara Chaca the visa attorney. Sara spent a lot of time answering our questions and passed us to Paul for relocation services and a realtor for temporary and/or permanent housing. These two also convinced us this was a good idea and very doable. Sara is still my attorney and Paul moved us. I'm seeing Sara on Monday to discuss what we need to do to apply for our permanent residency visas in November/December. She did all of the building contracts, helped with obtaining a drivers license and about a dozen other things like banking and my wife's and son's CDs that secure their investor visas. I'm here on a pensioner visa. They could have been included on my visa but they would have risked losing the ability to stay here if anything happened to me. Sara suggested this and much more that makes our life better. We used a realtor who I contacted after we returned to Franklin. She found us exactly what we had been looking for and the best deal on building a house I have ever imagined. That builder and his family are now friends without whose help this would have been a more difficult experience. The house wasn't a planned event. It fell into our lap and we had the courage to run with it. It was one helluva challenge, scary even, but was exactly right for us.

Wherever you decide to look I strongly suggest doing a trip like we did and spend a month to six months before jumping in without a net. It worked for us and many others but there are risks. Two months or more are easy to do here. A decent furnished apartment can be had in el Centro for $500/month or even less or more if you like. Living is cheap and easy plus you can discover all of the things you like, don't like, and how to live here before doing it for real. Either way it's a nice vacation at a minimum.

I'll be around later too.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@vtcc73

of information. I mean, a lot to digest. Again, thank you!

Either tomorrow, or Monday evening (as soon as I, hopefully, finish the spreadsheet project) I'll show up with questions for you, probably, taking the info, paragraph by paragraph. Gonna see if I can print your comments, in a minute, so that I can work off of them.

Hey, don't worry--I don't mean that literally every sentence will invoke a question from me--but, imagine that most paragraphs might bring one, or two questions to mind. If that's okay.

If we were to decide to check out Cuenca and/or Quito, we'll likely do it during one of the 'hottest' months. That's because I really can't tolerate heat well, and would want to know firsthand, what to expect (if we moved there). Mr M isn't quite as adversely affected by it, but, the past couple years, or so, he's grown more heat adverse, too. So, wherever we land in retirement, it needs to be less hot than the US southern states.

One of the things that I recall hearing/reading about Ecuador, is that much of it is in higher elevations. We lived at high elevations in Mexico, as well, and, very much enjoyed the mild climate. We'd have to double-check with Mr M's physician (cardiologist) to make sure that the higher elevation(s) wouldn't be detrimental to his health. Otherwise, like me, he prefers a mountainous terrain, over a coastal one.

Gotta admit, since we haven't traveled out of the country in about 15 years, I didn't realize how much international air fares had gone up. And, we'll be moving with two pets--a now, almost 8-month old Pup, and, a relatively soon-to-be 30-year-old Cockatiel.

We know, from flying our Parakeet from Interior Alaska, that both pets need to be flown carefully--was called, "counter to counter." Luckily, we were able to 'ferry' our 3 dogs back to the Lower 48, with us. My point being that I had to laugh at myself, since I suggested (to Joe) the other day that we might 'flit up and down' to Uruguay every quarter, so that I could avoid paying the 22 percent VAT Tax. Ha! Don't think so--now that I've checked the cost if air fare!

Biggrin

Of course, another nice thing about Ecuador is that the VAT is considerably lower than Uruguay's--almost by half. IMO, a 12 percent VAT wouldn't be that bad, at all.

Looking forward to more discussion, so, will try to get my odious chore behind me, ASAP.

Have a good one.

Pleasantry

Mollie

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vtcc73's picture

@Unabashed Liberal Temperature, altitude, and pets were on our concerns list too.

Quito is generally slightly warmer, drier, and higher than Cuenca. The temperatures don't vary much in either place. The range is a bit higher in Quito and the sun is both stronger and present more than Cuenca. The 2000-2500' elevation difference means much higher UV levels. Still, both are comfortable climates year round. Here in Cuenca we see more clouds and rain in general and the temperature ranges from 50F to 75F year round. Last weekend we got the first shot of "winter" weather. Saturday and Sunday barely got above 50F and it dropped into the low 40s overnight. This next one is important. Neither place has houses with either heat or air conditioning. It's not necessary hardly ever. A fireplace or an electric heater is sufficient for the handful of cold nights. Warm clothes and plenty of blankets makes for great sleeping weather.

