the Durham Mueller investigations of the spooks expand further

Happy Halloween to all…a day for Spooks to have a bit of fun at our expense; so how fitting a report this is today. Part I was here (Cafe version, C99% version).  I know many of you know an order of magnitude more than I do about all this,  but this issue is of prime importance to what remains of the shreds of Democracy in Amerika to me.

‘Justice Dept. investigation of Russia probe is criminal in nature, person familiar with case says’, WaPo, October 24, 2019, Matt Zapotosky

“The federal prosecutor tapped by Attorney General William P. Barr to examine the origins of the FBI’s probe of President Trump’s 2016 campaign is conducting an investigation officials consider criminal in nature, according to a person familiar with the matter.

Barr tapped Connecticut U.S. Attorney John Durham in May to review the FBI’s investigation, looking specifically at whether the U.S. government’s “intelligence collection activities” in the probe of possible coordination between Trump’s campaign and Russia were “lawful and appropriate,” a person familiar with the matter said then. Durham’s appointment came amid calls from Trump and his allies to investigate the FBI personnel and those in special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s office involved with the probe of Trump’s campaign. At the time, the Justice Department inspector general was conducting a similar probe.

The significance of officials deeming Durham’s probe “criminal” is difficult to determine by itself. Durham’s appointment was noteworthy because he, unlike the inspector general, is a federal prosecutor with the ability to convene a grand jury that could compel witnesses to testify or charge people with crimes if Durham felt that was necessary.

It was not immediately clear whether officials’ consideration of his work as criminal represented a shift in the seriousness of his investigation or whether a grand jury had been convened. People familiar with the probe declined to say when precisely officials gave it that designation, what specific crimes or people Durham was homing in on, or what evidence he has found. They, like others in this story, spoke on the condition of anonymity to talk about an ongoing investigation.

Federal law enforcement generally needs some indication a crime has occurred to open a criminal investigation — though the standard for doing so is low, and the decision is not reviewed by a court.

Spokespeople for the FBI and Justice Department declined to comment.

Trump’s allies noted that the designation of Durham’s probe as criminal — first reported Thursday night by the New York Times — was a possible indication the well-respected federal prosecutor has found evidence of wrongdoing.”

On Oct. 3, 2019, Tim Harris at realcearlpolitics.com had reported that ‘Brennan Is “Concerned” That He May Be Questioned By DOJ On Origins Of Russia Probe’

“Former CIA Director John Brennan said he is “concerned” that he is “supposedly” going to be interviewed by John Durham, the U.S. attorney leading the Justice Department’s review of the origins of the Russia investigation. Attorney General William Barr has ordered an “investigation into the investigators” that has now spiraled into an impeachment inquiry after it was revealed that the president asked the leader of the Ukraine to cooperate with the investigation.

“Given that Barr is now accompanying Durham on these things, it really makes me think that the hand of politics and of Trump are now being used to massage what this ongoing review quasi-investigation is. So I am concerned,” Brennan said on MSNBC’s “Deadline” with former Bush press secretary Nicole Wallace.’

Via dbdailyupdate.com on Oct. 22, 2019: ‘Durham Will Interview Brennan – Explains This Week’s Deep State Media Push’, David Blackmon

Suddenly, it all becomes clear. – News broke on Tuesday that, consistent with earlier rumors, U.S. Attorney John Durham has formally requested an interview with Obama-era CIA Director John Brennan, and plans to also interview Obama-era Director of National Intelligence James Clapper:

@BreakingNLive   ‘BREAKING: US officials say US attorney John Durham has requested an interview from John Brennan, and plans to request James Clapper also sit down with him as part of his review of the 2016 Russia collusion investigation – OANN

1:58 PM – Oct 22, 2019

“This news explains why the Usual Suspects in the fake news media have been putting on a full court fake news press in their support of their Deep State heroes. As reported previously here, Saturday was the New York Times’ day to do the toadying, Sunday was NBC’s day, and Tuesday was Politico’s day in the shilling well.”

‘DOJ Barr and Durham close in on Brennan, Clapper and Comey (Video)’, Alex Christofororu, October 27, 2019

“The Duran’s Alex Christoforou and Editor-in-Chief Alexander Mercouris discuss the DOJ’s Russiagate probe taking it up a notch, to now be turned into criminal investigation.

