Dredging [does] [doesn’t] hurt fish.

Think of this as a pop quiz:

If you fail you will not get your degree ... ever.

Which statement is correct?

Dredging [does] [doesn’t] hurt fish.

For extra credit: Explain the obvious errors for the "losing" side of the argument.

          Hint: This is an example wherein non-scientists and other non-cognoscenti insist observations are more important than theoretical considerations in the sciences. That data not theories define our understanding of the world.

31 May 2017: Article (first paragraph only) Permanent suction-dredge ban heads to governor

          Suction dredge mining will be permanently banned from Western Oregon’s wild salmon habitat under a bill that passed the Oregon House today, awaiting only Gov. Kate Brown’s pledged signature to create stream protection once championed by the late Democratic Sen. Alan Bates.

6 June 2017: Letter to the Editor (Full text)

Dredging doesn’t hurt fish

          It’s amazing to me that people ban things and don’t know a darn thing about what they are banning.

          Years ago I was down on the Klamath River with a small dredge and didn’t notice any fish around when I started dredging. In a stream, the dredge is downstream from you, due to the current. I had been dredging for a few minutes, when a rock clogged my intake and I stopped to clear it out and that’s when I noticed around 200 fish at the end of my dredge eating things that the dredge was discharging.

          That is when I realized that the bed of the river had kind of a hard crust on top and I had taken a small tool and broken through the crust to start my dredging and this crust was stopping the fish from getting at what was under the crust. So no one can tell me that dredging is hurting the fish, as they don’t know what they are talking about.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

Some questions arise from the newspaper letter you cite. What was the writer dredging for? How deep was he dredging and for how long and how far along the streambed? Obviously, the dredging was fairly mild, as the fish were still able to breathe while eating the yummies that the dredge dragged up.

The proposed ban, on the other hand, is on dredge mining, which usually dredges much deeper than is apparently being done in the writer's case. Mining dredging often puts enough debris in the water to kill fish for miles downstream, both in amount and chemistry. You're not going to have little fishies eating little yummies brought up by a typical commercial mine dredge. The fish are going to be fleeing the effluent cloud as fast as they can swim. The disrupted debris will strangle them otherwise.

I smell a strong odor of "apples versus oranges" here.

And I am familiar with hydraulic dredge mining. You DO. NOT. want to be in the river downstream from such an operation, be you a fish or a human. And a gold pan is one thing; a gold dredge-and-sluice is entirely another.

When scientists request a dredge-mining ban on a given stream or river, chances are they are better informed than someone opposing the ban with nothing else besides personal anecdotes. We ought to listen to them. And to those in places like the Animas River drainage, where mining pollution has rendered the river nearly devoid of fish:

The Gold King Mine was abandoned in 1923, Prior to the spill, the Upper Animas water basin had already become devoid of fish, because of the adverse environmental impacts of regional mines such as Gold King, when contaminants entered the water system. Other plant and animal species were also adversely affected in the watershed before the Gold King Mine breach.

source

Mining's track record with fish isn't all that hot. And we know that from amassed data, not just an occasional anecdote. Sad

Bad

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"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

PriceRip's picture

@thanatokephaloides

          Many of the streams (rivers) of NorthEastern Oregon were mined as part of the California Gold Rush.

          Some day, I hope, those will get the protection this legislation specifies for the rivers of SouthWestern Oregon. But first we will need to remove a few dams in the Columbia River watershed. That will be a bit of a fight. My dad often spoke of Celilo Falls (aka Wyam), I was too young, I never got to see Celilo Falls. The earlier dredging and the later damming are killing my river.

          I, along with some others, have divested from Bonneville Power Administration's generators in favor of Wind and Solar as energy sources.

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dystopian's picture

As a professional fish monger I must comment... Smile

When I siphon the shiat out of the gravel in the bottom of the aquarium lots of potential food items are presented and of course the fish take advantage of that. It doesn't mean that cleaning the gravel is bad. But if the siphoning/dredging was for instance where the salmon eggs fell into the gravel, it could not be so good. Silted areas can also go anoxic quickly. Not to mention chemical pollutants being introduced from mining ops. When I am at water and want to see which species of fish are present, I stir a little substrate up. For some reason we have treated our water resources as a sewers. I hear some salmon are really in trouble.

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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

PriceRip's picture

@dystopian

          Yep, and hatcheries are a poor response to our incessant meddling. Fish ladders have never been as good as the "engineering" would suggest.

          The truth is, a well regulated river is like a well regulated heart beat ··· an indicator of imminent death.

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PriceRip's picture

          The stress on the rivers and streams of the Pacific NorthWest and the harm to the Salmon, Trout, and Steelhead (a trout variant) are caused by us. And just like anthropomorphic climate change we can do something about the problems we have caused.

          We just have to stop the greedy bastards that won't listen and get to work reversing the damage. We could create several thousand, very high quality, jobs with one project alone: Repair the damage to the Columbia River and its tributaries. We could also install a much better system to extract "excess" water from streams. But none of this will ever happen as long as we only demand short term return on investments.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@PriceRip

The stress on the rivers and streams of the Pacific NorthWest and the harm to the Salmon, Trout, and Steelhead (a trout variant) are caused by us.

Anyone who has seen the Animas River in its natural state (or close to it) and then witnessing it running Trump Orange (!) due to mine spillage knows better than to question that.

Fish ladders have never been as good as the "engineering" would suggest.

Fish ladders would work as advertised if they weren't an engineering afterthought, as nearly all of them are. Correcting the design of more than half the ones we now have would do the fish a world of good. But like most American engineering, the profit dollar comes first and quality a distant second. Bad

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

PriceRip's picture

@thanatokephaloides

          My dad had a contract to salvage some materials from a house in Umatilla. The John Day Dam would be completed in a few years and it would create slack water to the foot of McNary Dam. I have never forgotten the the look of that incredible house or the deep dread its imminent demise invoked in me. Over the years I have replayed that summer scene over and over.

          I have spent much time traveling the length of the river from below Bonneville Dam to upstream of McNary Dam. Slowly I worked out a design that would accommodate the barge traffic along this reach as well as restore the Columbia to its former "wild and scenic" state.

          I know the vision I have will never be built, but I still dream of what is would be like to see the Columbia run free to the sea. Couple that with restoring the Snake at least up to "The River of No Return" and we would have the most awesome river system in the world and everyone would finally understand why the Salmon River is named the Salmon River.

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LeChienHarry's picture

@PriceRip the Columbia system and the coastline from northern California to the northern tip of Vancouver Island.

The fish passages (or lack thereof) have bothered me forever. I have always wondered what a better system for the river would look like.

If we had the will, it could be done, I just know it. The Columbia and its tributaries is a marvelous system, and a wonderful ecology, a true treasure.

When I started fishing in 1975, we had runs almost year around: some fish were seven year return. Those runs are gone. Fishing a hogline in Spring on the Willamette and watching Herons building nests in Cottonwood is one of my fond memories.

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