I, like your husband, suffered greatly in middle TN from the heat, humidity, and mosquitoes. We lived there for almost 30 years but since I was flying roughly 12-15 days every month I didn't get the full effect of any of them until I retired. I developed upper respiratory and skin problems that were likely allergic reactions. I got so I'd break out into hives when I went outside and I was constantly congested. I came to hate the place and had to move somewhere.

I lost about 15 pounds preparing to move and another nearly 25 after we got here. Part was due to a much higher activity level but better quality food and the higher caloric requirements of high altitude probably had a greater effect. I also lost all of my allergies. I had humongous tonsils since I was a child. They were down to nothing within three months of arriving here. I still suffer a little dry skin and irritation from the sun and when it is warmer than normal. It's very minor compared to TN and Lubriderm and/or a good sunscreen nearly eliminate skin irritation.

The experience of our exploratory trip and having an upper respiratory infection worried me somewhat. I shouldn't have been concerned. It takes 2-4 weeks to acclimatize to the altitude. Altitude sickness symptoms generally occur in the first month if you're going to have them. That's another reason to spend a month here before moving. The crazed amount of activity the first months here were good for us. I was walking a few hundred feet up and down the hill several times a day to check on the construction and to go higher on the mountain to explore. We became accustomed easily. I'm fine running around up to about 13,5000' now. Tres Cruces is another favorite place in the Cajas Park. It's 13,666'. I'm fine hiking around plant watching for about two hours before I feel the altitude. Altitude is not a problem for us living at 9100'.

All of us, including two dogs and four cats, are healthier and feel better than we have in many years. Food, climate, higher activity levels, and a no stress life have worked wonders. Even my wife's best buddy, a 13 year old arthritic Pit, is doing much better. Better health is probably the best result of living here. We expected some health improvements but nothing like this.

Moving pets is harder than anything we did preparing to move. It's also expensive. I won't go into detail because it's a long, long story. The only really good news is there is help available. Every US airline requires a certified pet shipping agent for international air travel. It's the airlines' way for deflecting responsibility for dead and lost pets. The good thing is that international pet shipping is horribly complex and you need all the help you can get. I have someone that we used who I trust completely. Without her services we'd have given up because we would never leave our animals. This is the most serious obstacle any of us face moving abroad. It has to be resolved before you decide to move. I'm sorry but I'm not overstating the difficulties involved. Casandra will happily help you understand the process and provide what you need to decide.

Researching an international move is a long hard process. We returned to the States in early February 2017 knowing we thought living here was doable and quite attractive to us. The decision wasn't made until nearly June. In the interim we began preparing the house to sell, remodeling and updating, and getting rid of 22 years of things we didn't need or want to take with us. Every day involved hours of education, research, and building a plan. It was one of the busiest years of my life and second only to the first year in Cuenca. The other item not to overlook is language. Start working on Spanish right now if you're not fluent already. Having intermediate or better Spanish skill will greatly reduce the stress of building a new life in SA.

I'll look for your questions.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@vtcc73

addressing those concerns. More questions coming, but, probably Monday, considering the lack of progress. Or, maybe I'll get lucky. Smile Will continue posting here, if that's okay.

(Only reason we're still up now--it's 1:13 am, here--is because we hate not to listen, on XM Radio, to the historic meeting at the DMZ. If it doesn't happen, soon, though, we'll have to miss it.)

Mollie

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@vtcc73

here either Wednesday or Thursday. From all the wealth of info that you've already provided, I'm trying to do a little bit of research, so that I can be more concise, and, hopefully, better formulate my questions (to you)--if that makes sense. Smile

BTW, Mr M says to 'thank you' for taking the time to share your vast knowledge on this subject--both expatriation, and, obviously, Ecuador.

(The pesky spreadsheets that I'm working on for Mr M, will help him make a couple of important decisions. So, I can't afford to give them short shrift, so to speak.)