Deep State officials John Brennan, James Clapper and James Comey better lawyer up.

Via Zerohedge…

What began as an administrative review by the Justice Department into the origins of Russiagate has “shifted” to a criminal inquiry, according to the New York Times, citing two people familiar with the matter.

The move will allow prosecutor John H Durham the power to subpoena documents and witnesses, to impanel a grand jury, and to file criminal charges. Durham’s progress has been closely monitored by Attorney General William Barr, who appointed the veteran investigator in May, tasking him with looking into FBI and CIA intelligence gathering operations surrounding the 2016 US election.

As the Daily Callers Chuck Ross notes, Barr said on April 10 that he believed “spying” had taken place against the Trump campaign, and that he doesn’t buy former FBI officials’ version of how the collusion investigation began.

Just over three weeks ago, the Times also reported that President Trump asked the Australian Prime Minister to help Barr uncover the origins of “Russiagate,” a move which Justice Department officials said “would be neither illegal nor untoward for Trump to ask.”

And according to NBC News, Durham has set his sights on former CIA Director John Brennan and former national intelligence director James Clapper.

Durham’s investigation has been running parallel to a probe by Justice Department Inspector General (and registered Democrat) Michael Horowitz, who told Congress on Thursday that he expects his report to be “lengthy,” but able to be made mostly available to the public.

The Durham probe is similar to a Justice Department inspector general’s investigation into the FBI’s surveillance of Trump campaign adviser Carter Page. Michael Horowitz, the inspector general, told Congress on Thursday that the report of that investigation is “lengthy” and that he anticipates most of it will be made public.

Horowitz has been investigating whether the FBI misled the foreign surveillance court in spy applications against Page. Investigators relied heavily on the Steele dossier in the applications, though information in that document was largely unverified. Unlike Durham, Horowitz has not had subpoena power, and cannot use a grand jury as part of his investigation.Daily Caller

And of course, with Durham’s administrative review turning into a criminal probe, the Times has already given away the predictable response from the left; Barr is investigating the Obama intelligence community to help Trump win in 2020. Nothing to see here folks, right?

A partial transcript…as it turned out, very partial…)

C: Yes, i’ve been waiting for this as there was a very big clue that Clapper, Comey, and Brennan were busy appointing lawyers, which strongly suggests that they’ve been receiving letters form the Justice Dept. informing them that they’re suspects in a criminal investigation.  Note that very properly there’s been no public declaration to this effect…one of the most outrageous things about the Comey investigation of russia-gate was  claiming to Congress that it was just a counter-espionage operation.

Remember our video a couples weeks ago, C, that Wm. Barr and John Durham had traveled to Rome, met various people there, and had apparently listened to a taped deposition by Joseph Mifsud, this mysterious so-called Maltese professor, who’d played perhaps the central role in russia-gate, getting this young trump aid Papadopoulos set up that supposedly triggers the start of the whole investigation.  Rather than sending any number of other investigators to Rome as they could have, it seems to me that something big and serious is going on.

All the crimes that were committed during the course of russia-gate…were rather crimes by the investigators who were investigating (their targets, essentially).  russia-gate was not only a hoax, but worse than a hoax, persecutions, etc., even those like Paul Manafort, who IMO committed serious crimes, were not prosecuted for those crimes in reality, but were prosecuted as they were caught up in a political investigation.

C: so now we have a criminal investigation, crimes were committed.  Who committed those crimes?  Brennan, James Clapper, Andrew McCabe, James Comey, Rod Rosenstein, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obomba, Loretta Lynch, Susan Rice.  Respond at will.

M: Sure i can add all sorts of people; how about Chistopeher Steele and Glenn Simpson?  (they both chuckle heartily…)   i’ll be very careful not to discuss the level of their criminality as inappropriate, but firstly, we have to get to the bottom of what seems to have been very serious FISA abuse.  we know about the warrants that allowed the surveillance of carter page, lowel-level volunteer to the trump campaign.  improper disclosure of all the information to the FISA court, including concerns about the reliability of the steele’s dossier on trump, nor was the court told of glen simpson’s role, nor that the steele dossier was paid for by the Clinton campaign.

C: who signed those documents?