BTW, I couldn't locate it just now, but, did stumble across a couple of blurbs about the senior 'discount program.' Also, saw a blurb that stated--can't believe it's true, but, hope it is--that 'seniors' (age 65 and older) can be reimbursed the 12% VAT tax. Think it may involve some heavy duty paperwork--but, being a retired Federal bureaucrat, I'm pretty certain that I can handle that. Heck, it's almost second nature. Biggrin

If I'm correct (not absolutely sure), this is not true of the Uruguayan 22% VAT--or, so far, haven't seen anything stating that it's reimbursable--aside from shorter stays of 90-days, and less.

Again, thanks for your help on such an important matter (to us).

(please excuse typos--couple of stiff fingers, today)

Later.

Mollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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vtcc73's picture

@Unabashed Liberal Write when you can. Real life comes first and preparing for retirement is one of those things that you have to get right. It's both exciting and scary with so much hope tempered by uncertainty.

I had an appointment with my attorney this morning. Sara has a booming residency visa business that is really a single point of contact, full service operation for newly arrived expats. She offers everything from preparing and processing visa applications, real estate/rental referrals, wills, financial/insurance advice and US tax preparation, banking, relocation services, language tutor services, and almost any question you can ask. She does it through a loose network of associate businesses. She has the contacts and freely shares them as well as her time and local knowledge. Her website is Ecuadorvisas.com. It has a lot of information that may help you think of questions to ask.

Anyway, I got the latest rundown on the visa application process. It was possible to get a permanent residency visa without ever setting foot in Ecuador when we first came here to look around. That was changing then but implementation date was a question. It did change and the current process requires two year's living here under a temporary residency visa after which you apply for the permanent visa. The change muddied the water. The double process increased costs and effort but was definitely the right solution to the flawed process that allowed some bad actors into the country who had a right to remain here regardless of the problems they caused. We're beginning the permanent application process soon. Sara wanted to inform me of the changes and review the documents we would need compared to what we already had here. I'm relieved that the process is somewhat streamlined from 18 months ago.

We'll get into more detail when I have your questions but I'll reply to your latest now. Yes, there is a senior discount and other perks. Utilities, public transportation (airfare on TAME too!) and taxes are less for seniors. Many business offer discounts too. There are senior lines at government offices, banks, most large businesses, and a senior can go to the front of any line where there aren't special facilities. The VAT can be partially or fully refunded as I understand. I don't need the refund and I feel that I have the means and an obligation to contribute here as I am able. The few dollars I might get back or save are more useful to the people of Cuenca than they would be sitting in my bank account. I'm seriously grateful to my hosts for allowing us to live here. Everybody else has to choose based on their circumstances and their sense of obligation. One day I'll probably need to go to the front of the line but by then I'll feel that I have earned it. That's only me. What others do is up to them but I'm not the only expat who feels this way. I've found that most expats here have a more heightened sense of civic responsibility than I ever saw in the US. The people of Cuenca, in general, have a strong "we're all in this together" attitude. (Many of the ones with real money not so much.) It's very refreshing.

The cost of living here is very low. I think $2000 to $2500 is the practical lower limit for monthly expenses if you want to travel and occasionally return to the US and live comfortably and securely. Our expenses are much lower than we expected and the availability of things we want exceeds what we need. Imported and higher tech items are hard to impossible to find and/or more expensive than in the US. We brought all of the new new appliances (the wrong ones in a couple cases because our plans changed), computers, phones, cameras, clothes, linens, beds, electric power tools, and furniture in our container that we thought we would need. We brought too much but we didn't know what was and wasn't available or the costs. That's the biggest advantage of an extended stay prior to deciding to jump into the deep end.

I can confidently say that if your husband's calculations point to a secure financial life in retirement in the US that you will have no problems here whatsoever. We use roughly 1/3 of my retirement income and we really don't hesitate to do what we want. I'll gladly get into my money and banking experience later if you want. That may useful to his planning.

Let's leave it here for now. Write when you find the time and have prepared. I'd like to suggest that you send me a PM here so we can exchange emails and other contact information as you feel is safe to you. That way we won't clutter up this thread any more. I've been thinking of opening a new OT thread for expat discussion but I don't really have a sense that it would be worth the trouble. I'm interested in your opinion.

Later.

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"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

Unabashed Liberal's picture

@vtcc73

as I was going to cut out.

From what you've provided, and I've dug up--sounds more than affordable. Definitely, less expensive than Uruguay. (Haven't gotten that far, checking out Argentina.)

Mr M's first profession was in economics/finance--so, almost everything he does is very carefully calculated. IOW, he doesn't get out of bed, unless he "run's the numbers." Biggrin Just kidding! That IS an exaggeration. But, he doesn't do anything 'on a whim,' that's for sure.

Well, on the VAT tax--we can't divest ourselves of property (real estate) that quickly; so, we're not likely to move to Ecuador, full-time, for quite a while. We have two residences, currently, and with that, a sizable tax load. Having said that, if, at some point, we do participate in their public and/or private healthcare system(s)--we'd definitely feel compelled to pay into the VAT Tax system. Smile

Hey, 'thank you' for the clarification. Obviously, one can't trust everything 'on the internets,' so, I feel that I have to take a lot of it with a grain of salt, until I know otherwise.

Think it's a great idea--starting an Expat Thread (or, whatever). I suppose this Photography Thread has been hijacked for long enough! Pleasantry And, do feel free to shoot me a PM, any time. I 'may' have to skip logging in (one day), but, obviously, would answer you, immediately.

Hey, have a good one. Later.

Mollie

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@Unabashed Liberal
Got this from another site today...

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) approved a second installment of over US$2.5 billion to Ecuador for economic development, Friday, the agency reported.

At first glance, the proposals seems to promise improvements to the South American society. However, on further analysis, the IMF letter demands an increase in public sector layoffs by 50 percent, a decrease in the country's economy, strengthening of dollarization in the country that has been using the U.S. currency since 2000, and tax increases.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@QMS @QMS

and, just saw your comment.

Thank you! I greatly appreciate any info on the country.

(Was sorry to hear that Correa 'termed out.' Hopefully, the current Prez won't be terrible--meaning, too much of a neoliberal!)

Also, if vtcc73 does put up a new 'Expat Thread' (or, Ecuador Thread, or, whatever) hope you, and everyone will join in the discussion. Personally, anything about travel is always interesting to me, regardless of whether I have any intention of visiting a place.

And, as they say--"Two heads, are better than one." In the case of C99, "several thousand heads, eh?"

Biggrin

Have a good one, and stay cool.

('Feel like' temps are mid-90's for us, today.)

Mollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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vtcc73's picture

@QMS @QMS since Morreno took his sharp turn right and cuddle fest with the Tumpistas. His promise is more jobs, better pay but anyone with the slightest memory of the 1990s and how the IMF and World Bank gutted SA knew this was coming.

Ecuador needs an economic boost but this isn't the way for the average person to improve their lives. The result of this will be the theft of natural resources in exchange for enrichening the money players in Ecuador. The average age here is about 30. Hardly any of them have the slightest clue about their history or how this game has been run on them before. I've tried explaining it to a few but their eyes glaze over generally learning nothing. They want better lives is all. They work harder than any people I've known, are painfully honest, and, while mostly educated, that education doesn't prepare them for this level of exploitation. It's evil in every way.

I guess I need to start looking at what the government is telling the people. I haven't seen anything about layoffs although this is the second time I've heard these demands by IMF. They're like a fucking broken record that everyone has heard but don't remember. I've heard of several protests recently in Cuenca but not the reasons. One was over the delay of the tram, Tranvia. The new mayor, indigenous for the first time, shut it down for seven months to force the bus companies to coordinate schedules and cut excessive service. The traffic problems were never adequately addressed in planning or the tests but have to get fixed. The people want the damned busses and their clouds of smoke from low quality diesel gone. I think the mayor will solve the problems and is the right person at the right time for Cuenca. We'll see.