M: some of those you’ve named: Rosenstein, McCabe, & Comey.  bear in mind that misleading the court is a serious criminal offense.  this explains why FBI IG horowitz’s report is being held back as overlapping Durham’s investigtion.  evidence of others under surveillance…popadopolous?  as well as and the selective use of leaks to undermine the DT campaign and transition team.

The Intelligence community signed off on an extraordinary memo/statement in Oct. 2016 which clearly pointed to election interference, and we know those authors were John Brennan and James Clapper.  We also know that there were leaks of classified information that were useful in the prosecution of Michael Flynn….leakiing of classified info to engineer the removal of an official of the government is even a more srious offense.  Who was involved in that?  US attorney general Sally Yates, John Brennan possibly, the FBI, including Peter Strzock and J. Comey, the greater conspiracy to entrap is at 14:45…At 15:54: then the single most explosive issue: the so-called hack of the DNC server, all the mysterious info of the leaking of the emails…the Big Story around russia-gate.

I’ll leave this rush transcript at 16:14 at the point the DT/Zelesnskiy phone call has Trump asking about the (DNC?) server in Ukraine, suggesting that Barr and Durham may be investigating that as well; I’m way too tired to do any more.

Now as far as Mercouris having said this: Wm. Barr and John Durham had traveled to Rome, met various people there, and had apparently listened to a taped deposition by Joseph Mifsud…

One of the hundred internal links to the CIA Times piece at the WaPo link had it this way:

“Mr. Barr is closely managing the Durham investigation, even traveling to Italy to seek help from officials there to run down an unfounded conspiracy that is at the heart of conservatives’ attacks on the Russia investigation — that the Italian government helped set up the Trump campaign adviser who was told in 2016 that the Russians had damaging information that could hurt Clinton’s campaign.

But Italy’s intelligence services told Mr. Barr that they played no such role in the events leading to the Russia investigation, Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte of Italy said in a news conference on Wednesday. Mr. Barr has also contacted government officials in Britain and Australia about their roles in the early stages of the Russia investigation.”

From the above link to NYT, Oct.23:

Mr. Conte publicly acknowledged for the first time that Mr. Barr had twice met with the leaders of Italy’s intelligence agencies after asking them to clarify their role in a 2016 meeting between a Maltese professor and a Trump campaign adviser on a small college campus in Rome, Link Campus University.”

“During a subsequent meeting, the professor, Joseph Mifsud, told the adviser, George Papadopolous, that Russia had obtained damaging information about Hillary Clinton in the form of “thousands of emails,” according to the special counsel’s report into Russian meddling in the 2016 American election. Mr. Papadopolous later shared that information with foreign diplomats, which eventually set off alarms among American intelligence officials about Russian interference.

Mr. Trump and his associates have asserted, without evidence, that Mr. Mifsud is not a professor with links to Russia, as the special counsel’s report states, but a Western intelligence asset working as part of an Obama administration plot to spy on the Trump campaign. That theory, once relegated to the far-right margins, has become a frequent talking point of Mr. Trump’s as he seeks to undermine the special counsel’s report.”

Quite a denial by Conte via the Italian Intelligence agencies, no?  As well as “according to the SpecialProsecutor‘?  Of course, it’s all been an information war, and we can only hope John Durham helps Bob Mueller grow a spine.

I did grab a hella lot of text from the CIA Slimes piece in the WaPo link, but I started gettin’ seriously in the weeds trying to decide what might be important, what was just background agitprop blather.

(cross-posted from Café Babylon)

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Alligator Ed's picture

Alexander Mercouris is an intelligent, well-read and well-travelled lawyer (barrister? Solicitor?) in the UK. He understands and explains clearly the trail of machinations of the Deep State. As an aside, I nominate Alex Christoforou for honorary alligatorhood because he calls 'em just the way I see 'em.

Several points, which I have gleaned from multiple sources, mostly YouTube videos, is that the criminal investigation has been going on for quite a while but just announced recently for maximum political effect. The effect was produced, as desired by the Trumpistas, to prod Nervous Nancy into pushing for the pseudo-impeachment inquiry. The downfall of the Democratic therein lies.

As far as the server(s) is/are concerned, I believe, with absolutely no documentation, but with great probability, that there are two subject servers in Ukraine, both under the direct control of Trump-hating, Russia-hating Dmitry Alperovich. One of course is the famed DNC server(s) which were never produced to anybody or any party outside of CrowdStrike throughout this entire sham.