Edit: The demand for an increased reliance on the dollar is a direct shot at the Chinese. They have invested massive amounts into the manufacturing and infrastructure sectors in Ecuador. It's also possibly an oil grab attempt. The economy here would be moving along fine if oil prices weren't so depressed.

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vtcc73's picture

@Unabashed Liberal @Unabashed Liberal Maintaining coverage is a condition for the residency visa. That's one of the items that was strengthened with the immigration overhaul. They enforce it now where they weren't too strict before. IESS, the public health care system is decent but has constraints like any system that isn't universal. (Expats over 65 can participate in IESS at very low rates. One friend who has been here off and on for 28 years and is married to a Cuencana uses it.) The private system forces the poor on to the IESS and pulls money from those who can afford better care. Both are efficient, provide good care, and private insurance is incredibly inexpensive by our standards but the system needs tweaked to protect it.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@vtcc73

initially.

A quick search brought up a little info (which I'll ask about in more detail, later) about the public system you mentioned. Says that 'visitors' to Ecuador are eligible to receive care in that system, if needed. (if I understood it, correctly).

Until Mr M and I are in a position to drop our current very comprehensive medical coverage (since we'd be stateside enough of the time to take care of medical needs)--I'm 'thinking' that we might be better off not applying for a resident/pensioner Visa. IOW, until and/or unless we truly know 'what we were going to do.' Smile

Anyhoo, your discussion also enabled me to search for more info, so, glad you brought up the topic. Clearly, being able to have excellent healthcare coverage is at the very top of our list of priorities.

Mollie

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vtcc73's picture

@Unabashed Liberal @Unabashed Liberal spent time here several times over a few years. I have three friends who are out of the country now who plan to return permanently by year's end. All of them had business interests in South America or around other parts of the world. One is Slovenian, one Slovakian, and one from Dallas. The folks from Dallas just left a week ago. I think that is the best way to choose a place unless you know for sure one particular place is just right for you.

An application is not required for a plain vanilla tourist visa. Just entering the country with your passport is all that is required. The time limits for tourist visas is 90 days per year. That can be extended to 180 days/year by applying for an extended class of tourist visa. It has a cost but it isn't that much as I remember. That kind of information is on Sara's website.

Under the revised temporary residency visa you can be absent from Ecuador for a total of 90 days during any calendar year. Once you have a permanent residency visa you can be absent from the country for up to five years at a time or pay a fine to keep the visa. I'm not entirely certain of the exact rule but a permanent resident can vote after three years and can apply for citizenship after three years. I seem to remember that becoming a citizen does not require renouncing your US citizenship or surrendering your passport. The residency and immigration laws have the fewest restrictions that we found during our research. The point is that there are a lot of ways to live here all the time or flit all over the world while being a resident. The only big restriction to leaving the country is during the first two years. But even that has become more liberal. The first interpretation of the new law required a criminal background check by the FBI and the state police in your home state be included in the permanent application if you left for any time during the first two years. That has been eliminated since.

This stuff gets complicated and is why I decided to hire Sara to shepherd us through the process. They are stickler for paperwork and the rules are interpreted differently depending on where you apply. The amount of paperwork you need from the US and the pain it is to chase it down is quite a job. Doing it from here is really expensive too. The good part is that you can do it in the States before ever setting foot here. I know that the money we spent for an immigration attorney was well spent. Plus I now have an attorney I trust and can use for life.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@vtcc73

as though the plain vanilla 'Tourist' Visa might fit the bill, since it can be extended to cover 180 days (per year). We've still not decided if we want a part-time, or full time residency outside of the US. So, until we figure it out, a one-half year Visa eligibility would probably be perfect for us.

(There are more than a few considerations. We've discussed, at some length, whether we think we should keep a residence in the US, and, so far, the answer is 'yes.' Possible future complex medical needs play into this decision, considering all that Mr M has gone though for the past 2/1-2 years. Maybe, if enough time passes, without further complications, we won't feel quite as strongly about this. We'll see.)

Hey, went to start printing your comments, to find out my printer doesn't work. Actually, it's the browser that is fouled up, I believe--can't clear the queued documents, for some reason. That is, in Firefox. The printer 'test page' works. So, I'll see if I can print them using the Chromium-based browser that I rarely use (because I don't think it's secure).

Anyhoo, we're going to make a couple of 'day-trips' over this long weekend. Once I get the info printed, I can work on questions (since Mr M routinely does most of the driving). I'm usually the relief driver, and, we don't have a long drive, since we're not going to the Gulf Coast. (just down the road for recreation, etc., two days)

BTW, touched base with Dystopian--he was very gracious, and said that it's fine with him if we want to continue to use this OT to finish the current discussion. So, that's good. Pleasantry

Hey, if you and your Family still celebrate the Fourth in Cuenca--have a good one. I'll try to keep my queries at a manageable level. As is probably obvious, I can be rather long-winded. But, with effort, I can occasionally manage to be somewhat concise. Or, at least, not all over the place!

Mollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@vtcc73

one question (for now) - Mr M and I were talking, and agree that, if we were to decide to give Ecuador a shot, an initial visit should probably be at least, 45-60 days. Maybe, 90 days.

Question:

Because I (especially) detest hot weather, what are the very worse--meaning, hottest months--if you were to narrow it to 2-3 months of the year. We figure it'd be wise for us to travel at a time that we think we'd be a little less comfortable, weatherwise.

Then, we'd at least know 'the worse of it.' And, the normally cooler weather, would just be icing on the cake. Smile

Again, thanks for all the info. I could print it out on my Chromium-based browser. (but, still can't figure out what happened to Firefox--very strange)

Have a nice weekend!

Pleasantry Mollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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Dawn's Meta's picture

@vtcc73 to the coast at Manta. They had a small new house built, but shipped lots including doors from Thailand. Our US house was the last one he worked on before retirement.

So glad you like your choice of expat home. It's good to find a place to call home. You are right about the local citizens and us expats fitting in. It's important to understand what is important to our host country.

We have lots of paperwork too. But have found if we patiently click every item on whatever list we have, and don't skip steps, it usually turns out ok. Our rural France standard of living is at least 30% less than our rural US costs. Retirement would have been difficult stateside. The transportation makes facing old age much brighter. We are seven minutes from a train to Lyon which has rail and air to really anywhere.

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A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

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vtcc73's picture

@Dawn's Meta I'd say the most important skill is language. Speaking and reading lessen some of the culture shock and allow you to work through problems easier. I've been studying Spanish going on three years. I don't get nearly enough practice speaking so it's my weak point. I read well enough and can write because I have time to consider what I want to say. Understanding take an ear I don't have yet and speaking seems to be on a different dimensional plane to me. Technology makes all things possible so I get by well enough. It's also a crutch that slows progress.

I'd have loved to live in southern France. I spent 18 months in Chatareux (SP?), south of Paris 100 KM or so, as a baby. I can often get the gist of a conversation but that's about all. Lovely land though.

The cost of living here is incredibly inexpensive. Anything imported and technological is expensive due to taxes. A top end, here, Kia Sportage with most of the gadgets disabled was $44k for a vehicle that would be about $30k or less in the States. Everything else to live from housing, food, public transportation, entertainment, etc. is a small fraction of the US. I find it hard spending $3000/month even though we just built a house and continue sinking money into it. I have lots of expat friends living on Social Security, small savings, and little more. It's easily doable but I'd not want to try to get by on less than about $2000/month. Working is hardly worth the time unless you have something very useful or telecommute.

The people who were going to buy the house we used while ours was being built lived in Manata. Beautiful place, I hear. Too hot, but at least it's humid, and too many mosquitoes. Crime and people's attitudes are not close to those found in Cuenca. This is the biggest reason I say cuenca is an oasis. The rest of Ecuador is relatively safe compared to most of SA but is considerably less so than Cuenca. They were more than ready to leave Manta despite having a small business there. Unfortunately, both had houses whose contracts fell through not long before our house was finished. They're a nice couple. I hope they find their way here.

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"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

dystopian's picture

@Dawn's Meta For a lot of folk here in America, Hoopoe is one of their 'most wanted' birds when they get to Eurasia. Nothing like it. I have never seen one/been where they are, but have seen lots of footage of that very fancy bird.