The second server(s) would be those which directly belong to Crowd Strike.

We should not forget one of the lessons obtained from the leaks concerning the infamous CIA Vault Seven, in which we learn that the spooks have ways to implant codes during their forays consisting of multiple hacks into servers not their own, to implant "clues" as to the hack's origins. They (Clowns In Amerika) can make it appear that any particular country or source can be made to seem as if they originated the hack.

Bill Binney and Kirk Wiebe, two whistleblowers from 2001, ratted out out the misuse of government programs, which they themselves developed, into weapons of domestic surveillance. The CIA is precluded from domestic spying. Ha! Like that never happens.

Zelensky, being in a tough place, he will cooperate with Trump and Barr/Durham. Z wants to make nice with Russia and also considers a second referendum for the Donbass and Donetsk regions, breakaways from the rest of Ukraine. This one would be to obtain a consensus of war-weary Ukrainians, sick of being dragged through the gore of DS/Soros color revolutions. But that is a matter for perhaps another essay.

The fear of Moloch was instilled into the heart of the DS (assuming that the DS members actually posses such a figurative capacity for empathy) when B/D went to Roma and presumably listened to deposition tapes of Joseph Mifsud testifying to Italian Intelligence about his doings. Mi9fsud lives (if he still lives) in Roma, not far from the Link University School for Spies and the Italian Intelligence services offices. How handy.

No warning of the B/D visit: no leaks. No intermediaries. No "protocol" by which to tip off the DS what they were doing. I would be surprised if B/D did not speak to FBI agents posted overseas as well. Perhaps some people from the State Dept were also queried.

This whole charade is rapidly unravelling, like a partially-knit sweater visited by curious kittens. Action will be taken, if any action at all either of two times (and by action, I mean, retribution:

1. Immediately after the formal collapse of the "impeachment inquiry" or
2. after Trump annihilates the Democrat unfortunate enough to face him in the election.

Fine essay.

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wendy davis's picture

@Alligator Ed

first a Q: did you listen to the rest of the interview, and if so, did mercouris (british news calls him a struck-off barrister now working for putin, et.al. lol) say more about the servers?

As far as the server(s) is/are concerned, I believe, with absolutely no documentation, but with great probability, that there are two subject servers in Ukraine, both under the direct control of Trump-hating, Russia-hating Dmitry Alperovich. One of course is the famed DNC server(s) which were never produced to anybody or any party outside of CrowdStrike throughout this entire sham.

The second server(s) would be those which directly belong to Crowd Strike.

i'll take your understanding to be correct, although i hadn't known (or remembered) about alperovitch. as a side note, i'll add that when i'd bingled to make sure that prosecutor durham''s first name is john, i'd kicked up: US Attorney John Durham looking into Ukrainian involvement in 2016 election, September 25, 2019, washingtonexaminer.com

“A Department of Justice team led by U.S. Attorney John Durham is separately exploring the extent to which a number of countries, including Ukraine, played a role in the counterintelligence investigation directed at the Trump campaign during the 2016 election,” DOJ spokeswoman Kerri Kupec said Wednesday. “While the Attorney General has yet to contact Ukraine in connection with this investigation, certain Ukrainians who are not members of the government have volunteered information to Mr. Durham, which he is evaluating.”

Durham has been Barr's right hand as the two look into the complicated and classified issues surrounding how an investigation into the Trump campaign's alleged ties with Russia — dubbed “Crossfire Hurricane” — got its start, though the U.S. attorney from Connecticut has been virtually silent since his selection.
........................................................
DOJ also made it clear that Trump never told Barr to contact Ukraine about any investigation of Biden, nor did Barr ever discuss these issues with Ukraine or with Trump's attorney, Rudy Giuliani.