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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

boriscleto's picture

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" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "

@boriscleto
That is a crazy bunch. Becoming familiar with their language. It is what I would speak if I could grow feathers!
Oooooooooo in the middle of the night. Really reverberates across the water. Ooooooooo

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dystopian's picture

@QMS What sounds! In the eastern Sierra some lakes like June or better Convict, with steep granite walls on all sides, about 10 of them get going at once and it gets to echoing, it is surreal to say the least. There is a drinkable cheap California wine called Smoking Loon that is worth the $10.

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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

@QMS
warble (not the long cry), you can get them to talk to you. Depending on the locale, they can be very skittish, but in some places they will linger within 30 or 40 yards of a canoe. They will call and respond to a person in the boat.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

dystopian's picture

@boriscleto Love that Inca Tern. What a beauty! Troupial is nice too. I get the odd Harris's Hawk from the yard once in awhile. Have watched their co-operative family group hunting whence 5 of them work a line together to flush stuff. Neat pix!

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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

magiamma's picture

yesterday zipped by

here are a few random photos. Thanks for the OT dystopian.

Great photos everyone! Have a great day...

iris.jpg

clouds.jpg

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Stop Climate Change Silence - Start the Conversation

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dystopian's picture

@magiamma Beautiful Iris photo Magi!

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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

Jen's picture

I've seen more praying mantis this past week than I saw all last year.

Widdle bitty baby

Cleaning my rosemary

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Is it great yet?

dystopian's picture

@Jen great pics of a neat beast jen! They can take a black widow spider, so are pretty fast. Keep lots of pests off the plants... Nice pix!

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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

TheOtherMaven's picture

@dystopian

Not many other critters will, but the mantises aren't fussy. It's meat, they eat it.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

edg's picture

Sun going down over the Mississippi River near New Orleans, LA.

Mississippi River Sunset.jpg

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dystopian's picture

@edg Beautiful photo! Great composition, color, light, wonderful! Thanks!

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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

edg's picture

The Ocean Adventure Marine Park in Gulfport, Mississippi is the public facing portion of an organization that rescues distressed marine animals from the Gulf of Mexico. With the large amount of rain falling on states along the Mississippi River this year, freshwater trails extend 30 miles into the Gulf. That freshwater pollution injures and kills salt water creatures.

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A dolphin that was rescued from the Gulf of Mexico, rehabilited, and trained to engage young people in the fight for marine animals.

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Sting rays.

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The Gulf of Mexico.

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@edg
In Bay St. Louis.
Crabs and Crawfish.
Southern belles.
Gray gulf waters.
Spanish moss.
Lazy drawl.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

(I'm a major bird lover), and, for hosting this Photography OT.

And, thanks to all of the top notch photographers, here, for sharing your work with us.

I've tried to learn to use my cell phone camera, but, with little luck. Every photo I have of our Pup, is blurry. Of course, they're not known to stay still for too long.

Smile

Mollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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dystopian's picture

@Unabashed Liberal Thanks Mollie! And yeah, can you believe all the great photogs here? Very cool. Glad you like birds! They are fascinating, and more than a canary in the coal mine. They are trying to tell us something along those lines, if people would watch and listen to them. I don't have a cellphone with a camera so can't offer help on that front. thanks for the kind words, and visiting!

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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

Unabashed Liberal's picture

@dystopian @dystopian @dystopian

are 'my thing.' Smile I'm always talking about dogs, but, we've also had a 'pet' bird for the last forty plus years (two different birds, that is). And, we have feeding areas for our backyard birds which I fiercely protect--including, wielding a rake to chase off feral cats, when needed. (I don't try to hurt them, of course, just scare them away.)

Since I'm a non-photographer, I particularly enjoy all the excellent work you Guys share with us on Fridays. Actually, this is one of my favorite OT's--so, thanks for jumping in yesterday, and carrying on. I'm sure Janis and BR appreciate it, as well.

[Edited: 'wielding' not 'yielding' Phew! Smile ]

Pleasantry

Mollie

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@dystopian

your lovely Photography Thread. Sorry 2

Won't happen, again.

Pleasantry

Mollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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