Trump gave Barr “ full and complete authority to declassify information” related to the origins of the Trump-Russia probe in May after Barr had infuriated Democrats when he said “spying did occur” on the Trump campaign and refused to backtrack. Republicans have alleged that foreign intelligence agencies, like those in Western Europe, may have played a role in eavesdropping on or otherwise monitoring Trump campaign associates in 2016."

boy howdy, do i remember how wikileaks' publications of the CIA vaults pissed off the spooks, and what they showed was possible as far as creating false bread crumb trails! thank you!

re: 'if misfud still lives'...some commenter on some site or other snarked that he's living with the skripals...dunno if a location had been named, but deep dark badger holes would work for me. otherwise: russia?

can't say i wasn't epically disappointed to hear eva barlett's report on the horrors still going on in rovorussia post-zelensky 'deal', but maybe he can't control his nazis any more than yats could.

ha: the great news is that the house passed the resolution to authorize the impeachment inquiry, and the guardian said there are even provisions that it all might be televized! i sure do hope so, and immediately afterward came this glorious tweet:

thank you so much for the pithy and wide-ranging comment, sir gator.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@wendy davis I do watch the Duran to the end of most broadcasts. The dual server idea is ascribable to them but also other sources. I do check out multiple sources, some of which many here might regard with disdain, but hey, that's how the bone marrow crunches. Pure, unalloyed truth in media is myth which must be quashed. It has never been so. Is not so. Never will be so.

This Ukraine-gate just got worse for Vindman and pals. He is a serving military officer even if unattached to direct military posting. Despite being in a putative "civilian" assignment, he is still bound by the Code of Military Justice. This makes him liable for court martial. Will such come about? The answer to depends upon whether the wrath of Q is reified or only trash talk.

My reptilian nature leads me to deep skepticism about the likelihood of true punishment being meted out. The better angel of my nature, generally estranged from my writings, encourages me to believe in truth, justice and blah, blah, blah. It is my fervent hope, untrammeled with concerns for niceties, that the bastards all swing for what they have done. Medusa's rope necklace should be painted red for Harlot.

Amongst those walking to the gallows may be Ciamarella, the WH spook hold-over from Obomba. Snitching out the Pres to Schiffty means breaking security regulations--that's a crime. Seeking to assist in a plot to overthrow the Presidential by spreading lies is another crime, often called sedition. Some may call it treason. I do. I want to see the whole lot of them swing. The certainty is that there won't all get what they deserve. Obomba will die before his portrait is removed from the WH and consigned to the bonfire. But he is a traitor who, along with H. Rodent Clinton, invented, developed, nourished and encourage ISIS. They didn't obtain the desired blood-thirstiness from AQ so got Al-Baghdadi out of an Iraqi jail.

But we know this. Sorry but I ranted and did not directly respond to your comment. There is only one way to cure a cancer: EXCISE IT ENTIRELY. No remnant of the plotters must be allowed to persist. Should harsh penalties not be imposed soon, this sad story will be the Overture to the destruction of Amerika, both the idealized and actual current governance of the U.S. Democrats (not all, certainly) are definitely hell-bent on dragging us into a lawless Hell whereby rules are made for the moment, to be discarded when the situation changes.

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wendy davis's picture

@Alligator Ed

i need to beg off until tomorrow, as i can scarcely read thru mine bleary eyes. for now, it's time to shut this machine down.

sweet dreams to you, sir gator, and to all of us. dig who's in the band and back-up singers.

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@Alligator Ed As a response to your post.

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@Alligator Ed
Will MSNBC and the WaPo report it? Not on your life!

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wendy davis's picture

@Alligator Ed

any number of you know (and remember) ten times, a hundred times more than i do about all of this. for instance, i had no idea who 'Ciamarella' even is. so i bingled this a.m. and found this straightaway:

'Pinnacle of irresponsibility': Attorneys decline to confirm CIA officer Eric Ciaramella is whistleblower’, Steven Nelson, October 30, 2019, washingtonexaminer.com

“Having initially begun the headline on its article "'Whistleblower' Exposed," RealClearInvestigations changed this to "How 'Whistleblower' May Be Outed" some two hours after first publication.

Foes of the whistleblower, a career CIA analyst formerly detailed to the White House National Security Council, say that only the Intelligence Community inspector general is legally bound to maintain the person's confidentiality. The inspector general received an Aug. 12 complaint from the whistleblower, ultimately leading to the public revelation that Trump requested Ukraine’s president to investigate Democrats.

Ciaramella was Ukraine director on the NSC during the end of the Obama administration and remained there during the early months of the Trump administration, when he was briefly acting senior director for European and Russian affairs before the arrival of Fiona Hill. Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, the current Ukraine director on the NSC, testified in a secret hearing held by the House Intelligence Committee on Tuesday.

albeit i checked, and the title seems to be now: The Beltway's 'Whistleblower' Furor Obsesses Over One Name

now as far as the timing of the wapo and NY-CIA times peices, both mr. wd and i had read the wapo piece as glorious news for Dems at bezos's rag, as in: they were quoting anonymous insiders calling the D & M Spooks Investigation itself 'criminal'. reading further it became even more confusing whether they were or weren't, which is why i'd tried to find anything in the nine-yards-long NYT 'exposé, to either corroborate or define it, and failed. i'd hoped to swap out some paragraphs for others, in any event, and forgot once i was exhausted by transcribing the duran interview even that far.

i reckon i should have bit the bullet and finished listening to mercouris, but it would have been the usual agony for me.

but i will say that it would be highly unusual, if not unprecedented in modern history, for any of these seditious miscreants to pay even with much prison time, let alone their lives.
i agree about 'sources', but only following the papers of record, MSNDC and emptywheel on these issues is an extremely dangerous form of willful ignorance, imo. how weird to recognize the many evils of DT's policies, and find it necessary to defend him on this and some of his FP decisions (even as they vacillate rather wildly by Tweet).

please don't apologize, gator; seems like i'm still way behind the curve and need some educatin'. ; )

and all this criminality, and who the fuck is dying in belmarsh gitmo? the publisher of truth, dear julian assange. of course DT could end that in a milwaukee minute, couldn't he?

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Snippets plus a link suffice. It may even be illegal (copyright infringement)

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wendy davis's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

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wendy davis's picture

october 30 Who Is Supposed To Define U.S. Foreign Policy - Hint: It Is Not The Borg

Back to the NYT 'debunking'. The second part is about Trump allegations connecting the cybersecurity company CrowdStrike to the Ukraine. The NYT is correct to say that Trump's claims in that direction are mostly confused or false. But it also makes this claim:

CrowdStrike, based in California, is not Ukrainian-owned and does not appear to have any Ukrainian connections.

CrowdStrike’s co-founder Dmitri Alperovitch issued a report about a Ukrainian software for artillery targeting. The report falsely claimed that the software was hacked by Russia and that Russia used the coordinates the hacked software allegedly transmitted.

Those CrowdStrike allegations were completely false:

In December, CrowdStrike said it found evidence that Russians hacked into a Ukrainian artillery app, contributing to heavy losses of howitzers in Ukraine's war with pro-Russian separatists.

VOA reported Tuesday that the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS), which publishes an annual reference estimating the strength of world armed forces, disavowed the CrowdStrike report and said it had never been contacted by the company.

Ukraine's Ministry of Defense also has stated that the combat losses and hacking never happened.

CrowdStrike was first to link hacks of Democratic Party computers to Russian actors last year, but some cybersecurity experts have questioned its evidence.

The debunked CrowdStrike report about the Ukraine demonstrated that the company can not be trusted when it alleges Russian hacking - be it of an Ukrainian artillery app or of the DNC servers.

Lt.Col. Vindman did not like those policies. He in fact believes that U.S. foreign policy should not be directed by the president.

In his written opening remarks to yesterday's confidential hearing, widely spread to the media, he asserts:

In spite of being under assault from Russia for more than five years, Ukraine has taken major steps towards integrating with the West. The U.S. government policy community's view is that the election of President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and the promise of reforms to eliminate corruption will lock in Ukraine's Western-leaning trajectory, and allow Ukraine to realize its dream of a vibrant democracy and economic prosperity.

Given this perspective and my commitment to advancing our government's strategic interests, I will now recount several events that occurred.
...
When I joined the NSC in July 2018, I began implementing the administration's policy on Ukraine. In the Spring of 2019, I became aware of outside influencers promoting a false narrative of Ukraine inconsistent with the consensus views of the interagency. This narrative was harmful to U.S. government policy. While my interagency colleagues and I were becoming increasingly optimistic on Ukraine's prospects, this alternative narrative undermined U.S. government efforts to expand cooperation with Ukraine.

Who the f**k does this NSC minion thinks he is? The President of the United States?

you rock, bernhard!

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Is to get immunity for Biden, his son and all those involved in the Deep State in the attempted coup. I have no idea what the details are, but it is clear that immunity for these Democrats and neocons is the goal.

They get this inquiry passed by a 52% to 48% vote in a Democratic house but need a 2/3 majority in the senate where the Republicans control. So a vote for guilt is not going to happen.

It now becomes a major issue of the election and Trump will beat the Democratic challenger over the head with this. So Joe Biden's guilt will be the main feature of the election. If Biden isn't the candidate, then Trump will try him in absentia and whoever the Democratic candidate is will have to defend Biden's conduct. If it turns out to be Biden, his dementia will be obvious and Trump will not have to attack him much. But Biden will be the albatross hung around the neck of any other Democratic candidate.

Oh, and let's not forget that whoever the Green Candidate is and the Libertarian Candidate is, they will both pile on Biden and the neocons.

The Democrats are the party of dumb.

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@davidgmillsatty
Sadly, you can to Bernie.

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wendy davis's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

now i may be reading this incorrectly, but with this from DMG:

If it turns out to be Biden, his dementia will be obvious and Trump will not have to attack him much. But Biden will be the albatross hung around the neck of any other Democratic candidate.

as in: whoever wins the primary and runs as the D candidate. but if you believe ms. gabbard will eventually be the D candidate, does it change your comment?

you'd added: "sadly, you can to bernie." will you explain?

ms. gabbard voted to move the impeachment inquiry forward.

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@wendy davis

Wear it.

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wendy davis's picture

@davidgmillsatty

wish i knew what you mean...

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@wendy davis Sorry. I was just saying that Tulsi has decided with her vote to start impeachment proceedings she can no longer claim neutrality on this. And the impeachment albatross will be hung around her neck as well should she manage to rise in the polls.

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wendy davis's picture

@davidgmillsatty

you had meant even current candidates, not the eventual nominee...and i hadn't known she'd been claiming neutrality. and yes, as we know, the very narrow grounds for impeachment nancy pelosi's chosen are:

The resolution provides the procedural details for how the House will move its impeachment inquiry into its next phase as it investigates a whistleblower complaint alleging that the President attempted to pressure Ukraine to interfere in the 2020 presidential election by investigating the family of his potential political rival, former Vice President Joe Biden.

zo...if you fall for that one, or pretend to...you'll fall for anything that suits the anti-trump #McResistance, imo. thanks for explaining both, amigo.

and a good all souls day to all!

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@wendy davis
as cited on this blog somewhere.

And
Voting for the inquiry is not the same as voting for impeachment. By all means lets inquire and , as also reported on this blog, let's inquire as to the motives and allegiances of this CIA soi-disant "whistleblower".

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wendy davis's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

got this straight.

"You can't tie that Albatross to Tulsi. Sadly, you can to Bernie."

and it appears that you're right about bernie.

Bernie Sanders backed impeachment before House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s announcement that a formal impeachment inquiry would begin on President Donald Trump. Sanders called Trump “the most corrupt president in the modern history of this country” in a speech.

but of course this is all about ukraine-gate and the phone call with zelenskiy, so:

you called that 'sad', but now say: 'sure let's investigate!' as though the motives will be exposed behind closed doors, and according to the houston chronicle:

"The rules lay out how the House Intelligence Committee — now leading the investigation by deposing diplomats and other officials behind closed doors — would transition to public hearings.

That panel would issue a report and release transcripts of the closed-door interviews it has been conducting.

The Judiciary Committee would then decide whether to recommend that the House impeach Trump.

Republicans could only issue subpoenas for witnesses to appear if the committees holding the hearings approve them — in effect giving Democrats veto power.

Attorneys for Trump could participate in the Judiciary Committee proceedings. But in a bid for leverage, panel Chairman Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., would be allowed to deny "specific requests" by Trump representatives if the White House continued refusing to provide documents or witnesses sought by Democratic investigators."

a usually very bright commenter on MoA's thread about the utter depravity of ukraine-gate as the new russia-gate said 'bernie and tulsi need to start their own party'; i showed him miz gabbard's vote for the very narrow grounds of impeachment. he said:
"she had to vote for it, because trump pulled troops out of syria!' (or close to that.)

but that's the thing about True Believers to me: creating justifications outta thin air. i do ♥ the theme that says: 'he/she has to vote that way to keep his/her powder dry in order to get the nomination!!!' humbug.

#VerisimilitudeIsWhatMatters

impeach DT on war crimes, caging children at the border? ar by other means: killing economic sanctions, no, because then the D team's presidents and cabinet members, & Spooks, might go to the hague.

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@wendy davis
Are you defending Bernie, attacking Tulsi, attacking both or defending both or just arguing for fun?
I expressed regret that Bernie jumped on Russiagate and said that Tulsi had not. Suddenly the thread became Ukrainegate and impeachment.

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wendy davis's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

this thread began with with @ davidmillsgatty's comment here which began with 'the bottom line of impeachment' (on edit: also known as ukraine-gate).

then your 'albatross' comments, and tulsi's vote on same, plus the bern's response by tweet (the trump/zelenskiy, PM/Prez? of ukraine, call) i'd given, plus what the bill actually said, according to the chronicle. ya follow?

both gabbard and sanders (by his tweet) have signaled they believe DT should be impeached for that phone call.

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@wendy davis
And should be calling for the arrest of Obama if they really beleive that.

I think he should be impeached but not for asking another head of state for help in a criminal investigation and making aid contingent on that.
Obama backed Biden withholding aide on condition of STOPPING the crim9inal investigayion of his son. That is a personal quid pro quo.

Trump should be impeached for misappropriation of funds for his Wall.

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wendy davis's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

to this, and file under: wd slow-brain: i'd only come back to say that with this:

By all means lets inquire and , as also reported on this blog, let's inquire as to the motives and allegiances of this CIA soi-disant "whistleblower".

you'd fucking known that this was all about the ukraine-gate, and NOT russia-gate. so i'll ask you: do you just like to argue (as any old shit-pot-stirrer is wont to do)?

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@wendy davis
I just made one original short comment.
And I don't like to say this but this is getting very dkos-like.
So have your last word and I won't respond.

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snoopydawg's picture

@wendy davis

Gabbard called out Trump for his continuing criminal actions in Syria which constitute a High Crime and impeachable offense. Furthermore, the orders given were all illegal orders as they're against international and US Law and should've been refused by every soldier issued them as it's their duty to do so. Unfortunately, Gabbard didn't make that very important point.

If it's the correct comment. There is some discussion on the aumf and it being enough cover for Trump's staying in Syria. lol though. Just saw a tweet about the troops being used as thieves cuz they're stealing Syria's oil.

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

wendy davis's picture

@snoopydawg

the commenter on b's thread? if so, no, that's not it. this was about ukraine-gate, the one i'd clipped portions from, iirc. his was about ten words long; i'd almost answered 'read the bill; it's about ukrine-gate', but i let it go instead.

but there are plenty of diaries afoot on the US stealing syria's oil, although with different recipients mentioned.

but that really doesn't clear up my chich with 'voice in the wilderness', if that's what you might have been trying to accomplish. god's teeth, i hope he/she just can be gone from this thread forever.

gotta close down for now; i'm zonked. pleasant dreams if you can...

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wendy davis's picture

@davidgmillsatty

as for the Green candidate: 'The 2020 Green National Convention is an event in which delegates of the Green Party of the United States will choose its nominees for President and Vice President in the 2020 U.S. presidential election. The convention is scheduled to be held from July 9–12, 2020 at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan.' (wikipedia)

there are six or seven seeking the nomination (iirc), but i'd have to think howie hawkins will be chosen (he started the green party in the US). his socialist platform is great, but sadly, at least to me, he's really running on his Green New Deal.

libertarians? the wiki.

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wendy davis's picture

‘Thank God for Deep State’, ex-CIA boss says. Still think it’s a conspiracy theory?
1 Nov, 2019, RT.com

the three emblematic tweets:

gawd directs the spooks!

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@wendy davis @wendy davis

Where have I heard that before?

Sanctimonious shits. They know better than everyone else. The righteous ones.

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wendy davis's picture

@davidgmillsatty

hyuk.hyuk.hyuk.

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@wendy davis No I think that was Ben Bernanke.

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wendy davis's picture

@davidgmillsatty

bernank, too, but RT had a thing up about clinton;s similar claim. and you know we can take that one to the...ben bernank!

on edit: i checked, and the remark about hellary was according to political operative dick morris, so who knows? sounds a lot like her, is all i can say.

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